T1B

Diego was repeatedly making references to me being [It'sHorrible!]a Christian[/It'sHorrible] - and naming me Phelpstart, so I decided to throw Fred Phelps up there for him to look at.
Then I dropped into chat last night and one of the chatters, a board 'pal' of mine for a decade, said, "That avatar is perfect for you, pops."

Truthfully, to some degree, I'm pretty sure he meant that.
Yes, because this is ONE very common perception people have of Christians these days.
The hateful wingnut.

But the Gospel is love, I am fully convicted that it is the ONLY answer for us, and I will continue to direct my life toward the ministry of the core Gospel Word.

The perception that I am anything like Fred Phelps makes me shudder.

I will lose the Phelps avatard soon, because the truth of the matter is that I detest him.
But the Cul de Smack is my playground - so I enjoyed displaying him under my name.


There is a fundamental theological reason why Christians are viewed in negative stereotypical ways.
And there are also reasons, brought on by the behavior of Christians themselves, why we are viewed negatively.

In large percentages, 'the church' was moved to align themselves with a certain political party toward the late 1980s.
Much church energy has been directed toward trying to advance certain social goals, and when looking at the current state of the church in America (and most places), it is just simply in VERY serious condition.

In overwhelming percentages, it has lost it's focus - due to losing hold of the Covenant.
Losing hold of the Covenant is a recurring theme throughout church history.

But God ALWAYS performs a restoration.
Romans 11:4.

THAT is where my heart is - basic restoration and reformation of the fundamentally important CORE of the Gospel.


Those with interest, read again Matthew 17:1-9.
http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv ... te=4380943

The current church is, overwhelmingly, making tabernacles to Moses (legalism of some form) and/or Elias (mysticism of some kind).

It is failure, and absolutely so.
Only Christ works.
That is the Covenant.

Paul saw it accurately when he wrote in Colossians 2:2-3, "Christ; In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge."



Critical Gospel Core?
1,2,3,4,5.
Read them, understand them... whoever will.

Genesis 3:15
Isaiah 7:14
Galatians 4:3-4
Matthew 16:16
1 John 3:8

poptart wrote:The current church is, overwhelmingly, making tabernacles to Moses (legalism of some form) and/or Elias (mysticism of some kind).

I'm not sure I completely understand this statement.

Legalism and Mysticism are riddled with pitfalls and take the focus off of Christ ? That's what I'm guessing.

Tom In VA wrote:

poptart wrote:The current church is, overwhelmingly, making tabernacles to Moses (legalism of some form) and/or Elias (mysticism of some kind).

I'm not sure I completely understand this statement.

Legalism and Mysticism are riddled with pitfalls and take the focus off of Christ ? That's what I'm guessing.

I don’t know. His new avatar is a pretty mystical looking chipmunk.

To be honest, at first glance I assumed it was a blind squirrel.

Tom In VA wrote:

poptart wrote:The current church is, overwhelmingly, making tabernacles to Moses (legalism of some form) and/or Elias (mysticism of some kind).

I'm not sure I completely understand this statement.

Legalism and Mysticism are riddled with pitfalls and take the focus off of Christ ? That's what I'm guessing.

I know exactly what poptart is talking about.

Christianity is being folded back into it's Judaic roots. First, Jesus is dropped...

You wanted Judeo-Christian this-and-that? You got it.

Tom In VA wrote:

poptart wrote:The current church is, overwhelmingly, making tabernacles to Moses (legalism of some form) and/or Elias (mysticism of some kind).

I'm not sure I completely understand this statement.

Legalism and Mysticism are riddled with pitfalls and take the focus off of Christ ? That's what I'm guessing.

Yes, that's basically it.

A short post to elaborate...

The Bible hit a climax point in Matthew 16:13-20 when Jesus asked His disciples, "Who do people say that I am?"
They gave Him some answers and then He asked them, "Who do YOU say that I am?"
Peter popped up and confessed his realization that, "You are the Christ, the son of the living God."

Jesus said, yes, and that God had revealed this to Peter and that His chuch would be built upon those who have this fundamental realization and confession - that Jesus is the Christ.

The entire Bible is about Christ, and all that God will accomplish ---> is accomplished through Christ.


Looking at Acts 2:41, we see that right after God gave his initial outpouring of the Holy Spirit (day of Pentecost), people heard Peter's testimony (Acts 2:14-41 - it's very interesting to read what he told them) that this man, Jesus, was the promised Christ of the Old Testament, and 3,000 were added to the church.

Do any churches add 3,000 people these days?
300?
30?
They're lucky to add 3.
In fact, most churches are dying, closing the doors, and selling their property.

Peter did the correct Word movement - and people lived.

What we have today are churches doing programs, using methods, going into politics, using legalism, and some doing 'Benny Hinn type' mysticism.




Genesis 3:7
And the eyes of them (Adam and Eve) both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.
FAIL

Genesis 3:21
Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins (blood sacrifice), and clothed them.
VICTORY

Thanks poptart.

I'm curious as to whether or not this is all part of "God's plan" though, i.e. exactly the way it's supposed to be.

One of the "mysteries" that baffles me still is, as a child I looked upon Judas with derision. As I grew older and became aware, I was nothing but a sinner myself, I began to see Judas differently. As a part in the overall plan. Had he not betrayed Christ, the prophecy would have gone unfullfilled.

Not sure where I'm heading with that as much as using it as an example of an action that, if I'm being judgemental rather than 'in line' with the will of the Lord, can be interepreted as something going wrong. When in reality, it way it was supposed to go down and Judas was merely filling out his duty within the plan.

Thoughts ?

I know what you mean, Tom.

There are many mysteries and many things not revealed to us in God's Word.
God has told us what He has chosen to tell us - and He is sovereign over all of His creation.

God gives His Word and His Word is fulfilled.
Certainly people are directly involved in this fulfillment - sometimes performing 'good' things and sometimes performing 'bad' things.

We're urged not to be judgemental of other people, and there can be a few reasons for this.
A person in the midst of 'bad' action is still something which God is sovereign over.


Could be a deep discussion because it is getting into free will vs. predestination.

Indeed a deep discussion.

The conversation triggered memories of the nuns telling us that Judas really messed up when he killed himself. That he could have atoned for his betrayal. Still leaves open, if someone was supposed to do it and it was him - what did he need to atone for ?

So going back to the "legalism" and "mysticism" as being somewhat of a distraction to what it's really all about - Christ.

Just what is - Christ ? And what are the practical applications of "believing on Him" ?

I mean there has to be more to it than waking up one day and saying "I've been saved by the blood of the lamb, Halleluah". It has to involve more than verbal professions, "feelings" and "attitudes" and must come down to some sort of action - like He mentioned in his parable of the sheep vs. goat and whatsoever you do to the least of my brethren ....".

Phelpstart

poptart wrote:The perception that I am anything like Fred Phelps makes me shudder.

I will lose the Phelps avatard soon, because the truth of the matter is that I detest him.

What if Phelps is right, though? Just look what happened to Sodom and Gomorrah. Maybe we are inviting God's Wrath when we practice tolerance for demented perverts.

Tom wrote:So going back to the "legalism" and "mysticism" as being somewhat of a distraction to what it's really all about - Christ.

Just what is - Christ ? And what are the practical applications of "believing on Him" ?

I mean there has to be more to it than waking up one day and saying "I've been saved by the blood of the lamb, Halleluah". It has to involve more than verbal professions, "feelings" and "attitudes" and must come down to some sort of action - like He mentioned in his parable of the sheep vs. goat and whatsoever you do to the least of my brethren ....".

I'll give a few thoughts.

What is Christ?

It's always puts things in focus if you go back to the beginning.

Genesis 3 - Man became separated from God, became captive to satan, and died spiritually.

Knowing that Adam's seed has become complete corrupted ---> and that it can only produce death, God overstepped it completely and promised the seed of the woman, which is Christ, the solution.


Then if you look at 1 Peter 1:23, you see this:

(Believers) Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Christ (seed of the woman in Genesis 3:15) is the incorruptible seed, by which believers have been born again.

Do we realize what the word incorruptible means?

If we do, we come to realize the PHENOMENAL status we have, and the PHENOMENAL assurance we have.

Once born again, we can NEVER face destruction.

I would consider the 'application' to be remembering, and thinking about (meditating on), this status, this word, this guarantee.
This is prayer, which is not a difficult thing.
Reading the Word - and/or listening to Gospel message, is also prayer.
It's connecting our heart with God - and helping us remember our status - pushing disbelief away.

All pitfalls and 'wrong' directions fundamentally come about, imo, from disbelief.

A few more thoughts...

Tom wrote:Just what is - Christ ? And what are the practical applications of "believing on Him" ?

Christ is the entity which has ALL power in heaven and earth - Matthew 28:18.
Given this, a person who does not pray in His name is a very foolish person, indeed.

There were three 'offices' in the Old Testament - and Christ is the final fulfillment of those.

Prophet: Showing the way to meet God - John 14:6.
Priest: The one-time and final sin atonement - Mark 10:45.
King: The One who has broken the authority satan has over man - 1 John 3:8.


Application:

What does God want to accomplish?

World evangelism is the answer - because the world (and all people) is covered in a darkness which can only be overcome by the Light which God has provided.
Isaiah 60:1-3.
John 1:1-12.
Genesis 1:2-3.

Jesus last Words - Matthew 28:16-20 and Acts 1:8.

Aligning one's self with this is where God pours out his blessings.

Thanks pop.

Answered my question, I think I understand it.

Let me sit on it for a few and I"ll get back to you.