T1B

This has to be the worst school shooting yet.

2nd worst to one that happened in 1927 (although that was a bombing).

Horrifying.

I had a call scheduled an hour ago with a woman who lives 5 miles from there, she was bawling when she picked up the phone.

Doesn't Ucant live in Connecticut? What about anyone else?

why the fukk can't these fukking whack jobs just take themselves out?

sure is a good thing that schools are "gun free zones".

Dr. Bob wrote:2nd worst to one that happened in 1927 (although that was a bombing).

Fucking juicer. Slap an asterisk on that one.

smackaholic wrote:
sure is a good thing that schools are "gun free zones".

If only the grade-schoolers were allowed to arm themselves.

White House spokesman Jay Carney said Homeland Security adviser John Brennan informed President Obama of the shooting at 10:30 a.m. "The president is receiving regular updates as more information becomes available," Carney said.

Not to make this political, but, WGAF?

26 people aren't going to go home tonight. This has fukk all to do with the president. of course he will certainly do what he can to get some political mileage from it and once again make the claim that we can prevent this sort of shit by magically making all the guns go away.

There is one thing that could prevent this and that is giving people a chance to defend themselves.

Dr. Bob wrote:2nd worst to one that happened in 1927 (although that was a bombing).

Horrifying.

I had a call scheduled an hour ago with a woman who lives 5 miles from there, she was bawling when she picked up the phone.

Doesn't Ucant live in Connecticut? What about anyone else?

Ucunt went to UConn, but lives in the Boston area. Me and Todd are the only Cters here to my knowledge and todd hasn't been heard from in awhile, and we all know he was a little screwy, so I figure this must be him.

smackaholic wrote:

White House spokesman Jay Carney said Homeland Security adviser John Brennan informed President Obama of the shooting at 10:30 a.m. "The president is receiving regular updates as more information becomes available," Carney said.

Not to make this political, but, WGAF?

26 people aren't going to go home tonight. This has fukk all to do with the president. of course he will certainly do what he can to get some political mileage from it and once again make the claim that we can prevent this sort of shit by magically making all the guns go away.

There is one thing that could prevent this and that is giving people a chance to defend themselves.

SG's Son wrote:If only the grade-schoolers were allowed to arm themselves.

Goober McTuber wrote:

smackaholic wrote:

White House spokesman Jay Carney said Homeland Security adviser John Brennan informed President Obama of the shooting at 10:30 a.m. "The president is receiving regular updates as more information becomes available," Carney said.

Not to make this political, but, WGAF?

26 people aren't going to go home tonight. This has fukk all to do with the president. of course he will certainly do what he can to get some political mileage from it and once again make the claim that we can prevent this sort of shit by magically making all the guns go away.

There is one thing that could prevent this and that is giving people a chance to defend themselves.

SG's Son wrote:If only the grade-schoolers were allowed to arm themselves.

I was thinking more along the line of teachers. Not saying it should be mandatory, but, it should be encouraged. If a teacher thinks they are up to it, they should be given training and be allowed to pack. "Gun free zones" are nothing more than targets for whack job cowards.

smackaholic wrote: "Gun free zones" are nothing more than targets for whack job cowards.

It certainly appears that way. Schools, theaters, malls etc. Some whacko in China stabbed 22 kids in a school there on Wednesday.

I got an email from my kids' school this afternoon announcing an immediate change to the visitor policy. The doors will now be locked and visual and verbal identification must happen before you can enter the school followed by a normal sign-in process etc..

Once the the facts make their way out, I'm sure it was fairly easy for this scumbag to walk into the school with very little scrutiny.

jiminphilly wrote:I got an email from my kids' school this afternoon announcing an immediate change to the visitor policy. The doors will now be locked and visual and verbal identification must happen before you can enter the school followed by a normal sign-in process etc..

Once the the facts make their way out, I'm sure it was fairly easy for this scumbag to walk into the school with very little scrutiny.

Like it would have made any difference in this case.

"Oh, I'm here to visit/kill my mom," this lunatic could have said. School shootings almost always have some sort of personal connection.

Jsc810 wrote:
And look for bullshit to flow from all sides of the gun control debate.

Wrong, and a cheap attempt at equivocation. The bullshit on the issue of gun control is not from both sides at all. The proposals for gun control over the years have generally been sensible and fair. No one has suggested revoking the 2nd amendment. for example, and no one has called for a complete ban on basic weapons of self defense and hunting. No, the sheer torrent of fetid bullshit has come steadily and hysterically from the NRA lock-step right-wing militia types--like 1-malt (nee Mall Cop) who offer the most ludicrous fake arguments imaginable. Look at the Blame It On Washington thread right below where I destroy his tedious and absurdly weak attempt to defend the right of Americans to have whatever weapons they like. Keep it real, or as real as you can.

Sudden Sam wrote:The shooter was 24, killed his mother and all those kids.

Again, right in the wheelhouse for the onset of schizophrenia. I'd like to know what meds he was on.

LTS TRN 2 wrote:The bullshit on the issue of gun control is not from both sides at all.

Correct. It's all on you and your ilk. Guns aren't even the issue here.

Sad sad day.

This is the reason I carry and will continue to carry.

mvscal wrote:

jiminphilly wrote:I got an email from my kids' school this afternoon announcing an immediate change to the visitor policy. The doors will now be locked and visual and verbal identification must happen before you can enter the school followed by a normal sign-in process etc..

Once the the facts make their way out, I'm sure it was fairly easy for this scumbag to walk into the school with very little scrutiny.

Like it would have made any difference in this case.

"Oh, I'm here to visit/kill my mom," this lunatic could have said. School shootings almost always have some sort of personal connection.

Until the facts come out, who knows? But based on how the guy was dressed (hearing fatigues and body armor) and the fact that it's hard to conceal a .22 caliber rifle, I'll go out on a limb and say that no one thought he was there to fix the shitter.

So sad, words cannot describe it. I'm bummed out enough finding out an old friend had passed away this morning. Damn.

mvscal wrote:

LTS TRN 2 wrote:The bullshit on the issue of gun control is not from both sides at all.

Correct. It's all on you and your ilk. Guns aren't even the issue here.

Really? The issue is exactly how a mentally disturbed individual could get four or five guns with huge maxi-clips and body armor so easily. And this has been the issue all along. Or what?

LTS TRN 2 wrote:

mvscal wrote:

LTS TRN 2 wrote:The bullshit on the issue of gun control is not from both sides at all.

Correct. It's all on you and your ilk. Guns aren't even the issue here.

Really?

Really. Guns aren't the problem. Psychos are the problem.

KC Scott wrote:

jiminphilly wrote:I got an email from my kids' school this afternoon announcing an immediate change to the visitor policy. The doors will now be locked and visual and verbal identification must happen before you can enter the school followed by a normal sign-in process etc..

That's the way it is for my kids schools here. All doors are locked - access control & video monitoring in the offices

The PD tactical teams practice active shooter scenarios at an abandoned school in Indep

None of which will mean squat if a shooter simply wishes to break through a window, enter the premises, and begin blasting away. Video monitoring in the office? Yeah? So? Exactly what is Margie 'dere gonna do when confronted with the image of an armed-to-the-teeth Derron gone full-on fruitloop? Smack him with a ruler?

No, she'll call 911. By the time the police get there the damage will have been done.

Van wrote:Exactly what is Margie 'dere gonna do when confronted with the image of an armed-to-the-teeth Derron gone full-on fruitloop? Smack him with a ruler?

Emptying her magazine center mass as he comes bursting through the window seems like a pretty good idea to me.

What the fuck is with your fetish for helplessness?

mvscal wrote:

Van wrote:Exactly what is Margie 'dere gonna do when confronted with the image of an armed-to-the-teeth Derron gone full-on fruitloop? Smack him with a ruler?

Empty her magazine center mass as he comes bursting through the window seems like a pretty good idea to me.

Oh, okay. Your sweet old grandmother sitting in some monitoring office halfway across campus is going to drop her Sudoku game and go Rambo on some armed intruder, and she's going to get there in time to prevent Derron from going Derron?

Been watching a lot of old westerns on late-night TV, have you?

What the fuck is with your fetish for helplessness?

Paint me a realistic picture of how this very scenario couldn't have happened to your child, 'cause, you know, you and he are such take-charge badasses and all.

KC Scott wrote:

jiminphilly wrote:I got an email from my kids' school this afternoon announcing an immediate change to the visitor policy. The doors will now be locked and visual and verbal identification must happen before you can enter the school followed by a normal sign-in process etc..

That's the way it is for my kids schools here. All doors are locked - access control & video monitoring in the offices

The PD tactical teams practice active shooter scenarios at an abandoned school in Independence.

All the access control in the world won't fix this. Kids and teachers come and go to schools every day. A nut job can simply show up at this time. We can't man every school with dedicated security officers. We can allow teachers that are able and willing to, have the means to defend themselves and their students.

No, the clear issue is how to prevent psychos from getting guns. Okay? And this means some serious procedures and restrictions on buying guns. And of course it means the same seriously increased restrictions on buying assault rifles and maxi-clips, armor piecing bullets, etc. We notice you don't have an argument to defend your hissing vehemence. Your attempt to roll out the congressional powers was appallingly stupid and was rolled up like taco. What the fuck are you, 1-malt? I mean besides a seething little out of shape creep?

More guns is the answer.

jiminphilly wrote:Until the facts come out, who knows? But based on how the guy was dressed (hearing fatigues and body armor) and the fact that it's hard to conceal a .22 caliber rifle, I'll go out on a limb and say that no one thought he was there to fix the shitter.

This time of year it is very easy to arm yourself to the teeth with no one having a clue. You would be amazed at the armory that can be concealed by a puffy coat.

Screw_Michigan wrote:More guns is the answer.

Yup, in the hands of the non-batshit crazy folk.

mvscal wrote:
Really. Guns aren't the problem. Psychos are the problem.

and all psychos carry guns.


Starting to ring a bell yet idiot ???




Or let me rephrase it... "all gun owners are psychos".


If you feel the need to carry heat on your person... you've got some serious mental issues.

smackaholic wrote:

Screw_Michigan wrote:More guns is the answer.

Yup, in the hands of the non-batshit crazy folk.

And you propose to identify them well in advance, how?

Incomprehensible.

LTS TRN 2 wrote:No, the clear issue is how to prevent psychos from getting guns. Okay?

WRONG.

The clear issue is psychos and what to do with them. Their access to guns is, in and of itself, irrelevant. If they can't be trusted with guns then they can't be trusted with matches either. Arsonists kill hundreds year in and year out (far, far more than school shooters) yet we never hear a peep about "match control." And why should we? It would be fucking stupid. Every bit as fucking stupid as gun control.

Left Seater wrote:Sad sad day.

This is the reason I carry and will continue to carry.

I hate that something like this forces the responsible gun owners to "stick to their guns" even more. You guys obviously aren't the problem. It's lunatics that can get their hands on weapons that leads to stuff like this. One of the reasons we lose certain rights is because some take things way too far when they're given too much leash. Even if you kept everyone from having guns...the wrong people are going to get their hands on them somehow or bad people will find other ways to harm people.

This is a sickening event...my thoughts are with the victims' families.

jiminphilly wrote:I got an email from my kids' school this afternoon announcing an immediate change to the visitor policy. The doors will now be locked and visual and verbal identification must happen before you can enter the school followed by a normal sign-in process etc..

Once the the facts make their way out, I'm sure it was fairly easy for this scumbag to walk into the school with very little scrutiny.

That is the policy implemented at Sandy Hook Elementary at the beginning of this school year.

How in the fuck can you gimps, regardless of how you feel about gun control, look at this in such a fucked up way?

Since the criminals will always have guns regardless, how about a law enforcement presence in the school. Many middle and high schools have this already. With the ability to secure all exits once school is in session, a combination of LE and cameras would prevent another tragedy.

With two grandsons in K and 2nd grade, this shit hits close to home. My sympathies to the victims and their families.

FLW Buckeye wrote:How in the fuck can you gimps, regardless of how you feel about gun control, look at this in such a fucked up way?

Since the criminals will always have guns regardless, how about a law enforcement presence in the school. Many middle and high schools have this already. With the ability to secure all exits once school is in session, a combination of LE and cameras would prevent another tragedy.

With two grandsons in K and 2nd grade, this shit hits close to home. My sympathies to the victims and their families.

I don't think a single armed guard will do it. For one, it's expensive. Also, if you have one person who is the designated protector, he can be taken out by a nutjob with some planning ability. Having multiple unknown armed people is a better idea, IMO.

Yep, let's build bunkers around the teacher's desk. Don't forget to sandbag the walls to keep the nuts from assaulting through a window.

On this evening's local news (KY3 Springfield MO), they talked of how there are 55 schools in the city, which tie up 21 officers from the SPD. Most small to large cities have a police presence in some of the schools already. The problem will be with the rural districts.

It won't be cheap, but it needs to be done. Once it's in place, then debate about guns til the sun goes down.

mvscal wrote:The clear issue is psychos and what to do with them.

So what's your solution?

Their access to guns is, in and of itself, irrelevant. If they can't be trusted with guns then they can't be trusted with matches either. Arsonists kill hundreds year in and year out (far, far more than school shooters) yet we never hear a peep about "match control." And why should we? It would be fucking stupid. Every bit as fucking stupid as gun control.

Of course it would be fucking stupid, because you can produce fire without a match. Kinda tough to pull off a massacre without a gun, unless you're an expert bomb-maker, and not too many dickslap 22 year olds living in their parents' basement have the knowledge, skill or resources for that.

It isn't feasible to restrict every possible inanimate thing that can kill someone, but doing so for objects specifically made to shoot and kill at a high volume would seem like a fair line.

Telling teaches they can start packing heat is fine and dandy, but just because they could doesn't mean they would. Gun owners tend to fit a certain demographic, and I'm going to take a wild guess and say that liberal educators and 60 year old women don't represent a large chunk of that statistic.

Even if Mrs. Crabapple had her piece on her, it is difficult to say what would transpire. There are a lot of variables that come into play, even if all the badasses think they've got it all mapped out in their head. There is a good chance when faced with that situation, fear takes over and you're running for cover. There's also a good chance you're not wearing a bullet proof vest and the psycho is, so even if you do decide to play Rambo, you'll need a clean head shot to take him out. How close will you be able to get to do that, and how good of a shot are you? Are you spending all your Saturday afternoons at the gun range? Even if you are, you can't simulate this situation. So, you're a soiled mess and letting bullets fly...who's to say you don't take out a couplefew innocent peeps running frantically this way and that way? And oh hey, SWAT shows up, and maybe they mistake you (or someone else wielding a firearm) for the shooter. Of course, you probably never got that far to begin with, because you're dead instead of smartly getting the fuck out of there.

So put armed guards in every school, and best case scenario, that deters the psycho to go somewhere else to carry out his plan. And at the end of the day, 20-some people are still dead.

Let's say you are batshit crazy wannabe mass murderer. Would you rather have a target with one easily identified defender or possibly dozens of unknown defenders?

MgoBlue-LightSpecial wrote:

mvscal wrote:The clear issue is psychos and what to do with them.

So what's your solution?

Their access to guns is, in and of itself, irrelevant. If they can't be trusted with guns then they can't be trusted with matches either. Arsonists kill hundreds year in and year out (far, far more than school shooters) yet we never hear a peep about "match control." And why should we? It would be fucking stupid. Every bit as fucking stupid as gun control.

Of course it would be fucking stupid, because you can produce fire without a match. Kinda tough to pull off a massacre without a gun, unless you're an expert bomb-maker, and not too many dickslap 22 year olds living in their parents' basement have the knowledge, skill or resources for that.

It isn't feasible to restrict every possible inanimate thing that can kill someone, but doing so for objects specifically made to shoot and kill at a high volume would seem like a fair line.

Telling teaches they can start packing heat is fine and dandy, but just because they could doesn't mean they would. Gun owners tend to fit a certain demographic, and I'm going to take a wild guess and say that liberal educators and 60 year old women don't represent a large chunk of that statistic.

Even if Mrs. Crabapple had her piece on her, it is difficult to say what would transpire. There are a lot of variables that come into play, even if all the badasses think they've got it all mapped out in their head. There is a good chance when faced with that situation, fear takes over and you're running for cover. There's also a good chance you're not wearing a bullet proof vest and the psycho is, so even if you do decide to play Rambo, you'll need a clean head shot to take him out. How close will you be able to get to do that, and how good of a shot are you? Are you spending all your Saturday afternoons at the gun range? Even if you are, you can't simulate this situation. So, you're a soiled mess and letting bullets fly...who's to say you don't take out a couplefew innocent peeps running frantically this way and that way? And oh hey, SWAT shows up, and maybe they mistake you (or someone else wielding a firearm) for the shooter. Of course, you probably never got that far to begin with, because you're dead instead of smartly getting the fuck out of there.

So put armed guards in every school, and best case scenario, that deters the psycho to go somewhere else to carry out his plan. And at the end of the day, 20-some people are still dead.

Many teachers won't want the gig, but, some will. I suspect a fair number of the custodial staff would. As for the perp having a flak jacket on, maybe he will, maybe he won't. no matter, you shoot him in the chest a few times and he ain't gonna like it much and it will put a bit of a kink in his killing for a short spell, anyway.