T1B

88 wrote:And that is fine, even though it should be clear to anyone than Ohio State would kick the living shit out of Notre Dame this year.

I lol'd.

Killian wrote:

88 wrote:And that is fine, even though it should be clear to anyone than Ohio State would kick the living shit out of Notre Dame this year.

I lol'd.

Notre Dame is the worst undefeated team I've ever seen....but props to the domers and good luck, you're going to need it.....

Yes, they are a much worse undefeated team than OSU 2002. And of course ND is going to need luck. Every team needs luck. The've played a harder schedule than 'Bama, Oregon, KSU, etc. and did so without losing a game. So better to be the worst undefeated team (whatever that means) than the best looking 1 loss team.

Oh, I don't know about that, Felix. Considering each team's schedules, ND was clearly more impressive then Ohio St this year. Yes, the Irish had a few scabdick wins, but look at that schedule of theirs...then check out Ohio St's.

Eight home games. Zero 'big' wins. Scabdick wins against gawdawful Cal, Sparty, Indiana and Purdue plus two more against meh Wisky and Michigan.

I would agree that ND is the least impressive season-ending #1 I've seen but they're certainly not the worst undefeated team. To 88's point, there's also no reason to assume that Ohio St would kick the living shit out of them. In fully half their games the Buckeyes nearly lost to teams that are much worse than the Irish. Put those two on the same field and it's a toss-up.



18-50

If I were to handicap that game (ND vs OSU) I'd probably set it at about ND -3.5. As a fan of a team who played both schools, and someone who watched both schools quite a bit all year long, I was definitely more impressed with ND. MSU could have and should have beaten OSU, in my probably not so unbiased opinion. I felt MSU shot themselves in the foot repeatedly in that game, but ND on the other hand just physically took it to MSU.

Sudden Sam wrote: Word is that a Bama-ND game would draw the biggest TV audience in BCS title game history.

Nothing could possibly outdraw an all-SEC final.

Georgia hasn't finally put anything together aside from that peculiar coincidence where teams suddenly play their best ball right about the time they hit the soft part of their schedule. They beat Florida, sure, but the Gators are also just another UGA-like decent team that took full advantage of all the mediocrity in CFB this year. Other than Florida, the teams they've beat since the USC loss are Kentucky, Ole Miss, Auburn, GA Southern, and GT. Before that loss their only quality win was Vandy. Whatever the line is this week against Bama they should just double it and call it a day.

Van wrote:Oh, I don't know about that, Felix. Considering each team's schedules, ND was clearly more impressive then Ohio St this year. Yes, the Irish had a few scabdick wins, but look at that schedule of theirs...then check out Ohio St's.

ND has a really good defense, but the offense just ain't all that....
a MNC against either Geo or bama will be problematic for the golden domers....I'd venture to say that ND will be a 7 point dog against either of those teams.....

Greg Auman is the beat writer for USF.

He didn't really have a good explanation for voting Ohio State #2.

Felix wrote: ND has a really good defense, but the offense just ain't all that....

Sounds like quite a few BTPCFB national champions.

Felix wrote:

Van wrote:Oh, I don't know about that, Felix. Considering each team's schedules, ND was clearly more impressive then Ohio St this year. Yes, the Irish had a few scabdick wins, but look at that schedule of theirs...then check out Ohio St's.

ND has a really good defense, but the offense just ain't all that....

The same can be said of Ohio St, and the Buckeye D isn't as good as ND's.

a MNC against either Geo or bama will be problematic for the golden domers....I'd venture to say that ND will be a 7 point dog against either of those teams.....

The same would be said about Ohio St.

I don't think ND is on Bama's level. I do, however, think they're clearly on Ohio St's level.


20-50

Felix wrote:ND has a really good defense, but the offense just ain't all that....

I would rather go into the MNC with a good defense and a meh offense, rather than the other way around. ND has a puncher's chance against Bama if they can ugly it up and win something like 16-13. Basically, turn it into your typical Bama-LSU affair.

MuchoBulls wrote:Greg Auman is the beat writer for USF.

He didn't really have a good explanation for voting Ohio State #2.

If he feels they're the second best team then he should rank them #2. The voters who ranked OSU between #8 and #12 clearly factored their probation into it, which I think is horseshit. Either rank them where you feel they should be ranked based on their play on the field, or don't rank them at all.

M Club wrote: Nothing could possibly outdraw an all-SEC final.

I seem to remember we had one of those once.

I seem to recall it was by far the lowest rated MNC game since they started having a MNC game.

People can only take so much of the results of a popularity contest where the people voting in it have a huge financial interest in a small segment of those competing in the popularity contest.

I seem to recall remembering that I was using sarcasm.

MgoBlue-LightSpecial wrote:The voters who ranked OSU between #8 and #12 clearly factored their probation into it, which I think is horseshit.

That or teams built by cheating shouldn't be rewarded for that cheating.

Really, Sam?

We haven't been over this 1000 times?

Way to uphold the Southern stereotype of stupidity.

The rigging of FBS isn't really up for debate.

Remember this one? You know, the one SECBSH whined about, yet couldn't stop whining long enough to actually refute anything about it?

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=41515

When there's a HUGE vested interest by an entity that has a huge say in the outcome of an event... guess what happens?

And even bringing up the Coaches' (much less using it for anything) is pretty stupid. How many Stanford games have the SEC coaches watched this year? If they're doing their job, the answer is "zero." Go ahead and substitute **any conference's coaches** for "SEC coaches" and **any OOC team they didn't play** for "Stanford."


And while the c omputer programmers are very weird about sharing any sort of methodology (things that make you go HMMMMMM), anyone who thinks they're unbiased isn't thinking clearly.

Dinsdale wrote:
The rigging of FBS isn't really up for debate.

Dins, all Oregon had to do was not lose and they're in the championship game and the SEC is out. You're saying that game was rigged? Just stop.

M Club wrote:

MgoBlue-LightSpecial wrote:The voters who ranked OSU between #8 and #12 clearly factored their probation into it, which I think is horseshit.

That or teams built by cheating shouldn't be rewarded for that cheating.

That's why I said to not rank them at all, if that's how you feel. But to say, "I think OSU is the 3rd best team but I'm going to arbitrarily rank them #12 because of that whole probation thing" is dumb.

Python wrote: Dins, all Oregon had to do was not lose and they're in the championship game and the SEC is out.

Pretty much as simple as that. I say "win your games, and you have little to bitch about," just about every year.

But what's done is done, and we're down to debating 1-loss teams' worthiness of a MNC game bid. Of those 1 loss teams, one has a significantly more impressive resume' than the others. Yet those with a vested interest in the outcome aren't acknowledging the obvious.

Aaaaaand another thing -- Oregon blew #15 OS out of their own building.

For this, they were rewarded with a drop in the AP poll, while OS wasn't punished.

They just had to get another SEC team in there. Ridiculous.

I think you're confusing a loss vs. when a loss takes place. Obviously, if you lose later in the season, it can pretty much eliminate a team from the NC game, and allow other one loss teams the chance to move above you in the polls. I know that's common knowledge, but I think a lot of people around here tend to forget it and blame the SEC for their woes.

Python wrote:

Dinsdale wrote:The rigging of FBS isn't really up for debate.

Dins, all Oregon had to do was not lose and they're in the championship game and the SEC is out.

Precisely. Every other team across the nation has to run the table merely to have a chance at getting in. The SEC? They're the only ones who are given a Mulligan. See: Bama last year. They lost to LSU at home under the exact same circumstances as Oregon faced this year. Oregon was unceremoniously tossed from the discussion. Bama's loss was immediately forgiven and they were dropped right back into the title game.

Oh, and Bama lost late in the season this year too, the same as Oregon. That loss to A&M at home was hardly in Week Two.

As always, the SEC team is automatically given the the nod in any tiebreaker situation. It's almost like ESPN the BCS has made it the SEC's birth right. No one has any doubts that a one-loss team like Georgia that got thoroughly destroyed in their one loss will be given the opportunity to win the championship if they beat Alabama, despite the fact that Oregon is clearly the more dominant squad...never mind the additional fact that their sole loss was an OT nail-biter to a very good team.

LSU twice, Florida twice, Bama last year, Bama or Georgia this year; no matter what, the bought-and-paid-for-by-ESPN BCS beauty pageant will always make sure that the SEC is chosen over every other equally deserving team in the land.

Yes, the system is very obviously rigged. Anyone who doesn't see this has their head buried in the sand.


22-50

Oregon's resume is hardly impressive, Dins. There's a reason the computers don't like Oregon and it's because the PAC is so pathetic that they run through it like shit through a goose.....until they face he only good defense in the league, and one of the best in the nation, and get shut down like jtr in a whore house. The weak conference schedule is what did Oregon in, Dins. Alabama was ranked #1 all season until losing to A&M and Oregon, who trailed 'Bama in the polls, had the misfortune of losing on the same weekend. Oregon's defense is pathetic, Dins, absolutely pathetic, and it was exposed on numerous occasions when opponents like USC racked up touchdown after touchdown only to lose to the high powered Oregon offense due to their own pathetic defense. Mikey described Stanford's offense as "inept" and yet they matched Oregon's offensive output in the game (approx. 400 yards total offense). Maybe it's time for Chip to start putting some of his best players on defense instead of loading up his offense and trying to score 60 points a game. He won't, of course, because all of the ADHD fans want to see a lot of points on the scoreboard instead of a defensive battle, and much prefer the video game action until someone like Stanford runs over and unplugs the X-Box.

Sam, it's all rigged. The entire BCS is rigged. All the polls, strength of schedule, computers... all of it. Has been for 6 years straight. Only an SEC homer like us can't see it. I can't believe I never realized it until now. All these teams losing games has nothing to do with any of it. The SEC rules the entire world of college football. Geez, thanks everyone for helping out a country hick like myself.

Mace wrote:Alabama was ranked #1 all season until losing to A&M and Oregon, who trailed 'Bama in the polls, had the misfortune of losing on the same weekend.

I'm afraid your memory is failing you here, old man. Oregon and KSU lost the week after Alabama lost.

MgoBlue-LightSpecial wrote:

M Club wrote:

MgoBlue-LightSpecial wrote:The voters who ranked OSU between #8 and #12 clearly factored their probation into it, which I think is horseshit.

That or teams built by cheating shouldn't be rewarded for that cheating.

That's why I said to not rank them at all, if that's how you feel. But to say, "I think OSU is the 3rd best team but I'm going to arbitrarily rank them #12 because of that whole probation thing" is dumb.

oh, missed that. muh bahd.

made a lot of money off msu this weekend. thanks for that.

Sudden Sam wrote:I didn't realize that only coaches in the southeast voted.

Nor did I know that all the computer polls dudes are located in the southeast.




This moronic idiocy alone discredits the writer in the piece above:

The double standard also allows non-conference victories rolled up by "champions" such as the 2009 Alabama Crimson Tide against the likes of Florida International, North Texas, and Tennessee-Chattanooga to be regarded as evidence of gridiron distinction by those inside the solipsistic cocoon of the self-congratulatory SEC echo chamber.

You act like groupthink isn't an actual thing.

Goober McTuber wrote:

Mace wrote:Alabama was ranked #1 all season until losing to A&M and Oregon, who trailed 'Bama in the polls, had the misfortune of losing on the same weekend.

I'm afraid your memory is failing you here, old man. Oregon and KSU lost the week after Alabama lost.

Correct on both counts....memory is failing and it was Oregon and KSU losing in the same weekend. Thanks, Goobs.

Sudden Sam wrote:Here ya' go, Dins. You and I might can agree on this computer dude's rankings:

http://www.masseyratings.com/rate.php?lg=cf

I see that Laval moved up 90 places in his ratings this week. GIGO.

Sam, I'm saying that Oregon should not be automatically excluded from the title game due to their one loss ("just win all your games and you'll knock the SEC out of the championship") while the one-loss SEC winner is the presumptive opponent for ND in the title game.

Georgia hasn't done a damn thing this year. Mace wants to talk about Oregon's schedule? Take a good look at Georgia's. It's an embarrassment. Moreover, Oregon would be favored by 7-10 points were they to face Georgia or even ND on a neutral field.

You constantly talk about what we "all knew" last year, regarding the obvious superiority of LSU and Bama relative to everybody else. Well, the same holds true this year. We all "know" that Oregon would destroy Georgia and likely ND too, yet their one loss in OT to a very good Stanford team means they have zero shot while Georgia's prison-raping at the hands of South Carolina is fully excused.

Bama is the other presumptive opponent for ND, again despite the fact that they have the same record as Oregon, including a loss at home late in the year.

It's clear that the SEC is not playing by the same rules. The national title game according to ESPN/the BCS boils down to the SEC Winner vs An Opponent, and sometimes that even means the SEC Winner vs an SEC Loser. Just look at this year. All the talk was that we were staring at another Bama vs Florida or Florida-Georgia All SEC Rematch had USC beaten ND and/or Auburn beaten Bama. We would have had quite a decent number of one-loss teams out there yet there was little doubt that everyone else was playing for second or even third place. There is no way in hell that one-loss Kansas State was going to get the nod over one-loss Bama, Florida or Georgia, and it's extremely doubtful that Oregon would have either.

This shit is every bit as rigged as a roulette table in a Shanghai casino.



22-50

Moreover, Oregon would be favored by 7-10 points were they to face Georgia or even ND on a neutral field.

What was the spread for the Oregon-Stanford game?

SEC teams do get the nod over other teams for the NC game and, you know what, they win the fucking game, so maybe there's a good reason for picking them when we're trying to find out who is the best team in the nation. Notre Dame was the team getting hosed by the human polls before last weekend and was clearly favored by the computers due to their tougher schedule. I don't think that the Irish are the best team in college football but, clearly, Oregon isn't either, as they folded their tents when they faced a great defense. Hell, Stanford is probably the best team in the PAC but they fucked up a couple of times and aren't in the NC discussion, but they do have an opportunity to play in the Rose Bowl. Oregon deserves to be excluded from the NCG conversation, barring an Alabama loss in the CCG, because they've already shown what they can do, or can't do, against a good defense, and have repeatedly proved that they have no defense of their own.

If Ohio State were eligible, they'd be playing ND in the title game, and would be about as deserving as the winner of the MAC, because the B1G sucks even more than the PAC. A playoff will likely eliminate the pretenders before the final game but, until then, we're saddled with what we've got. ND vs 'Bama will draw a tv audience and should be a competitive game....and I'm looking forward to watching it.

Mace, how many great offenses did Bama face this year? One. How did that one great offense do against Bama's defense in Bama's own house? Why, they lit them right the fuck up.

How is this any different than your Oregon-Stanford argument? Stanford is every bit as good as A&M. Oregon destroyed every other team on their schedule.

Bottom line, if Oregon deserved to be excluded from the discussion because Stanford "exposed" them, well, Bama needs to be excluded too. They played two ranked teams, of which only one had any semblance of an offense. That one team ran roughshod all over them. Then there's Georgia, thoroughly dismantled by South Carolina.

Other than ND and Ohio St, everyone was "exposed" at least once this season. Oregon? They've lost only three times in three years: 1. On a last-play FG in the title game to Auburn two seasons ago. 2. By a cunt hair to USC last year. 3. In OT (again) to a very good Stanford team this season. Three games in three years, otherwise they've blown out just about everyone else. Clearly, no one has truly exposed them.

Apply your argument equally to each team. Just sayin'.



26-50.

Oh, and I forgot about Oregon's turnover-fest loss to LSU in last year's opener. My bad. So, four losses in three years.


27-50

Apply your argument equally to each team. Just sayin'

I am. Oregon's offense was exposed the first time they played a great defense but their defense was exposed on nearly every weekend of the regular season. Oregon has a high powered offense that can't stand up to being smacked in the mouth and they play defense against no one with a pulse. If 'Bama were to lose their CCG, I'd like to see Oregon play ND for the title but think their offense would be shut down by, what appears to be, a very good defense and, as we all know, anyone can score on Oregon's defense.....even Stanford's "inept" offense (as described by Mikey prior to the Stanford-Oregon game). Barring an Alabama loss this weekend, Oregon doesn't deserve to be in the title game, imo, and they'll very likely get what they deserve....a BCS bowl game, just not the NCG or the Rose Bowl and, when 'Bama beats ND, they can unsuccessfully argue about being considered for #1....assuming they don't face a great defense in their bowl game and get beat.

I guess it's the Tebow effect if you will...say it enough times and it becomes true or people get sick of it...we kept hearing about how good of a QB he was even though people could see flaws...

I am not suggesting that the SEC is flawed...but come on...to have Bama, UGA and UF all in succession to ensure one of them gets to the MNC game...I mean ASSBERGER said at the end of the game the other night ND awaits the winner of the SECCCG there by discarding KSU, Oregon, etc...so if that is said on Saturday night after the ND game...what chance does the rest of the country have. Look Alabama is great team...but UGA and UF? Ok so UF beat LSU...great...and A&M awesome...but jeebezzus they scabdicked by BGUS, La Lafayette, etc...then you got UGA who got cunt punched by South Carolina who fucking struggled with Wofford for cryin out loud...

and UGA didn't exactly face a murderer's row...

so to look at the objectivity of who beat whom and when...I guess it would be ND, Bama, Oregon, and KSU in my eyes with UGA and UF behind them in my opinion...


but again there are some teams with warts in the SEC...look no further than Arkansas and Miss State...Arkansas sucked ass...and MSU played EXACTLY NO ONE and got butt fucked by Ole Miss this past weekend...but somehow bama beating them is some awesome win

and to include UF that high when they didn't win their half of the SEC and not even playing in the SEC TItle game...COME ON

and to include UF that high when they didn't win their half of the SEC and not even playing in the SEC TItle game...COME ON.

Could the same thing not be said about Oregon?

Buckeye, Bama didn't win their half of the SEC nor did they play in the SEC CCG last year and still they were given the berth in the national title game. Had USC beaten ND the same thing was going to happen this year with Florida.

Sam, 'Spray, until you can stand and deliver a decent rebuttal against the specific points brought to your attention you may as well just tap out. "Sure, everyone is just crazy. We should all vote for the Pac 12 1-10!" is nothing but obfuscation. You're avoiding the obvious. You cannot justify the fact that the SEC is being given auto-berths to the title game regardless of anyone else's equal-or-better record, nor can you deny that the system is rigged to give them artificially high rankings across the board every year, thus ensuring that this farce continues unabated.


27-50

Do you mean "artificially high ranking" like USC receives every year? Or Ohio State? Michigan? Penn State? Notre Dame? Oklahoma? Texas? It's hardly limited to the SEC, Van, as all of the traditional college football powers get preferential treatment in the early polling. Oregon gets it now, and they've earned it, and, after finally dropping off the pollsters radar after several years of sucktitude, Notre Dame will be back in the mix.

Mace wrote:Do you mean "artificially high ranking" like USC receives every year? Or Ohio State? Michigan? Penn State? Notre Dame? Oklahoma? Texas? It's hardly limited to the SEC, Van,

As an entire conference goes, yes, it is absolutely limited to the SEC. No one else sees half their conference automatically slotted into the Top 25, with the teams then rising and falling only in replacement of each other. Gotta keep their SOS high, dontchaknow. No other conference enjoys a near-automatic berth in the title game, including a lock-solid nod in any tiebreaker situation.

These things are reserved solely for the SEC.



28-50

Van wrote: As an entire conference goes, yes, it is absolutely limited to the SEC. No one else sees half their conference automatically slotted into the Top 25......

These things are reserved solely for the SEC.



28-50

Gee, I hate to piss in your bowl of PACwhinerism by throwing out some facts, but the AP preseason poll had 6 Big XXII teams in the top 25 (I believe that's over half) and the B1G had 5 (just short of half but Penn State wasn't in there for obvious reasons). Also, it took 4 fucking losses for USC to drop out of the Top 25 and stop benefitting their opponents with SOS for beating a ranked team. I use USC as an example but it works that way in all of the major conferences....and I take some liberties in referring to the B1G as being a major conference this year. So, contrary to your bogus claim, it's not just the SEC....not even close. Oh, and the SEC had 5 teams in the preseason Top 25...just so you know.