High Speed Rail Proposal

[Go Coogs']

Biden unveiled a $53 billion proposal back in March for a National HSR system. Federal funding was sent to a few states to start planning and construction. Since then, some states funding has been allocated to different states because of public criticism. Recently, Florida Governor Rick Scott refused the funding all together saying the risk far outweighed the benefits.

I'm not a fan of Obama's Administration, but I'm a supporter of their efforts to upgrade our means of transportation. Japan, China, and Europe are major players in HSR systems and I was wondering why this has very little support or development in the US?

I remember a proposal here in Texas for the Texas-Trans Corridor which was a HSR System that included tollways for commericial trucks and passenger vehicles that covered 4000 miles of the state. The plan was to have lanes for the commerical vehicles, separate lanes for the passenger vehicles, tracks for freight and tracks for passnger lines. It was strongly backed by Perry, but he received very little support from State and local politicians. The plan had some traction for about eight years, but was finally scrapped earlier this year.

I suppose a maglev rail system would be pretty awesome in the northeast, California, Florida, and parts of the midwest as an alternative way to travel regionally. From what I've read, they have maglev systems out there that travel well over 300mph and their reliability is above 99%. A national maglev rail system would definitely create a ton of jobs over the next decade, but would the system be used here as much as it is being used in other countries. I think so.

Thoughts?

[Carson]

The railroad unions agree.

[BSmack]

If HSR rail came to Columbus, Ohio, it would fail. There is no subway or light rail system to support it. You'd get to a station and have to take a bus, rent a car or find some other way to get to your next local destination. I don't know much about the cities in Texas, but I do not recall seeing significant light rail or subways the last time I was there

There is plenty of light rail in the northeast costal areas. Biden uses it all the time. Maybe you heard? But I'm afraid that the light rail that used to predominate in Western NY was all gutted years ago. REAL farsighted. :doh:

[Screw_Michigan]

Who the hell is talking about putting a HSR line from NY to LA?

88, high speed rail would be most beneficial as a commuting method. If people can get from Chicago to SW MI in 90 minutes, they will build/buy homes in SW MI and help develop and revitalize sleepy areas.

[BSmack]

There is plenty of light rail in the northeast costal areas. Biden uses it all the time. Maybe you heard?

I did. That is why I said "HSR makes good sense in the northeast, where there are a lot of existing local passenger lines and a high population density, which are required for rail to make any sense." Maybe you read?

Sorry, I was actually ripping on Biden a little with that crack, not you. That said, although Biden's pimping of rail is more than a little over the top and quixotic, his heart is in the right place.

But I'm afraid that the light rail that used to predominate in Western NY was all gutted years ago. REAL farsighted. :doh:

What do you want, BSmack? In the 1950's and 1960's, passenger rail in this country was displaced by super-highways and the automobile. A lot of good union jobs were created by reason of the death of passenger rail. America chose the automobile and Europe didn't (or couldn't). So we have what we have and they have what they have.

We chose the automobile and Europe chose to tax the fuck out of gas and build mass transit everywhere possible. THAT is what happened. We could have done the same thing. But instead we chose to rip up millions of miles of existing infrastructure and replace it with Interstate Highways. All because Ike popped wood when he saw the Autobahn.

[Cuda]

Obama supports it?

IT MUST BE SOCIALISM, WE MUST DEFEAT IT TO SAVE THE UNION.

Sincerely,
Teapublicans

shut the fuck up, nitwit.

[Go Coogs']

Screwey nailed it.

I heard the other day Detroit's unemployment rate was near 50%. Of course, these people can't afford to live and work in Toronto or Chicago where there happen to be jobs. How many jobs? And are they good jobs? I don't know, but I'm sure the prospects are better on those two cities than anywhere in Michigan right now.

If you installed a maglev high speed rail system that traveled to and from Detroit to Chicago, Cleveland, Toronto, Buffalo, Indianapolis, etc., then maybe the unemployment rate would go down in Michigan. I've driven Detroit to Chicago...I think it was 5 hours roughly. Our average speed was probably somewhere in the neighborhood of 65mph for the trip. Bump that average speed up to 250mph and you've reduced the travel time from 5 hours to just 1 hour and the cost of travel is reduced significantly.

As for Texas, the same could be done here. A lot of people would LOVE to live in Austin and its surrounding areas only if there were jobs to be had in the industrial arena. If you told me I could get from Austin to Houston in 45 minutes, I'm all over that shit. In fact, my cousin had to do this for two years. He was a fireman for the Houston Fire Department, but his wife got a transfer to Austin and she was the bread winner of the family so they had to move. He only worked two sometimes three days a week at the station (and stayed there of course), but he made the shitty commute which took him over 3 hours one way every time. His life would've been a lot easier if HSR was an option for commuting.

Myself, I live in the Houston area but work in Beaumont. It's a 150 mile round trip for me and takes me roughly an hour and a half to to get to work depending on traffic. Even if I had to drive twenty minutes to a HSR station, I'd still get to Beaumont in 30 minutes from the station to station. You see where this is beneficial on a regional level, 88?

[indyfrisco]

You'd better get used to these types of images if we built a maglev here.

[Screw_Michigan]

Screwy suggests a HSR line connecting Chicago and SW Michigan. 90 minute commute, each way. That would only be 3 hours a day on the train. Now, add the additional time from these newly revitalized sleepy areas to the HSR station. Let's say its well-planned and efficient, and only 4 hours of a day are burned up on the total commute. Now, this is supposed to help the people who cannot afford to live in Chicago... But somewhere they will have the caysh for two 90-minute train rides on a HSR line each day, plus whatever it costs to park their car at the HSR station. Or maybe you are planning to build light rail or bus service to every home in the revitalized sleepy area too? You are seriously nuts, amigo.

You are obviously not familiar with how commuter rail works. Yes, that is EXACTLY how it works. 99% of riders on the VRE (Virginia), MARC (Maryland) and South Shore (Indiana) drive to parking lots, where they park their cars (FOR FREE) and get on the commuter rail. Yes, people burn up to 2 hours each way. There are lots of people who live in Michigan City, Indiana (a dump of all dumps) and commute to downtown Chicago every day. There are people who live in Milwaukee who work in Chicago. There are people who live in NE MD and work in Washington. ET FUCKING AL.

[Cuda]

You are obviously not familiar with how commuter rail works..

If you've seen one train wreck, you've seen them all

[Cuda]

Oh, wait... This is about updated 19th Century technology, isn't it?

maybe this is more appropriate

[Go Coogs']

Screwy and Coogs, puhleeze put down the crack pipe.

Take a deep breath and think this through.

Screwy suggests a HSR line connecting Chicago and SW Michigan. 90 minute commute, each way. That would only be 3 hours a day on the train. Now, add the additional time from these newly revitalized sleepy areas to the HSR station. Let's say its well-planned and efficient, and only 4 hours of a day are burned up on the total commute. Now, this is supposed to help the people who cannot afford to live in Chicago... But somewhere they will have the caysh for two 90-minute train rides on a HSR line each day, plus whatever it costs to park their car at the HSR station. Or maybe you are planning to build light rail or bus service to every home in the revitalized sleepy area too? You are seriously nuts, amigo.

And Coogs wants HRS from Houston to Beaumont. Beaumont has a population of about 120,000, give or take. It is about 90 miles from Houston. Coogs is going to drive 20 minutes to the Houston HSR station. Immediately, board his HSR train, which will depart the moment he steps on and deliver him to the Beaumont station 30 minutes later. Now, he has to get some form of transportation from the Beaumont HSR station to his place of work. Let's give him 20 minutes to walk from the train, board whatever magical transportation that is, and make the trip to his place of work. So, instead of a 90 minute drive from his house to his place of business, he has a 70 minute HSR odyssey each day. And how often do you think that HSR train will travel each day to the metropolis of Beaumont? Will it be every 5 minutes? Every hour? Once a day? How convenient will that be the day you need to work late or get home because your kid is sick at school or something?

I've travelled the European transit system. It is super cool. You can get off an airplane in any city, hop on a train and get to the train station, make connections, and get fairly close to your final destination without too much hassle. The trains are clean, and comfortable and safe. And there are a lot of them. But even taking an IC train makes little sense in Europe these days, with flights as cheap as they are.

Well, at some point its not about saving time, but more about saving money on cost of travel w/ fuel vs cost of travel with maglev technology. Beaumont is on its way to New Orleans from Houston, so I would see it as a stop along the way. And to answer your question of how to get to work once I arrived in Beaumont? Like you said, Beaumont is not a big city and most of the jobs are either downtown or on refinery road. I have plenty of coworkers on my shift who would pick me and it wouldn't be an inconvenience. In my case, its an isolated situation, but in my cousin's case his situation would be more prevalent among commuters.

And this, 88...

How convenient will that be the day you need to work late or get home because your kid is sick at school or something?

Really? People use the Park n' Ride commuter bus system here everyday. If their kid gets sick, then they obviously have a contingency in place in case that happens. You're talking as if everyone in America with children drive themselves to work on the off chance an emergency takes place home. Whatever.

[Kansas City Kid]

You are obviously not familiar with how commuter rail works. Yes, that is EXACTLY how it works.

So which is it? He is not familiar or he is?

Dumbass.

[Screw_Michigan]

You do realize that the only form of mass transit that "turns a profit" is Amtrak's Northeast Corridor? Or is this another misinformed conservative rant about how transit needs to pay for itself?

And yes, I'm thinking HSR would be better used as a commuter effort. You seem to think it's just gonna be so people can vacation in St. Loser. Wrong.

[Felix]

Thoughts?

as a country, we have much more pressing needs than a high speed rail system

our power grid is essentially held together with bailing twine and chicken wire....upgrading the power grid should be our highest priority insofar as infrastructure is concerned

[Mikey]

Oh, wait... This is about updated 19th Century technology, isn't it?

maybe this is more appropriate

Nice try, anyway (not really)

US Average injuries + Fatalities per Passenger-Mile
(Averaged for 2002-2004)




RPR = Regional passenger rail ("commuter rail")
RRT = Rail rapid transit
LRT = Light rail transit
Bus = Public transit buses

[Goober McTuber]

Damn. I didn't know buses were so dangerous.

Mostly passenger-on-passenger violence.

[War Wagon]

...we chose to rip up millions of miles of existing infrastructure and replace it with Interstate Highways. All because Ike popped wood when he saw the Autobahn.

Ike may have liked (and I Like Ike) the autobahn, but the real need for Interstate Highways (in his estimation) came from when it took him and the military convoy he was with 45 days to travel from the east coast to the west coast in the 1920's. Or something like that.

[Cuda]

Damn. I didn't know buses were so dangerous.

Where does airline travel fall on that list?

It's like Python; it doesn't make the list

[Mikey]

Damn. I didn't know buses were so dangerous.

Where does airline travel fall on that list?

Hopefully not in your backyard.

[mvscal]

I'm a supporter of their efforts to upgrade our means of transportation.

Our means of transportation are freeways and airports, idiot.

[ucantdoitdoggieSTyle2]

Damn. I didn't know buses were so dangerous.

Where does airline travel fall on that list?

That graph is per passenger mile, so you know it's going to be miniscule compared to any other form of transportation.

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

high-speed rail = Europe = fags

[Bizzarofelice]

You do realize that the only form of mass transit that "turns a profit" is Amtrak's Northeast Corridor?

We don't have a definitive method of determining how each specific mode of transport is subsidized and how they "turn a profit" through subsidies. Road construction and maintenance is not directly tied to usage, oil and the military making sure a steady supply is available is not incorporated into the price of gas and tax benefits to airlines are not included in the price of an airline ticket. Mostly general government taxes are applied to these industries at the whim of each respective Congress


That being said, I'm not a fan of spending fat federal dollars on mass transit that might shave 40 minutes off a trip.

[Mikey]

Damn. I didn't know buses were so dangerous.

Where does airline travel fall on that list?

That graph is per passenger mile, so you know it's going to be miniscule compared to any other form of transportation.

I knew 'dat dog. It is why it didn't appear in the pro-rail chart to begin with.

That could be, and it depends on how you parse the statistics.

But trains are about twice as fuel efficient as airline travel, in terms of passenger miles per gallon.

[smackaholic]

That could be, and it depends on how you parse the statistics.

But trains are about twice as fuel efficient as airline travel, in terms of passenger miles per gallon.

This is true, actually, it's probably a lot better than that with full trains. trouble is, we have lots of empty or near empty ones running around.

and that will not change with commuter rail, so long as we live as spread out as we do. intercity trains in the NE should be more full, especially with air travel being the cluster fukk it currently is. trouble is, it's run by th egubmint, so naturally, it is FUBAR.

[Truman]

But trains are about twice as fuel efficient as airline travel, in terms of passenger miles per gallon.

...And are four times as slow. Air passengers pay for the privilege. We're running out of fuel when?

[Bizzarofelice]

We're running out of fuel when?

when the Chinks start using more of it and demand goes bananas.

[Truman]

We're running out of fuel when?

when the Chinks start using more of it and demand goes bananas.

The Chinks have mineral rights in North Dakota?

[Dr_Phibes]

If twelve Arab twats with drywall knives can blow up New York, I shudder to think what a Chinaman could do to North Dakota in a high speed caboose

[Cuda]

That could be, and it depends on how you parse the statistics.

No it doesn't. Airline travel dwarfs all other forms in terms of passenger miles, and automobiles come in a strong second. Considering their extremely low actual passenger mile, the fact that any form of rail travel is anywhere close to automobiles in fatalities makes train travel dangerous as fuck.

But trains are about twice as fuel efficient as airline travel, in terms of passenger miles per gallon.

No, they're not. It' not even fucking close.

[Truman]

We're running out of fuel when?

when the Chinks start using more of it and demand goes bananas.

I don't think that will be happening anytime soon

Hamfelice bein' Bizzarosteak. Unfortunately, his schtick doesn't travel far from Arnold's Drive-In, and he gets lost when big people speak about big-people topics.

[Go Coogs']

I'm wondering if the Chinese government intends to increase wages for everyone within the next few years so some of those ghost cities become affordable to habitat. But I can't imagine the average salary is increased from 6k annually to 45k in that amount of time.

What shocked me the most about that video was how freely the beauty parlor dude spoke of the government. I thought that was sort of forbidden over there. If there is unrest among the poor over there, then we could see a divided nation sooner rather than later. And this is where failed socialism begins to rear its ugly head.

[mvscal]

If there is unrest among the poor over there, then we could see a divided nation sooner rather than later. And this is where failed socialism begins to rear its ugly head.

If? You need to read up a little on Chinese history. Nobody does cataclysmic civil war like the Chinese. They haven't had good blood letting since Mao's Great Leap Forward. They're about due.

[Bizzarofelice]

We're running out of fuel when?

when the Chinks start using more of it and demand goes bananas.

I don't think that will be happening anytime soon

so you're saying the Chinese economy has plateaued? folks won't be driving around there in the future? other developing countries that were third world toilets two decades ago are now starting to drive. demand on oil will grow. future access to resources is important to the economy. a sudden loss of oil would fuck our economy as it is currently set-up.



and north dakota has as much oil as the middle east?

[Bizzarofelice]

Some of it may be difficult to recover

.

making it expensive. it is possible that these high speed rail thingees would lessen the damage that high oil prices would do to the economy, but not without a culture change. we're already moving out to the suburbs and uninterested in living near stuff. not judging. just saying that's how America rolls.

What we do have shitloads of is coal. That is indisputable. And coal can be converted to gasoline and other useful products using known processes, which become viable when the price of crude oil rises.

don't know much about this. like how high does oil have to get before we start this

[Go Coogs']

There is a lot of oil in North Dakota. And in other places. Some of it may be difficult to recover:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/gasoline/bakken.asp

What we do have shitloads of is coal. That is indisputable. And coal can be converted to gasoline and other useful products using known processes, which become viable when the price of crude oil rises.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_gasification

Don't forget about the natural gas. We have a shit ton of that too.

[mvscal]

What we do have shitloads of is coal. That is indisputable. And coal can be converted to gasoline and other useful products using known processes, which become viable when the price of crude oil rises.

don't know much about this. like how high does oil have to get before we start this

You can make a very nice, clean diesel fuel with coal and it wouldn't be that much more expensive. It's an established process. Diesel/electric hybrids should be the vehicles of the future. The use of ethanol as a fuel additive should be discontinued immediately.

[Go Coogs']

Huge Oil fields in the Bakken ND Shale / Eagleford TX and Marcellus PA and newly discovered Utica bed in Ohio.

May not totally eliminate need for foreign oil but could put a serious dent in it

Not only that, but we only extract a fraction of this oil from the rock below the surface. There is new technology out there that hasn't been funded enough that could probably increase extraction substantially.

[Dr_Phibes]

300 is just insanity and this community wont stand for it

No bother, I'd give the tank engine playset a week before it all goes to pot and a foreigner sets their penis on fire. Then it's all just commandos running through the dining car beating up pregnant women. It'll all end in tears, stick to battery powered bumper buggies and the gleaming office towers of the oil capital Bismarck.