T1B

You have to pick 1 QB, 1 RB, 3 WRs and 1 TE, totaling a value of $20.

My team:

QB - Joe Montana $3
RB - Adrian Peterson $4
WR - Tim Brown $3
WR - Michael Irvin $3
WR - Marvin Harrison $3
TE - Shannon Sharpe $4

Who is Joe Montano?

The off-brand Joe Montana. That's why he's so cheap.

QB: Joe Montano ($3)
RB: Marshall Faulk ($4)
WR: Don Hutson, Jerry Rice, Michael Irvin ($2, $6, $3)
TE: Dave Casper ($2)



Hutson at 2 bills is the greatest bargain on the board.

Joe Montano ($3 mil)
Tony Dorsett ($1 mil)
Calvin Johnson ($6 mil)
Don Hutson ($2 mil)
Marvin Harrison ($6 mil)
Dave Casper ($2 mil)

*I'd take a flyer at $0.50 for Aaron Hernandez

Marvin Harrison is only $3.

You've still got three bucks left to spend, Felix.


Why not add Eli, Tiki, and Amani -- just for depth? :wink:

QB: Jim Kelly - 2
RB: Adrian Peterson - 4
WR1: Jerry Rice - 6
WR2: Michael Irvin - 3
WR3: Marvin Harrison - 3
TE: John Mackey - 2

QB; Steve Young $3
RB : Marshal Faulk $4
WR: Randy Moss $5
WR: Tim Brown $3
WR: Michael Irvin $3
TE: Dave Casper $2

Jsc810 wrote:But as is, I have the second best QB in history (4 SB wins),

Bradshaw isn't even in the top ten, idiot.

Jsc, Jimmy Graham has only played four seasons.
He's got a LONG way to go to match up to other names on that list.

You've taken QB (the most important position on the field) and made it weak by taking Bradshaw -- when you consider how he stacks up against others there.

Toomer doesn't even belong on a board like this, nor does Tiki Barber.
Some NY hack (who doesn't even know Joe Montana's name) obviously drew it up.

Yea, every $1 player listed is a Giant. That could be a NY homer OR hater.

I suspect Tardshaw had some good leadership ability, and there's something to be said for that.

However, you've heard of the Steel Curtain, haven't you?

In Tardshaw's 4 Super Bowl winning seasons, the defense backing him up was ranked 5th, 1st, 2nd, and 2nd.


For his career, he was a 52% passer with as many INTs as TDs.


If you want to pinpoint who won the championships, it was the defense.

Jsc810 wrote:That is what counts, winning championships. Not yards thrown, number of TDs, QB rating, or whatever else.

So Trent Dilfer is a better QB than Dan Marino? Well thought out take there.

Charles Haley was the bestest player ever (5 SB wins as a player).

Bart Starr won 5 NFL championships, and had a playoff record of 9-1.

Goober McTuber wrote:Bart Starr won 5 NFL championships, and had a playoff record of 9-1.

Nobody cares. Who are you, Wolftard?

Screw_Michigan wrote:

Goober McTuber wrote:Bart Starr won 5 NFL championships, and had a playoff record of 9-1.

Nobody cares. Who are you, Wolftard?

Right. Because anything that happened before you were born is of no consequence. Go fuck yourself, Sonny.

And stay the fuck the fuck out of my yard.

Jsc810 wrote:Nobody in the history of the sport has won more Super Bowls than Terry Bradshaw.

Call me The Big Nobody then.

Sin,
Charles Haley

And Bradshaw had 21 teammates that also collected 4.

Dinsdale wrote:

Jsc810 wrote:Nobody in the history of the sport has won more Super Bowls than Terry Bradshaw.

Call me The Big Nobody then.

Sin,
Charles Haley

You really need to scroll up. We already established that Haley was the best player ever.

Warner - $3
Faulk - $4
Megatron - $6
Harrison- $3
Bruce - $3
Shockey - $1

KC Scott wrote:Elway

Yeah, but which HOF receiver is he going to point the finger at after he chokes the game away?

Most. Overrated. Player. EVER. (Although Reggie White gives him a run in that department.)

Dinsdale wrote:Yeah, but which HOF receiver is he going to point the finger at after he chokes the game away?

Most. Overrated. Player. EVER. (Although Reggie White gives him a run in that department.)

A bit of a reach there Dins. You might not have liked him, but MOST overrated? Hardly.

While he was not a Joe Montana, who has better stats based on longevity, there is no other QB who has started 5 Super Bowls. Sure, he only won two, but those two were blowouts.

There are some critics who say he is the most overrated QB ever, and an argument can be made there, but others say he was the best. I don't agree, but to say he is the most overrated player...no.

Try again.

Jay in Phoenix wrote: Sure, he only won two, but those two were blowouts.

:?

Is Elway overrated?

Well, we need to start by asking, "How do people tend to rate him?"

Shortly after he retired, I think a general consensus was that he was a top 5 all time QB -- and some people had him right up at the top.
But since then, others have come along (Brady, Manning, Favre...) and knocked him down some.

I think most people currently view Elway as being a top 10 all timer, but probably not in the top 5.

He was a winner and he was durable.
14-7 in the playoffs.
148-82 as a regular season starter.
Five AFC titles.
Two Super Bowl wins.

Impressive.

In a 16 year career, the defenses backing him up were ranked (pts allowed) in the top 10 nine times.
So he had decent support there, overall.

For a lot of his career (until T. Davis) his running backs were not much to write home about.
And what about his receivers?
Vance Johnson, Mark Jackson, etc.
Not that much, really.
Shannon Sharpe came a long and was very nice at TE.


Personally, I would probably rank him somewhere between 10-15 all-time.

Again, he was durable, he won a lot of games, he won a lot of playoff games, he won a handful of AFC titles, and he went all the way twice.

Outstanding career.

I need to know where people are rating Elway to say if he's overrated or not.

Second best of all-time? Nah.
Top five? A case could be made, but probably not.
Top ten? Fair.

Reggie White definitely was not overrated. He was a freak athlete for a man his size, and if you listen to former players talk about him, it's clear he was highly respected amongst his peers. Sorry Dins, but I'm inclined to side with the opinions of those who played on Sundays over yours.

MgoBlue-LightSpecial wrote:Reggie White definitely was not overrated. He was a freak athlete for a man his size, and if you listen to former players talk about him, it's clear he was highly respected amongst his peers. Sorry Dins, but I'm inclined to side with the opinions of those who played on Sundays over yours.

Yea, but Jerome Brown playing OLB in Tecmo was a wrecking ball. Too bad he couldn't control that ride of his at high speeds.

As for Reggie, he was to DE in the 4-3 what LT was to OLB in a 3-4. Too bad he had a maniac as an HC. They might have won a few titles in Philly in the early 90s.

A number of good points, Scott.

On the downside for Elway, he did throw quite a few picks -- and especially early in his career.
And his overall QB rating of 79.9 isn't real great.

I would place the following six QBs above Elway for sure.

Otto Graham
Joe Montana
Bart Starr
Johnny Unitas
Peyton Manning
Tom Brady


The next three... maybe.

Brett Favre - maybe
Fran Tarkenton - maybe
Dan Marino - maybe


As Mgo said, placing Elway in the top 10 isn't overrating him, imo.
You can make a valid care for him there.
And I think a case can be made that he's top 5, but I wouldn't really buy it.

Just to be safe, I said between 10-15, but that might be slighting him somewhat, because I do think he had an outstanding career.

Maybe Dins will come back in and explain his reasoning.

Sammy Winder - RB
Gerald Willhite - RB
Bobby Humphrey - RB
Steve Watson - WR
Mark Jackson - WR
Vance Johnson - WR
Clarence Kay - TE
Orson Mobley - TE


That's what Denver had at skill positions in the first three SBs Elway lost.


Defensively, they weren't shabby, though.
In '89 they were 1st in the league in pts allowed and 3rd in yds allowed.
In '87 they were 7th and 9th.
In '86 they were 15th and 9th.

BSmack wrote:
Yea, but Jerome Brown playing OLB in Tecmo was a wrecking ball. Too bad he couldn't control that ride of his at high speeds.

Played heads up against Brown in high school, not fun. Was a freak athlete at every sport he played.

Reggie White was awesome -- when he lined up next to HoFers who were getting double-teamed. Look at the guys around him both in Philly and GB -- they were rife with beasts.

Yeah, I'm sure it was all those other guys that made him look good and not the other way around.

Here's a fun fact for you. Philly DE Clyde Simmons averaged 11.3 sacks and 103.2 tackles per year playing opposite White. In the six seasons without White, Simmons averaged 7.1 sacks and 59.7 tackles.

Simmons was good, but not nearly as good after White left. Don't understand what is to be debated about that, and Mgo even brought numbers.

Dinsdale wrote:Reggie White was awesome -- when he lined up next to HoFers who were getting double-teamed. Look at the guys around him both in Philly and GB -- they were rife with beasts.

Gilbert Brown, Santana Dotson, Sean Jones, Gabe Wilkins. Hall of Famers, for sure.

Goober McTuber wrote:

Dinsdale wrote:Reggie White was awesome -- when he lined up next to HoFers who were getting double-teamed. Look at the guys around him both in Philly and GB -- they were rife with beasts.

Gilbert Brown, Santana Dotson, Sean Jones, Gabe Wilkins. Hall of Famers, for sure.

So, to counter, you list multiple guys who often drew extra attention.

If you were trying to make my point for me, you should have included Seth Joyner on that list (since Simmons has been mentioned).

Dinsdale wrote:

Goober McTuber wrote:

Dinsdale wrote:Reggie White was awesome -- when he lined up next to HoFers who were getting double-teamed. Look at the guys around him both in Philly and GB -- they were rife with beasts.

Gilbert Brown, Santana Dotson, Sean Jones, Gabe Wilkins. Hall of Famers, for sure.

So, to counter, you list multiple guys who often drew extra attention.

If you were trying to make my point for me, you should have included Seth Joyner on that list (since Simmons has been mentioned).

I only addressed the Packer Hall of Famers. If you are trying to argue that any of those four Packers were drawing double-teams while leaving Reggie single-teamed...don't be that guy.

R-Jack wrote:

Jay in Phoenix wrote: Sure, he only won two, but those two were blowouts.

:?

What's to be confused by R-Jack? His two Super Bowl wins were knockout punches.

Care to elaborate?

KC Scott, by the way, gets where I'm coming from.

He is one of the three best running QB's to ever carry the ball. He was as clutch as it gets...remember the Drive?

My opinion, in contrast to Dinsdale's confusing one, is Elway is easily one of the top 10 QB's to ever play the game. You could absolutely argue for top 5.

He was a much hated player outside of Denver, but the guy was one of the best ever. Period.

Jay wrote:He is one of the three best running QB's to ever carry the ball.

I'm not sure about that.
Who are your top three?

poptart wrote:

Jay wrote:He is one of the three best running QB's to ever carry the ball.

I'm not sure about that.
Who are your top three?

Okay poptart, there is room for discussion and opinion here. It depends upon your qualifiers I suppose.

Steve Young and Fran Tarkenton were known as scramblers, and have more rushing yards than Elway.

Michael Vick is a cheetah and Randall Cunningham, one of the most explosive backs, have huge stats as running QB's, when it comes to raw yards, and also have more than Elway.

So if you want to go by pure rushing yards and percentages, you're right.

I'm factoring in every aspect of his entire répertoire, and he remains, in my opinion, a top three QB, with rushing being one of his strongest skills.

I'm still waiting for Dinsdale to pipe in with a defense of his statement.

Half the QBs in the league today are better ball carriers than Elway was. That's not a knock on Elway, it's just that the position has evolved since his time and you see more dual-threats under center today (aka black guys). Elway was still a much better quarterback than any of them.

Dinsdale wrote:

Goober McTuber wrote:

Dinsdale wrote:Reggie White was awesome -- when he lined up next to HoFers who were getting double-teamed. Look at the guys around him both in Philly and GB -- they were rife with beasts.

Gilbert Brown, Santana Dotson, Sean Jones, Gabe Wilkins. Hall of Famers, for sure.

So, to counter, you list multiple guys who often drew extra attention.

If you were trying to make my point for me, you should have included Seth Joyner on that list (since Simmons has been mentioned).

You're missing the best player not named Reggie White on that Defensive Line who made Reggie and Clyde even better players. Hint: He was a Hurricane.