T1B

The inevitable reply: “We’ve got a world-class symphony orchestra,” typically embellished with some transparently phony claim about how it compares to those in other cities (“It’s in the top 15 or 20 in the world!”), as if orchestras are regularly ranked like NCAA basketball teams.

I fukkin' hate SBSH (symphony ball sucking homer). The real problem is, this kind of BS will continue until they go to a playoff system.

Before you explain "how", you have to address "why".

Goober McTuber wrote:Before you explain "how", you have to address "why".

Here's one reason imo

BarFlie wrote:

Goober McTuber wrote:Before you explain "how", you have to address "why".

Here's one reason imo

the RRHoF is a fuggen joke. Just one moer reason to let the fuggen whole place burn down the next time the cuyahoga catches fire.

smackaholic wrote:

BarFlie wrote:

Goober McTuber wrote:Before you explain "how", you have to address "why".

Here's one reason imo

the RRHoF is a fuggen joke. Just one moer reason to let the fuggen whole place burn down the next time the cuyahoga catches fire.

I hope you've actually been there and not doing a "Holderesque" take.

88 wrote:Another big hit to Cleveland were the federal forced busing decisions. This caused "white flight" from the city.

No it didn't. Whites left cities regardless of whether or not busing was forced on them. They left for the same reason most Americans migrated; because the suburbs offered more living space. Or as Nick Frisco would call it, "Lebensraum."

I grew up on the south east side (in the suburbs - sup Garfield Hts)...and I have seen the decline 88 has talked of...Born and raised in the Cleveland area until 11 years ago when I moved south...

While the projects for Progressive Field, etc were a big hit in the mid 90's (when the Tribe was good) when they suck ass like they do now...no one fucking goes to games and no one cares...some of the things they have tried have failed miserably (88 talks of the Euclid corridor)...I used to work near there and there used to be a lot of business, etc...last time I drove around there and saw what was happening...FUCK...

there are some good companies HQ'd in Cleveland - and some major bank players (PNC, Huntington), then you have Medical Mutual of Ohio (sup former company) and some other decent sized companies...but as 88 pointed out...fucking government is huge...they are slow on the uptake and they just let things fall into disrepair...

The Rock Hall is a FUCKING JOKE...first off RUSH is not in the Rock Hall...how fucking LAME...and thank god I got free duckets I wouldn't pay my own money to go there...

there are things I love about my hometown (food, May - October is very nice with all the stuff to do)...but winters are brutal and well fuck that...

88 wrote:The problem was not less government or inattention to the problem. Per pupil spending in Cleveland is the highest in the State of Ohio and has bee for a very long time. Teacher salaries in Cleveland are among the highest in the State of Ohio and have been for a very long time. Most of the school buildings in Cleveland have been modernized repeatedly throughout the years. There are more computers per pupils in Cleveland than in suburban districts. Yet Cleveland schools have the lowest academic outcomes (except for the city of East Cleveland) in the state. Graduation rates are dismal. Attendance rates are poor. Reading achievement is poor. There is something seriously wrong in Cleveland.

Nigggers are what is seriously wrong. I would like to see just one majority black city that isn't a completely worthless shithole.

My last visit to Cleveland was enjoyable. We stayed in a downtown hotel. My daughter went to a concert, and the rest of us went to dinner at the House of Blues - which is located in a fixed up pedestrian-only street in the "Theater District". There were a number of restaurants and bars that were full (this being Friday night) on the same block, and there were a lot of folks coming and going from the various theaters. The next day, we took the kids down to the R&R museum - our third visit. The kids - ages 9 and 11 - really love that museum, and have a great time when we visit. Despite the fact that it was a very cold day, there were a lot of people out and walking around Downtown doing stuff.

On other visits, we have enjoyed the Zoo, and the museums over on the east end of Euclid. We have also enjoyed visiting the West Side Market and eating at the Great Lakes Brewery.

As long as Cleveland has a district FRB residing, then it will always be on the map as a major city.

I will say that twice during our trips there, we have taken wrong turns in the area between the museums and Downtown, and it was like entering Soweto Township. I understand the perception of everyday residents of Cleveland that the inner-city is hopelessly fukked except for a couple of small areas. That is probably the case.

The geographical characteristics of Cleveland vs. Pittsburgh are interesting to note. Pittsburgh stands a good chance of tackling problem areas in turn and having the results be good and possibly long-lasting because of how things are laid out. Pittsburgh is basically a series of ravines with some plateaus between them - this plays out like natural barriers between neighborhoods. When a slum festers, it is not quite as easy for the blight to spread, like it does quickly in a flat grid city.

30 council districts? Jesus pissing Christ. Pittsburgh has 9. Of course, Allegheny County does have 130 municipalities and 43 school districts...

I also heard recently that the residency requirement for city employees doesn't extend to the Mayor's Office in Cleveland. THAT'S gotta cause some resentment...

PSUFAN wrote:There were a number of restaurants and bars that were full (this being Friday night)

Oh, we know all about being full on a Friday night.


Sin,

Jsc810 wrote:

88 wrote:The communities and neighborhoods in Cleveland are circling the drain ... in the vicinity of Martin Luther King Drive.

Change a few details, and you've probably described most cities.

"I don't care where you are in America, if you're on Martin Luther King Boulvevard, there's some violence goin' down!"

Jsc810 wrote:

88 wrote:The communities and neighborhoods in Cleveland are circling the drain ... in the vicinity of Martin Luther King Drive.

Change a few details, and you've probably described most cities.

Actually, as recently as 10 years or so ago, MLK through NE Portland was a dilapidated war zone. Then, a very good guy by the name of Terrell Brandon took some of the millions he made in the NBA and started buying up some of the shitty properties and renovating them. Then Nike started getting in on the act, and while it still isn't paradise, it's leaps and bounds better than it was in years past. While I wouldn't enjoy the experience, I wouldn't be trembling in fear walking down MLK late at night, which wouldn't have been a great life-choice 10-15 years ago. Terrell still hangs out at his barber shop, I guess.

I understand Derrick Coleman did something similar in Detroit.

It just takes a few people (with money) to care, and things start shaping up.

And as per usualm, 88's summary of Cleveland's problems was beautifully written, and showed great insight.

Making it all the more unfortunate that he's been...

88 wrote:disfunctional

INTIMIDATED



Of course, having said that, I'll invariably commit some grade school like gaffe, if I didn't already in this very post.

Dinsdale wrote:And as per usualm, 88's summary of Cleveland's problems was beautifully written, and showed great insight.

Making it all the more unfortunate that he's been...

88 wrote:disfunctional

INTIMIDATED

Of course, having said that, I'll invariably commit some grade school-like gaffe, if I didn't already in this very post.

Yup!

Except wouldn't it be "grade-school-like gaffe"?

Are we in the midst of a

DOUBLE-ELIMINATION?

Nah. Like high school, trade school or elementary school, 'grade school' is never hyphenated. Anything preceding 'like' in the manner you used it? Yup, gotta be hyphenated.

To go all Terry here, though...to be fair, that was not a grade school-like gaffe. Most people would miss that one.

Van wrote:To go all Terry here, though...to be fair

No space before and after the ellipsis?


WE COULD DO THIS ALL DAY ... and probably will.

:D

There is never a space before an ellipsis. Some publishing programs force one following ellipses... like that...which is why we've become used to seeing a space there. It isn't required, however. It's merely a function of preferred formatting.

To be fair... I always exclude the space before the ellipsis (which I almost spelled "ellipses"), and include the one after for the sole reason that I think it looks cooler.

Dins, I'm the exact opposite. Shocker, I know. I don't like how ellipses look with the space before the word...except for when they precede a capital 'I'.

Van wrote:'I'.

ALUMINUM!

Nah.