Wake up the echoes, indeed.

Van · Post by **Van** » Thu Aug 16, 2012 2:15 am

http://espn.go.com/espn/story/_/id/8264 ... gnificance

Terry, you are hereby forbidden from uttering these two words in this thread: 'Big East.' Oh, and this one too: 'realignment.' Fuck...these as well: 'Jack Swarbrick.'

Can't do it. Under any circumstances. Strictly verboten.

Okay...go.

Left Seater · Post by **Left Seater** » Thu Aug 16, 2012 2:37 am

In short, until Notre Dame starts winning again, it's Rice to me.

I chuckled, then felt sad.

Screw_Michigan · Post by **Screw_Michigan** » Thu Aug 16, 2012 2:41 am

Left Seater wrote:
In short, until Notre Dame starts winning again, it's Rice to me.
I chuckled, then felt sad.

Why? Rice would beat ND eight out of 10 games.

Screw_Michigan · Post by **Screw_Michigan** » Thu Aug 16, 2012 2:43 am

Oh and fuck Reilly, the pussy, for not even mentioning Declan Sullivan.

Terry in Crapchester · Thu Aug 16, 2012 9:37 am

It's Reilly . . . and ESPN. 'Nuff said.

Screw_Michigan · Post by **Screw_Michigan** » Thu Aug 16, 2012 11:41 am

Terry in Crapchester wrote:It's Reilly . . . and ESPN. 'Nuff said.

While Reilly is a Grade A tard, quit acting like it's just a skewer job by a competitor.

Goober McTuber · Post by **Goober McTuber** » Thu Aug 16, 2012 1:57 pm

Rack Rick Reilly.

MgoBlue-LightSpecial · Thu Aug 16, 2012 3:04 pm

He didn't write anything all of us don't already know, but good to see somebody in the media finally say it.

Van · Post by **Van** » Thu Aug 16, 2012 4:41 pm

Terry in Crapchester wrote:It's Reilly . . . and ESPN. 'Nuff said.

What about it? Is what he said wrong in any way?

Go Coogs' · Post by **Go Coogs'** » Thu Aug 16, 2012 5:04 pm

MgoBlue-LightSpecial wrote:He didn't write anything all of us don't already know, but good to see somebody in the media finally say it.

Yeah, but that's why he was hired away from SI. He's always posting articles like this and like you said, John Q Public already knows this. I don't find him to be creative at all. I think dude just trolls the message boards and blogosphere looking for what the well informed masses really think of controversial subject matter and control+Cudas it onto his own template. He's a con artist if you ask me.

Goober McTuber · Post by **Goober McTuber** » Thu Aug 16, 2012 5:19 pm

He must be awfully good at it. Sportswriter of the year 11 times, I believe.

Go Coogs' · Post by **Go Coogs'** » Thu Aug 16, 2012 5:27 pm

Goober McTuber wrote:He must be awfully good at it. Sportswriter of the year 11 times, I believe.

To each his own. I just don't find him to be awe-inspiring like his peers do. His schtick is not that special to me.

Screw_Michigan · Post by **Screw_Michigan** » Thu Aug 16, 2012 5:30 pm

Goober McTuber wrote:He must be awfully good at it. Sportswriter of the year 11 times, I believe.

What the fuck do you know? You wouldn't know if dog shit was crème brûlée. Anyway all those sportswriting "awards" all occurred during his time at SI. Reilly's time with ESPN has been nothing but mailing it in.

Rack Rumps.

Screw_Michigan · Post by **Screw_Michigan** » Thu Aug 16, 2012 5:31 pm

Go Coogs' wrote:To each his own. I just don't find him to be awe-inspiring like his peers do. His schtick is not that special to me.

Reilly appeals to simpletons.

Goober McTuber · Post by **Goober McTuber** » Thu Aug 16, 2012 5:51 pm

I don’t find Reilly to be awe-inspiring. Amusing, at times, with an excellent command of the English language, but a bit too smarmy. That he gets criticized by Screwball (a supposed writer himself) is well beyond ironic.

At least he's not Skip Bayless.

Laxplayer · Post by **Laxplayer** » Thu Aug 16, 2012 8:40 pm

Dominating Navy just about every year......love it......

Van · Post by **Van** » Thu Aug 16, 2012 9:26 pm

Lax, forgive me if I missed them, but what are your W-L predictions for ND and USC this year? Are you realistically projecting anything better than 8-4 for your Domers? Also, what's your take on Kelly?

MuchoBulls · Post by **MuchoBulls** » Fri Aug 17, 2012 1:23 am

schmick wrote:Notre Dame looks to have new unis coming this year too, half their helmet gold, the other half black with a leprechaun on it.

Freaking brutal

http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports.co ... -vs-miami/

Screw_Michigan · Post by **Screw_Michigan** » Fri Aug 17, 2012 1:25 am

Not just awful, but FUCKING AWFUL.

Van · Post by **Van** » Fri Aug 17, 2012 3:02 am

Worst uni/helmet combo I've ever seen, with the possible exception of the Denver Broncos' brown and gold court jester throwback unis of a couple/few years ago. Among college football unis, this one is easily the worst. It fails on every gay fucking level.

As always, I'm left wondering two things: 1. Who on earth came up with this garbage? 2. How in hell did they ever get someone else to look at 'em and say, "Yeah...love 'em! Great idea!"

If USC ever does something even half this disgusting, I hope it's during a shitty season because I'm going to root for their opponent that day.

Shoalzie · Post by **Shoalzie** » Fri Aug 17, 2012 3:37 am

This one-off uniform shit needs to stop...

M Club · Post by **M Club** » Fri Aug 17, 2012 8:40 am

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

copied navy's jersey and cal's pants. doodied on a helmet then let some downs' retard make use of negative space.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Screw_Michigan · Post by **Screw_Michigan** » Fri Aug 17, 2012 1:39 pm

Van wrote:Worst uni/helmet combo I've ever seen, with the possible exception of the Denver Broncos' brown and gold court jester throwback unis of a couple/few years ago. Among college football unis, this one is easily the worst. It fails on every gay fucking level.

I'm pretty stunned. I never though ND would stoop this low. Sure, they suck and need to draw "positive" attention when they're consistently embarrassing themselves on national television, but man, this is a new low.

Laxplayer · Post by **Laxplayer** » Fri Aug 17, 2012 2:47 pm

First of all...those are the ugliest fucking unis I've ever seen since Maryland.

Second Van.......
I think if ND can struggle to an 8-4 season I'll be happy. I see losses to Michigan, Mich st, Stanford, SC, Oklahoma with the hopes they can actually win one of those games. Hell Navy may run them. I don't like Kelly. Never liked the hire. WTF did he ever do? I didn't like the way he handled the QB situation last year with Crist. I just don't like much about him. It's kind of a double edged sword which SC had with Hacket, Robinson....do I root for them to lose so they can fuck up another hire or do I root for them to win so they keep the guy.

Hell I'm almost as worried about them as I am broadcasting your alma mater next week vs. Serra.

M Club · Post by **M Club** » Fri Aug 17, 2012 3:14 pm

Sudden Sam wrote:
If Michigan runs out onto JJ's field all fired up, jumping around in some godawful-looking sissy-ass clown suits, I hope Alabama crushes the absolute shit outta them.

Of course, I wanna win big anyway, but make it really bad if they wear stupid shit.

michigan's wearing thes shit fuck things:

i was pretty embarrassed with them right up until i saw the notre dame child rape outfits. now i'm just glad that wasn't us. just a shoulder stripe, after all.

M Club · Post by **M Club** » Fri Aug 17, 2012 3:18 pm

Laxplayer wrote:I don't like Kelly. Never liked the hire. WTF did he ever do?

errrr, won like 4000 national championships at grand valley state; turned cmu from a mac bottom feeder into its strongest program; then used cincy to tear through the big east. only took like four seconds at each to turn them around.

maybe you guys should stop blaming all the decent coaches that come through. seems like an institutional thing.

MuchoBulls · Post by **MuchoBulls** » Fri Aug 17, 2012 6:59 pm

I still can't believe some at ND approved that shit.

Laxplayer · Post by **Laxplayer** » Fri Aug 17, 2012 7:15 pm

Yep Grand Valley State and ND are equal......

Well then again if he was so successful at those places what's his issue now? If he's such a great coach how come he hasn't done squat at ND yet? Maybe at lesser programs you can win with only a few good players with simpler schemes but at schools like ND, Mich, SC etc....you actually have to coach your ass off everyday and recruit talent at every position then make it better.

Terry in Crapchester · Sat Aug 18, 2012 1:16 pm

Screw_Michigan wrote:While Reilly is a Grade A tard,

Gee, ya think?

quit acting like it's just a skewer job by a competitor.

Okay, don't take my word for it. Let's take Reilly's, shall we?

Rick Reilly wrote:I once loved Notre Dame football.

. . .

But I grew up.

Hmmm, not too much of a bias there, now is there? I guess I should give Reilly props, though, for at least being honest. If I had a dollar for every hatchet piece I've ever read that began with, "I don't hate Notre Dame football, but . . ." I'd have more money than KC Scott, Indy Frisco, Lefty and 88. Combined.

Terry in Crapchester · Sat Aug 18, 2012 1:28 pm

Van wrote:
Terry in Crapchester wrote:It's Reilly . . . and ESPN. 'Nuff said.
What about it? Is what he said wrong in any way?

A few examples, just off the top of my head . . .

1. The BCS revenue. A prime example of cherry-picking. This was the result of a quid pro quo which, as it turned out, hurt ND greatly. Beginning with the 2006 season, ND's share of the BCS revenue was decreased for an appearance from $14-18 million to $4.5-6 million. With the BCS dissolving after the 2013 season, of course, ND will never recoup the lost revenue from the 2006 appearance, even if they don't go to the BCS in the next two years. Besides, it's a moot point after 2013, anyway. Yeah, ND might get a share of the revenue from the playoff, but so will everyone else.

2. The NBC contract. I'm pretty sure no one at ND has a gun to anyone at NBC's head and demanding the contract. Incriminating pictures -- maybe a different story, but still a longshot. Rather, it seems to me that NBC pays ND to televise its games because NBC profits from the deal as well. And don't kid yourself, there isn't another program in the country that would take such a deal -- if they could get it.

3. While the national championship drought is frustrating, it's not exactly like no one else has ever gone through it. In fact, ND is nowhere near the lead in that dubious category. Off the top of my head, a few programs at the top of the prestige heap who have experience droughts comparable to, or longer than, ND's current drought:

Michigan: 49 years between consecutive national championships (1948 and 1997)
LSU: 45 years between consecutive national championships (1958 and 2003)
Texas: 35 years between consecutive national championships (1970 and 2005)
Ohio State: 34 years between consecutive national championships (1968 and 2002)
Georgia: 32 years since last national championship (1980)
Penn State: 26 years since last national championship (1986)
USC: 25 years between consecutive national championships (1978 and 2003)
Notre Dame: 24 years since last national championship (1988)
Nebraska: 23 years between consecutive national championships (1971 and 1994)

Alabama and Oklahoma also have had lengthy droughts, although not quite as long.

Notre Dame is not the first powerhouse to go through this, and almost certainly will not be the last. Yet they get more grief over it than all the other schools on this list combined. As Killian once pointed out, the media tends to exaggerate when it comes to ND. When things are going well for ND football, the media almost always makes it out to be better than it really is. And when things aren't going well, the media almost always makes it out to be worse than it really is. Surprising that so many in this group consider themselves to be so media-savvy, yet can't or won't see that when it comes to ND.

4. The conference thing. Maybe I'm missing something here, but it seems to me that every school that plays in a conference decided at some point that playing in a conference was in its best interests. ND, in contrast, has decided that not playing in a conference is in its best interests. Those who advocate forcing ND's hand into a conference don't really want ND to be treated like everyone else. In reality, they want ND to be treated differently from everyone else because they don't like the decision ND made on its own.

5. The Penn State comparison was over the top at best, reprehensible at worst.

Btw, here's a pretty good rebuttal to Reilly's article: http://www.bloguin.com/crystalballrun/2 ... w-one.html. Seems that Reilly and ND probably have more in common with one another than either would ever care to admit.

Terry in Crapchester · Sat Aug 18, 2012 1:31 pm

MuchoBulls wrote:I still can't believe some at ND approved that shit.

Agreed. When did we become Oregon East?

I have some thoughts on how ND should look. If we can't be dominant, maybe we should at least take a step in that direction by looking like we did when we were dominant. In the Leahy era, ND wore blue jerseys at home, green jerseys on the road. I'd like to go back to that. Granted, we couldn't do that for a road game against Sparty, but most of the time we could pull it off.

I can't go back to the Leahy era for bowl games, of course, so I'll go back to the Parseghian era for that. White jerseys with names on the back for all bowl games.

M Club · Post by **M Club** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 2:57 pm

Laxplayer wrote:Yep Grand Valley State and ND are equal......

ja, because they hired him straight out of grand valley. how much longer do you plan to play stupid?

If he's such a great coach how come he hasn't done squat at ND yet? Maybe at lesser programs you can win with only a few good players with simpler schemes but at schools like ND, Mich, SC etc....you actually have to coach your ass off everyday and recruit talent at every position then make it better.

uh, therein lies your problem: turns out taking the nd job was actually a step down from cincinnati.

again, i wouldn't blame kelly. you're going to fire him two seasons from now and two seasons afterwards he'll be back in the bcs and you'll be copy and pasting the same things you've said about davies, willingham, weis....

Laxplayer · Post by **Laxplayer** » Sun Aug 19, 2012 2:21 am

errrr, won like 4000 national championships at grand valley state; turned cmu from a mac bottom feeder into its strongest program; then used cincy to tear through the big east. only took like four seconds at each to turn them around.

Um dumb fuck....you brought up the GV St argument. Maybe you think winning at a shit ass school compares to winning at a place like ND but it really doesn't.....and you ask how long I plan to be stupid. Look in the mirror fuck head.

maybe you guys should stop blaming all the decent coaches that come through. seems like an institutional thing.

Then assholes like you will argue that ND fan always blames the institution...lower the academic standards, join a conference and all your other weak ass arguments. It's a hell of a lot easier to win in a lesser conference because you don't need as much talent. To get into ND it takes a bit more of intelligence than to get into Cincy. ND has to recruit a different type of kid and their pickings are a lot less than most schools. Now with that being said your bitch ass will probably reply....well there goes ND fan with the academics argument again. You pussy haters can't have it both ways. I don't like Kelly, never did, never will. I thought Weis would be a good hire but he turned into a train wreck. They need a proven coach from a big school not some Jr. College coach who won in the middle of nowhere next to no place. Grand Valley State....yeah there's a fucking powerhouse.

M Club · Post by **M Club** » Sun Aug 19, 2012 6:43 am

Laxplayer wrote:
errrr, won like 4000 national championships at grand valley state; turned cmu from a mac bottom feeder into its strongest program; then used cincy to tear through the big east. only took like four seconds at each to turn them around.
Um dumb fuck....you brought up the GV St argument. Maybe you think winning at a shit ass school compares to winning at a place like ND but it really doesn't.....and you ask how long I plan to be stupid. Look in the mirror fuck head.

i thought you were being willfully retarded but turns out out you're actually missing a chromosome. perhaps you'll notice the semi-colons up there. they indicate a series. in this case the series referenced all the places brian kelly had won at before taking the notre dame job, of which gvsu was but one. from there he made a successful leap into lower-tier D1 and from there another successful leap into a BCS conference. next logical step was a high profile gig like notre dame, unless you seriously expected him to coach at, say, oklahoma for five years to prove he could win at nd.

so yes, i did bring up gvsu to talk about his meteoric rise (can't really illustrate an ascension without first mentioning where he started, now can you?). figures a retard like you would synthesize that as gvsu = nd. jesus, and you've spawned.

Then assholes like you will argue that ND fan always blames the institution...lower the academic standards, join a conference and all your other weak ass arguments. It's a hell of a lot easier to win in a lesser conference because you don't need as much talent. To get into ND it takes a bit more of intelligence than to get into Cincy. ND has to recruit a different type of kid and their pickings are a lot less than most schools. Now with that being said your bitch ass will probably reply....well there goes ND fan with the academics argument again. You pussy haters can't have it both ways. I don't like Kelly, never did, never will. I thought Weis would be a good hire but he turned into a train wreck. They need a proven coach from a big school not some Jr. College coach who won in the middle of nowhere next to no place. Grand Valley State....yeah there's a fucking powerhouse.

pssst, it's not much of an argument to say the obvious arguments aren't valid because they're the obvious arguments. and not really sure it's the pussy haters trying to have it both ways here. seems like that's your issue.

some more psssst, they're not going to get a proven coach from another blue blood. plucking a guy out of bcs practice was a best case scenario for you pedos...which reminds me: how come you have two favorite teams and they both rape kids?

MgoBlue-LightSpecial · Sun Aug 19, 2012 2:41 pm

Laxplayer wrote:To get into ND it takes a bit more of intelligence than to get into Cincy. ND has to recruit a different type of kid and their pickings are a lot less than most schools.

Oh, give me a fucking break, asshat. I see you're dutifully eating up all the lame talking points the ND homer boards are feeding you. ND is bringing in top 10-15 recruiting classes on the regular. More than enough to win. I guess Cincy, with their lack of standards, must be cracking the top 5 every year, right?

Cry me a fucking river. Programs like Boise State and Wisconsin bring in classes ranked in the 50s, yet they'd see your squad as a cum rag before they'd see it as competition. So try to latch on to a better excuse.

Carson · Post by **Carson** » Sun Aug 19, 2012 3:03 pm

the national championship drought is frustrating,

Auburn went 53 years and had two undefeated seasons during their drought.

ND could lose to a military academy and still be considered.

Nope, no media love there.:clovereyes:

Terry in Crapchester · Sun Aug 19, 2012 4:58 pm

M Club wrote:
Laxplayer wrote:I don't like Kelly. Never liked the hire. WTF did he ever do?
errrr, won like 4000 national championships at grand valley state; turned cmu from a mac bottom feeder into its strongest program; then used cincy to tear through the big east. only took like four seconds at each to turn them around.

Surprised that a Michigan fan, of all people, would bring this up. Didn't you guys just have a flameout of epic proportions with a coach who, at least at the time, had the highest all-time winning % at West Virginia among coaches with more than one year of experience?

You of all people should know that success at one program doesn't always translate into success at another program.

maybe you guys should stop blaming all the decent coaches that come through. seems like an institutional thing.

I'm not always a fan of ND's administration, but they are taking some steps in the right direction of late. We were late to the table for EE's, very late for transfer students, but we do both now.

We probably should ease admissions standards a bit and maybe ease up on the academic requirements for a fifth year of eligibility.

Van · Post by **Van** » Sun Aug 19, 2012 5:42 pm

Nah. You should probably just start winning more. As Mgo said, your admissions standards aren't preventing you from garnering consistently competitive recruiting classes, so that's not the problem. Whereas other programs succeed with much less, you're simply not doing anything with what you have.

Also, I seem to recall that Stanford just managed a monster recruiting class, and they've been in BCS bowl games the last two seasons despite being saddled with academic requirements that are quite stringent.

And M Club didn't claim that Kelly's success at his previous gigs was any guarantee that he'd achieve similar success at ND. He was merely answering Lax's "WTF did he ever do?" question. If anything, his point seems to be more along the lines that the head coach isn't the problem there, not when every guy you bring in suffers roughly the same degree of failure.

M Club · Post by **M Club** » Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:21 am

Terry in Crapchester wrote: Surprised that a Michigan fan, of all people, would bring this up. Didn't you guys just have a flameout of epic proportions with a coach who, at least at the time, had the highest all-time winning % at West Virginia among coaches with more than one year of experience?

You of all people should know that success at one program doesn't always translate into success at another program.

Ja, you boring ass clown, rooting for Michigan totally precludes me from pointing out Brian Kelly had a resume that merited his hire at holy, sacred, everyone get a boner because it's Notre Dame. And speaking of Dickrod, if I had to live through the coaching search again I'd still be ecstatic about the hire since I can only go on the available evidence, which at the time was fairly promising. I just never expected him to show up and immediately start recruiting midgets to play Big Ten football. That and everyone but the two people responsible for hiring hated him and immediately began sabotaging his efforts, whereas Kelly was welcomed with open arms because he's a Catholic or some such nonsense wholly unrelated to coaching.

And since you bring up Michigan I'll take this opportunity to point out the Dickrod fiasco taught us a valuable lesson about who really drops everything just because Michigan called, whereas the short list of prospective coaches that comes out every time you guys go through a coaching search each new moon begins with Vince Lombardi, ends with Jon Gruden, and includes Bob Stoops and either Urban Meyer or Bill Beliceck, depending on whom you talk to. You fucks are delusional. I forget why you hired Davies, but when he wasn't good enough you went with the black guy because he proved you could win at a school with even tougher academics than ND; after him you hired the fat guy because he won 15 Super Bowls; and even thought those two hiring strategies didn't work out you now find vacuous douchebags ('sup, Lax) bemoaning the Kelly hire because what has he ever done except win. You guys aren't even internet dumbfucks; you're caricatures of internet dumbfucks.

Terry in Crapchester · Mon Aug 20, 2012 4:59 am

M Club wrote:Ja,

Ja????? WTF is ja? Last time I checked, we post here in English, not German.

you boring ass clown, rooting for Michigan totally precludes me from pointing out Brian Kelly had a resume that merited his hire at holy, sacred, everyone get a boner because it's Notre Dame. And speaking of Dickrod, if I had to live through the coaching search again I'd still be ecstatic about the hire since I can only go on the available evidence, which at the time was fairly promising.

And I was actually happy with the results of the coaching search for Kelly. At the time, it looked like a good hire. Same as DickRod. So far, at least, the results have been underwhelming, albeit not quite as disastrous as DickRod's results at Michigan.

I just never expected him to show up and immediately start recruiting midgets to play Big Ten football. That and everyone but the two people responsible for hiring hated him and immediately began sabotaging his efforts, whereas Kelly was welcomed with open arms because he's a Catholic or some such nonsense wholly unrelated to coaching.

Can't speak to DickRod. But if you really think it's been nothing but wine and roses for Kelly at ND, then it's patently obvious that you haven't a fucking clue about ND, you smarmy little prick.

Most people at ND aren't exactly happy with Kelly over the Declan Sullivan incident, even if they, unlike Screwy, have stopped short of calling him a murderer over it.

Nor are most people happy over him advocating for stadium rock and field turf (which allegedly is coming in 2013, although I'm not yet completely convinced of that). Nor the way he handled the QB situation last year. Nor the alleged rift he created in the lockerroom when he compared Weis' recruits unfavorably to his own. Nor the run/pass ratio . . . and the beat goes on.

In fact, Kelly is so unpopular at ND that he has received a rather charming nickname (Purpleface) courtesy of the interwebs.

And since you bring up Michigan I'll take this opportunity to point out the Dickrod fiasco taught us a valuable lesson about who really drops everything just because Michigan called,

Yeah, because Brady Hoke was such a huge name in the coaching search.

Hell, you couldn't even get Les Miles to return to his alma mater, much to the chagrin of LSUFan not named JSC810.

whereas the short list of prospective coaches that comes out every time you guys go through a coaching search each new moon begins with Vince Lombardi, ends with Jon Gruden, and includes Bob Stoops and either Urban Meyer or Bill Beliceck, depending on whom you talk to. You fucks are delusional. I forget why you hired Davies, but when he wasn't good enough you went with the black guy because he proved you could win at a school with even tougher academics than ND; after him you hired the fat guy because he won 15 Super Bowls; and even thought those two hiring strategies didn't work out you now find vacuous douchebags ('sup, Lax) bemoaning the Kelly hire because what has he ever done except win. You guys aren't even internet dumbfucks; you're caricatures of internet dumbfucks.

First of all, as I said above, I was actually cautiously excited about the Kelly hire, and I'm one of the few ND fans who has yet to completely write him off. I still see a window of opportunity for him at ND, although that window is rapidly narrowing.

And I recognize both the good and the bad that has come under Kelly. Yes, I was saddened about the Declan Sullivan incident (who wasn't?). And I'm less than enthusiastic over stadium rock, and considerably more negative toward field turf. I didn't like the way he handled the QB situation last year, I always thought Crist got a raw deal on that (too short a leash for Crist, far too long a leash for Rees). The inability to fix turnovers and the failure to even try to fix the punt return unit have also been a source of consternation. But at the same time, I recognize that the play on both sides of the line of scrimmage has improved markedly since Kelly was hired. Player development has improved considerably, as evidenced by both that and the fact that ND had two first round NFL draft choices last year for the first time since 1994. Yeah, most of this board probably could've coached Michael Floyd to first-round status, but Harrison Smith was another story altogether. If Charlie Weis was still ND's head coach, he would've been a fourth-round choice -- if he was lucky. So there's been improvement, at least in some areas. Just not enough, at least not yet anyway, to translate into significant improvement in the program as a whole.

If you want to look at the rest of the recent head coaches . . .

Davie: ND completely screwed the pooch on this hire. We dicked around with a flavor of the month (Barnett), and when that didn't pan out, we were left with Davie as the only guy we could get. Lou Holtz should have been succeeded by one of his DC's, but not Davie. Davie was the fourth-best of five DC's under Holtz (and maybe I'm being a little generous with that assessment). The guy we should've hired to succeed Lou was Barry Alvarez, and yes, he would've been gettable. Davie obviously would've preferred the aTm job to ND. No knock on aTm, and I'm sure Davie wasn't alone among the coaching fraternity in that regard, but any coach who would prefer the aTm job to the ND job has no business being the head coach at ND under any circumstances.

Ty: This hire was actually made in somewhat of a panic mode, as a deal for Gruden had fallen through earlier and then we had to go through the O'Leary resume debacle (I actually wanted a mulligan on the O'Leary hire, and thought Ty was an improvement over O'Leary, although it still wound up embarrassing us a little). Ty's problems were: (a) he was a lazy recruiter; (b) he didn't understand that the expectations at ND for the football team were considerably higher than they were at Stanford; and (c) he was loyal to a fault (literally) to his coaching staff. Of course, ND botched the firing (sup, El Bueno Medico Blanco) to the point that ESPN and its ilk got away with accusing ND of racism. Funny, but I never heard a retraction from those hacks following the job Ty did at Washington, which was far worse even than what he did at ND.

Weis: Was considered a "safe" choice for ND after they lost out on Meyer (a former ND assistant, btw). Weis also had been in the running for a number of NFL coaching vacancies. Weis was an outstanding OC who, I think, lacked the necessary social skills to transition into a successful head coach. He also may have underestimated the differences between coaching in the NFL and coaching in college -- while he focused on recruiting, and did quite well there, player development under Weis left a lot to be desired, except for offensive skill positions. I think an unsung reason for Weis' failure at ND was the heart attack of David Cutcliffe. I think Weis counted on Cutcliffe to be a head coaching mentor, as well as a sort of go-between between himself and the staff. In particular, Weis and his OL coach, John Latina, never seemed to be on the same page. Before coming to ND, Latina was the OL coach under Cutcliffe at Ole Miss.

Oh, and you've never heard me mention Gruden's name in connection with the ND job expect perhaps to shoot it down. Gruden hasn't coached at all in several years, hasn't coached at the college level in any capacity in over 20 years, and yet he's gonna come in and be the savior???

Honestly, I don't get why so many have such a mancrush on the guy. And fwiw, while this is strictly my opinion, I think Gruden is this generation's John Madden -- the coach who leaves the sideline for the broadcast booth and never goes back.