T1B

Hall of Fame - Y or N?

- Two time league MVP
- Super Bowl Champion
- Super Bowl MVP
- 4 time pro bowler
- 2 times first team all-pro
- 93.7 career passer rating
- 9-4 record as a starter in playoff games

His career was a bit short and he had a few "nothing" years, but a case can be made for him to make the Hall.


What do you think?

yes

I thought Warner was washed up when he left the Rams. I knew he hurt his hand, and thought he was all but done. At that time his passes were more flutterball than anything else, in both his last year with the rams, and in his time as a NYG. He definitely got it back together in Az, his passes became crisp again, and he had the accuracy back. Accuracy that is right up there with Joe Montana. His passes were more often than not, caught in stride, perfectly. Sure he had great receivers in Stl & AZ, but there is no doubt those WRs and teams played better when he was behind center.

I'd say yes, Kurt Warner is a HOFer, something I wouldn't have said before his time as a Cardinal.

poptart wrote:Hall of Fame - Y or N?

- Two time league MVP
- Super Bowl Champion
- Super Bowl MVP
- 4 time pro bowler
- 2 times first team all-pro
- 93.7 career passer rating
- 9-4 record as a starter in playoff games

His career was a bit short and he had a few "nothing" years, but a case can be made for him to make the Hall.


What do you think?

Pops you forgot:

- The Top 3 highest passing yardage games in Super Bowl history
- Led TWO shit franchises to the Super Bowl

His AZ career validates him as a 1st ballot HoFer.

Best rags-to-riches story in NFL history. PERIOD.

RACK Kurt Warner

HOF, yes.

First ballot, no.

All in support of Warner, so far.

Warner started just 116 games.
To date, there is no QB in the Hall (in the modern era) who started such a scant number of games, even though some of them were playing 14 game seasons.

There is really nobody close to that low level of number of games started.
Joe Namath is the closest, with 130 games started, and I honestly think a case can be made that he doesn't belong in the Hall.

Goober McTuber wrote:HOF, yes.

First ballot, no.

That whole "first ballot" thing is a fucking joke. Either the guy is a Hall of Famer or not. How does another year change that?

Warner is in and it shouldn't even be close.

He only played six seasons in which he attempted over 350 passes.

The first three years Warner was a starter (Faulk, Bruce, Holt, etc.) he was 35-8.

After that, he went just 31-42.

poptart wrote:Joe Namath is the closest, with 130 games started, and I honestly think a case can be made that he doesn't belong in the Hall.

Gee. Ya think? .500 record as a starter. Led the league in INT four times. Won 25 games in 8 seasons after winning the SB. Read that again and digest it. 25 wins. 8 seasons. Had 50 more INTs than TDs. Career QB rating of 65.

They lowered the bar for this loser big-time.

ucantdoitdoggieSTyle2 wrote:Gee. Ya think? .500 record as a starter. Led the league in INT four times. Won 25 games in 8 seasons after winning the SB. Read that again and digest it. 25 wins. 8 seasons. Had 50 more INTs than TDs. Career QB rating of 65.

They lowered the bar for this loser big-time.

The line on Joe Willie is simple. He guaranteed a win in Super Bowl III and became an American icon when the Jets won the game. Plus he was on the Brady Bunch.

As for Warner, he has the 5th highest QB rating of all time. And Poptart is so full of hate it is hysterical.

Pop, stats aside, I would have thought you'd be in Warner's corner simply b/c he's a Christer, like yourself.

I've not said that I think Warner should be IN or OUT.

The knee-jerk reaction fans typically have at the time of a player's retirement is to overvalue him.

I'm just presenting some reasons why voters might say no to him.


I DO think he'll be voted in, though.

BSmack wrote:He guaranteed a win in Super Bowl III.

It's too bad Trent Dilfer didn't guarantee a victory before his Super Bowl. He might be HOF worthy...

Mvscal, Warner is no Jim Brown, who was arguably THE most dominant running back of all-time.
And Gale Sayers probably shouldn't be in the Hall.

If we're putting Warner in, what about Ken Anderson?

Like Warner, he was a 4 time pro-bowler.
He was a league MVP.
He took the Bungles to a Super Bowl.
Arguably the best passer of his era.
Passed for as many yds as Warner, and in an era FAR less passer friendly.
Won 25 more games than Warner as a starting QB.

Anderson never had M. Faulk, I. Bruce, T. Holt, A. Boldin, L. Fitzgerald ...

He had slop.


... oh, and C. Collinsworth.

ucantdoitdoggieSTyle2 wrote:

BSmack wrote:He guaranteed a win in Super Bowl III.

It's too bad Trent Dilfer didn't guarantee a victory before his Super Bowl. He might be HOF worthy...

Was Dilfer the first QB to throw for 4000 yards in a season?

The first year Warner won the MVP (1999) a guy on his own team (Faulk) broke the single season yds from scrimmage record - 2,429 yds.

Faulk without Warner in '99 still gets off - as he did the previous year, without Warner, when he went for damn near as many yds from scrimmage as in the record setting year - 2,227.

But Warner without Faulk doesn't come close to putting up the numbers he did in '99.

Faulk was jobbed out of the '99 MVP Award because it went to Warner, the Cinderella story.

Know THAT.


Look at some of the guys who have won MVP awards.

Brian Sipe
Roman Gabriel
Mark Moseley
Bert Jones
Rich Gannon
Larry Brown


Look, Warner had THREE outstanding seasons.
He had three more that were pretty good.
And he had about six seasons that were pretty much dogshit.

The years he really lit things up he was surrounded by greatness.


I'm not dogging him, but I'm saying if you want to put him in, you're doing so on a slim track record of excellence.

Six players have won the AP's NFL MVP Award two-or-more times.

Manning (4) and Favre (3) are not IN the Hall yet, but they are locks.

Steve Young (2)
Joe Montana (2)
Johnny Unitas (2)
Jim Brown (2)

All are IN.

I believe Warner will be IN, too.


Look at those six players, though, and admit that Warner isn't in that realm.

And while you're at it, also admit that M. Faulk should have been MVP, instead of grocery boy Warner, in 1999.

Warner threw 41 TDs in 99....and literally came out of NOWHERE to do so.

Yeah, Marshall Faulk had a great year in 99 as well, but he simply didn't torch the league like Warner did.

Besides, Faulk put up BETTER numbers in 2000 and got his MVP then.

poptart wrote:The years he really lit things up he was surrounded by greatness.

So was Joe Montana, Jim Brown, Steve Young and Johnny Unitas.

Do you seriously think Young gets 2 MVPs without Jerry Rice? Or Montana for that matter? Does Johnny Unitas become the prototypical QB without Raymond Berry? Of those 4, the only one who possibly would have dominated on any team of his era might have been Jim Brown, because he was so far and away a superior athlete to almost everybody he played against.

poptart wrote:I'm not dogging him, but I'm saying if you want to put him in, you're doing so on a slim track record of excellence.

That "slim track record of excellence" has Warner tied with Manning and Montana for most 300 yard passing games in the post season. And his 52 total regular season 300 yard games puts him ahead of Moon, Fouts and Montana and behind only Marino, Favre and Manning.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_30 ... arterbacks

Paul wrote:Yeah, Marshall Faulk had a great year in 99 as well, but he simply didn't torch the league like Warner did.

LOL

He only set the single season yds from scrimmage record.


Warner's yds passing number that year is the 35th best, surpassed by ...

Mark Brunell
Lynn Dickey
Drew Bledsoe
Neil Lomax
etc..

haha


Face up to it.

The grocery boy had an outstanding season in '99, but he got the award over his teammate, who BROKE THE SINGLE SEASON YDS FROM SCRIMMAGE RECORD because it was a feel-good story.

It is what it is.

Why would this even be discussed? Warner is a lock for the HOF, as he should be. End thread.

mvscal wrote:

poptart wrote:Look at those six players, though, and admit that Warner isn't in that realm.

Actually, I think he's in good company and a worthy addition to that list.

Then you're an idiot.

Warner went 5 seasons (2002-2006 - Stl, NYG, AZ) where he put up a 8-23 record as a starter.
He sucked.
His appearances, stats and performance was spotty at best.

Then from 2007-2009 he had a "resurgence" and was ...

2007 - 10th in the league in passing yds and 10th in the league in QB rating - wow
2008 - 2nd in passing yds and 3rd in rating - very good
2009 - 11th in passing yds and 10th in rating - wow again

Johnny Unitas, Jim Brown, Brett Favre, Steve Young, Peyton Manning, and Joe Montana all showed CONTINUED excellence.
The only guy on that six player list who's record is anything at all spotty is S. Young, and that is because he was stuck behind Joe Montana for a number of seasons.

Warner isn't in the class of those six players, sorry.

poptart wrote: The only guy on that six player list who's record is anything at all spotty is S. Young, and that is because he was stuck (on a god-awful Bucs team) for a number of seasons.

Fixed

Yes

poptart wrote: Warner went 5 seasons (2002-2006 - Stl, NYG, AZ) where he put up a 8-23 record as a starter.
He sucked.
His appearances, stats and performance was spotty at best.

I would say that is a valid point. I remember that period of his career. For most of that 5 year period he had that the hand injury, or was backing up the Giants new franchise QB. Warner broke his hand numerous times, and it never quite healed up right until after he rode the pine a couple of years backing up Eli and Leinart. To me its obvious the injury was a major factor because of the way he was able to pass the ball as a Cardinal (accurate tight spirals). Something he couldn't do at the end of his career in St Louis, or in NY. His first year as a Cardinal? Well, they were the Cardinals. So I look at that period in his career more as a guy coming off injury, and less that he couldn't play because of suckage.

The Giants were 6-4, fighting for the playoffs when Eli took over and led them straight to a losing record.

Manning is 9-9 for his career in the playoffs. Warner 10-5 (who deserves to be in who's company?)

Nice thread and all as Tart got some conversation going at his own expense. Props, I guess, but seriously. No-brainer. To further what someone earlier in the thread wrote, I personally can't remember another QB so accurate at hitting receivers in stride anywhere on the field. I realize that is subjective but it is still the type of thing people will remember.

My biases on this particular player are well documented for over a decade so I can easily be attacked as having blinders on so I will suffice to say this. The strawberry-topped messican almost never thinks anyone is Hall-worthy. Ever. Ya gotta at least consider THAT.