T1B

The electric car if driven exactly the correct amount of miles is only barely better for the planet than comparable fossil fuel powered cars. But since many electric cars are second or third cars in a household due to their short range they end up being worse.

So drive less than the target mileage and they are worse for the planet. Drive more than the target and have to replace the batteries, far far worse for the planet. Drive only in the roughly 10,000 mile target range before scrapping, they are fractionally better.

The top-line electric Tesla car, emits about 44 tons of CO2 from production thru scrapping, about 5 tons less than a similar Audi A7 Quattro. Avoiding 5 tons of CO2 would cost less than $45 on Europe's emissions trading market. The annual benefit is about the cost of a cup of coffee. Yet U.S. taxpayers spend up to $7,500 in tax breaks for less than $45 of climate benefits.

Researchers estimate that if the U.S. has 10% more gasoline cars in 2020, 870 more people will die each year in the U.S. from air pollution. Hybrids, because they are cleaner, will kill just 610 people. But 10% more electric vehicles powered on the average U.S. electricity mix will kill 1,617 more people every year, mostly from coal pollution. The electric car kills almost three times as many as a hybrid.

In the public conversation, electric cars are seen as the new uber-green. But they're nothing of the sort. If we had 25 million extra electric cars rather than gasoline cars on the road in 2020, they would over their lifetime avoid 75 million tons of CO2 at a market value of more than half a billion dollars. However, at present-day subsidies, they would cost a phenomenal $188 billion while creating more pollution than gasoline cars, costing about $35 billion in lives cut short by poor air quality. For every dollar of cost, the electric car does less than half a cent of good.

Electric car myths

Y'all by way of Federal Government programs have installed 875 electric vehicle charging stations in and around San Antonio. In the 5 years since the first of these charging stations were installed, the average use rate of each station is 3%. Over half of the stations have gone an entire year with zero use. 89 of the stations have never been used a single time.

Awesome use of your tax dollars.

I remember when a guy showed up in my old home town (Cortland NY) and sold folks stock in an electric car company called Solargen. He claimed he had found a way to build a new battery that would revolutionize the world. He installed some regular large lead/sulfuric acid batteries in a couple cars as a preview. Right. The only thing new was he was ahead of his time scamming some local folks out of their hard earned money. Luckily he did not have friends in the White house or he could have stolen more.
One last time. How is(was) oil formed? If it is abiotic in origin there is a LOT of it.

My wife and I were just in San Antonio and had noticed a huge amount of those electric chargers. I made the comment that if you got an electric car you'd be golden because they were never in use and the placement was often better than the cripple/handicap spots that are so conveniently close to the front door of whatever establishment you wanted to go to.

Rooster wrote:My wife and I were just in San Antonio and had noticed a huge amount of those electric chargers. I made the comment that if you got an electric car you'd be golden because they were never in use and the placement was often better than the cripple/handicap spots that are so conveniently close to the front door of whatever establishment you wanted to go to.

There may have been assumptions by the store management that tards in need of the chargers are severely handicapped and need better parking than the average cripple.

I have noticed recently lots of signs around the country with "reserved" parking for "fuel efficient vehicles." Here in SA I often park my large SUV in them as does everyone else. Once some yag in a two seater Lexus convertible opened his mouth and complained. I quickly asked him how many mpg he got in his car. He responded with 40. I countered with mine gets 22 mpg but has seats for 7 so my vehicle is far better for the environment on a gallon per seat mile basis and walked off.

While not perfected, the continued efforts in advancement of alternative fuel vehicles is a good thing. That you would applaud our failures in this endeavor is so very Texan of you.

First, can you please provide the data used to prove this green debacle.
Second, do you park in handicapped zone because you need them more than a person with a placard? How about loading zones when you need them?
Third, if you get towed under California Vehicle Code section 22511 for doing that here, I'll take your case pro bono.

Ironic business name...

MgoBlue-LightSpecial wrote:While not perfected, the continued efforts in advancement of alternative fuel vehicles is a good thing. That you would applaud our failures in this endeavor is so very Texan of you.

You are going to have to be more specific. Were you referring to the electric car "fueling" stations you paid for, the electric car myth, or the reserved spot for a fuel efficient vehicle?

Moving Sale wrote:First, can you please provide the data used to prove this green debacle.
Second, do you park in handicapped zone because you need them more than a person with a placard? How about loading zones when you need them?
Third, if you get towed under California Vehicle Code section 22511 for doing that here, I'll take your case pro bono.

I linked the story from the USAyesterday. Ask the author for his data.

I do not park in handicapped or loading zones. I no longer park in the spots label "parents with children" though those remain a joke to me. As for the reserved spots for fuel efficient vehicles, show me the accepted definition of fuel efficient. There isn't a city, county or state definition that I am aware of and as I pointed out to the yag in the Lexus, my vehicle is far more efficient on a gallon per seat mile basis. You and every other attorney would have my car quickly returned to me at the business owner's expense if they were to tow it from such a "reserved" spot.

Thanks for the representation offer if I am ticketed in CA.

Papa Willie wrote:
Hydrogen is flammable.

/s/

Fixed that for you.

Left Seater wrote: Fixed that for you.

What the fuck is your malfunction, fatty?

Dealing with Canadians.

Wolfman wrote:How is(was) oil formed? If it is abiotic in origin there is a LOT of it.

And if little fairies stuck rockets up your ass you'd be able to fly.

MgoBlue-LightSpecial wrote:While not perfected, the continued efforts in advancement of alternative fuel vehicles is a good thing. That you would applaud our failures in this endeavor is so very Texan of you.

I know. It's like he almost endorses the US being dependent on Middle Eastern oligarchs who hate us...for our freedoms.

Screw_Michigan wrote:

MgoBlue-LightSpecial wrote:While not perfected, the continued efforts in advancement of alternative fuel vehicles is a good thing. That you would applaud our failures in this endeavor is so very Texan of you.

I know. It's like he almost endorses the US being dependent on Middle Eastern oligarchs who hate us...for our freedoms.

Wow, how are you still holding down your job when you have zero grasp of what is happening in the world.


US only imports 35% of its consumption.


This despite the idiot in the White House and his policies that want to prevent even more domestic production. Production on Federal owned or controlled property has fallen.


It is a good thing your profession has zero standards. :doh:

Does little Mikey still think oil was made from dead dinosaurs or some such thing? Sure must have been a lot of them under Saudi Arabia.

Left Seater wrote: It is a good thing your profession has zero standards. :doh:

Withheld any candy from negro children lately? You are one fat, miserable, fuck.

Screw_Michigan wrote:

Left Seater wrote: It is a good thing your profession has zero standards. :doh:

Withheld any candy from negro children lately? You are one fat, miserable, fuck.

Why so angry? The one who would appear miserable would be you. Always angry when you post, must suck to go thru life angry at the world.

Have a nice day and a great weekend.

That was beyond white flag.

That was throwing in a white towel.

Off-Street Parking: Electric Vehicles

22511. (a)A local authority, by ordinance or resolution, and a person in lawful possession of an offstreet parking facility may designate stalls or spaces in an offstreet parking facility owned or operated by that local authority or person for the exclusive purpose of charging and parking a vehicle that is connected for electric charging purposes.
(b) If posted in accordance with subdivision (d) or (e), the owner or person in lawful possession of a privately owned or operated offstreet parking facility, after notifying the police or sheriff's department, may cause the removal of a vehicle from a stall or space designated pursuant to subdivision (a) in the facility to the nearest public garage if the vehicle is not connected for electric charging purposes.

Wolfman wrote:Does little Mikey still think oil was made from dead dinosaurs or some such thing? Sure must have been a lot of them under Saudi Arabia.

Well, I still think it's quaint to believe that fossil fuels are buried combustible geologic deposits of organic materials, formed from decayed plants and animals that have been converted to crude oil, coal, natural gas, or heavy oils by exposure to heat and pressure in the earth's crust over hundreds of millions of years.

But I realize that the currently accepted theory (or "fact" as you would probably call it) is that God and g0D just checks in every couple of months and replenishes those underground reservoirs from below when he sees them running short.

No reason to believe in "science" these days, since all "scientists" have been proved to be frauds.

Moving Sale wrote:Off-Street Parking: Electric Vehicles

22511. (a)A local authority, by ordinance or resolution, and a person in lawful possession of an offstreet parking facility may designate stalls or spaces in an offstreet parking facility owned or operated by that local authority or person for the exclusive purpose of charging and parking a vehicle that is connected for electric charging purposes.
(b) If posted in accordance with subdivision (d) or (e), the owner or person in lawful possession of a privately owned or operated offstreet parking facility, after notifying the police or sheriff's department, may cause the removal of a vehicle from a stall or space designated pursuant to subdivision (a) in the facility to the nearest public garage if the vehicle is not connected for electric charging purposes.

That's all well and good. But how is it relevant? I never said I parked in an electric charging spot. I said I parked in a "fuel efficient vehicle" spot.

Left Seater wrote:I have noticed recently lots of signs around the country with "reserved" parking for "fuel efficient vehicles." Here in SA I often park my large SUV in them as does everyone else.

My bad. All the ones I have seen have the charger so that's what I thought you were referring to. Maybe the law in those states have a sticker you need to have?

That's the whole point. There isn't any set requirement for these spots, at least in two of the states that have them. I have asked here in SA and there is no statute or designation that anyone can point to. So I define it how I see fit, on a seat mile per gallon basis.

Which leads us back to your stats. My understanding of those stats is they assume that the electricity is coming from coal plants. That means that if you pulled that shit on me you would not only be being an asshole you would also be factually wrong.

A huge portion of our total generating plants are coal powered. I think they make up like 45% of the production total.

I know that when CA gets in a big bind and needs additional power, we fire up the old coal plants here and sell y'all the additional power at an obscene rate to cover the fines for running said plant.


But all that said, what is the definition of a fuel efficient vehicle?

In 2013 total usage in CA was about 8% from coal and 44% from natural gas.

http://energyalmanac.ca.gov/electricity ... power.html

Virtually 100% of the coal power is imported (0.5% of in-state generation is from coal).

Normally the "marginal" generation capacity in CA is very highly efficient natural gas combined cycle peaker plants, with over 60% electrical efficiency. So, if you charge your car during the day you may be increasing the peak load on the system, but you're likely using the most efficient generation. Night time charging is pretty much using base load capacity but it's a somewhat lower efficiency mix than the marginal capacity.

Let's say 30 years from now, everybody has a magic shade tree like mikey. What happens when the sun don't shine for awhile?

Are the evil power companies expected to just sit there waiting to fire shit back up? Seems like this will create a bit of an economic problem for them. All that equipment along with people to run it needs to be paid for. Currently, "green energy" receives massive gubmint subsidies as it isn't anywhere close to being financially feasible on its own, but at some point we will be in a position where it will have to be the reverse.

Call it energy insurance.

If you want that grid to power things when you need it, you'll have to pay it to sit around when it isn't being used. The alternative would be to have huge battery banks and that sounds like a really "green" idea, doesn't it. And that would only work in places like where mikey lives. Fukkers like Bsuck, 88 or me will never be able to stockpile enough electrons, especially this time of year.

Wait, I know...... lets just borrow/print it!!!!! Problem solved!

LS,
Yea but my ride is powered by my solar panels. What's ITS carbon footprint overs its lifetime?

Holic,
Hawaii is rapidly getting to that point. A hotbed of solar if you will. Some of the ideas floated is doing what a friend of mine in mendo does which is pump water to an uphill pond with his extra daytime power and turn on his hydro plant at night to collect it. You lose energy in the process (to heat and whatnot) but it gets him off grid. Another idea is the same concept only with huge weights. You can sit on your hands and bitch about the oil company's not getting their balls scratched or you can get in the game. Your choice.

Depends, but it isn't nearly as green as one usually thinks it is.


http://spectrum.ieee.org/green-tech/sol ... -you-think

So in other words you have no idea and yet you are still a dick to people wanting to park their car in a spot you have NO business parking in.

And as I have mentioned, this makes you a hypocrite if you do care about GW data being "altered" because you are straight up inventing data in this case.

Moving Sale wrote:LS,
Yea but my ride is powered by my solar panels. What's ITS carbon footprint overs its lifetime?

yeah, but what about the rest of the electric car owners? Gonna have to have a pretty substantial PV array to top off a tesla.

Moving Sale wrote: Holic,
Hawaii is rapidly getting to that point. A hotbed of solar if you will. Some of the ideas floated is doing what a friend of mine in mendo does which is pump water to an uphill pond with his extra daytime power and turn on his hydro plant at night to collect it. You lose energy in the process (to heat and whatnot) but it gets him off grid. Another idea is the same concept only with huge weights. You can sit on your hands and bitch about the oil company's not getting their balls scratched or you can get in the game. Your choice.

Hawaii is unique among states.

Further south than the rest with virtually no heating/cooling needs. The only other place where it might be practical is coastal so cal which has modest heating/cooling needs. Anywhere else you need pretty ginormous amounts of juice/oil to keep from sweating/freezing to death a good bit of the year.

As for gravity storage, it is the best way to store electrons on a large scale. Not so much on a small scale. And no matter how much you store, the large HVAC requirements of most areas will exceed that storage.

Why are you so obsessed with my body? It's creepy.

I produce about 60 kWh /day which will get you about 180 miles in a Tesla. Any other questions you stupid fucking Neanderthal?

Moving Sale wrote:So in other words you have no idea and yet you are still a dick to people wanting to park their car in a spot you have NO business parking in.

Wrong. Show me a statute or definition that is accepted in those states and I will counter it with my definition until someone passes a law or ordinance.

I am far more efficient on a seat mile per gallon basis than that two seater.



Further I have invented no data here. I have only pointed out that electric cars are not the green savior that many make them out to be. As I linked to before some offer up less of a carbon footprint that gas powered vehicles. Some don't.

Well did you have 7 people in your "I have a small dick" SUV?
And again, if you don't know if someone's car is more efficient than your's is why are you such a dick about Fuel Efficient parking spaces?

Moving Sale wrote:Well did you have 7 people in your "I have a small dick" SUV?
And again, if you don't know if someone's car is more efficient than your's is why are you such a dick about Fuel Efficient parking spaces?

I don't always have a full car, but then neither does anyone.


You can't see the forest for the trees. The point is we have no idea whose vehicle is the most Fuel Efficient when the parameters haven't been set.

Does the Camry or Hybrid Tahoe get to use the spot? What about a Prius vs a Volt?

Most of those signs are related to the LEED certification which does have a list of cars that qualify. Sure it's a long list but it is a list. In addition the owners of the land can tell people where to park all they want here in 'Merica. Again, why are you so pissed off about this issue when you don't even know what's fuel efficient and what's not.

Yesterday I parked right next to the "green" parking spots which are right next to the elevator at Logan. Sitting smack in the middle of the green area was a Suburban with a parking ticket under the wiper and "asshole" finger written into the grime on the rear window. The signs specify that this is "hybrid" parking. The ironic thing is, there is a chance this thing is hybrid as GM did fool around with "hybrids" in their trucks/cars a few years back. These hybrids basically just had an alternator on steroids and a heavy duty battery. I think it would be funny as hell if this is one and dude just took off the gay "hybrid" ornamentation they usually plaster on the outside and he shows up in court to ask why the fukk hybrids get preference in a public parking area. A few spots over was a V-6 hybrid accord. Wanna bet the "footprint" of that thing is twice my 4 cylinder Sonata's?

If they really did give a fukk about resource conservation, they would have set aside parking for the dude driving a 93 civic. This fukking dude is actually conserving resources. But, the beautiful people don't give a fukk about that dude. They don't roll in 20 year old rust buckets. They care about the environment and prove it with their tax subsidized Teslas.