T1B

of course this should happen so we can exploit Canada.

Ogalla aquifer be damned, Rumps needs a job to service his wife.

Seriously, this is a no brainer. There are about a million miles of underground pipelines in the U.S. that we unquestionably rely on to deliver gas and heating oil, and this is a political football? What the fuck kinda' dumbfuck administration would even for a minute deny the permit?

oh, an admin beholden to green technology like Solyndra.

What I find incredible is that most opposition comes from staunchly conservative farmers, ranchers, and state politicians in Nebraska. Never mind that there are oil wells dotting western Nebraska drawing crude through the aquifer. Yet, fearmongering is getting in the way of something as valuable as less reliance on Middle East oil and the thousands of jobs to be had. Dumbasses.

might as well reset this a coupla' days after Obama pusses out and denies the permit. Basically, it comes down to not wanting to piss off what's left of his 'base' in an election year so kick the can down the road.

Job? We don't need no stinking jobs.

What we need is more study, since 3 years obviously isn't enough.

War Wagon wrote: oh, an admin beholden to green technology like Solyndra.

Solyndra is dead. All about Solar World now. And while Solar World almost kind of produces something, inlike their ill-fated cousin, it's still pretty much a boondoggle, since the technology they're pimping doesn't appear to work.

BUT... they may provide the spark with their current legal case that finally gets some trade restrictions slapped on China... and once that ball gets rolling, better days are ahead.

If it takes a few hundred million in misspent taxpayer money to finally right one of our major (if not biggest) problems, the rack the silver lining.


And build the damned pipeline already.

Tell me again what's so important about building a pipline from Canada to Texas so that the Canadians can ship their tar sands oil out through the Gulf of Mexico. I'm sort of interested to hear how this will REALLY benefit the US.

TIA

Mikey wrote:Tell me again what's so important about building a pipline from Canada to Texas so that the Canadians can ship their tar sands oil out through the Gulf of Mexico. I'm sort of interested to hear how this will REALLY benefit the US.

TIA

cause your fuckin hero won't let us capture enough of our own energy resources.

Canada can't refine it. They just don't have the capacity to get it to market, while the Texas gulf coast has the ability to increase capacity with only a fraction of the capital costs.

Mikey wrote:Tell me again what's so important about building a pipline from Canada to Texas so that the Canadians can ship their tar sands oil out through the Gulf of Mexico. I'm sort of interested to hear how this will REALLY benefit the US.

TIA

1. Construction jobs
2. Flow through dollars from construction
3. Easement and right of way leases. (ongoing)
4. Maintenance dollars.

There is just a slight difference between the Dakota oil fields and the Canuksuckers tar sands.

Dinsdale wrote:

Solyndra is dead. All about Solar World now. And while Solar World almost kind of produces something, inlike their ill-fated cousin, it's still pretty much a boondoggle, since the technology they're pimping doesn't appear to work.

BUT... they may provide the spark with their current legal case that finally gets some trade restrictions slapped on China... and once that ball gets rolling, better days are ahead.

If it takes a few hundred million in misspent taxpayer money to finally right one of our major (if not biggest) problems, the rack the silver lining.


And build the damned pipeline already.

Hopefully that all happens before Solar World sucks the life out of the tax dollars and subsidies they are getting. Like their next door neighbors, Intel who's property taxes are capped on 100 million of infrastructure, they have numerous subsidies from the state here to provide some jobs.

Derron wrote: Hopefully that all happens before Solar World sucks the life out of the tax dollars and subsidies they are getting. Like their next door neighbors, Intel who's property taxes are capped on 100 million of infrastructure, they have numerous subsidies from the state here to provide some jobs.

Except Intel makes functional products that compete in a free market, and provides ~14,000 jobs in the county. The tax break they get is more than offset by a number of things, and I'll bet there's plenty of places offering them a tax break to provide tens of thousands of local jobs.

Thin solar film (which some physics/engineering types claim will never work in present form) provides a few dozen, maybe a couplefew hundred jobs, and isn't playing with their own money. When the economy tanked, Intel said "ALL IN," and blew their last few billion in the new R&D facility, which is already providing a huge economic boost.

Actually, if you look at statewide employment/income/poverty maps/graphs/stats, Washington County seems to be an island in a sea of misery. If only they were as friendly to small busness as it is to huge ones (try and open a winery in Washco if you don't believe me), it would be a very wealthy area (and I'd probably have to move).

Unfortunately for the US Canada has turned to China http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-0 ... sales.html

He may not be very good at the politics or economicals, but he sings sweet Al Green songs and stuff http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-hDt2E8MoE&sns=fb

KC Scott wrote:

Derron wrote:

Mikey wrote:Tell me again what's so important about building a pipline from Canada to Texas so that the Canadians can ship their tar sands oil out through the Gulf of Mexico. I'm sort of interested to hear how this will REALLY benefit the US.

TIA

1. Construction jobs
2. Flow through dollars from construction
3. Easement and right of way leases. (ongoing)
4. Maintenance dollars.

Might want to add that it's also cheaper than the $100+ per barrel we're paying the Saudis, Venezuela and the rest of those folks that love US so much.

The Obama tard meter is off the fucking chart

So, we'll be able to buy crude from Canada at below market prices? Are Canadians really that dumb? Are you really that dumb?

I was going to say something like "they already do, Mikey"...

But I'll go with "stay down, Mikey" instead.

But we should probably just keep depending on OPEC to make up the non-canuck/Mexican part of our supply... makes sense, and that US/Arab/Persian/OPEC partnership has caused no outside issues, so we should stick to it.

Let the Chinks keep the Straits of Hormuz open.

Mikey wrote:So, we'll be able to buy crude from Canada at below market prices?

What the fuck does that have to do with anything? Is that what you think this is about? Are YOU that dumb?

KC Scott wrote:

Mikey wrote:
So, we'll be able to buy crude from Canada at below market prices? Are Canadians really that dumb? Are you really that dumb?

I'll guess the whole "supply and demand" thing must have escaped you before hitting submit on that take Mikey

aside from the fact that the transport costs would be significantly lower from a Canadian pipeline and that our money is better sent to the Canucks than towelheads there's also the fact Oil is priced 2 different markets - Brent which is what everyone in the world pays and West Texas intermediate which is 10-12% cheaper: http://www.oil-price.net/

The idea with the pipeline was to bring it through Cushing where the US refiners would purchase at the WTI price

From your link:

Lately, though, WTI has been catching up on Brent, here's why: a new Seaway pipeline, moving oil from Cushing to the Gulf coast. Come April 2012, more of WTI crude oil would arrive in the Gulf coast. Initial estimate indicate 150,000 barrels of crude arriving in the Gulf coast every day (after regulatory approval), increasing to over 400,000 barrels per day by 2013. With the given evidence, looks like WTI is closing in on Brent.

So, they provide an easy pathway to export WTI, the price suddenly catches up with Brent. You think they're selling it cheap because they want to?

If the tar sands stuff is brought to the gulf, do you really think we'll be paying anything less than Brent prices for it?

So, solidifying an Upper Mexico/USA alliance and exporting to Europe and Asia wouldn't effect OPEC's numbers, Mikey?

With petroleum, as with anything else, you can be a leader or a follower. We now see which Obummer prefers.

KC Scott wrote: where the US refiners would purchase at the WTI price

Not fucking likely. Canadian tar sands crude is heavy, sour garbage. It's difficult and costly to refine and not everyone can do it. WTI is light, sweet crude. It is a completely different product sold at a completely different price point.

I believe most of the Canadian stuff is going to be refined into diesel and fuel oil not gasoline.

Oil is priced 2 different markets

Right. London/Atlanta (ICE) and New York (NYMEX). Brent and WTI are benchmark prices not markets.

mvscal wrote:

KC Scott wrote: where the US refiners would purchase at the WTI price

Not fucking likely. Canadian tar sands crude is heavy, sour garbage. It's difficult and costly to refine and not everyone can do it. WTI is light, sweet crude. It is a completely different product sold at a completely different price point.

I believe most of the Canadian stuff is going to be refined into diesel and fuel oil not gasoline.

Oil is priced 2 different markets

Right. London/Atlanta (ICE) and New York (NYMEX). Brent and WTI are benchmark prices not markets.

Let's not let the physics thing get in the way of economics here. To the libs, oil is oil and the preservation of the environment is more important than being self sufficient when it comes to energy. Tar sands...light crude..all the same thing. :doh:

Want to make the libs head explode ? Start talking about the ANWR reserves and how that, the Dakota fields and the Canucksuckers tar sands could probably allow us to tell the rag heads to go pound their own sand.

Derron wrote:
Want to make the libs head explode ? Start talking about the ANWR reserves and how that, the Dakota fields and the Canucksuckers tar sands could probably allow us to tell the rag heads to go pound their own sand.

Not even close.

I'd like to see more opportunity to develop the shale oil -- W's version was cool... if your name was Haliburton.

There's more (cruddy) oil in the state of Colorado than the entire Middle East.

And the world's biggest oil field is untapped (in ANWAR). Some pretty big conspiracy theories going around about that move, but probably time to use it as a stopgap until the free market (not stupid government subsidized "solutions" that reward lobbies) offers up better alternatives.

Mikey wrote:

Derron wrote:
Want to make the libs head explode ? Start talking about the ANWR reserves and how that, the Dakota fields and the Canucksuckers tar sands could probably allow us to tell the rag heads to go pound their own sand.

Not even close.

More than "close." It's not that large a percentage that comes from the Middle East. ANWAR could EASILY replace the crude we get from the Middle East... easily.

Not sure the military-industrial-complex would like that, and Ron Paul's detractors would have nothing to bitch about.

We will drill in ANWR, that isn't in question. What is in doubt is if it will be on our own timetable or one imposed on us by some outside force.

Damn sure hope it is on our timeline.

KC Scott wrote:Any idea where to find the benchmark for the COS then? Not on any exchange I can find

I saw $75 per barrel in one of the articles but it didn't define if that was the cost to extract or the sell price to the refiners

It is sold on the New York exchange. Commodity codes WCC ($79.37) and WCS ($79.39). WTI closed at $98.24.

http://www.dailyoilbulletin.com/

I'd keep a close eye on Valero (VLO) if this pipeline gets permitted. They specialize in refining heavy sour crude and have a large stake in this project.

Dinsdale wrote:And build the damned pipeline already.

I read all the other stuff that came after, yet came back to what really matters.

I fail to see the downside here.

If Romney has half a brain, he will use this decision like a club on baby seals.

And how in the holy fuck is a decision like this left up to the POTUS?

This is a business decision, one that the White House should stay the fuck out of.

There's a stronger political push for the Northern Gateway, rather than Keystone from the government. The 2008 crash was a wake up call, the Tories don't want all their eggs in one basket, they want to be a world player.