T1B

Scott be trooling.

As for resolving the Social Security crisis, that’s simple. Eliminate the withholding cap (currently at $110,100).

Goober McTuber wrote:As for resolving the Social Security crisis, that’s simple. Eliminate the withholding cap (currently at $110,100).

Why?

trev wrote:

Goober McTuber wrote:As for resolving the Social Security crisis, that’s simple. Eliminate the withholding cap (currently at $110,100).

Why?

Why not?

I think that they're just planning on producing a very long (well maybe not so long condsidering it's a gov't. agency) PowerPoint presentation, and are willing to pay for some new ideas.

KC Scott wrote:
Why is the agency that provides benefits to retirees, disabled workers, widows and children stockpiling ammunition? Whom are they going to use it on?

Culling the herd?

KC Scott wrote:

Goober McTuber wrote:As for resolving the Social Security crisis, that’s simple. Eliminate the withholding cap (currently at $110,100).

Fuck you peseant

What is a peseant?

Roach wrote:I'll play.

About 300 agents (who carry weapons) shoot about 50 rounds per month each, to keep sharp and qualified, equals about 174,000 bullets. That is a very reasonable amount of ammunition for an armed force to consume in a year.

Hollow points? Well hell yes, for a couple of reasons. One: The ultimate intent here is to disable and/or neutralize threatening people. Hollow points are designed to do that. Want them to use a FMJ? Like sticking them with an ice pick. They may die, but before they do, they can do a lot of damage. A hollow point is a stopper. Two: hollow points are less likely to shoot through people and walls and hit other unintended targets.

It's a tempst in a teapot, fueled by uninformed emotionalism.

Swing and a miss here Roach, for your usually accurate takes.

The point here is not hollow point versus FMJ, it is why do they even have armed agents?

Why the fuck do we have armed Social Security agents ? Afraid old grandma is going to jump out of her wheel chair at the rest home and start jacking off rounds ? Don't see a lot of criminal threat that requires an SS agent to pack.



Absolutely no reason at all for Social Security agents to be armed. They have Federal Marshalls, the FPS, and any other number of Federal agencies they can call upon if they need armed assistance in what I would think would be pretty rare circumstances. Social security crimes are not the type of crimes that require that level of deterrence.

The SS administration is just another Obongo attempt to enact a level of gun control in the horrifying possibility that he is reelected. SS may buy them, but they will be diverted to another agency. Complete bullshit.

Roach wrote:I'll play.

Two: hollow points are less likely to shoot through people and walls and hit other unintended targets.

In close quarters with anything 9mm or larger, the round is going through the wall(s) and going to do some damage. Hollow points can go through a lot before they finally stop.

Roach wrote:

The SS administration is just another Obongo attempt to enact a level of gun control in the horrifying possibility that he is reelected. SS may buy them, but they will be diverted to another agency. Complete bullshit.

This I would not dispute.

So are you two yahoos sharing a tin-foil umbrella?

Sam, please tell me that you're not becoming...one of them.

Roach wrote: It depends on which hollow point. Cheap ones, maybe yes. The Hornady Critical Defense 115gr., while not a frangible, will not penetrate much more than a couple inches of flesh or 5/8 of sheetrock. And some of the Cor-Bon/Barnes bullets are designed especially not to do as you say, "go through a lot." Did I put the quotation mark in the right fucking place?

True, the 115 grain is going to come apart pretty quick. I still use FMJ's in my carry Glock 9mm. I have had some jam issues in smaller caliber's with the hollow points a couple of times. Probably would not use them, other than the HydraShocks which are pretty nasty rounds.

"Anything 9mm and larger." Diameter of projectile has very little to do with penetration (terminal ballistics). What about .223 or a 5.45×18mm MPT? The 5.45 (about .27 caliber) is designed to go through several layers of Kevlar.

Again true. I was going on the context of hand gun use with heavier bullets and lower fps, which I would go to first on interior defense, versus getting the black platforms out. If they are coming across the fence and yard, I am probably getting the Sig semi auto 12ga out with buck shot.

Absolutely no reason at all for Social Security agents to be armed. They have Federal Marshalls (sic), the FPS, and any other number of Federal agencies they can call upon if they need armed assistance in what I would think would be pretty rare circumstances. Social security crimes are not the type of crimes that require that level of deterrence.

Well to quote the article: "The agents carry guns and make arrests — 589 last year, Lasher said. They execute search warrants and respond to threats against Social Security offices, employees and customers."

Some of the perps they are going after aren't Grandma, they are making felony arrests, and that means they take it serious.

Any LEO who does that kind of work needs to be armed. And as a matter of procedure (write your congressman and change it if you think it is wrong), they don't have FBI or Federal Marshals* hanging around to help them.

You missed the mark here a little Derron, but don't get me wrong, I would have you on my side of the wall anytime after the SHTF scenario comes.


* US Marshal - as in federal LEO: Has only One L

In that context, yes they need to be armed. It just seems fucked up to me that our government has a social service agency that needs armed LEO. Of course a lot of shit about our Federal government is fucked up. I appreciate your comment as well. The hand wringers can wait for the law to defend them and the rest of us can take care of our own shit. Got my ham ticket now for communications, and working on a pretty good station setup.

I don't know, dude. You're scaring me lately. You keep posting the same crazy shit while adding only a slight variation of the classic "not that I care, but a friend wants to know..." disclaimer.

You have to know that the Honor of the South rests on your shoulders, so you are simply not allowed to become a total whack job. Not you. Got it?

Van, to SS wrote:the Honor of the South rests on your shoulders, so you are simply not allowed to become a total whack job.

What, Jsc & Python don't have shoulders?

Smackie, Py's become a borderline Thumper who lost his sense of humor somewhere along the way, and it would be unseemly for Jsc to lead the charge while sporting a hospital gown. In the annals of modern history, great leaders usually don't fly into the fray with their bare asses exposed.

Sam is sorta broad-minded, he knows nearly as much music as you do, and he rides a Honda.

He's supposed to be sane. As far as I can tell, he truly is the South's best hope.

Van wrote:Sam is sorta broad-minded, he knows nearly as much music as you do

He knows a helluva lot more than I do about lots of music.

Even better, then. Dude is not allowed to go Hee Haw Kaczynski on us.

Sudden Sam wrote:

Van wrote: Sam is sorta broad-minded

Sorta?!

No shit. Judging from your PETs, you seem to always have broads on your mind. And in your viewfinder.

Sam wrote:Sorta?!

Yeah, "sorta." See, if we consider oh, say, Derron to be on one end of the broad-minded seesaw and, hmmm, Irie to be on the other, you're pretty much Sudden Centralist.

In terms of having your mind on broads, same deal. Again, if we consider pron the yin and poptart the yang, you're fairly Meatloaf.

While I do believe you have him beat on the women thing and you may very well be the superior cook, I highly doubt that your team will be beating his this year.

Also, motorcycles trump minivans eight days a week. Slap some Underoos on and get your ass on a bike.

So I accomplished something worthwhile today.

Excellent.

Roach wrote: The 5.45 (about .27 caliber)

Eh, no. 5.45mm is more like .210 caliber. 5.56mm is .223 caliber.

if you're going to split *hairs, then get it right.

5.45mm = .214
5.56mm = .218

*a human hair = .002

War Wagon wrote:if you're going to split *hairs, then get it right.

5.45mm = .214
5.56mm = .218

*a human hair = .002

5.56 is .223, dumbass.

mvscal wrote:

War Wagon wrote:if you're going to split *hairs, then get it right.

5.45mm = .214
5.56mm = .218

*a human hair = .002

5.56 is .223, dumbass.

Settle down, children. You both are right. I'm certainly no authority on this subject, but I can Google as well as anyone, and the most common conversion factor I've found for converting mm to caliber is mm/25.4 = caliber, meaning mm = 25.4 x caliber. Using this simple guide, the figures Wags cited are closer to correct; rounding to three decimal places, 5.45 mm = .215, and 5.56 mm = .219.

Yes, I know wikipedia should NEVER be used as THE authoritative source for, well, anything. But I've looked at other sites and a few conversion tables, and there are differences among them. Wiki at least provides a referenced explanation of those differences and a somewhat detailed chart with notes and various cartridge manufacturers cited.

wikipedia wrote:Due to variations in naming conventions, and the whims of the cartridge manufacturers, bullet diameters can vary widely from the diameter implied by the name. For example, there is a difference of as much as 0.045 inches (1.15 mm) between the smallest and largest of the several cartridges designated as '.38 caliber'. And it may be noted that .38 inches is more than 9 1/2 mm.

You'll notice, for example, the chart on that site for the .22 caliber shows several different figures ranging from .218 - .226, which covers both of your computations for 5.56 mm, while the mm conversions for those caliber figures include 5.5, 5.56, and 5.7.

This isn't meant to refute that either/both of you may be dumbasses. And Roach's assertion of 5.45 mm ~ .27 cal is way off.

Carry on, kids.

Goober McTuber wrote:As for resolving the Social Security crisis, that’s simple. Eliminate the withholding cap (currently at $110,100).

You couldn't be more right. Also, we could include investment income as part of the payroll tax.

KC Scott wrote:Fuck that and fuck you

Why should I pay for your retirement, when I probably won't see the money I've put into this forrced fucking ponzi scheme

You would if we remove the cap.

Goober McTuber wrote:

trev wrote:

Goober McTuber wrote:As for resolving the Social Security crisis, that’s simple. Eliminate the withholding cap (currently at $110,100).

Why?

Why not?

Because you aren't entitled to it. Do you have a reason as to why? Answer the question.

trev wrote:Because you aren't entitled to it. Do you have a reason as to why? Answer the question.

Hey look, I'm going to get mine. I'd just like to see it there for younger people as well. Any individual making over $110,000 can afford to chip in another 6 cents out of every dollar. If I was making $250,000/year, it wouldn't bother me a bit to kick in another 8 or 9 K to SS. Ya greedy bastards.

KC Scott wrote:

Goober McTuber wrote:

KC Scott wrote:Fuck that and fuck you

Why should I pay for your retirement, when I probably won't see the money I've put into this forrced fucking ponzi scheme

You would if we remove the cap.

Yea, pay more in so I can get the money I've already paid in

Makes perfect sense idiot

fuck you

Nice melt, Daddy Warbucks.

Goober McTuber wrote: If I was making $250,000/year, it wouldn't bother me a bit to kick in another 8 or 9 K to SS. Ya greedy bastards.

Bullshit. You are not making 250K a year, so how can you say you would want to pay another 8K to 9K in taxes ? You might think you would, but my money says if you were making that much, and the gubmint wanted to get another 3% or so out of you, would you would say, "Hell yeah I am down with that, here you go", or would you say "Fuck off you rotten tax grabbing bastards, I already paid my share. "

Feel free to go ahead and give them some more of your money right now and see if that makes a difference.

Derron wrote:

Goober McTuber wrote: If I was making $250,000/year, it wouldn't bother me a bit to kick in another 8 or 9 K to SS. Ya greedy bastards.

Bullshit. You are not making 250K a year, so how can you say you would want to pay another 8K to 9K in taxes ? You might think you would, but my money says if you were making that much, and the gubmint wanted to get another 3% or so out of you, would you would say, "Hell yeah I am down with that, here you go", or would you say "Fuck off you rotten tax grabbing bastards, I already paid my share. "

You would lose that bet, Dohron. I live comfortably on less than that. I have always believed that cap should be removed. I can honestly say that I would not have a problem paying SS tax on the whole $250,000.

So, would you shut it down at 250K?

Why?

I mean that is the level of income where you are just starting to get into being well off.

The solution is to raise the age.

When it was founded, you had to outlive your life expectancy to get penny one. We can not have a pension system where everyone expects to collect for 20-30 years unless we pay a lot more in.

And no, just hammering the rich won't do it.

Goober McTuber wrote:If I was making $250,000/year, it wouldn't bother me a bit to kick in another 8 or 9 K to SS.

Wouldn't it be better to invest it yourself? Have you ever examined the expected ROI on social security? You have paid into it your entire life. How long will you have to live to break even?

Smackie Chan wrote:Settle down, children. You both are right. I'm certainly no authority on this subject, but I can Google as well as anyone, and the most common conversion factor I've found for converting mm to caliber is mm/25.4 = caliber, meaning mm = 25.4 x caliber. Using this simple guide, the figures Wags cited are closer to correct; rounding to three decimal places, 5.45 mm = .215, and 5.56 mm = .219.

I'm settled down, but when it comes to mathematical equations, we both can't be right. And when it comes to converting metric to imperial, I'm most definitely an authority as I do it everyday as part of my job.

but yes, you can take mm divided by 25.4 and get the decimal equivalent. You can also multiply mm by .03937 and get the same exact result going out 6 decimal places.

War Wagon wrote:when it comes to mathematical equations, we both can't be right.

That much is true, but...

caliber or calibre is the approximate internal diameter of the barrel in relation to the diameter of the projectile used in it.

The operative word there being approximate, meaning the rule-of-thumb conversion values don't always apply, and there is a range of bullet diameters rather than a single standard diameter that apply to stated calibers. Given that, both of you can be right.

true enough, there may be a range of diameter assigned to caliber, or diameter, just as there is a range of thk as it pertains to gauge. These ranges are commonly referred to as "mill tolerance".

But, mv flat out stated that 5.56 mm was .223 while correcting somebody else's math. This was and is demonstrably false.

War Wagon wrote:I'm settled down, but when it comes to mathematical equations, we both can't be right.

Meanwhile back in reality, you can fire .223 Remington out of a rifle chambered for 5.56 NATO and that's pretty much the end of this sidebar.

smackaholic wrote:So, would you shut it down at 250K?

Why?

I mean that is the level of income where you are just starting to get into being well off.

The solution is to raise the age.

When it was founded, you had to outlive your life expectancy to get penny one. We can not have a pension system where everyone expects to collect for 20-30 years unless we pay a lot more in.

And no, just hammering the rich won't do it.

I never suggesting capping it at $250,000, you credulous tard. I suggesting removing the cap entirely. The $250,000 was an example. If I made $500,000, I'd happily pay SS on the whole lot.

They have made a marginal effort to raise the rertirement age:

http://www.socialsecurity.gov/retire2/agereduction.htm

I can take full retirement at age 66, and I plan to do that. I'm also planning to continue working full-time for another 4 or 5 years after that.

mvscal wrote:

War Wagon wrote:I'm settled down, but when it comes to mathematical equations, we both can't be right.

Meanwhile back in reality, you can fire .223 Remington out of a rifle chambered for 5.56 NATO and that's pretty much the end of this sidebar.

I hope not..reading Suckie Chan and Wags go back and forth over these complex math problems makes me want to follow this thread all day.