T1B

I had an interesting discussion with two ladies this morning on a flight to Colorado Springs. It was a last minute positioning flight for me and as such I got the middle seat. Since I am flying shortly I was in uniform for this commercial flight. As such I expect a few questions from those who don't understand the dynamics of flight (sup LTS), those who understand and want to share their knowledge (sup white, middle age road warriors), fellow pilots flying non commercial (sup Derron, AP, Cuda), and the worst of all chatty middle age white ladies traveling without their kids.

The two ladies sharing my row were of the final variety, and I resigned myself to that fate before even getting my bag in the overhead. Normally I would immediately put on the Bose noise canceling headphones and pull out a book. Problem was the headphones died on the previous flight and new batteries were in my checked bag and I was almost done with the current book.

As expected not 15 seconds after I sat down did I get the first question. Where are you going? Blah, blah, blah, fly for what airline, blah, blah, blah, how many kids do we have, blah, blah, did I watch the Olympics last night? In response to the last question I threw out a response without any thought along the lines of "I did see some of the moguls, but usually only watch the actual sports." This got the attention of both ladies immediately. The one in the window seat says, "what do you mean by actual sports? Everything in the Olympics is a sport.".

Oh crap, I just opened the door to a long discussion. I explained that anything that was judged was not a sport, but an exhibition or performance. The lady on the aisle drops some thought with the word misogynistic in it. I explain it has nothing to do with gender. She fires back with I doubt you could do what those figure skaters could do. I return her volley and agree that it is very difficult but then so is skiing moguls, but that doesn't make it a sport. I also can't paint a picture so that it looks like a photograph, which is very difficult, but that doesn't make it a sport. She just frowned.

Meanwhile, the lady in the window says so what of what they showed last night was a sport. I asked her what exactly NBC showed last night other than women's moguls. She said slope style snowboarding and figure skating of some kind. I told her none of those were sports because all had a subjective human judging element. She frowned. Then she looks at me and asks so no snowboarding events are sports? I ask if there is one where the race from the top of the hill to the bottom with no judging of style or jumps. She says she thinks there is. I say that is prolly a sport.

Aisle seat jumps back in with so the men compete in sports and the women perform exhibitions, huh? I say no you are wrong. Women compete in many sports like hockey, downhill, slalom, cross country, ski jumping, curling, etc. She frowns again as she says so CURLING is a sport and not figure skating? I replay exactly and she frowns again and makes a hrummmmph noise.

Window seat jumps back in and want my definition of sport. I think for a few seconds and say that a sport must have zero subjective judging, and either employ a task for which points are awarded and a running tally kept until game or match ends by predetermined criteria, or is a race against the clock or another competitor, or one competitor forces their opponent to surrender or concede, or one competitor thru their skill and actions makes it such that their opponent can no longer continue in accordance with the rules.

Window seat then starts listing things and I reply with sport or not. On a few of them, chess (sport) and gymnasticts (not a sport) especially, there are groans or grunts from aisle seat, but we ignore her at this point.

So do y'all agree with that definition or no?

If Chess is a sport, then what about Risk, Monopoly and Chutes and Ladders?

Spelling Bee?

Just call it competition. Discussion over.

How 'bout boxing?

I think it is sort of a grey area. Assuming it goes the distance, it is based on a subjective scoring system. If somebody gets knocked the fukk out, it is more of a 'sport'.

smackaholic wrote:How 'bout boxing?

I think it is sort of a grey area. Assuming it goes the distance, it is based on a subjective scoring system. If somebody gets knocked the fukk out, it is more of a 'sport'.

Pretty much. Figure skating is nothing more than a glorified beauty contest. Shit, beauty contests have more integrity because they don't pretend to GAF about any sort of athletic pretense.

smackaholic wrote:How 'bout boxing?

I think it is sort of a grey area. Assuming it goes the distance, it is based on a subjective scoring system. If somebody gets knocked the fukk out, it is more of a 'sport'.

Marathon Dancing would go into a similar category.

Baseball has a good deal of subject judging. Is it a sport?

smackaholic wrote:Baseball has a good deal of subject judging. Is it a sport?

I was thinking of football and baseball both having subjective judging but, if you go by the definition of subjective vs. objective, there is some judgement involved but it's more objective (fact based, unbiased, observable) than subjective (opinion, interpretation, comparison).

I don't have an objective definition for what is a sport and what is not. As a general rule, I would say that an activity tends not to be a sport the more of the following qualities that it possesses:

- The winner cannot be determined in an objective manner (e.g., figure skating, gymnastics, mogul skiing, snowboarding, diving, team cheerleading). Note that while officiating in virtually any type of sport involves some degree of subjectivity, the overall winner is not determined by purely subjective criteria in football and baseball, e.g.

- There is little to no strenuous physical activity involved (e.g., chess, golf, bowling).

- Many top-notch competitors do not reach their prime until relatively later in life -- 40 or after (e.g., chess, golf, bowling, distance running).

- The word "athletic" has a negative connotation (figure skating).

- Top-notch competitors compete in the activity while wearing street clothing (e.g., chess, golf, bowling).

The mere fact that an activity is difficult does not make it a sport. All of the activities I've mentioned are difficult, especially at the highest level of competition. So too is brain surgery, but I doubt anyone would call that a sport.

jsc, posting a pic of a wednesday night beer league bowler, then posting a pic of a high level gymnast is apples and handgrenades.

lets see you go on the tour and routinely score in the 220-230 range on lanes that were oiled by the marque de sade. pro bowlers can do this and it takes a pretty fukking high level of athletic ability to do it.

can you be a fat ass and do it?

sure.

there are fat asses in the nfl and mlb as well. doesn't mean they aren't athletes.

same thing applies with golf. if you are at the top level of the sport, you sure the fukk do have some sort of athletic talent. jack nicklaus could have played pro football. i suspect that a good number of high level golfer/bowlers could have played "real sports".

Jsc, you missed the point a bit. Just because an event requires athleticism, doesn't qualify it as a sport. Neither gymnastics or chess or any other number of games or performances/activities, fall under the framework of a "sport". The definition of sport is usually defined as follows:

Sport:

1. An athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature, as racing, baseball, tennis, golf, bowling, wrestling, boxing, hunting, fishing, etc.
2. A particular form of this, especially in the out of doors.
3. Diversion; recreation; pleasant pastime.
4. Jest; fun; mirth; pleasantry: What he said in sport was taken seriously.
5. Mockery; ridicule; derision: They made sport of him.

Now obviously for the sake of this topic, you can discount 2 - 5. So going with just number 1, you can still see there is a gray area in the opinions expressed here. I don't believe that hunting, as example, is a sport. It might be considered sporting (the prey might disagree), but hunting is an activity. As is fishing. Though you can have competitions with scoring and awards for both, they don't compare with say football or basketball, both true sports. Hell yes gymnastics requires amazing athletic skill and strength, but it is an event. A competition. It's judged without the outcome being determined by the competitors either winning or losing due to a one-on-one besting of each other through a point system, that is determined by what they put out on the field of play, not someone's opinion. Bowling comes into the gray area due to it being based on direct competition. It takes a certain skill set, but it isn't athletic by any stretch, even though by definition, it fits as a sport. I disagree, as the drunker you get while playing, the better you get, should sort of disqualify it.

Wags might not share this viewpoint. :wink:

Beer pong anybody?

Hmm, wonder if ping pong qualifies? It is table tennis.

So, IMO, racing, baseball, basketball, football, tennis, golf, boxing, wrestling, hockey, lacrosse, soccer, etc. are all sports. The t1b index page is a good example, except for the gambling part.

Darts, chess, ice skating, etc....not so much.

Slapping Goobs around...is that a sport?

Shlomart Ben Yisrael wrote:Slapping Goobs around...is that a sport?

nah, that's just a hobby.

For another perspective, here's an article from Simpleprop.com. This guy puts up some interesting points, a couple I disagree with, like golf.

http://www.simpleprop.com/wadE/sport.html

You don't want to be disturbed, yet on your flight to Colorado Springs you question the validity of some skiing/snowboarding as a sport to your seatmates?

I'd ask how stupid you are, but the evidence speaks for itself.

Diego in Seattle wrote:You don't want to be disturbed, yet on your flight to Colorado Springs you question the validity of some skiing/snowboarding as a sport to your seatmates?

I'd ask how stupid you are, but the evidence speaks for itself.

When somebody wants your opinion they'll slap the kiddy dick out of your mouth.

Diego in Seattle wrote:You don't want to be disturbed, yet on your flight to Colorado Springs you question the validity of some skiing/snowboarding as a sport to your seatmates?

I'd ask how stupid you are, but the evidence speaks for itself.

Typical, you didn't understand what you read. By that point the quiet flight was long forgotten. Further, unlike you I didn't assume since we were flying to COS they were skiers or riders. One was going to visit her son at the AF academy.

Go back to defending Boeing union workers, at least that is amusing. Or what mvscal said.

88 wrote:There are sports where the judges have very little judging to do, like the high jump. Either you got your ass over the bar at a particular height or your didn't. And then there are sports where the judges have a lot of judging to do, like whether you completed the triple-axle triple toe-loop combination properly or not. And then there are sports that fall in the middle, like hockey (did the player get fouled as he was taking your shot (judging), which either went in or did not (not so much judging)).

Even sports we consider to have little judging in them have judges. Take weightlifting, for example. Before a lift can be considered complete, a judge has to agree that the required criteria has been met. On the long jump, some judge watches the take off board to confirm whether there was a foul or not. There are judges who watch particular kicks and swimming strokes.

Personally, I like the sports that have few judges and are timed/measured in some objective way. Like downhill skiing, marathon running, speed skating, midget tossing, bull riding, NASCAR racing, luge, bobsledding, biathlon, etc.

I'm not big into artistic shit, unless there is a T&A show going on that is not creepy (14 year old little girls twisted up into pretzel shapes don't get me interested - now maybe if they made them all be 21 and older and put a stripper pole in the middle of the floor exercise area, I could tune in). So I cannot watch dude diving, synchro swimming, dude figure skating, most female gymnastics, all equestrian events except those that involve racing many horses at the same time, and all snowboard and ski events that involve flipping or jumping or whatever.

That being said, I do enjoy watching gymnastics performed by men, because it is way harder than anything I could ever do. The same thing for wrestling. Those guys would fucking kill me.

So, you can't watch 17 year old chicks prance around the floor, but you can watch dudes do it?

All righty then.

fag

Left Seater wrote:Go back to defending Boeing union workers,

Yeah, I'm sure you prefer workers like the ones in South Carolina.

Kicking people who whine about what is and isn't a sport in the fucking teeth....is that a sport?

Left Seater wrote:Or what mvscal said.

Another skirt for Nancy to hid behind.

Diego in Seattle wrote:

Left Seater wrote:Go back to defending Boeing union workers,

Yeah, I'm sure you prefer workers like the ones in South Carolina.

Same work gets done at a more competitive rate, what is wrong with that?

Left Seater wrote:

Diego in Seattle wrote:

Left Seater wrote:Go back to defending Boeing union workers,

Yeah, I'm sure you prefer workers like the ones in South Carolina.

Same work gets done at a more competitive rate, what is wrong with that?

Nothing, if it can be done correctly. Which they can't. Even after a few years & lots of help.

Diego in Seattle wrote:
Nothing, if it can be done correctly. Which they can't. Even after a few years & lots of help.

Says a bitter union apologist who saw the jobs go a non union state.

I heard the same thing said about cars and trucks a few years ago and that was crap as well.

Left Seater wrote:

Diego in Seattle wrote:
Nothing, if it can be done correctly. Which they can't. Even after a few years & lots of help.

Says a bitter union apologist who saw the jobs go a non union state.

I heard the same thing said about cars and trucks a few years ago and that was crap as well.

And so says the media - media from South Carolina at that.

Truth hurts, doesn't it?

Left Seater wrote:

Diego in Seattle wrote:
Nothing, if it can be done correctly. Which they can't. Even after a few years & lots of help.

Says a bitter union apologist who saw the jobs go a non union state.

I heard the same thing said about cars and trucks a few years ago and that was crap as well.

yeah, poor fukking honda can't give away all those non-union built accords.

Shlomart Ben Yisrael wrote:Slapping Goobs around...is that a sport?

It's a fantasy.

Curling makes perfect sense. It is what softball drunk dude does in places too cold for softball.

smackaholic wrote:Curling makes perfect sense. It is what softball drunk dude does in places too cold for softball.

I thought that was called ice fishing.

OMG... a 13 year old pic. Nice work.

And I hadn't even clicked on this thread until now. No sir, I avoid ice like 'holic avoids lawn care.

As for league bowling, try doing it 6 weeks after you've had a stroke, then tell me if it's a sport or not. I did and averaged 99 for the first 3 weeks. 4 months later I'm up to a 124. I've averaged around a 195 for the past 30 some years, with a 300 game (got the USBC ring to prove it) and a few 700 series thrown in. It's a challenge now that I relish, still throwing the same 16 lb Blue Hammer (indestructible urethane) that I have since 1993. I'm just a casual "beer league" once a week bowler but I hate to lose, at anything. I've had to totally relearn how to bowl. My body won't do what my mind tells it to do most of the time. It's a physical and mental game, make no mistake.

Chess is another game I love. I wager Goobs testicle wax I could beat most any slob here 4 out of 5 times.

War Wagon wrote:still throwing the same 16 lb Blue Hammer (indestructible urethane) that I have since 1993.

Nice, Hammers are $. I have a 16 lb Piranha I bought for $100 in 1996.

Screw_Michigan wrote:

War Wagon wrote:still throwing the same 16 lb Blue Hammer (indestructible urethane) that I have since 1993.

Nice, Hammers are $. I have a 16 lb Piranha I bought for $100 in 1996.

Looks like Sudafed.

I took the blue pill.