T1B

Why does truth scare people so much ?

The fact is and remains, Hitler wasn't a monster. He was a human being, he rose to power by appealing to the fears, despair and disillusionment experienced by people in Germany.

He gave the German people the promise of Hope and Change. The Holocaust wasn't his only agenda and he did oversee great infrastructural changes and improvements in Germany. The Nazi research and experience in rocket science was secured by American and British intelligence communities and went a long way to make NASA what it is today. Much of the labor in the buildings, labs, etc. was performed by slave labor; jews, eastern euros, pows, etc..

What Stone is doing here is laying out the agenda that we are and have been - PWNT - for a very long time by people - American and Not American with lots of money.



Is he right ? Did Woodrow Wilson invite a vampire into our happy home of the U.S. ?

upcoming Showtime documentary series

Funny how these clowns always have a book, a movie or an album coming out when they say shit like this.

Being a complete idiot, though, he couldn't help but be completely, 100% wrong. Hitler was Dr. Frankenstein. The monster he created was Nazi Germany. The industrialists were Igor.

Jsc810 wrote:

Tom In VA wrote:The fact is and remains, Hitler wasn't a monster. He was a human being

Here are some human beings.

Human beings do some real shitty things and the victims are usually other human beings. Your point ?

Of course most of the time when humans do shitty things to other humans the first thing they do is rationalize that they're "less human".

The gleeful and lucrative support of U.S. and other international industrialists for Nazi Germany has been well documented here by me and others. The fact of the grotesquely disproportionate power of AIPAC on our media and government is similarly undisputed. What's your point in attacking Oliver Stone again? Oh yeah, you're Rusp Limpdick parrots. The fact of American subjugation and and manipulation of Central and South American nations for the past hundred years is also public record--and none of you of course can dispute anything Stone presents in his film. The hatchet job by the NY Times critic was hardly a surprise--since he is a complete bought and paid for attack dog against Venezuela and has been pumping out similar propagandic drivel for years. Go soak yer head.

Gee Tom, I think gas chambers pretty much trumps any sort of nationalism or industrialism the guy may have inspired. :?

Tom In VA wrote:Why does truth scare people so much ?

The fact is and remains, Hitler wasn't a monster. He was a human being, he rose to power by appealing to the fears, despair and disillusionment experienced by people in Germany.

And he was also a dog lover. That's got to count for something.

Is he right ? Did Woodrow Wilson invite a vampire into our happy home of the U.S. ?

Wilson was a racist piece of shit, but a vampire lover? WTF is that about?

KC Scott wrote:Tom is really Marge Schott???

DC and MCET are his million dollar mvscals.

Hitler was a swell guy.

sin,

All his pals in hell.

Jsc810 wrote:
By Alana Goodman

Invoke your right of aliyah and shove off already, you cunt of a whore.

I am not the one who interprets "Hitler improved Germany's infrastructure" as "Hitler was a good guy".

mvscal wrote: The industrialists were Igor.

It's pronounced "Eye-gor"

LTS TRN 2 wrote:The gleeful and lucrative support of U.S. and other international industrialists for Nazi Germany has been well documented here by me and others.

No, it hasn't. Save your woo-woo conspiracy bullshit for somebody who gives a fuck. In the meantime, crack a book someday, dumbfuck.

You can start here:

LTS TRN 2 wrote: The hatchet job by the NY Times critic was hardly a surprise--since he is a complete bought and paid for attack dog against Venezuela and has been pumping out similar propagandic drivel for years.

Venezuela
Hamas
Hezbollah
Hitler
Iran


Your parents must be proud....then again, if they're muzzies, you could really impress them by blowing yourself up....make them proud!

Cuda wrote:

mvscal wrote: The industrialists were Igor.

It's pronounced "Eye-gor"

ZING!

It's inappropriate to demonise him too much, I think. Evil, etc - blah blah. Politicians are more often than not swept along with events, rather than controlling them. Blaming him for everything seems simple minded - like everything, there were so many factors involved.
Germany was unique in that the left hand never knew what the right was doing to such a degree, on so many levels of government and within various branches of the military, things got well and truly out of hand.
Sort through the minutes of staff meetings, he was actually a pretty funny guy.

History always seems to begin when the shooting starts, no-one ever cares about beforehand - everyone was doing the same thing.

RACK Tom BTW.

Dr_Phibes wrote:It's inappropriate to demonise him too much, I think. Evil, etc - blah blah. Politicians are more often than not swept along with events, rather than controlling them. Blaming him for everything seems simple minded - like everything, there were so many factors involved.
Germany was unique in that the left hand never knew what the right was doing to such a degree, on so many levels of government and within various branches of the military, things got well and truly out of hand.
Sort through the minutes of staff meetings, he was actually a pretty funny guy.

History always seems to begin when the shooting starts, no-one ever cares about beforehand - everyone was doing the same thing.

RACK Tom BTW.

You are absolutely full of shit. Hitler and every one of his immediate subordinates knew EXACTLY what was going on.

Heinrich Himmler wrote:It is one of those things that is easily said. "The Jewish people is being exterminated," every Party member will tell you, "perfectly clear, it's part of our plans, we're eliminating the Jews, exterminating them, ha

Here's a page where you can hear audio of Himmler's confession.

http://www.holocaust-history.org/himmler-poznan/

If you think somehow that Hitler was just a nice guy who was swept away by forces beyond his control, you are a fucking idiot.

No, I don't think they did. Hitler and the German Government encompasses a rather a large entourage, all said. Quoting Himmler enforces my point rather than counters it - it gets tricky assigning blame when you need the paperwork to prove it, the SS was a large and divisioned branch of service and bravado in quotes like that is something to account for. A lot of people weren't answering to anyone, much of the time.

I never said Hitler was nice guy.

Dr_Phibes wrote:No, I don't think they did. Hitler and the German Government encompasses a rather a large entourage, all said. Quoting Himmler enforces my point rather than counters it - it gets tricky assigning blame when you need the paperwork to prove it, the SS was a large and divisioned branch of service and bravado in quotes like that is something to account for. A lot of people weren't answering to anyone, much of the time.

I never said Hitler was nice guy.

There are reams and reams of documentation from the minutes of the Wannsee Conference that established that every high level member of the German government knew and approved of the "Final Solution" to Himmler's speech, which shows that Nazis did talk in plain language amongst themselves about the Holocaust to the massive paper trail that ran right into the Reich Chancellery building down into that psychotic madman's bunker. HE FUCKING KNEW. And if you don't get that or try to use weasel words like "it gets tricky assigning blame", then you are a fucking moron.

I'm just suggesting a more nuanced approach. Look at who attended the conference, it didn't establish that every high level of the German Government knew and approved of the 'Final Solution'. Don't be completely stupid..

Read Himmler's quote - 'Every member of the party knows'. Think about the implications of that for a minute. Is it true? Or more likely someone larging their chest?
It was attended by officers of various units who got their orders from branch of service and those orders weren't executed, from there it gets murky. Did OKW know of the conference? Did OKH? Did the Galician division? Every SS combat division? Guderian? Manstein? The general public? The foreign ministry? The Labour service?

Stick your meta-group boogyman up your arse, dimwit - you're supposed to have a history degree, you're a twat and an idiot.

You panting pantie waist pouters are missing the point. Stone never questioned the evil of the Nazis, only that they had killed far more Russians and Slavs than Jews--and that the AIPAC propaganda machine has distorted the meaning of WWII for purposes of advancing their utterly demented and untenable monstrosity--the ZioNazi race state experiment anarchronistically known as Israel. Yuo did notice that quote, right?

And none of you panting twits dare address it...

"Israel has fucked up United States foreign policy for years"

Now go have tea :wink:

Dr_Phibes wrote:I'm just suggesting a more nuanced approach. Look at who attended the conference, it didn't establish that every high level of the German Government knew and approved of the 'Final Solution'. Don't be completely stupid..

Read Himmler's quote - 'Every member of the party knows'. Think about the implications of that for a minute. Is it true? Or more likely someone larging their chest?
It was attended by officers of various units who got their orders from branch of service and those orders weren't executed, from there it gets murky. Did OKW know of the conference? Did OKH? Did the Galician division? Every SS combat division? Guderian? Manstein? The general public? The foreign ministry? The Labour service?

Stick your meta-group boogyman up your arse, dimwit - you're supposed to have a history degree, you're a twat and an idiot.

For starters, the topic we were discussing was whether or not Hitler drove the final solution process or not. What the fuck Guderian and Manstien have to do with that topic is absolutely beyond me.

Second, you are picking a nit where there is not one to be picked. Like I said before, there are reams of documentation dating back to Mein Kampf that show Hitler was not just aware of the atrocities committed by his functionaries, he fully sanctioned them. Picking apart nuances of a speech by Himmler in an attempt to spin that there was some kind of communication breakdown between the SS and the Reich Chancellery is weapons grade stupid. The point is that Himmler felt confident enough to make a speech in front of a bunch of fellow Nazis admitting the real purpose of the mass deportations of Jews.

Lastly, the Wannsee Conference is but one piece of a gigantic puzzle that took the prosecutors at Nuremberg over a year to assemble. I'm not about to research that entire mountain of evidence just to prove a point that should be obvious to anyone with a fucking brain. That Hitler was a hands on manager is obvious. His desire to micromanage everything allowed the Allies to gain a foothold in Normandy because he had to personally order the release of reserve Panzer divisions. He was so hands on that he personally accompanied the SS when it was time to arrest Ernst Rhom. Yet you would argue that there is a question as to whether or not Hitler knew of the single most notorious and revolting policy initiative of his entire career?

What are you babbling about?

Does AIPAC hold a grotesquely disproportionate degree of power over U.S. media and foreign policy...or not...?

Stop babbling and start thinking... :wink:

WW

Toddowen wrote:

BSmack wrote: HE FUCKING KNEW. And if you don't get that or try to use weasel words like "it gets tricky assigning blame", then you are a fucking moron.

I don't know. I wasn't there, so I can't say for sure if he knew. None of us can with absolute certainty.

How can any of us be certain of it?

Great take, Tardd.

The systematic extermination of undesirables in Nazi Germany just happened by accident. It was pure coincidence that train load after train load of Jews just happened to stop at death camps which spontaneously appeared all over eastern Europe in Nazi occupied territory for no particular reason. Once there, clothing and valuables just dropped off by strange mischance and then they tripped and fell into showers which were inadvertently supplied with hydrogen cyanide rather than the delousing compound that was supposed to have been there. Fortunately these death camps were all equipped with industrial crematoria which had been installed by a private contractor due a serendipitous snafu in the paperwork.

Yep, all just a big ole co-inkydink.

BSmack wrote: Lastly, the Wannsee Conference is but one piece of a gigantic puzzle that took the prosecutors at Nuremberg over a year to assemble.

The Wannsee Conference is all that exists on paper, that's what counts - that's the only reason anyone talks about it and it's fuck all compared to what's thrown on Hitler's shoulders and he won't complain, he's dead, right?
Don't confuse propaganda tracts and drunken speeches with evidence. They did that at Nuremberg and German officers were regularly hung - then five minutes later their widows were getting 'sorry' notes and a big fat paycheque. Nuremberg was a foregone conclusion, just look at the prosecutors. Lawyers make cases, students of history try and understand them.
You'd be surprised at how little a political figure actually knows about what's going on around him.

Toddowen wrote: So Hitler was responsible for all this? Running the railroads, the logsitcs of moving all the Jews, the zyclon B showers, the creamatoriums? He was the master designer?

Of course. He micromanaged everything else in the Third Reich down to the smallest detail. What makes you think that underlings who wouldn't dare to fart without his say so would commandeer the manpower, rolling stock and the other resources necessary to make it happen?

mvscal wrote:
Of course. He micromanaged everything else in the Third Reich down to the smallest detail. What makes you think that underlings who wouldn't dare to fart without his say so would commandeer the manpower, rolling stock and the other resources necessary to make it happen?

I think a decent analogy - would be the way Rumsfeld personally ordered every closeted American of male, military barracks culture to stumble upon an Iraqi jail full of other guys and instruct them to fuck everyone in the ass and take pics.

...uh, yeah. That's an awesome analogy except for the fact that the Holocaust really happened and your gay jerkoff fantasy did not.

No, Avi, the American guards were sodomizing the Iraqi suspects with impunity. The pics were real. As for your hysterical pissing into the wind concerning some kind of Holocaust Denial, why are you wasting our time? Stone simply pointed out the obvious--that AIPAC and its minions have used a grotesquely disproportionate amount of leverage in controlling our media and government. Any dispute (by the hack who's on record insisting there's no water shortage or Climate Change)? Of course not.

BTW, the tide is turning faster than you think!

British Prime Minister David Cameron called Gaza a "prison camp" on Tuesday, a blunt description from a major Western leader about the besieged Palestinian territory.

Cameron made the remarks in the Turkish capital of Ankara, which he was visiting to forge a new relationship with Turkey and show his support for Turkish membership in the European Union.

"Let me also be clear that the situation in Gaza has to change. Humanitarian goods and people must flow in both directions. Gaza cannot and must not be allowed to remain a prison camp," Cameron said, according to a transcript of the speech provided by his office.

WW

LTS TRN 2 wrote:No, Avi, the American guards were sodomizing the Iraqi suspects with impunity.

Wrong.

You pathetic little punk. How long can you continue to look in the mirror? Even Goebbels committed suicide!

Major General Antonio Taguba has stated that there is photographic evidence of rape being carried out by American military personnel at Abu Ghraib. An Iraqi teenage boy was raped by a uniformed man while photos of it were taken by a female US military police. The alleged rapist was identified by a witness as an American-Egyptian who worked as a translator, and who is now the subject of a civil court case in the US.Another photo shows an American soldier apparently raping a female prisoner. Other photos show sexual assaults on prisoners with objects including a truncheon, wire and a phosphorescent tube, and a female prisoner having her clothing forcibly removed to expose her breasts. Taguba has supported President Obama's decision not to release the photos, stating, “These pictures show torture, abuse, rape and every indecency.”

In other alleged cases, female inmates were said to be raped by soldiers. . In one reported case, senior US officials admitted rape had taken place at Abu Ghraib.

And this is just a sampling of the slim peek that was leaked by some patriotic American with a conscience. Unlike a putrid coward such as yourself.

LTS TRN 2 wrote: "Let me also be clear that the situation in Gaza has to change. Gaza cannot and must not be allowed to remain a prison camp," Cameron said, according to a transcript of the speech provided by his office.[/b]

Hopefully, what he was trying to say was that the terrorist enclave of Jordanians and other assorted middle east mutts that reside in gaza, will not be allowed to remain a prison camp but instead just an old fashioned graveyard....

KC Scott wrote:It's been written that Himmler was actually the architecht of the Final Solution - which Hitler vigorously endorsed.

Himmler was also the overseer of the operation.

There were a few "architects" at work. One has to give Heydrich his fair share of the credit as well as Eichmann. And of course Himmler was the head of the SS and therefore the departmental head most directly connected. But in the final analysis the Holocaust was Hitler's brainchild. The nuts and bolts of how the machinery of death operated were what the other Nazis contributed.

The Seer wrote:

LTS TRN 2 wrote: "Let me also be clear that the situation in Gaza has to change. Gaza cannot and must not be allowed to remain a prison camp," Cameron said, according to a transcript of the speech provided by his office.[/b]

Hopefully, what he was trying to say was that the terrorist enclave of Jordanians and other assorted middle east mutts that reside in gaza, will not be allowed to remain a prison camp but instead just an old fashioned graveyard....

No, that's not what he meant at all. Not at all. Rather, yours is the anxious seething fear of a small minded, shorted sighted, no attention span punk assed bigot.

Cameron is talking about the ghoulish and sadistic giant prison established by the ZioNazis--and maintained by American tax dollars.

Without Israel's artificial establishment 60 years ago, millions of Jews would still be living peacefully and productively throughout the Middle East--In Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Iran, Syria, Egypt, Lebanon, and Palestine. There would similarly have been no development of radical militant Muslim groups--and no budget busting fake wars. In other words we'd still be a rich nation with some respect in the world.

But, no...you'd rather have a fake hyper-military race state which hysterically starts wars, carries out massacres, and flaunts international law while pretending to be a "modern democracy"? One which laughs at how easily it manipulates the U.S. government--thanks in no small part to the legions of pathetic bible thumping Christers? You'd rather have the entire region hating us so that a Russian retirement center can be maintained by way of brutal apartheid state measures?

Cameron is dealing with reality. What's your excuse?

WW

One way to endear oneself to the New York fan base

L'chaim, muthafuckas...


JERUSALEM -- Amare Stoudemire already knows some Hebrew phrases and sports a Star of David tattoo. Now he's come to Israel to explore what might be his Jewish heritage.

The five-time NBA All-Star who recently signed with the New York Knicks is on a weeklong visit to learn about Israel, its language and religions. He believes he has "Hebrew roots" through his mother, Carrie.

"She studied the Scriptures and history and she believes she is a Hebrew," he told The Associated Press Friday in Jerusalem. "I grew up in a very spiritual home. It's not about religion, it's about spirituality for me."

Stoudemire said he was "soaking up the culture" with his girlfriend and a few other friends from home.

He has long suspected his Jewish lineage -- Judaism is passed down through the mother's side. Stoudemire's agent, Happy Walters, said his client is a "student of history" and is "exploring religions in general."


Sho you right, I'm just as Jewrish as those folks in Crown Heights...I been studying!


(actually, she does look like a lot of those Beverly Hills yenta types)

See you in Israel!