The SEC Bias (an oldie, but a goodie)

The Seer · Post by **The Seer** » Thu Dec 05, 2013 5:01 am

Wordy....but just another exercise in the discussion of items that would be corrected with a 16 team playoff.

R-Jack · Post by **R-Jack** » Thu Dec 05, 2013 5:12 am

Or rankings to begin October 1

MiketheangrydrunkenCUfan · Thu Dec 05, 2013 7:39 am

The Seer wrote:Wordy....but just another exercise in the discussion of items that would be corrected with a 16 team playoff.

Unfortunately, a 16-team playoff would also correct that pesky little item we've come to know and cherish as "a meaningful regular season."

Goober McTuber · Post by **Goober McTuber** » Thu Dec 05, 2013 1:46 pm

Papa Willie wrote:About Chuck

Chuck ThompsonFormerly a features editor for Maxim and editor-in-chief of Travelocity magazine, and current editorial director for CNNGo.com, CHUCK THOMPSON is the author of the widely acclaimed comic travel memoirs Smile When You’re Lying and To Hellholes and Back, as well as a two-volume World War II survey (The 25 Best World War II Sites: Pacific Theater and The 25 Essential World War II Sites: European Theater), regarded as the most comprehensive catalogue of World War II sites in existence.

Raised in Juneau, Alaska, he graduated from the University of Oregon with degrees in history and journalism; he has lived in Japan, Hong Kong, New York City, Dallas, and Portland, Oregon, and traveled on assignment in more than 50 countries. Thompson’s writing and photography have appeared in numerous publications including Outside, Men’s Journal, Atlantic Monthly, Esquire, Hustler, Cowboys & Indians, and the Los Angeles Times.

Wow. I thought you were going to expose him as some kind of two-bit hack. Dude is obviously intelligent and quite accomplished. Excellent read.

The Seer · Post by **The Seer** » Thu Dec 05, 2013 4:14 pm

MiketheangrydrunkenCUfan wrote:
The Seer wrote:Wordy....but just another exercise in the discussion of items that would be corrected with a 16 team playoff.
Unfortunately, a 16-team playoff would also correct that pesky little item we've come to know and cherish as "a meaningful regular season."

16 teams is a 3 week playoff...how long until the last bowl game is played after the final regular season game nowadays?

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Thu Dec 05, 2013 6:25 pm

Really shocked by SECBSH's(PW) response -- ad hominem. Accompanied by the typical Southern-flavored reading comprehension and grasp of them number thingies.

Killian · Post by **Killian** » Thu Dec 05, 2013 6:35 pm

While it's not the SEC, the level of southern BSH for Florida State is getting pretty comical, especially by the WWL. All the talk of Auburn possibly jumping OSU because of the Buckeye's weak schedule, yet narry a peep on FSU's schedule which is actually worse than OSU's. (64 to 68 at last check).

But southern football is the only football, so they good, them bad. WHHHHOOOOOOOIIIEEEEE!!!!

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Thu Dec 05, 2013 7:02 pm

So the defense against ad hominem is to reinforce ad hominem?

Since you Southern Folk ain't none too good at this "brains" stuff, I'll help you out...

You might try addressing the actual substance of the article, and point out any parts you disagree with. I'll help you out some more -- pretty much all of the retarded SECBSH talking points are addressed, and his points are backed up with empirical data.

Doing this will help you not get laughed out of any reasonable debate, which is your norm.

L45B · Post by **L45B** » Thu Dec 05, 2013 7:02 pm

Killian wrote:While it's not the SEC, the level of southern BSH for Florida State is getting pretty comical, especially by the WWL. All the talk of Auburn possibly jumping OSU because of the Buckeye's weak schedule, yet narry a peep on FSU's schedule which is actually worse than OSU's. (64 to 68 at last check).

But southern football is the only football, so they good, them bad. WHHHHOOOOOOOIIIEEEEE!!!!

^^Ding Ding Ding.

That, and FSU and Tallahassee PD possibly completely swept the whole Winston rape investigation under the rug, and yet again-- NOT A PEEP.

OSU's starting o-lineman flips the double bird to scUM fans and Urban Meyer is the worst human on the planet.

Fact is, people love hating on Ohio State. But it's okay, we get why.

MiketheangrydrunkenCUfan · Thu Dec 05, 2013 7:25 pm

The Seer wrote:
MiketheangrydrunkenCUfan wrote:
The Seer wrote:Wordy....but just another exercise in the discussion of items that would be corrected with a 16 team playoff.
Unfortunately, a 16-team playoff would also correct that pesky little item we've come to know and cherish as "a meaningful regular season."

16 teams is a 3 week playoff...how long until the last bowl game is played after the final regular season game nowadays?

I'm not saying a playoff that big would shorten the regular season, just that it would exponentially reduce its meaningfulness. College football currently has the greatest regular season in all of sports, and you're willing to throw that all away for some fluky, "December Madness" cash grab? On what basis could a three-loss (or worse, if we're handing out automatic bids to conference champs) #16 seed stake a claim to a legitimate national championship?

If there's one thing the BCS era has made crystal (football) clear, it's that two teams are not enough. But I can think of only one year in the BCS era (2007) when a four-team playoff wouldn't have been sufficient to decide a true national champion. That's a 94% success rate. I'm fine with that. An eight-team playoff would solve it that extra 6% of the time, but would still reduce the importance of the regular season 100% of the time, since two-loss teams would almost certainly be included every year.

Back in January of this year, I drove down to Tucson and watched the Buffs get hosed in a basketball game against Arizona, when the refs waved off CU's game-winning three-pointer at the buzzer. I'm sure you remember the shot being replayed countless times on SportsCenter, with every angle showing it had left his hands before the clock hit all zeroes. Do you know how I felt after that loss? Mildly bummed. It was a shitty way to lose a game, but in the grand scheme of things, it didn't really matter much, since we'd both be in the "Big Dance" in March. Oh well. Shit happens, but life goes on, right?

The bottom line is, I don't ever want to feel that degree of nonchalance about a regular season college football game. At that point, we might as well just be watching the NFL, which means the terrorists have already won.

MgoBlue-LightSpecial · Thu Dec 05, 2013 7:36 pm

MiketheangrydrunkenCUfan wrote:College football currently has the greatest regular season in all of sports

Not really. The problem we have with the current system is there's SO much emphasis on going undefeated, that teams are too afraid to play decent competition out of conference. All these teams with bloated records and rankings is sickening. Nobody cares WHO you play, it's all about going 12-0 or 13-0 in a BCS conference. We have but a small handful of good ooc games every year because of this, and when we do hear of a good future match-up in the making it seems like one of the two team's always ends up bailing.

And then at the end of the season, all we hear is people bickering over resumes on the basis of, "they didn't play anybody." Perhaps with an extended playoff teams would be more willing to test themselves out of conference knowing that a loss or two won't ruin their season. Or just place more value and emphasis on SOS into the at-large selection process, like they do in college basketball, to give more teams motivation to schedule Alabama not South Alabama.

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Thu Dec 05, 2013 7:46 pm

Dinsdale wrote:So the defense against ad hominem is to reinforce ad hominem?

Ain't that what they make grits out of?

MiketheangrydrunkenCUfan · Thu Dec 05, 2013 7:52 pm

MgoBlue-LightSpecial wrote:Perhaps with an extended playoff teams would be more willing to test themselves out of conference knowing that a loss or two won't ruin their season.

Perhaps, but you and I both know it's highly doubtful unless college football undergoes some sort of major overhaul that includes balanced scheduling based on predetermined criteria.

The SEC scheduled their annual OOC cupcake feast for decades before the BCS existed. There's no reason to think they wouldn't continue to do so if we expand the playoff to 16 teams. At that point, it'd just be an exercise in how many of their overinflated teams they could get in.

Edit: And two losses SHOULD ruin your season if you're only playing 12 games.

MgoBlue-LightSpecial · Thu Dec 05, 2013 8:28 pm

Cfb is like pizza and sex. When it sucks, it's still good. I'll watch it under any format, but I'm just not as enamored with its regular season as other people, I guess.

A 16 team playoff, I could take it or leave it. I think an 8 team playoff would be ideal. Take five league champs (ACC, Big 12, Big Ten, Pac 12 & SEC) with at-large berths for the other three spots, putting HEAVY emphasis on ooc SOS.

Goober McTuber · Post by **Goober McTuber** » Thu Dec 05, 2013 8:56 pm

MgoBlue-LightSpecial wrote:Cfb is like pizza and sex. When it sucks, it's still good.

Sex, yes. Pizza, no. I mean, pizza and pussy can both be inedible, but there's other opptions with the sex.

The Seer · Post by **The Seer** » Thu Dec 05, 2013 10:32 pm

MgoBlue-LightSpecial wrote: A 16 team playoff, I could take it or leave it. I think an 8 team playoff would be ideal. Take five league champs (ACC, Big 12, Big Ten, Pac 12 & SEC) with at-large berths for the other three spots, putting HEAVY emphasis on ooc SOS.

Pretty bullet-proof argument.

Left Seater · Post by **Left Seater** » Fri Dec 06, 2013 4:25 pm

Yeah, major props for beating teams from the American and C-USA conferences that finished higher in their conf than their SEC opponent did in theirs.

MgoBlue-LightSpecial · Fri Dec 06, 2013 5:05 pm

Papa Willie wrote:Ya ever noticed that in most of the bowl games the SEC is playing in, that their lower seeded teams are always playing higher seeds from the other conferences - but still normally win?

Ya ever noticed that the Big Ten always plays the SEC in its own backyard in bowl games, and the record is still 19-19? I'd say that's BODE for the B1G.

"Seeding" doesn't really mean anything, especially when some conferences are constructed differently, not all teams play each other, varying # of teams, etc. You have to drill deeper and compare two teams based on record, ranking, SOS, etc. In 2011, a 2-loss MSU team ranked #17 played a 3-loss Georgia ranked #16. Pretty damn even match up, wouldn't you say?

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Fri Dec 06, 2013 5:38 pm

I see PW STILL hasn't read the article. Once again, that talking point was addressed.

And the "Our #5 team beat the #3 team from the Sunbelt!!!!!!!" thing is pretty pathetic.

L45B · Post by **L45B** » Fri Dec 06, 2013 5:49 pm

In defense of SECBSH, the h-to-h records posted above I believe exclude last year's bowls. So those numbers are now a little more favorable than when that article was originally written.

Goober McTuber · Post by **Goober McTuber** » Fri Dec 06, 2013 6:19 pm

L45B wrote:In defense of SECBSH

What, are you one of those for-sale-at-any-price lawyers?

L45B · Post by **L45B** » Fri Dec 06, 2013 6:50 pm

No, not at all.

Of everything that is written in that article, the most relevant argument is this one:

It's a chicken-or-the-egg situation. Does the SEC get favorable rankings because it's so good? Or is the SEC so good because it gets favorable rankings? I argue for the latter.

Charts and graphs to follow (if my day allows :) )...

Killian · Post by **Killian** » Fri Dec 06, 2013 8:08 pm

SECBSH wrote:Finally - who in the fuck wants to play in a game up north in late August/September?

Fixed that for all of you.

The Seer · Post by **The Seer** » Fri Dec 06, 2013 8:38 pm

Killian wrote:
SECBSH wrote:Finally - who in the fuck wants to play in a game up north in late August/September?
Fixed that for all of you.

Goober McTuber · Post by **Goober McTuber** » Fri Dec 06, 2013 8:42 pm

Papa Willie wrote:
Killian wrote:
SECBSH wrote:Finally - who in the fuck wants to play in a game up north in late August/September?
Fixed that for all of you.
Pretty sure most would rather play up there during those months.

Pretty sure most would just as soon not travel out of their own area code.

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Fri Dec 06, 2013 8:56 pm

Papa Willie wrote:
Goober McTuber wrote:
Pretty sure most would just as soon not travel out of their own area code.

Other than going to Arizona State - where did WisCONsin go?

Really?

Why don't you go ahead and compare Wisky's OOC travels to ANY SEC team's in recent years.

I'll be holding my breath awaiting your response.

Killian · Post by **Killian** » Fri Dec 06, 2013 8:59 pm

Yeah Goober, besides 25% of it's OOC schedule, how many other times did Wisconsin get on a plane and play two time zones away?

:doh:

Goober McTuber · Post by **Goober McTuber** » Fri Dec 06, 2013 9:17 pm

Papa Willie wrote:
Goober McTuber wrote:
Pretty sure most would just as soon not travel out of their own area code.

Other than going to Arizona State - where did WisCONsin go?

Well, we went to Corvallis last year. Las Vegas two years before that. And Fresno before that. We’re headed south to play both LSU and Alabama the next few years.

I believe the last time Allbarn ventured out of the deep south was Morgantown in 2008. Try again, tubby.

Goober McTuber · Post by **Goober McTuber** » Fri Dec 06, 2013 9:38 pm

Papa Willie wrote:This is usually how it ends up.

When the SEC wins most of it's bowl games (unlike the other conferences), the bitter ones finally start crying about traveling.

So much jealousy!

You were the one who asked about Wisky's travel schedule.

So much retardedness!

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Fri Dec 06, 2013 9:38 pm

For once, could the SECBSHs post something that doesn't reinforce the "idiot Southerner" stereotype?

Is that too much to ask?

L45B · Post by **L45B** » Fri Dec 06, 2013 9:50 pm

The best point this article makes is the fact that each and every year the preseason rankings are filled with 4-5 SEC teams (based on the hype fed in by ESPN and major media contributors), most of which end up having average to shitty seasons, for whatever reason.

However, due to the nature of the schedule and these lofty, artificial opinions of these teams, there is also an inherent artificial ranking value placed on other teams beating them. And because the SEC typically only plays its own (outside of the occassional battle with Furman or The Citadel), the conference never loses its stranglehold on the top spots in the polls.

Let's take a glance at this year's preseason rankings and quickly identify those who don't quite belong.

And also a little timeline of each of these teams' average ranking throughout the season. To no surprise, especially if you crunched the numbers like I did, the three teams that influenced the most positive fluctuation in the two major polls out of the entire FBS pool were ________, ________ and ________. You guessed it!

And let's take a look at the two teams that benefitted the most. In one week, Missouri moved 11 spots in the AP Poll (12 spots in the USA Today poll) after beating... hmmm... Georgia? The only other team to move up more spots in that amount of time was... drumroll... you guessed it! Auburn. The Tigers moved up 13 places in the AP Poll (9 in the USA Today poll) after beating... Texas A&M. Hmmmmm...

To no surprise once again, these are the same two teams playing for the SEC championship and garnering much attention on potentially jumping an undefeated team in the BCS. Coincidence? I think not.

Georgia, A&M and Florida. Three highly mediocre teams. Well, I take that back. Two mediocre teams, one really shitty team. But oh do they garner quite a lot of pull in the college football world. When you get to play them.

Let's face it, it's a rigged deck from the very start of every season.

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Fri Dec 06, 2013 10:13 pm

Isee you don't address the SEC's losing record against the PAC in the BCS era.

MgoBlue-LightSpecial · Sat Dec 07, 2013 1:11 am

Papa Willie wrote:Ya ever notice how there are more people in Florida from where YOU live than people who are actually from the South?

In my 13 years of living there, no, I hadn't noticed that. Do you have any numbers to back up that claim?

Crowd turnout isn't really a factor, anyway, unless one fan base totally engulfs another. Most of these games are played in half empty stadiums. The advantage has more to do with far less travel, familiarity with the environments, climate, etc. I'm not saying it's a significant advantage, but enough to make that 19-19 stat look more impressive for the B1G.

Big Ten #2 vs. SEC #2
Big Ten #5 vs. SEC #6
Big Ten #3 vs. SEC #3

Wow, so much imbalance there. You sure showed me.

MgoBlue-LightSpecial · Sat Dec 07, 2013 2:25 pm

Anna Maria Island and Sarasota.

Goober McTuber · Post by **Goober McTuber** » Mon Dec 09, 2013 1:23 pm

Papa Willie wrote:Goobs - other than Arizona, Wisconsin didn't go outside of the Central Time Zone.

Wrong. As usual.

Screw_Michigan · Post by **Screw_Michigan** » Mon Dec 09, 2013 1:30 pm

The stupid is strong in Spray in this thread.

Goober McTuber · Post by **Goober McTuber** » Mon Dec 09, 2013 6:34 pm

You do understand that Wisconsin regularly schedules a home-and-home with other BCS conference schools, right fatso? But Allbarn hasn't played outside of the deep south in 5 years. That was the point you were trying to dodge.

Goober McTuber · Post by **Goober McTuber** » Mon Dec 09, 2013 7:49 pm

Papa Willie wrote:
Goober McTuber wrote:You do understand that Wisconsin regularly schedules a home-and-home with other BCS conference schools, right fatso? But Allbarn hasn't played outside of the deep south in 5 years. That was the point you were trying to dodge.
Well - at least Wisconsin wins the NC every year, so you've got that. At least you got Tennessee Tech, Massachewshits and Purdue at home! At least Wisky played 3 teams that were in the Top 25. Auburn only played 6 that ESPN manuevered into the Top 25.

:grin:

Western Carolina, Samford, Tennessee-Chattanooga, Furman, Tennessee-Martin, Tennessee-Abraham and Tennessee-John all think you raise very valid points.

Auburn played Tennessee Tech themselves as recently as 2007 you simple-minded fuck.

Goober McTuber · Post by **Goober McTuber** » Mon Dec 09, 2013 9:09 pm

Sudden Sam wrote:What'll you be saying when the SEC continues to win NCs in the 4-team playoff system and the eventual 8 or 16 team playoffs?

Kind of depends on how much the SEC is able to corrupt the new system.

Left Seater · Post by **Left Seater** » Tue Dec 10, 2013 4:03 pm

schmick wrote:

November games vs 1aa teams is total corruption of the system, make all games vs 1aa schools no longer count as a win.

The conferences arent all playing by the same rules now. It doesnt matter if there is a 4, 8, 16 or even 32 team playoff system, until all the conferences play by the same rules, it wont matter

Sounds good on paper, but it isn't that black and white.

What do you then do about 1A schools like Cal, FIU, Idaho, New Mexico, etc that are horrible. These teams would get worked by, Sam Houston, Eastern Washington and a few others. You pointed out that Stanford should get more credit for a loss than Bama should for a win over Chattanooga. If that is the case, ATM should get more credit for the win over Sam Houston than any PAC 12 team did for their win over Cal.