T1B

Mrs. Rumps will be getting her new SUV within a few months, so the F150 will be turned back over to me very soon as our third vehicle.

I just started a two year project with the truck. My first action was to add some power. I made the mistake in going with a 4.6L V8 instead of Ford's 5.4 when I bought the truck, but it'll have to do.

I first added a Magnaflow exhaust SI/DO (single in/dual out). Afterall, a V8 should sound like a V8, right?

I then added a custom Cool Air Intake kit to it.



I also bought a tuner for it and reprogrammed it for more HP.

I got about 3-5 from the exhaust, 7-10 from the CAI, and 15 from the tuner giving me a 25HP gain. The difference is great, but I still want to change the mechanical fan for electric fans which will give me another 5-10 more HP bringing the mods up to a total of 30-35HP gain.

After I get the fans in (January target), I plan on giving the outside of the truck a facelift. Here are the things I have planned over the next year or so...

Billet Grille
3" ReadyLift Leveling Kit
33" Nitto Grappler tires with 17" Black Ion Wheels
Roll&Lock Bed cover
All Black Nerf Bars
Upgrade Stereo System

Anyone else toy with this shit?

Yeah I do all that crap, but on cars. Just recently upgraded the stereo in my daily (08 Toyota 4 Runner) and my toy (91 Mustang) along with a new new motor.

Rumps, don't forget to get a underdrive pulley set for it....you'll see an EASY 2-3mpg better and at least 10hp.

If all else fails and the mods you've done still aren't enough:



Just sayin'... :twisted:

How old are you guys, 17?

For the life of me, I will never get pickup hot rodder dude.

Going fast is fun, for sure. Hot rodding sports cars or even some larger cars, I get, but, taking a truck and trying to make it into a vette? At best, a heavily modded truck will be fairly quick in a straight line, but, it will handle as well as a decent car.

I will make one exception to the pickup hot rodder rule. Diesel mods make some sense as they are done to improve what a truck is designed to do, pull or carry shit. If you were a little brighter, you would have went with a one ton diesel, i'm kind of partial to the duramax as it is the only one i have experience with. i'll bet it would carry mrs rumps over the steepest mountain roads with only a 2 or 3 gear downshift from the allison tranny.

Screw_Michigan wrote:How old are you guys, 17?

He probably has these on the back......

Go Coogs' wrote:The difference is great, but I still want to change the mechanical fan for electric fans which will give me another 5-10 more HP

People still fall for that sales pitch?

I'm sure your mechanical fan has a clutch on it. So once you hit the gas pedal, the fan is freewheeling, and taking next-to-no horsepower to run. And those stupid claims of "X# of HP increase" never take into account the extra load on the alternator to run the electric fan... there is that... which factored in, gives you a net horsepower gain of... right around zero.

Paul wrote:Rumps, don't forget to get a underdrive pulley set for it....you'll see an EASY 2-3mpg better and at least 10hp.

Another sales pitch that tells only half the story... all well and good, as long as you're on the freeway all day. Around town, stoplight-to-stoplight (where you want the power increase)...


not so much.


I wish I had a dollar for every time I had to explain how silly the concept is back in my auto electrician days.

Yes, it takes less power to turn the alternator at a slower speed -- this much is true.

Changing the speed at which the alternator turns doesn't change a vehicle's electrical consumption one iota -- unless the company marketing the underdrive pullies has completely rewritten some basic scientific shit, and have figured out a way to get something for nothing, electrically, in which case they should probably be working on some green-energy project.

Newsflash -- it takes the exact same amount of energy (in this case, from the alternator via engine power) to run the vehicles electrical system, regardless of pully size. When you slow down the alternator, it won't keep up with the electrical demand at idle (no, seriously -- those guys designing the car actually put some thought into it). Instead, it dips into battery reserve... and as soon as you rev the engine...

are we following? Good.

As soon as you rev the engine, it loads the alternator to replace the charge in the battery.


To anyone with a brain and a basic understanding of this shit, this results in a horsepower/torque gain at idle, and a LOSS OFF THE LINE.

Period. All those laws of physics and thermodynamics and all that stuff all agree, 100%... because it's the only way that can work.

But it's a great marketing scam, though, and is useful on a track car. A daily, around-town driver?

That's just silly.

Dins, if there is no difference in the fans, then why is damn near every auto-maker switching to electric fans on their latest models?

there is a difference and slight gains in efficiency, but, as dins said, it sure the fukk ain't 10 hp or whatever it was that was quoted earlier.

automakers may be going to electric ones for easy of assembly, possibly even cost. i suspect they are doing it for the efficiency gain, but, it sure the fukk ain't 2-3 mpg.

dins, you are correct about under drive pulleys and alternators, but, you left out water pump, powersteering pump and AC compressor. going to UD pulleys lowers the speed at which they run, resulting in some sort of drop in power consumption. my take on them is they make sense in a modded car that will spend a fair bit of it's life north of 5K rpm where the benefits are more noticeable. if you spend a considerable amount of time flogging your f-150 like that, you are a fukking dumbass IMO.

Go Coogs' wrote:Dins, if there is no difference in the fans, then why is damn near every auto-maker switching to electric fans on their latest models?

Ahh..weight reduction....lower cost of manufacturing, and less time to install for starters ?

Rumps, for a guy who seems reasonably intelligent...


really?

Did you start drinking early, or what?


Uhm... just a thought...

But maybe... just maybe...

Uhm...


Maybe the reason 90%+ of all vehicles come equipped with electric fans, is that a FWD car looks pretty silly with a driveshaft sticking out the side of the cylinder head to run a mechanical fan.

Seriously?

But, I'd love to hear an explaination of how these scammers aftermarket companies have somehow found an end-around to those pesky Laws of Thermodynamics.


To move X amount of air across the fan, takes Y amount of energy/work.To supply A amount of electricity to the system, it takes B amount of energy/work. Period. But again, I'm all ears when it comes to a complete revision of the Laws.


But by all means, convert to electric fans and go with underdrive pullies on a street car truck. Makes perfect sense to run your fans off the charging system when you live in an extremely hot climate... keeps that battery working. Don't stop there, though -- by all means, go with underdrive pullies, so as to ensure that there's no way in hell your charging system can keep up at idle... pure brilliance. All those huge horsepower gains you make will almost offset the extra power you need to haul around your next purchase -- an auxiliary battery, which you'll definitely need. And nevermind that those underdrive pullies are now moving less water through your cooling system at idle -- it's not like you live in a hot climate.



Sounds like a complete disaster waiting to happen. I used to make good money fixing cars for dipshits with more dollars than sense. Mix in a 101 Level physics class before you start hanging parts on a car.

dude, are you fukking stupid or what?

the alternator will be making plenty of amps when he's redlining that bitch from stop light to stop light racing 17 year olds in their winged civics. and those extra 2-3 mpg will sure come in handy as it will just about double his mpg while driving in such a manner.

Roach wrote:Why stress out what Ford has fine tuned over the years.

Don't be silly -- fuck those guys at Ford with all them fancy-schmancy automotive engineering degrees. I mean, that pales in comparison to what the guy at the O'Reilly's with a winged Honda, bad acne, no girlfriend, and no high school diploma has to say.


"Free power" that only costs a few hunny at the parts store is FREE, dammit. Just because the Laws of Thermodynamics say it's bullshit, it doesn't mean it isn't true.

Dins, I'm not even going to pretend I know a lot about what you just said, but I do have questions.

If a VFD fan can be run on a cascade and/or automated setpoint program, then wouldn't the fan work less with the variable speed maintaining the setpoint at more of a baseline temperature? Wouldn't that generate more efficiency over time?

I'm just saying the alternator may take on more load with an electric fan, but the variable speed would reduce the load by maintaining a more accurate setpoint on the cooling.

With mechanical fans, its stop and go. With electrical vfd, its stop and 10%...20%...30%....etc. I could be completely off my rocker with that theory, but I always thoght on/off was less efficient than variable speed control.

Roach, my F150 will be our third (spare) vehicle when in buy mrs. Rumps an SUV next year. The mods are not to impress teenage girls as smacky put, but more for my personal preference as to what I want to do with some extra cash I have laying around. Some people buy season tcikets, eat out more, pay weekly visits to ucan't to gaze at his gerth, and other shit.

Me? I will have a truck that is five years old with 45000 miles on the odometer and will be driven probably once a week. I want to dress her up, so sue me.

You make a point -- except I'm not sure the make variable speed fans... although it wouldn't suprise me in the least. Just haven't worked on one (been out of the game a while now, thank goodness).

Generally just a thermostat in the radiator that shorts to ground at the set temp. I believe some (all?) OBD2 systems (everything since '96) use the ECM to run the fan.


Clutch fans are fairly efficient in their element... daily driving.

If you did cold air, reprogrammed, and opened up the exhaust, you did the major stuff. The rest amounts to chump change. Screw silly fans and other teenager tricks, and just do like Paul said... force that shit in there.

Or save the dough and buy a sports car.

If you want to tune a gas engine I would dump whatever POS you bought and call Mike at http://www.5startuning.com/. I got an X3 for my 6.8 V10 and it has done wonders. You can talk to him direct and he will sell you an X3 with 3 custom tunes and if you don't like them or want a change you just call him back and he will email you updates. Some of the best, most personal customer service I've experienced in a long time.

Roach wrote:I guess it's all in what you want. If you want your F-150 to go 160k miles or more without major repair, I'd say then do not fuck around with undersized pulleys, exahust and intake changes and the like. Why stress out what Ford has fine tuned over the years.

Wrong....wrong....and WRONG.

My dad's 1997 F150 standard cab long bed 2wd with the 4.6 V8 has a K&N cold air intake, March Performance underdrive pullies, a electric cooling fan from a 97 Lincoln Mark 8, a Hypertech 180 degree thermostat, and a Magnaflow single 3" cat-back exhaust system on it. He bought it at 80k miles, and I installed the aforementioned parts soon afterwards. Said F150 as of today now has 326K miles on it....before I modified it the gas mileage was right around 15mpg city/18mpg highway. After the mods and to this day it gets 18-19mpg city/23-25mpg highway. Oh, and I have modified my previous 3 full-size V8 trucks the same way as well (92 F150, 2000 F150, 2006 GMC Sierra) and they all picked up about the same in gas mileage.

All truck engines are choked by the factory intake and exhaust systems and prevent them from really running as good as they should.

Paul wrote:

Roach wrote:I guess it's all in what you want. If you want your F-150 to go 160k miles or more without major repair, I'd say then do not fuck around with undersized pulleys, exahust and intake changes and the like. Why stress out what Ford has fine tuned over the years.

Wrong....wrong....and WRONG.

My dad's 1997 F150 standard cab long bed 2wd with the 4.6 V8 has a K&N cold air intake, March Performance underdrive pullies, a electric cooling fan from a 97 Lincoln Mark 8, a Hypertech 180 degree thermostat, and a Magnaflow single 3" cat-back exhaust system on it. He bought it at 80k miles, and I installed the aforementioned parts soon afterwards. Said F150 as of today now has 326K miles on it....before I modified it the gas mileage was right around 15mpg city/18mpg highway. After the mods and to this day it gets 18-19mpg city/23-25mpg highway. Oh, and I have modified my previous 3 full-size V8 trucks the same way as well (92 F150, 2000 F150, 2006 GMC Sierra) and they all picked up about the same in gas mileage.

All truck engines are choked by the factory intake and exhaust systems and prevent them from really running as good as they should.

All gasoline ICEs are "choked" from the factory. It's called a throttle. It's what you are operating when you press on that pedal thingy on the floor inside.

Unchoking it will increase potential high rpm hp, assuming the rest of the engine's up to it. Of the mods you mention, i think the great majority of your gains is from the exhaust, but, i'm not quite buying that it got you from 18 to 23-25. Not saying that truck won't get 25, but you'd have to drive it at 42 mph everywhere with a tailwind.

and coogs, i think you should dump your money into whatever silly habit floats your boat and doesn't harm others. doesn't change the fact that i think it's retarded.

as for that variable fan dealio. that's a new one on me. i think it's a new one on others as well because it doesn't fukking exist. it makes much more sense to control a cooling fan simply by turning it on and off as needed. i am reasonably sure that is how it works. actually, there is a way of varying it. most cars today have more than one smaller electric fans and they achieve the variability by turning on as many as is needed.

did a bit of reading on UDPs. actually learned a thing or two.

one thing i learned was that some of the mongs doing this are frightfully lacking in mechanical aptitude.

one douche noted that the smaller alternator pulley caused his alternator to run too slowly to maintain a good charge. note to douche: smaller pulley on driven device=higher rpm of said device. smaller diameter of driving device (harmonic balancer)=lower rpm of driven devices.

another thing i learned was that in a UDP kit, the harmonic balancer AND the alternator pulley smaller, resulting in a more or less unchanged alternator speed. slowing down the water pump, AC comp. and PS pump are where you gain efficiency. this all pretty much makes sense.

this leads to the question dins asks, why didn't all those smart degreed fellers at the auto companies do it? there were some that said weak power steering and weak AC were the results, which pretty much answers that question.

as for mpg gains, there were mixed findings. some claimed 10-20 percent gains as does paul, some didn't. i think it depends a lot on particular vehicle and type of driving. if you spend a lot of time on the highway at a steady 2500 plus rpm, you'll reap a benefit without the penalties. if you are idling around town, you'll suffer the downsides with little benefit.

one thing is for certain. if you are hotrodding an f-150, you're a douche. but, it's you're dime and being a douche is still legal.

smackaholic wrote:Of the mods you mention, i think the great majority of your gains is from the exhaust, but, i'm not quite buying that it got you from 18 to 23-25. Not saying that truck won't get 25, but you'd have to drive it at 42 mph everywhere with a tailwind.

What part of WRONG do you fail to understand? EVERY truck I've done those modifications to have responded exactly the way I said they did. My dad does a LOT of highway driving, so he sees 23-25mpg out of his all the time. It's not rocket science, folks...check out some of the truck enthusiasts' message boards like performancetrucks.net or F150online.com if you don't believe me. Hell, they're where I got the info to do those mods.

Screw_Michigan wrote:How old are you guys, 17?

Trolling for your next sexual conquest ??

Derron wrote:

Screw_Michigan wrote:How old are you guys, 17?

Trolling for your next sexual conquest ??

Radio is on Derron. Come on down.

Dinsdale wrote:
But, I'd love to hear an explaination of how these scammers aftermarket companies have somehow found an end-around to those pesky Laws of Thermodynamics.

We are constantly trying to change the Laws of Physics. Maybe we should have a look at these Thermodynamic laws you speak of.

Sin,

Portland Bicycle Faggot Rider

Paul wrote:

smackaholic wrote:Of the mods you mention, i think the great majority of your gains is from the exhaust, but, i'm not quite buying that it got you from 18 to 23-25. Not saying that truck won't get 25, but you'd have to drive it at 42 mph everywhere with a tailwind.

What part of WRONG do you fail to understand? EVERY truck I've done those modifications to have responded exactly the way I said they did. My dad does a LOT of highway driving, so he sees 23-25mpg out of his all the time. It's not rocket science, folks...check out some of the truck enthusiasts' message boards like performancetrucks.net or F150online.com if you don't believe me. Hell, they're where I got the info to do those mods.

if your dad does a shit load of highway driving and keeps his foot out of it, maybe he can squeeze 25 out of the f-150. but, i doubt the mods you mentioned got him from 18 to 25. 22 or 23 to 25? yeah, i'll buy that. 18 to 25 is close to a 40% increase. whatever the increase is, i suspect the exhaust mods are responsible for the lion's share of it. the udp would be next. a CAI, on a modern EFI engine will do jack shit IMO for fuel economy. any increase in airflow through it means he'll run with the throttle slightly less open. the O2 sensors will see that the correct fuel/air ratio is maintained.

while i was reading up on CAIs i actually came across an odd comment, but, it does make sense. this dude said that running a CAI in cold weather may actually be detrimental to efficiency. his reasoning is that very cold dense air is richer in O2 which means you run with the throttle more closed which increases pumping losses. if what he says is so (and it is) a CAI may actually decrease mileage at cruising speeds.

i guess we'll have to run this by our own resident dr science, mikey and get the skinny on it. note, that is the first and last time you will see me use skinny and mikey in the same sentence.

smackaholic wrote:and coogs, i think you should dump your money into whatever silly habit floats your boat and doesn't harm others. doesn't change the fact that i think it's retarded.

Well...that's like your opinion, man.

as for that variable fan dealio. that's a new one on me. i think it's a new one on others as well because it doesn't fukking exist.

Oh really.

http://www.flex-a-lite.com/auto/html/vsc.html

You can go kill yourself now, smacky.

As for me, maybe I won't get the electrical fans because the amount of driving I will do on the truck won't be worth it. Although, that big fucking eyesore shroud in the front has got to go. The elctric fans give you a ton more space for engine dress up. It won't save me money, but as you mentioned it's MY money.

As for UPDs, everything I've read is that they work for trucks that drive a lot of miles, but only if the UDP you buy is high end and not cheaply manufactured. Not only that, but the belt tension must be right or you'll fuck up a lot of shit on your motor.

i am not surprised that some asshat has come up with a variable speed deal in an attempt to separate chumps from their cash. my point was, i had never heard of an OEM one.

smackaholic wrote:if your dad does a shit load of highway driving and keeps his foot out of it, maybe he can squeeze 25 out of the f-150. but, i doubt the mods you mentioned got him from 18 to 25. 22 or 23 to 25? yeah, i'll buy that. 18 to 25 is close to a 40% increase. whatever the increase is, i suspect the exhaust mods are responsible for the lion's share of it. the udp would be next. a CAI, on a modern EFI engine will do jack shit IMO for fuel economy. any increase in airflow through it means he'll run with the throttle slightly less open. the O2 sensors will see that the correct fuel/air ratio is maintained.

Hey, frankly I don't have any reason to lie about it- I'm just telling you guys the gains in horsepower and fuel mileage that I'm experiencing with those modifications. They're real, or else I wouldn't spend the time and money to do the things necessary to attain them.

while i was reading up on CAIs i actually came across an odd comment, but, it does make sense. this dude said that running a CAI in cold weather may actually be detrimental to efficiency. his reasoning is that very cold dense air is richer in O2 which means you run with the throttle more closed which increases pumping losses. if what he says is so (and it is) a CAI may actually decrease mileage at cruising speeds.

I've seen some newer vehicles that actually trip the Service Engine Soon light in colder weather with a CAI installed. My neighbor has a 08 Trailblazer SS that I installed a CAI on for him soon after he bought it brand new, and as soon as the temps dropped under 40 degrees the SES light popped on. He took it into the Chevy dealer and they knew right away why. Instead of removing the CAI though, he had a local guy that computer-tunes late-model GM cars/trucks plug into it and reset the A/F tables. The SES light hasn't came back on since, as far as I know.

Paul wrote:Hey, frankly I don't have any reason to lie about it- I'm just telling you guys the gains in horsepower and fuel mileage that I'm experiencing with those modifications. They're real, or else I wouldn't spend the time and money to do the things necessary to attain them.

Paul. Nobody is saying that you are dishonest. They are saying that you are stupid. There's a difference.

BSmack wrote:

Paul wrote:Hey, frankly I don't have any reason to lie about it- I'm just telling you guys the gains in horsepower and fuel mileage that I'm experiencing with those modifications. They're real, or else I wouldn't spend the time and money to do the things necessary to attain them.

Paul. Nobody is saying that you are dishonest. They are saying that you are stupid. There's a difference.

They have a right to their opinion, no matter how wrong it is.