T1B

When did Dungy become the end-all/be-all in all things NFL? First he is "mentoring" all the troubled black boys. Now he's finding Christers who suck and claiming they are the shit.

He sat back and let Peyton do his thing. He was a defensive coach, and under his watch, the Cotls defense pretty much sucked most of the time until the very end. Better yet, when was the last time Dungy ripped someone? Maybe he follows the old line if you can't say something nice about someone, don't say anything at all. Personally, when someone wants to be known as a talent evaluator, I hold a lot more respect for their opinions when I hear both the good and the bad. And just so I can beat you all to it, I know Dungy couldn't give a fuck about what I respect. I'm just sayin'.

IndyFrisco wrote:Now he's finding Christers who suck

Who? Tebow? You might want to back up take another run at it.

Perpetual bitterman syndrome.

I'll be surprised if he goes in the 1st round.

Tha' fuck can Dungy claim to have heard the same things about Steve freaking Young that he heard about Radio and TimTebow(tm)?

Steve Young had wheels, sure, but he came out of BYU, where QBs actually do know how to throw a football.

Del Rio is Jacksonville's coach, and that's strictly a hometown favorite kinda deal.

Sudden Sam wrote:"I heard the same things about Steve Young. I heard the same things about Vince Young," he noted of Tebow, the 2007 Heisman Trophy winner.[/i]

Young's NFL career has been full of peaks and valleys. Teams don't want to wait 4 years for a QB to fix himself.

mvscal wrote:

IndyFrisco wrote:Now he's finding Christers who suck

Who? Tebow? You might want to back up take another run at it.

Epic fail.


While I won't discount the Jesus Part Deaux's potential to improve...


the guy spent 4 years as a duck-and chuck who had trouble hitting the broad side of a barn with a bowl of rice.


Now, if someone wanted to make him a "prototype" and line him up to take snaps at FB in the wildcat, then run some sort of option from there.


YEAH BABY! I'll watch.


But really -- there's a reason we're not talking about who's going to be the #2 pick after Praise Be Unto Him.

Dinsdale wrote:the guy spent 4 years as a duck-and chuck who had trouble hitting the broad side of a barn with a bowl of rice.

66.4 career completion percentage says you don't know what you're talking about either. That level of accuracy would put him in the top ten if not the top five in the NFL. No telling how well that will translate to the NFL but anyone claiming that he sucks based on what he has accomplished so far is an idiot.

He's got the size, strength, tremendous athleticism and the intangibles to succeed in the NFL. Those positives are balanced against the fact that he didn't play in a pro style offense and his throwing motion needs a little work. I don't see either of those negatives as being a showstopper.

I don't think Dungy is far offbase. The first round might be a reach, but I'm sure there are a lot of QB hungry teams downplaying their interest. Jax would be a great fit. It's a need position for them and they desperately need an attraction.

I pretty much agree with what mvscal said there.

Don't know if he'll go first round, but I'd bet he won't last through the 2nd.
Somebody will snatch him up and take a shot on him.

He's got some tools and I think he'll have the energy and motivation to legitimately make a run at being an NFL starter.

Not saying he'll be all-pro, but I think there's a good chance he'll be a reasonable starter at some point down the road.


jmo

BSmack wrote:

Sudden Sam wrote:"I heard the same things about Steve Young. I heard the same things about Vince Young," he noted of Tebow, the 2007 Heisman Trophy winner.[/i]

Young's NFL career has been full of peaks and valleys. Teams don't want to wait 4 years for a QB to fix himself.

Peaks and valleys? Seems to me he had one long valley waiting for Joe Montana to move on, and then he had 8 decent years in a row.

Regardless of where he's taken, there will probably be little doubt from his new employer that he's going to put the work in to get onto the field. That can't be said of all higher draft picks *cough*Jamarshmellow*cough*

Goober McTuber wrote:

BSmack wrote:

Sudden Sam wrote:"I heard the same things about Steve Young. I heard the same things about Vince Young," he noted of Tebow, the 2007 Heisman Trophy winner.[/i]

Young's NFL career has been full of peaks and valleys. Teams don't want to wait 4 years for a QB to fix himself.

Peaks and valleys? Seems to me he had one long valley waiting for Joe Montana to move on, and then he had 8 decent years in a row.

I was confused at first, too -- but I'm pretty sure he was refering to Vince... which would make what appeared to be a ridiculous take into a solid one.

mvscal wrote:

Dinsdale wrote:the guy spent 4 years as a duck-and chuck who had trouble hitting the broad side of a barn with a bowl of rice.

66.4 career completion percentage says you don't know what you're talking about either. That level of accuracy would put him in the top ten if not the top five in the NFL.

Really?

You're an idiot.

I watched many of the games UF played over the last 3 seasons (he rarely threw the ball as a frosh). You obviously didn't.

My grandmother could have gone 66% popgunning it 3 yards to Percy Harvin, and she's been dead for decades.


Why don't you do a search for "Tebow" or "Jesus" in the CFB Forum, and see if you can figure out why I'm laughing at your ignorant ass.

To reiterate -- I'm not discounting his ability to excel in the Big Show. He's an amazing leader, an amazing athlete, and has always appeared to be a quick study. But these qualities don't somehow mean he's hitting targets like Montana or Marino...


puh-leez.


But wherever he lands -- opposing LBs/safties should be very afraid. That's a load coming up the field.


Sin,
Eric Berry


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uv3UpcZRlWU

America's New Currency

Did mvscal actually try to use the completion percentage of a college QB as any sort of barometer for passing accuracy?

Now I've seen everything. I'm beginning to think dude has watched five college football games in his entire life, and they were all during this past year.

Tebow threw mostly dump-off passes, along with the occasional heave to some wide open guy who was usually much bigger and faster than his defender.

Yeah, VY had a nice passing percentage too...while at Texas. Like Tebow, when you have all day to throw and you have a choice of receivers who don't have any defenders within ten yards of them, yeah, you tend to put up nice numbers. This is what happens when your team can physically dominate the other team nearly every week of the season.

And no, poor passing techniques don't get corrected in the NFL. Guys who enter the league with funky throwing motions following four years in college retain that funky throwing motion in the NFL. Tebow's sundial-slow throwing motion means that he's going to see a lot of balls getting stripped from behind, and a lot of his receivers who were briefly open will no longer be, by the time the ball arrives.

Tebow is a turnover waiting to happen, once that timing window goes from nearly infinity - the way it was for him at Florida - to infintesimal, the way it is in the NFL.

mvscal wrote:

IndyFrisco wrote:Now he's finding Christers who suck

Who? Tebow? You might want to back up take another run at it.

Back up and take a run at it? Yup, about all Tebow can do well. And in the pros, there'll be a lot more of this:



than this:



if he continues to just run the ball.

Dinsdale wrote:

Goober McTuber wrote:

BSmack wrote: Young's NFL career has been full of peaks and valleys. Teams don't want to wait 4 years for a QB to fix himself.

Peaks and valleys? Seems to me he had one long valley waiting for Joe Montana to move on, and then he had 8 decent years in a row.

I was confused at first, too -- but I'm pretty sure he was refering to Vince... which would make what appeared to be a ridiculous take into a solid one.

See, I was pretty sure it wasn’t Vince because I was not aware of any peaks in his career.

Van wrote:Did mvscal actually try to use the completion percentage of a college QB as any sort of barometer for passing accuracy?

Now I've seen everything. I'm beginning to think dude has watched five college football games in his entire life, and they were all during this past year.

Didn't you see him show his face for the first time in the CFB forum right around the end of October? Yep, about 5 games is right.

Tebow operated in a one read offense. If a pass was called, he carried out his play action, and looked for his one read to be open. If not, there was a possibility of a dump off, but he could just take off and run.

Look at what he went through at the Senior Bowl. The first time he had to go through a progression he almost shit himself. Add to that the fact he struggles to take a snap from center, and it's unlikely he will be a successful NFL QB. The guy could be a hell of an athlete, and I think he would be successful in an H-back/TE role.

Having said all of that, he's someone I don't think will succeed, but I wouldn't bet against.

But all of those shitty QB's have years in a pro style offense and are mostly mechanically sound.

Alex Smith isn't exactly helping Thy Lord Tebow.

Van wrote: Tebow is a turnover waiting to happen, once that timing window goes from nearly infinity - the way it was for him at Florida - to infintesimal, the way it is in the NFL.

Eliminated

Rack the take anyway.

Sudden Sam wrote:Someone will work him at QB. Maybe not for long, but he'll get a shot. There are so many shitty QBs in the league right now, he's bound to get a chance somewhere.

But he'll probably end up as a TE or H-back, I agree.

Tebow reminds me of Matt Jones but with less size and without the coke habit.

War Wagon wrote:

Van wrote: Tebow is a turnover waiting to happen, once that timing window goes from nearly infinity - the way it was for him at Florida - to infintesimal, the way it is in the NFL.

Eliminated

Rack the take anyway.

Dude, my eyes are way too fuggen shot to be able to spot the missing 'i' next to small case 't's!

Words like illiterate or itinerate fairly make me look like Tojo when I try to read them on my screen.

that's why I press my face very close against the screen and type mash keys with my chin.

I have to wear Joe Paterno reading glasses now, otherwise, forget it. When I do editing work, I always wear them. Here? Not so much. I figure that if I miss a letter in a post where Dins is calling someone alarmingly stupid, I'll live.

Dinsdale wrote:My grandmother could have gone 66% popgunning it 3 yards to Percy Harvin,

Why not? It made Tom Brady a superstar. Needless to say, that wasn't your point. Your point was that he is inaccurate. The numbers don't lie. You do.

But these qualities don't somehow mean he's hitting targets like Montana or Marino...

Hitting targets like Montana? He wrote the book on dink and dunk short passes to athletic receivers.

Van wrote:And no, poor passing techniques don't get corrected in the NFL.

Tell it to Drew Brees. I guess he didn't your memo.

Van wrote:Did mvscal actually try to use the completion percentage of a college QB as any sort of barometer for passing accuracy?

And what metric should be used to determine passing accuracy? I'll take your answer off the air.

Killian wrote:But all of those shitty QB's have years in a pro style offense and are mostly mechanically sound.

All that says is sound mechanics and college experience in a pro style offense are essentially meaningless and overrated at the very least.

woah, 4 rapid fire posts in a row. I sense a plan here.

I think mv may be angling for the duhs to take Tebow in the first round

mvscal wrote:

Van wrote:And no, poor passing techniques don't get corrected in the NFL.

Tell it to Drew Brees. I guess he didn't your memo.

Drew Brees never had a trainwreck of a passing motion like VY or Tebow. Never. His freshman year at Purdue, his throwing motion already looked more like Tom Brady's than VY's or Tebow's ever will.

Van wrote:Drew Brees never had a trainwreck of a passing motion like VY or Tebow. Never.

He had a popgun arm that was virtually useless at the professional level. He changed his delivery, got more of his body into his throw and his distance and velocity dramatically increased, so don't tell me something as trivial as throwing motion can't be corrected by somebody who is willing to work at it.

Phillip Rivers would have been a better example, but we get that you don't follow football all that much.

How are all those spread QB's doing in the NFL? I'll wait and take your answer off the air.

mvscal wrote:

Van wrote:Drew Brees never had a trainwreck of a passing motion like VY or Tebow. Never.

He had a popgun arm that was virtually useless at the professional level. He changed his delivery, got more of his body into his throw and his distance and velocity dramatically increased, so don't tell me something as trivial as throwing motion can't be corrected by somebody who is willing to work at it.

Exactly. It's simply a matter of repetitions doing it the right way. It's no different than correcting a swing flaw in baseball. It's not easy to do, but it can be done if the player is willing to put in the work.

mvscal wrote:All that says is sound mechanics and college experience in a pro style offense are essentially meaningless and overrated at the very least.

Aren't you the guy who hates balck quarterbacks?

Brees was solid from the moment he stepped foot in the NFL. He was solid at Purdue. He didn't have to completely change the angle of his arm or his release point, and he didn't need to learn not to drop the ball to his hip before bringing it back up into the throwing motion.

VY's had years of tutoring on his throwing 'technique', and he still throws like a girl.

Mace wrote:

mvscal wrote:

Van wrote:Drew Brees never had a trainwreck of a passing motion like VY or Tebow. Never.

He had a popgun arm that was virtually useless at the professional level. He changed his delivery, got more of his body into his throw and his distance and velocity dramatically increased, so don't tell me something as trivial as throwing motion can't be corrected by somebody who is willing to work at it.

Exactly. It's simply a matter of repetitions doing it the right way. It's no different than correcting a swing flaw in baseball. It's not easy to do, but it can be done if the player is willing to put in the work.

A baseball swing is incredibly hard to change, even with repitition. Ask Drew Henson or any other top prospect that has a hitch in their swing. Even if they do put in the time, it's not a guarantee they can change.

Killian wrote:A baseball swing is incredibly hard to change, even with repitition. Ask Drew Henson or any other top prospect that has a hitch in their swing. Even if they do put in the time, it's not a guarantee they can change.

That's why I said "it isn't easy"....but it can be done. As for a baseball swing, it kind of depends on what flaws you're trying to eliminate. A "hitch" can't be eliminated if the player buys into the changes being made and the coach has effective methods/drills for getting him to break the bad habits. Simple reps is not the answer, but lots of reps doing it the right way can ingrain the swing into muscle memory and get the desired results. The same is true for pitching mechanics...which would be a better comparison to a QB's throwing mechanics.

Van wrote:Brees was solid from the moment he stepped foot in the NFL.

If he was so solid why did the Chargers draft Rivers? Brees was (and is) a grinder with a great work ethic, but he was not even remotely prepared to be a quality NFL QB. His physical limitations were considered insurmountable by most people.

Once again the numbers speak for themselves. He sucked for three years. He threw more picks than touchdowns and his completion percentage was below average. Then the light finally went on and he learned how to throw the ball at a pro level. He didn't walk into the league a 4K yard gunslinger. He worked his ass off to get there and he had to change the way the way he played to do it.

Tebow has that same work ethic and leadership ability with much better physical gifts than Brees had. The kid is a winner and a grinder and I would weigh that more heavily than any other data points.

Brees had pinpoint accuracy in a pass heavy offense with multiple reads while in college. Tebow had accuracy issues in a single read offense. He doesn't know how to do a 3,5 or 7 step drop, struggles with progressions and snaps from center and has never had to read a defense.

Yep, sounds like he should be a first or second round draft pick.

Killian wrote:Brees had pinpoint accuracy in a pass heavy offense with multiple reads while in college.

What does that have to do with his popgun arm and the easily intercepted floaters he shat out his first three years in the league?