Page 1 of 1

RACK the gun nuts

Posted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 8:30 pm
by Mikey
for protecting their neighborhood.

The tragedy here is that they didn't both get off a kill shot.
Shooting unsettles Utah neighborhood
In the Salt Lake City suburb of Bluffdale, two neighbors on the lookout for troublemakers find themselves in a standoff, with guns. Now one is paralyzed and the other is facing trial.
By Nicholas Riccardi

March 20, 2010

Reporting from Bluffdale, Utah

Before the shooting, David Serbeck and Reginald Campos were pillars of their community, living at opposite ends of an unfinished development here at the edge of Salt Lake City's sprawl.

Serbeck, a genial 37-year-old father of two and former Army sniper, welcomed new arrivals to the neighborhood by offering to help install their sprinkler systems or work on their yards.

Campos, a 43-year-old CPA and father of four, tried to forge a community in his neighborhood by warning new residents about a spate of mailbox thefts and lobbying authorities to investigate the incidents.

The two men did not meet until one night last July, when Serbeck was patrolling the area in his SUV, looking for whoever was behind the thefts.

Campos was in his SUV too, looking for a suspicious car, and nearly collided with Serbeck. Both men were armed. Shots were fired.

Now one man is in a wheelchair, paralyzed from the chest down. The other is scheduled to stand trial in July, charged with attempted murder.

"It's divided people and changed a lot of people's lives," said Trevor Roberts, 40, who lives near Campos but is also friends with Serbeck. "It's just a tragedy for both of them."

An agricultural town turned bedroom community, Bluffdale has a mix of newer homes and older houses with cows and chickens in the yards. On its south end lies the 190-acre Parry Farms development.

Buffered by scrubland and reached via narrow onetime country lanes, Parry Farms consists of large split-level homes on curlicued streets carved out of the bluffs above the Jordan River. Many houses were never occupied or fell into foreclosure, and the area is dotted with vacant lots.

"It's super-secluded," said resident Kevin Swensen. "You'd have to get lost to find this place."

The Serbecks were among the first families in phase one of the development. They moved in three years ago, and David Serbeck quickly began greeting the young families that followed.

"He seriously has been the glue in our neighborhood," said Amanda Groff, 29, who lives across the street.

When he wasn't helping out in yards or on cars, Serbeck, whose wife is a Salt Lake County sheriff's deputy, was often seen tooling around the winding streets on his motorcycle or taking his ATV off on some excursion. So it seemed natural that Troy Peterson, his neighbor and president of the homeowners' association, turn to Serbeck for help patrolling the night of July 21.

Both Serbeck and Campos declined to be interviewed. But according to court records, Peterson told Serbeck that there had been a rash of home burglaries, and residents feared the perpetrators could be living in some of the empty, foreclosed homes.

A friend of Peterson's at the Salt Lake County Sheriff's Department had given him surveillance photos of cars that authorities thought could be tied to local criminals. The two hopped into Serbeck's Chevy Tahoe and began to patrol the streets, looking for the cars.

They had to stop abruptly, however, to avoid hitting two teenage girls who suddenly walked out of some brush and into the street. Serbeck testified at a hearing last year that he simply told the girls, "Be safe going home."

Minutes later, the pair spotted a light-colored car that seemed to match the photos of suspicious vehicles. They began to follow it.

Serbeck testified that he tried to edge close enough to see the license plate number but that the driver played "cat and mouse" with them -- speeding up, slowing down and weaving through Parry Farms' twisty streets. When the car eventually sped onto one of the main streets of town, Serbeck and Peterson decided not to give chase and returned to their block.

Later that night, Serbeck was tinkering with his motorcycle in his driveway when he saw the light-colored car go by again. He called out to Peterson and they climbed back into Serbeck's car. This time, Serbeck brought his .45 pistol, for which he has a concealed weapons permit.

"It was dark," Serbeck said in court. It was just before midnight.

Serbeck drove to phase two -- the newer part of the development, separated from his part by a small hill. A Toyota SUV suddenly pulled up from behind, swerved around him and stopped, cutting him off.

A man jumped out with a gun in his hand, Serbeck testified. It was Campos.

Campos had bought his 9-millimeter pistol more than 20 years ago when he was applying for jobs with the FBI and Internal Revenue Service, a career track he later abandoned. The gun had "been buried since then," said his brother, Conrad Campos.

But events in the prior weeks had led Reginald Campos to bring the weapon out of storage. First there were the mailbox break- ins. Then someone broke into the Campos' garage. While the family slept, the burglar forced open three cars and stole credit cards, and later used them at local stores.

Then, late on July 21, Campos got a call from his 16-year-old daughter, Stephanie, according to court records. A strange man in a car was chasing her.

Stephanie and a friend had left a party on Serbeck's block earlier that night when they were cut off by an SUV as they walked home. Stephanie was disturbed by the exchange with the driver.

When she reached her house, she took the family's light-sky-blue Chrysler Sebring and drove back to the party to pick up two more friends. The same SUV began following her, and Stephanie only shook the car by heading to one of the main streets.

She called her father, who told her to come home, then join him as he set out looking for the offending vehicle, court records show. "He just wanted to defend himself, his family, his neighborhood," Conrad Campos said of his brother.

When Campos jumped out of his SUV, Serbeck, the former sniper, got out as well. Serbeck's body was partly shielded by the driver's side door, which also concealed the gun he held in his hand.

What happened next is in dispute.

Serbeck testified that Campos angrily asked why he and Peterson were following his daughter. Serbeck replied that he was with neighborhood watch and that he was going to put his own gun down. He testified that he held the gun by the barrel, pointed down, dropped it to the pavement and kicked it away.

"Let's talk," he said, according to his testimony.

Serbeck said he then heard a girl in Campos' SUV screaming: "Don't listen to him! He's lying, he's lying!"

"And then, from that point on, he looked at me and said, 'How stupid do you think I am?' " Serbeck testified. "And then I just heard gunshots."

A tape of the 911 call Campos placed described a very different encounter: "He got out of his car, pulled a gun on me and cocked it, and I let him have it."

Campos later told investigators that he had emerged from his car with his gun in his back pocket. He drew and fired at least twice, Campos said, when he heard Serbeck rack his own gun in preparation to fire.

One bullet passed through Serbeck's lung and pierced his spine. He was evacuated by helicopter, and sheriff's deputies arrested Campos. He was charged with attempted murder and held in jail for a week until he posted $100,000 bail.

In court documents summarizing why Campos was held, prosecutors noted that Serbeck's gun was found with its safety on, meaning it could not have been racked or fired. However, during a court hearing in October, detectives acknowledged that the weapon had a bullet in the chamber, implying that it had been racked earlier. But exactly when and how that happened is unclear.

Peterson has testified that he never saw Serbeck point a gun at Campos and that Campos emerged from his SUV with his gun already drawn.

"We were presented with two scenarios," said Alicia Cook, a spokeswoman for the Salt Lake County district attorney's office. "The scenario by Mr. Serbeck was the one that was more substantiated."

If convicted, Campos could be sentenced to life in prison.

But Campos' attorney, Greg Skordas, contends that the real guilty party is Utah's gun culture. Many residents own firearms and believe in their right to use them for protection.

"Both men jumped out and both had guns, which I suppose was the worst thing," Skordas said. "If you and I jumped out of our cars [unarmed], we shove each other, maybe walk away embarrassed. But they had to make a decision."

It's been an awkward and painful time in Parry Farms since the shooting.

Serbeck's and Campos' children attend the same schools. The Campos children trick-or-treated on Serbeck's block on Halloween. Campos' wife attends homeowner association meetings, where Serbeck's neighbors try to give her a wide berth.

In phase one, Campos' name is met with scowls. "People in the neighborhood all hope he hangs for this," said Reed Atkin, a neighbor of Serbeck's.

Other neighbors look with dismay at what happened to Serbeck. "He was just a guy who lived life to the fullest," neighbor Lisa Madden said. "Of all the people to put in a wheelchair."

Escalating the tensions is a lawsuit that Campos' attorney filed on behalf of a 19-year-old woman who says that Serbeck seduced her when she was 16 and threatened to kill her friends if they learned of the relationship. Serbeck has told neighbors the claim is false. Still, when they criticize Campos, Serbeck urges sympathy, they say.

"Dave says, 'Oh, he's protecting his daughter,' " Madden said. "Dave's not said bad things. But we are all pissed off."

In phase two, many residents have sympathy for Serbeck. But some are also standing by their own neighbor. "My heart and prayers went out to Dave and his family, but he's not the only victim here," said Campos' next-door neighbor, KanaMarie Poulson.

Poulson said that she was surprised to learn that Campos owned a gun. "You don't look at Reggie and think he's a hunter or a gun-toting NRA member," she said. "He's just quiet and reserved."

The thefts have stopped at Parry Farms. Federal authorities say that, partly thanks to earlier reports from Campos, they are close to indicting four suspects.

At a recent homeowners association meeting, residents talked about trying to start a neighborhood watch program that would be more formal than Serbeck's and Peterson's improvised late-night patrol. But the conversation was brief.

"We just moved on," Madden said.

Re: RACK the gun nuts

Posted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 8:41 pm
by Screw_Michigan
Yes, Mikey. More guns is always the answer. You know that.

Re: RACK the gun nuts

Posted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 8:54 pm
by Wolfman
If everyone had a gun when flying on September 11, 2001 the twin towers would still be standing and the death toll might have been 19 or so. Refute that.

Re: RACK the gun nuts

Posted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 9:08 pm
by LTS TRN 2
So, wolf, have you figured out how the "terrorist" who supposedly flew flight 93 did so with no training whatsoever? You know, the guy who couldn't even fly a Cessna?
http://noolmusic.com/utube_live/pilot_w ... _and_1.php

Stop dreaming. It was a Reichstag Fire now known as the New Pearl Harbor.

Guess what? It wouldn't have mattered if the passengers had Gatling guns. Flight 175, for example, was shot down, not forced by the heroic passengers as depicted in the fake movie. The miles long trail of plane parts was reported--and immediately secured, gathered and sealed--permanently, just like those videos of the pentagon attack.

Wake the fuck up.

As for the comical neighborhood watch clowns, let's hope they were Mormons, eh? 8)

Re: RACK the gun nuts

Posted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 9:13 pm
by Mikey
Wolfman wrote:If everyone had a gun when flying on September 11, 2001 the twin towers would still be standing and the death toll might have been 19 or so. Refute that.
Guns on airplanes?

Yeah, you have a functioning brain.
:meds:

Re: RACK the gun nuts

Posted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 9:46 pm
by Diego in Seattle
Wolfman wrote:If everyone had a gun when flying on September 11, 2001 the twin towers would still be standing and the death toll might have been 19 or so. Refute that.
I remember during the seventies someone suggesting after a spate of hijackings that all air passengers be armed

The person who said it?

Archie Bunker

Great intellectual company you have there, wolfie.

Re: RACK the gun nuts

Posted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 10:24 pm
by mvscal
But Campos' attorney, Greg Skordas, contends that the real guilty party is Utah's gun culture. Many residents own firearms and believe in their right to use them for protection.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Nice try, dipshit. I guess he doesn't have much choice other than to talk straight out of his ass, though. His client is toast.

Yes, everyone has the right to own firearms and use them for protection. They also have the obligation to acquire the training necessary to use them in a responsible and controlled manner.

Re: RACK the gun nuts

Posted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 11:11 pm
by Mikey
mvscal wrote:
They also have the obligation to acquire the training necessary to use them in a responsible and controlled manner.
Trying to find that in the second amendment. Can you help a brotha out here?

Re: RACK the gun nuts

Posted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 11:32 pm
by mvscal
Mikey wrote:Trying to find that in the second amendment. Can you help a brotha out here?
That would be the section refering to a "well regulated militia." Serbeck, as a former Army sniper, was quite familiar with the proper use and handling of firearms. His actions were proper and well reasoned.

Campos, on the other hand, "bought his 9-millimeter pistol more than 20 years ago when he was applying for jobs with the FBI and Internal Revenue Service, a career track he later abandoned. The gun had "been buried since then," said his brother, Conrad Campos." and then reacted hysterically to a non-violent situation.

Questions?

Re: RACK the gun nuts

Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 1:21 am
by smackaholic
sounds like a really unfortunate accident. campos fukked up for sure. should he get locked down for the rest of his life? no fukking way. he should remain free. he should also be made to pay some sort of restitutionto the guy he gunned down. locking him up fixes nothing.

Re: RACK the gun nuts

Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 1:58 am
by mvscal
smackaholic wrote:he should remain free.
Uh....no. His negligence and incompetance is criminal and must be punished.

Re: RACK the gun nuts

Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 3:01 am
by Wolfman

Great intellectual company you have there, wolfie.

What does "intellect" have to do with it. Fact is the Twin towers would still be standing even if everyone was packing a Taser. Todd Beamer and his fellow heroes probably saved the Capital Building or the White House with just shear courage. I'd picture you cowering in your seat waiting to die.

Re: RACK the gun nuts

Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 3:43 am
by Mikey
I didn't know that Tasers and guns were the same thing.

Gee I guess you learn something new every day.

Re: RACK the gun nuts

Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 3:49 am
by Mikey
smackaholic wrote:sounds like a really unfortunate accident. campos fukked up for sure. should he get locked down for the rest of his life? no fukking way. he should remain free. he should also be made to pay some sort of restitutionto the guy he gunned down. locking him up fixes nothing.
Some sort of restitution? Like what? Really you can't be this dumb. It was not an "accident". He knew what he was doing and he shot the guy on purpose. How can it be an accident?

Locking him up might convince the next cowboy dumbfuck not to go around shooting people who aren't committing a crime.

The asshole is no better and no worse than the equally dumb cowboy who goes out, drinks a fifth of bourbon and piles into an innocent driver.

Re: RACK the gun nuts

Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 3:51 am
by Trampis
Men, some of us are more eager to show our machisimo then others, and sometimes it gets us killed, or kills others for no good reason.

Re: RACK the gun nuts

Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 9:39 am
by mvscal
Mikey wrote:The asshole is no better and no worse than the equally dumb cowboy who goes out, drinks a fifth of bourbon and piles into an innocent driver.
True enough, but I don't hear you calling for a ban on alcohol or "RACKING the alcohol nuts."

Hypocrisy much?

Re: RACK the gun nuts

Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 1:40 pm
by smackaholic
Mikey wrote:
smackaholic wrote:sounds like a really unfortunate accident. campos fukked up for sure. should he get locked down for the rest of his life? no fukking way. he should remain free. he should also be made to pay some sort of restitutionto the guy he gunned down. locking him up fixes nothing.
Some sort of restitution? Like what? Really you can't be this dumb. It was not an "accident". He knew what he was doing and he shot the guy on purpose. How can it be an accident?

Locking him up might convince the next cowboy dumbfuck not to go around shooting people who aren't committing a crime.

The asshole is no better and no worse than the equally dumb cowboy who goes out, drinks a fifth of bourbon and piles into an innocent driver.
bad analogy, imo. getting drunk and climbing behind the wheel is totally inexcusable. there is no good reason to do it. this guy was certainly negligent, but, i seriously doubt he set out to shoot anyone up that night. he got a call from his daughter who he thought was in danger. he obviously bungled it from there, but, the is no way you can show that he wanted to shoot an innocent man.

locking him away certainly punishes him. whoop dee do. leaving him free to take care of his family and pay some sort of restitution to the other family, imo makes much more sense. i'd prefer that prison bed go to some pos who has willfully commited crimes.

Re: RACK the gun nuts

Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 1:43 pm
by smackaholic
mvscal wrote:
smackaholic wrote:he should remain free.
Uh....no. His negligence and incompetance is criminal and must be punished.
Agreed. But, he is extremely unlikely to repeat the offense and is apparently a model citizen when not playing sheriff.

Locking him away punishes him and the tax payers. Making him pay restitution punishes him and helps in some way his victim.

Re: RACK the gun nuts

Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 4:23 pm
by Mikey
mvscal wrote:
Mikey wrote:The asshole is no better and no worse than the equally dumb cowboy who goes out, drinks a fifth of bourbon and piles into an innocent driver.
True enough, but I don't hear you calling for a ban on alcohol or "RACKING the alcohol nuts."

Hypocrisy much?
Drunk drivers? Lock 'em away.

Searching for a strawman much?

Re: RACK the gun nuts

Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 4:40 pm
by Mikey
smackaholic wrote:
Mikey wrote:
smackaholic wrote:sounds like a really unfortunate accident. campos fukked up for sure. should he get locked down for the rest of his life? no fukking way. he should remain free. he should also be made to pay some sort of restitutionto the guy he gunned down. locking him up fixes nothing.
Some sort of restitution? Like what? Really you can't be this dumb. It was not an "accident". He knew what he was doing and he shot the guy on purpose. How can it be an accident?

Locking him up might convince the next cowboy dumbfuck not to go around shooting people who aren't committing a crime.

The asshole is no better and no worse than the equally dumb cowboy who goes out, drinks a fifth of bourbon and piles into an innocent driver.
bad analogy, imo. getting drunk and climbing behind the wheel is totally inexcusable. there is no good reason to do it. this guy was certainly negligent, but, i seriously doubt he set out to shoot anyone up that night. he got a call from his daughter who he thought was in danger. he obviously bungled it from there, but, the is no way you can show that he wanted to shoot an innocent man.

locking him away certainly punishes him. whoop dee do. leaving him free to take care of his family and pay some sort of restitution to the other family, imo makes much more sense. i'd prefer that prison bed go to some pos who has willfully commited crimes.
So, a guy grabs his gun, goes off searching for bad guys in the neighborhood, stops an innocent person and shoots him because he looks suspicious, and you don't think he should do time?

If anything fits the description of "violent crime" this does.

How will he make "restitution" for what he has done? What if he's broke? How do you know he won't realize he got off easy and decide to go out vigilanteing again? What about the next guy who does the same thing - slap on the hand and send him on his way?

You, my friend, are fucking nuts. I, for one, do not want a bunch of armed self-appointed vigilantes roaming my streets "protecting" me.

Re: RACK the gun nuts

Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 7:58 pm
by smackaholic
Mikey wrote:So, a guy grabs his gun, goes off searching for bad guys in the neighborhood, stops an innocent person and shoots him because he looks suspicious, and you don't think he should do time?

If anything fits the description of "violent crime" this does.

How will he make "restitution" for what he has done? What if he's broke? How do you know he won't realize he got off easy and decide to go out vigilanteing again? What about the next guy who does the same thing - slap on the hand and send him on his way?

You, my friend, are fucking nuts. I, for one, do not want a bunch of armed self-appointed vigilantes roaming my streets "protecting" me.
He honestly thought his daughter was being stalked. What would you do? Maybe in your hood, the police might be there in 10 seconds. This guy lived in the stick where a cop might be an hour or two away which, in such a case would mean they might as well be 3 days away. So, he did what he thought he had to do to possibly save the life of his daughter. He then fukked up rather badly. He was not simply a fukking cowboy looking to off someone.

Actually, he might have been, but, my first scenario might have been the case as well.

For one fukking second, put aside your extreme gun control nazi bias and look at it from a different point of view.

Re: RACK the gun nuts

Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 9:23 pm
by Mikey
smackaholic wrote:
Mikey wrote:So, a guy grabs his gun, goes off searching for bad guys in the neighborhood, stops an innocent person and shoots him because he looks suspicious, and you don't think he should do time?

If anything fits the description of "violent crime" this does.

How will he make "restitution" for what he has done? What if he's broke? How do you know he won't realize he got off easy and decide to go out vigilanteing again? What about the next guy who does the same thing - slap on the hand and send him on his way?

You, my friend, are fucking nuts. I, for one, do not want a bunch of armed self-appointed vigilantes roaming my streets "protecting" me.
He honestly thought his daughter was being stalked. What would you do? Maybe in your hood, the police might be there in 10 seconds. This guy lived in the stick where a cop might be an hour or two away which, in such a case would mean they might as well be 3 days away. So, he did what he thought he had to do to possibly save the life of his daughter. He then fukked up rather badly. He was not simply a fukking cowboy looking to off someone.

Actually, he might have been, but, my first scenario might have been the case as well.

For one fukking second, put aside your extreme gun control nazi bias and look at it from a different point of view.
He thought his daughter was being stalked. She wasn't. It was another cowboy out to "protect" the neighborhood (you do see the irony here, I hope).

They don't live in the sticks, they live in the burbs.

My "gun control nazi bias" isn't quite as extreme as you might think. You want to carry a gun in public, be my guest. But guns are dangerous, aren't they? Meant to be lethal? Learn how to use it and if you misuse it be prepared to PAY THE FUCKING CONSEQUENCES.

Maybe you need to consider a different point of view.

Guns don't kill people, people kill people, right? The motherfucker committed a serious crime by shooting an innocent civilian. Whether by "mistake" or not. He deserves an extremely long sentence in lockup.

Re: RACK the gun nuts

Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 2:56 am
by Mikey
OK I think I better get me some guns and major piles of ammo.

The violent revolution starts tomorrow.

Re: RACK the gun nuts

Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 3:48 am
by titlover
Mikey wrote:
mvscal wrote:
Mikey wrote:The asshole is no better and no worse than the equally dumb cowboy who goes out, drinks a fifth of bourbon and piles into an innocent driver.
True enough, but I don't hear you calling for a ban on alcohol or "RACKING the alcohol nuts."

Hypocrisy much?
Drunk drivers? Lock 'em away.

Searching for a strawman much?
nice dodge, duck, dip, dive and.....dodge. :lol:

Re: RACK the gun nuts

Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 3:49 am
by Dr_Phibes
This story has a Mr. Bushice ring to it, seems to me like a way he would go.

A suburban version of the OK corral - lots of beer bellies, lawn tractors, self inflicted bullet holes in feet.

Re: RACK the gun nuts

Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 5:40 am
by H4ever
smackaholic wrote:
mvscal wrote:
smackaholic wrote:he should remain free.
Uh....no. His negligence and incompetance is criminal and must be punished.
Agreed. But, he is extremely unlikely to repeat the offense and is apparently a model citizen when not playing sheriff.

Locking him away punishes him and the tax payers. Making him pay restitution punishes him and helps in some way his victim.
How about signing over his assets to his victim as a form of criminal restitution along with a 5- 10 year sentence? Compensates the victim and punishes the criminal.

Douchebags like Campos and their irresponsible actions do nothing but promote gun control. Other than NRA publications, you never see articles in the media where armed citizens save lives or thwart armed robberies and other violent crimes.

Re: RACK the gun nuts

Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 6:42 am
by Roger_the_Shrubber
How does sticking this guy in Prison help anyone? House arrest, the ankle bracelet etc. is all that is needed. Monetary fines, sure. But stikcing a guy in prison for 10 years? Have you ever been to a prison? It creates criminals and destroys lives.

House arrest this guy, for 10 years if need be. Has to call everytime he goes to the 7-11, and work, when he leaves work, etc. An ENORMOUS pain in the ass. That's a fitting punishment, but prison? Nah!

Re: RACK the gun nuts

Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 6:47 am
by Roger_the_Shrubber
Mikey wrote:OK I think I better get me some guns and major piles of ammo.

The violent revolution starts tomorrow.

Not tommorrow, but next year maybe.

BTW, I already have stockpiled enough to hold off the neighbors. The Gubmint has WAY too many people and ammo for me to hold off. But that bitch next door with the yappy dog........that mutt is TOAST!

PS - I grow tomatoes, green beans, potatoes, garlic and onions. And my 16 gauge helps me fend off the would be garden thieves!

UP THE REVOLUTION!!!!!!!!

Happy Easter!

:D

Re: RACK the gun nuts

Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 3:37 am
by mvscal
Roger_the_Shrubber wrote:How does sticking this guy in Prison help anyone?
Punishing criminal negligence is an obligation that society has to its individual members. If you're too stupid to understand that basic fact, it's OK. It operates without your comprehension.