T1B

Joe Paterno
OJ Simpson
Pete Rose
Mike Tyson
Tiger Woods

I'd put Shoeless Joe ahead of both Tyson and Woods.

Tyson didn't get much "grace" to begin with, and Woods didn't fall that hard... still the most popular player.

I'd throw in Rae Carruth.

Not necessarily my Top Five, since Mgo already covered a few of them, but off the top of my head...

Sonny Liston
Denny McLain
Art Schlicter
Darryl Strawberry
Steve Howe
Ryan Leaf
Lenny Dykstra
Rafael Palmeiro
Sammy Sosa
Lawrence Taylor
Stanley Wilson
John Daly

Maybe the funniest fall from grace, though, was Dave Stewart's.

The more I think about it, Sonny Liston's fall was so thorough that it's tough to beat. A guy can't really fall any further than that.

Dinsdale wrote:I'd put Shoeless Joe ahead of both Tyson and Woods.

Tyson didn't get much "grace" to begin with, and Woods didn't fall that hard... still the most popular player.

^^^^^

Except, I gotta put Orenthal at leadoff, followed by JoePa, then shoeless Joe.

After that plug in whoever you want. Personally, I wouldn't put Rose up there simply because I don't think he did anything THAT horrible. Yes, he bet on stuff. He may have even bet on his own team. But no one has shown a shred of evidence that he ever bet against his team. And he sure the fukk can't be accused of throwing a game, seeing as he played that fukking game as hard as anyone ever did.

Bruce Jenner, had a sex change & became a Kardashian

Van wrote:Not necessarily my Top Five, since Mgo already covered a few of them, but off the top of my head...

Sonny Liston
Denny McLain
Art Schlicter
Darryl Strawberry
Steve Howe
Ryan Leaf
Lenny Dykstra
Rafael Palmeiro
Sammy Sosa
Lawrence Taylor
Stanley Wilson
John Daly

Maybe the funniest fall from grace, though, was Dave Stewart's.

He said five, not 15.

smackaholic wrote:Yes, he bet on stuff. He may have even bet on his own team. But no one has shown a shred of evidence that he ever bet against his team.

When you're consistently betting on your team to win and then all of the sudden you're NOT betting on your team, that's betting against your team, idiot. That's why you Rose ballwashers are so pathetic.

The "Hey, if he bet on his own team to win, it's cool" take is a poor one.

If he had jack on his team to win - and they were then losing big late in a game, he may very well have then taken abnormal and/or desperate steps as a manager in order to try to somehow salvage that one win.

There are times when a manager knows he has to simply throw in the towel (because his team's ass is too badly kicked) on a given game to save his pitching staff for upcoming games.

A gambling Pete may very well have managed abnormally and illogically because of money he had bet on a given game.

A manager just simply can not bet on baseball.
Period.

What, no love for Michael Vick?

He went from millionaire athlete at the top, or nearly top, echelon to federal prison inmate in the space of about a year or so. The list of others who can make even a comparable claim is short.

Of course, Vick benefitted from the opportunity at a Second Act. But so did Tiger Woods and Mike Tyson, even if their Seconds Acts weren't (or, in Tiger's case, aren't) as successful as the first ones were.

Rae Carruth also deserves an honorable mention here, although his place on the sports echelon wasn't as high to begin with as the others' were.

It was at a sporting event so I guess that fan in Texas last year would qualify.

MgoBlue-LightSpecial wrote:Joe Paterno
OJ Simpson
Pete Rose
Mike Tyson
Tiger Woods

Drop Tyson and Woods, add Woody Hayes and Tressel.

Wrestling is fake, but does Owen Hart count?

Joe Paterno - I don't want to know what kind of horrible thing would knock Joe out of the #1 spot
OJ Simpson - Beats wife, kills wife. Total POS.
Pete Rose - Say it ain't so
Mark McGwire - I guess it was kinda obvious he was juicing. But I still didn't want to believe it.
Marion Jones - Stripped of her gold, sent to the hole

BSmack wrote: Mark McGwire - I guess it was kinda obvious he was juicing. But I still didn't want to believe it.

McGwire's fall was softened by the fact that everybody knew anyway.

As far as juicing goes, Rafael Plameiro had a much harder fall from grace. Wags his finger, gets popped, never seen again.

A year from now, I'll probably say this guy..................................

poptart wrote:The "Hey, if he bet on his own team to win, it's cool" take is a poor one.

If he had jack on his team to win - and they were then losing big late in a game, he may very well have then taken abnormal and/or desperate steps as a manager in order to try to somehow salvage that one win.

There are times when a manager knows he has to simply throw in the towel (because his team's ass is too badly kicked) on a given game to save his pitching staff for upcoming games.

A gambling Pete may very well have managed abnormally and illogically because of money he had bet on a given game.

A manager just simply can not bet on baseball.
Period.

We might disagree on most, but I completely and totally agree with you here. See, bi-partisanship in Washington is possible.

R-Jack wrote:A year from now, I'll probably say this guy..................................

I'm not waiting that long.

/s/


Landis could probably be included on the list, though not in the top 5 since a) his "grace" period was brief, b) he didn't have far to fall, and c) it's just cycling, so no one really cares.

Barrett Robbins.

R-Jack wrote:McGwire's fall was softened by the fact that everybody knew anyway.

As far as juicing goes, Rafael Plameiro had a much harder fall from grace. Wags his finger, gets popped, never seen again.

Yea, but I didn't give a damn about Palmeiro.

A year from now, I'll probably say this guy..................................

Yea, he'll pole vault into the top 5 if they can ever lay a finger on him. But he's at the bottom of the top 5 because everybody knows they were doping AND nobody gives a damn about cycling. If he wasn't a one balled American cancer survivor, we would have never started caring.

poptart wrote:The "Hey, if he bet on his own team to win, it's cool" take is a poor one.

If he had jack on his team to win - and they were then losing big late in a game, he may very well have then taken abnormal and/or desperate steps as a manager in order to try to somehow salvage that one win.

There are times when a manager knows he has to simply throw in the towel (because his team's ass is too badly kicked) on a given game to save his pitching staff for upcoming games.

A gambling Pete may very well have managed abnormally and illogically because of money he had bet on a given game.

A manager just simply can not bet on baseball.
Period.

I wouldn't go so far as to say that betting on your team is cool. My point is, it is a long fukking way from betting against your team and it shouldn't be treated the same. As for managing differently because you have money on the game? The scenario you provided (getting your ass kicked bad) has fukk all to do with future pitching decisions. The horse already left the barn in that case. Or do you mean save your pitchers rather than have them pitch hit on hopes of getting runs back? :?

I think an appropriate response would have been to simply say, pete, you're done managing. maybe some token fines. he is one of the greatest players the game has seen. he should be in the HOF.

Pete's HoF resume is based entirely on his playing career, not his managerial career. He was never accused of betting for or against his team during his playing career. It's a joke that he's not enshrined in the Hof. EOS.

If Hank Gathers had a more graceful free throw shot, he'd qualify.

I'm guessing at least one time that Wilt Chamberlain fell from Grace.

Wolfman wrote:I'm guessing at least one time that Wilt Chamberlain fell from Grace.

Bet he fell from a few bettys and kates as well.

poptart wrote:A gambling Pete may very well have managed abnormally and illogically because of money he had bet on a given game.

A manager just simply can not bet on baseball.
Period.

Not to mention the potential for compromise if he got in too deep with his bookie. Once you start down the path of rationalization for clearly unethical if not actually illegal behavior, it isn't a very small step to fixing games to bail yourself out.

Right you are, mvscal.

smackaholic wrote:The scenario you provided (getting your ass kicked bad) has fukk all to do with future pitching decisions.

If a team is getting it's ass kicked 9-3 in the 7th inning, Mr. Manager probably leaves a slap pitcher out there to take his lumps because the game is almost surely lost.
No reason to bring a quality pitcher in to 'put out the fire' in such a case.
Just accept your defeat on that day.

But a desperate Pete, with money on the game, may bring a quality arm in to pitch for 2 or 3 innings to hold the other team still at their 9 runs, so that his batters can hopefully rally it up and pull out a W.

That quality arm Pete tossed in to pitch for 2 or 3 innings isn't then available for the next game, which it really should have been, had Pete managed logically.