Turner Gill

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

I don't see that this has been posted yet, which is kind of a shocker in itself.

NDSU 6
KU 3

What in the hell is that? A lot of people on here (myself included) were hyping him as a good hire.

[Mace]

The cupboards must have been bare when Gill arrived, but losing to NDSU? The pundits who picked Iowa State to finish dead last in the B12 North might like to reevaluate their picks.

[Dinsdale]

Only B12 loss (so far).

[King Crimson]

fat man made a career off todd reesing and dez briscoe but they gone and KU (mistyped KY, heh) lost their last 6 in a row last year and only won 2 conf games.

one game does not a bad hire make....but an L to a directional school in a directional state.....eeeeesh.

[War Wagon]

Actually, they lost their last 7 in a row last year... not that anyone was counting. Gotta' love their starting QB's name. Kale Pick.

Hey, Late Night At The Phog is only 6 weeks away, so at least the beaker faithful have that going for them.

There's a certain truck driver who delivers metal to our dock who's going to be trying real hard to avoid me for awhile.

[King Crimson]

Gotta' love their starting QB's name. Kale Pick.

yeah, that's not ideal is it? the best QB in the last decade from Kansas HS commited to OU last year. the phoggers have stolen enough OK HS hoopers over the last few year to make that feel OK with me. Blake Bell. 5 stars.

[Dinsdale]

I thought I heard (too lazy to count for myself) that only 4(?) BCS conf. teams lost at home yesterday.

KU
Ole Masoli
Louisville
Vandy

Am I missing any?

[Bizzarofelice]

The pundits who picked Iowa State to finish dead last in the B12 North might like to reevaluate their picks.

how could someone pick the Buffs over Iowa St.?

[indyfrisco]

Can't remember what school was "racist" for not hiring Turner Gill. Some helpe please?

Maybe they knew that he wasn't worth a shit.

[Bizzarofelice]

and most of these are still Mangino's recruits. Dez Briscoe is gone and the mediocre QB is gone, but enough players remain from a decent team that there is no reason to lose so poorly to a DIV II team.

[M Club]

Can't remember what school was "racist" for not hiring Turner Gill. Some helpe please?

Maybe they knew that he wasn't worth a shit.

are you talking about the discussion held in here when auburn hired a 5-19 coach?

[M Club]

that thread's here, for reference. i particularly like the part where you said you wish you'd gotten gill instead. hahahahaha.

it's interesting to see how things pan out compared to what everyone initially thought, specifically how prescient the noj was w/r/t chizik. but at the time it was perfectly justifiable to wonder not necessarily why gill was passed over for the job but why he was passed over for a proven loser. obviously chizik seems to be working out, and gill we still don't know about gill despite his one game at kansas, but at the time one had demonstrated an ability to win a few football games while the other was the merely beneficiary of the good ol' boys affirmative action hiring network.

[M Club]

jesus you're fucking sensitive. i have animosity towards posts, not people. some threads you're a dick stopper and others we're having a conversation. my contribution to this thread was entirely cordial.

i'll explain my post though: hahahahaha, we're all so knowledgeable about football (myself included) yet that thread was just about everyone saying chizik wtf except for the noj (who was right about the hire) and indy (who was going on about gill possibly getting a job if he wasn't such a lazy fuck). i remember mvscal contributed some of his usual hypocritical insight, though i don't know why it was deleted.


further explanation:

obviously chizik seems to be working out...

that looks like we agree about things changing, but feel free to make your point as if i said anything to the contrary.


as for this:

Why didn't Michigan hire Gill?

your rhetorical ploy throughout that entire thread was every team without a black coach was racist. rodriguez's resume justified his hire over a theoretically-available gill; chizik's didn't, which gives obvious grist to racist speculation.

as for the hire, i'll tell you more after this year considering it's the first time in dickrod's tenure we have a roster comprised of mostly big 10-caliber players, at least offensively. i still don't know of a coach who was going to do much with nick sheridan at qb.

[Terry in Crapchester]

Taking the three coaches in MClub's and shutyomouth's discussion one at a time, from the perspective of when the hires in question were made:

DickRod: One of the biggest up-and-coming names in college football coaching. Lest we forget, 'Bama made a run at him before "settling" for Saban. It didn't surprise me that Michigan made a run at him, although it surprised me somewhat that he accepted, given that he was coaching his alma mater and he already had rejected the 'Bama job.

Gill: Not nearly in the same stratosphere as DickRod, but a guy who had done enough to warrant moving up on the coaching foodchain. Again lest we forget, Buffalo was clearly a Bottom 5 program among 1-A schools when Gill took over.

Chizik: Only head coaching experience was a disastrous tenure at Iowa State. Objectively, it didn't look to me like he'd ever get a college head coaching job again.

I won't go so far as to use the r-word in describing Auburn's hire of Chizik from the perspective of the time, but it's quite clear that it wasn't a strictly objective analysis in deciding between Chizik and Gill. Chizik obviously benefitted from his connections to the good ol' boys network at Auburn.

And while we're on the topic, let me throw out another school which, at the time, at least should have considered Gill for a vacancy: Syracuse. At Syracuse, he would've been able to recruit the same area of the country he had been recruiting already at Buffalo, only with access to better players. And Gill at least had a track record that warranted moving up. By contrast, the guy Syracuse ultimately hired was little more than a younger version of the guy they got rid of: a career NFL assistant with little or no college experience and no head coaching experience.

All of that being said, the Chizik hire seems to be working out reasonably well for Auburn so far, so good for them. This year, of course, is a crucial year for DickRod at Michigan, and obviously, it's way too early to tell about Gill, although his debut doesn't appear to bode terribly well.

[indyfrisco]

That would be Auburn. I thought about that as soon as I saw the score. But, as mentioned already, one loss doesn't mean he can't coach.

Auburn. That's it. I do think he can coach and coach well, but I'm not sure how successful he is going to be at Kansas. With all these conference changes taking place, and I don't think we're done yet, Kansas may be left out in the cold. Like you, I just saw that losing score against a high school caliber team and remembered all the handwringers throwing out the race card because he wasn't hired.

[Killian]

i remember mvscal contributed some of his usual hypocritical insight, though i don't know why it was deleted.

mvscunt commented after Gill was hired at KU.

[King Crimson]

2 - Auburn knew what they were getting in Chizik. He had built them a monster defense previously. And Pat Dye wanted Chizik.

GC also had a NC ring from 05 Texas.

[M Club]

i remember mvscal contributed some of his usual hypocritical insight, though i don't know why it was deleted.

mvscunt commented after Gill was hired at KU.

he was couching his disdain for all things negroid in win-loss records, which is funny considering he was in the main forum some time later defending some cracker hc as hof worthy even though whitey had a pedestrian w-l record of his own.

[M Club]

2 - Auburn knew what they were getting in Chizik. He had built them a monster defense previously. And Pat Dye wanted Chizik.

GC also had a NC ring from 05 Texas.

as a head coach?

[King Crimson]

2 - Auburn knew what they were getting in Chizik. He had built them a monster defense previously. And Pat Dye wanted Chizik.

GC also had a NC ring from 05 Texas.

as a head coach?

no but the difference in UT's D from the early 00's (Bull Reese as DC--when they gave up 60 to OU twice) and Chizik was night and day. Muschamp is likely to succeed Mack, and he's got on HC experience. Chizik was on the fast track, taking the ISU job was a bit of a baffler in the big picture.

[M Club]

i'm just pointing out the normal trajectory from assistant to head coach. obviously chizik was putting together great defenses, which earned him his shot at hc. failing usually means a return to coordinating, not a better job. i mean, ja, it's worked out pretty well for auburn so far; i'm just pointing out why it was understandable at the time to be all "wtf?"

[indyfrisco]

I was "wtf?" at the time, but it had nothing to do with the color of his or Gill's skin. It had more to do with both of their records as HC which was not stellar. However, the defenses Chizik put together at different places and the success those teams had under his defenses trumped what Gill had accomplished. That's my opinion at least. That along with his previous history with Auburn was why he was hired I believe, not because of a "good ole boy notwork."

This person can get fucked:

[Mace]

Oftentimes, a coaching hire is simply a matter of being the right fit for both the coach and the school. Chizik was not the right fit for Iowa State and most folks taking an objective look at the hire knew it from the beginning, and that Chizik was looking to build a resume so he could find a bigger program. On the other hand, Paul Rhoads was a perfect fit for the Cyclones and, after inheriting the mess left by Chizik, took them to a bowl game in his first year. Rhoads grew up a few miles from Ames and grew up a Cyclone fan, and he truly feels honored to be their head coach. There's an old coaching axiom that "players don't care about how much you know until they know how much you care". Rhoads cares, and the players know it...and play their asses off for him. Chizik didn't, and the players knew it. Both of these coaches will probably be successful in their current jobs, with Chizik having the most upside due to being at Auburn.

I think the jury is still out on Gill, and I'm not close enough to the Kansas program to know whether he's the right fit. I do know that he got off to an embarrassing start last weekend and it will take some serious coaching to overcome that loss and the attitude that comes with those types of losses.

[Carson]

... On the other hand, Paul Rhoads was a perfect fit for the Cyclones ... took them to a bowl game in his first year.

Ya think two years of Chizik's recruiting had anything to do with that?

[indyfrisco]

Chizik will be at Auburn until he is fired or puts together two good years in a row before taking the next gig.

[Mace]

... On the other hand, Paul Rhoads was a perfect fit for the Cyclones ... took them to a bowl game in his first year.

Ya think two years of Chizik's recruiting had anything to do with that?

Of course, somewhat anyway, but not as much as not having Texas and Oklahoma on last year's schedule.....just like in Chizik's second and final season. ISU could actually be a better team this year and have a worse record due to trips to Norman and Austin.

[indyfrisco]

Terry - how does this guy fit into the "good ole' boy network"?

Well, he does look half white so I'd say halfway?

[indyfrisco]

10 schools off the top of my head Chizik would switch dicks for in a heartbeat...

Texas, Florida, Oklahoma, Notre Dame, Michigan, USC, Nebraska, Alabama, Penn St., Ohio St.

[Terry in Crapchester]

Terry - how does this guy fit into the "good ole' boy network"?

I guess you'll have to explain to me how, exactly, that's relevant to what we've been discussing in this thread.

[indyfrisco]

Hell, it is my understanding that before Tubberville was canned at Auburn, he was courted by A&M for the Fran opening and would have taken it had it been offered.

As for the other schools being secure with their current situaton? This "what have you done for me lately" attitude in BTPCFB has spread. I didn't think Tubberville should have been canned. I WANTED Tubberville over Sherman at A&M. Any coach is easily enticed to check the waters in the NFL. Any coach is easily enticed with their hottie interns and a scandal is all it takes to boot one. Muschamp may get sick and tired of waiting since Mack said he'd be out by now. dickrod is on the hot seat. Lots of scenarios could happen to open any of these jobs.

[minorthreat]

Oftentimes, a coaching hire is simply a matter of being the right fit for both the coach and the school. Chizik was not the right fit for Iowa State and most folks taking an objective look at the hire knew it from the beginning, and that Chizik was looking to build a resume so he could find a bigger program. On the other hand, Paul Rhoads was a perfect fit for the Cyclones and, after inheriting the mess left by Chizik, took them to a bowl game in his first year. Rhoads grew up a few miles from Ames and grew up a Cyclone fan, and he truly feels honored to be their head coach. There's an old coaching axiom that "players don't care about how much you know until they know how much you care". Rhoads cares, and the players know it...and play their asses off for him. Chizik didn't, and the players knew it. Both of these coaches will probably be successful in their current jobs, with Chizik having the most upside due to being at Auburn.

I think the jury is still out on Gill, and I'm not close enough to the Kansas program to know whether he's the right fit. I do know that he got off to an embarrassing start last weekend and it will take some serious coaching to overcome that loss and the attitude that comes with those types of losses.

I agree with the Chizik analysis. The other thing that has helped Chizik at Auburn is he learned that he had to bring in good coordinators. He did not do that at ISU. I had a lot of faith in him when he was here but I am glad he is gone now. Overall it seems that it has worked out for both ISU and Auburn so far. Auburn just has to make sure they keep Malzahn...in my opinion.

[minorthreat]

... On the other hand, Paul Rhoads was a perfect fit for the Cyclones ... took them to a bowl game in his first year.

Ya think two years of Chizik's recruiting had anything to do with that?

Actually, Rhoads has recruited just as well as Chizik did.

[M Club]

However, the defenses Chizik put together at different places and the success those teams had under his defenses trumped what Gill had accomplished. That's my opinion at least.

chizik was wildly successful as a coordinator but crashed and burned as a head coach. textbook peter principle. gill had a shitty w-l record in part because he took on so many losses just by taking the buffalo job. granted and again: hindsight.

That along with his previous history with Auburn was why he was hired I believe, not because of a "good ole boy notwork."

eh, his history with auburn was what put him in the ole boy network.

This person can get fucked:

so can these people:

[Carson]

Hell, it is my understanding that the year before Tuberville was canned at Auburn, he courted A&M for the Fran opening and would have taken it had it been offered.

FTFY; Gene Stallings wanted no part of The Wingnut.

[indyfrisco]

Buffalo was a bottom feeder in the MAC. Iowa St. is a bottom feeder in the XII. Neither were going to have a good record as a HC in the time they spent there.

But feel free to have fun on your mountaintop...



I'll be laughing.

[M Club]

ja, except one actually went so far as to turn their bottom feeder into the conference champion.

have fun in your heavily fortified castle, with double-padlocked doors and a moat, not to mention whatever other siege precautions you take when the blacks are a coming. i'll be laughing.

[indyfrisco]

when the blacks are a coming. i'll be laughing.

Both blacks in town? One's a police officer and one's a doctor. Only time they'll bust through my door is if I'm under arrest or my heart is. Either way, I don't think either scenario is very funny, but I don't hold anything against you if you want to laugh at either situation. It's your constitutional right, and I'm not one to wipe my ass with the constitution like some.

[M Club]

eh, who's wiping their ass with the constitution? you didn't seem to be so up on arms about it two years ago.

[M Club]

and two black in your town? sounds like the start of a good ol' "my black friend says..."

[indyfrisco]

Well, 2 black families....both men are married to the mother of their children, own a home and pay their taxes. Amazing concept.