T1B

So I picked up a couple of bottles of this wine:

http://www.chamberswines.com/wine.php?wineid=TNT350_12

Note that in the description it says:

"Instead of using cork, Scaia is bottled with a glass VinoLok cork. It is simple to remove and actually stores the wine better than a traditional cork, but looks nicer than a screwcap."

So yes, I peel off the wine bottle's capsule and I see one of these:

http://vinolok.cz/why-vinolok

Anyone not named Dinsdale ever seen one? It seems pretty slick.

I've never seen one, either.

Looks cool in theory.

But being involved with the business side of wine, it actually sounds dumb as fuck.

It obviously doesn't go through the corker on a standard bottling line -- must have to do it by hand? Much harder to keep air out of the bottle before the cork goes in.

Cork is actually an issue these days. Takes forever to grow cork properly (comes from oak trees), and demand exceeded supply over the years, and now, there's some really low quality shit out there, and anything decent is ridiculously priced.

Screw caps are the trend, since they're reliable. But there's a catch -- costs a whole buncha dough to retool a line to run screw caps.

They make some really cool plastic ones, too. But again, it doesn't go through a corker.

So, most stick with either synthetic or recycled (recycled cork isn't a great solution, since it's a bit more prone to seepage).

But just about anything sounds better than glass, from a packaging standpoint, although the aesthetics seem n9ce.

Dinsdale wrote:Cork is actually an issue these days. Takes forever to grow cork properly (comes from oak trees), and demand exceeded supply over the years, and now, there's some really low quality shit out there, and anything decent is ridiculously priced.

Perhaps the cork would work better if it were soaked. It works for these cork soakers.

Dinsdale wrote:I've never seen one, either.

Looks cool in theory.

But being involved with the business side of wine, it actually sounds dumb as fuck.

It obviously doesn't go through the corker on a standard bottling line -- must have to do it by hand? Much harder to keep air out of the bottle before the cork goes in.

I don't know. They've been doing this for 10 years with a number of different wineries. Here's some technical info:

http://vinolok.cz/technical

They say it can be implemented with a conventional bottling line. Click on the picture for a youtube video. Also includes a few independent studies.

A good blog post on the subject of screw caps vs. corks, with some side-by-side comparison.

Also some good discussion in the comments, especially synthetic vs. natural corks. The synthetic cork does not make as tight a seal as natural cork. They didn't discuss glass, though I would think it would have the same problem as the synthetic cork.

Synthetic corks make a good example... several wineries moved their entire production to synthetics, only to find out that they don't provide as good a seal at natural cork (let alone screwcap) and the wines were oxidizing within a couple of years. There's one trend I'm happy we didn't jump on!

http://tablascreek.typepad.com/tablas/2 ... screw.html

Goober McTuber wrote: They say it can be implemented with a conventional bottling line. Click on the picture for a youtube video.

I'm sure it can be put on most lines -- but that's a long way from a standard corker. From what I can see, first -- if they don't have the line speed cranked way down for the purpose of the demonstration, and the corker is the slow spot, then that's kind of a joke. About 3 seconds per bottle, which is less than 2 cases a minute... makes for long days off bottling. Next, it appears that loading their corker makes for a full-time job for an employee -- creating an even greater expense than just buying the corker and what I presume are expensive corks. A standard corker has a hopper which you can dump corks in by the hundreds/thousands and forget about it for a while.

Mikey -- just one man's opinion, but I find the synthetics tend to fit the neck tighter and on a more consistant basis than real corks (at least lower-cost ones). And they're less prone to contamination (can always disinfect them before hand if one was paranoid). In today's cork world, the real corks have a high (can't give you an exact number) failure rate, bringing up the question of "what's it worth?" A leaker doesn't always just ruin that particular bottle, it can stain other labels, and get the funk growing.

My understanding, which admittedly is not from experience, is that the synthetics fit tighter when first inserted but do not expand as the natural corks do, creating a tighter fit when racked properly.

Dinsdale or Goober, did you see the episode of Shark Tank where they had a guy on was marketing an air bladder for re-sealing wine bottles. It's supposed to prevent oxidization for three days after opening, and it supposedly didn't affect the taste of the wine. It looked like this:




Pretty much a fruit shaped air bladder. The guy got rejected even after he had been offered $400,000 for the product. The sharks seemed to like it, but the guy balked at the offer.

Thoughts?

Mikey wrote:My understanding, which admittedly is not from experience, is that the synthetics fit tighter when first inserted but do not expand as the natural corks do, creating a tighter fit when racked properly.

You mean "stored properly." "Racking" is something different, and it's part of production. Sticking a bottle in a rack (proper thing to do, keeping the cork wet... but you knew that) doesn't constitute "racking" (not in my world, anyway). Racking (besides what you guys do to my posts) is siphoning/pumping wine from one container (tank or barrel) to another to remove sediment during aging/fermenting (before final filtration, which is done prior to and as a part of bottling).

These days, the composites seem like the reasonable solution -- they stay tight, look and feel much like a real cork, rarely fail, are pretty cheap (spending too much on cork and glass is fine, if you're getting $75 a pop -- mid range to lower stuff, not so much... it is a business, you know), and work in a standard corker.

Jay, I don't do reality TV (unless someone is catching fish). Doesn't seem like it would be any advantage over the stupid vacuum capper thingies. My personal solution is to just finish the fucking bottle -- sure-fire way to prevent oxidization.

88 wrote:I think part of the enjoyment of a good bottle of wine, is pulling the cork from the bottle.

And the displeasure of a batch of bad/unsold/too old wine is pulling thousands of corks from the bottles. Years ago, a place had some really old, unsold (forgotten? Management wasn't too good when my friend took the old place over) chard or some shit. At a small outfit, it made sense to save the glass (I seem to remember it wasn't labeled yet) and ship the wine off to a local distiller (ethanol is ethanol) for a few buck. Talk about some tedious shit. Better pack multiple lunches. And bring beer (as the saying goes, "it takes a lot of cheap beer to make fine wine."). Weed helps, too.

Jay in Phoenix wrote:Dinsdale or Goober, did you see the episode of Shark Tank where they had a guy on was marketing an air bladder for re-sealing wine bottles. It's supposed to prevent oxidization for three days after opening, and it supposedly didn't affect the taste of the wine. It looked like this:


Pretty much a fruit shaped air bladder. The guy got rejected even after he had been offered $400,000 for the product. The sharks seemed to like it, but the guy balked at the offer.

Thoughts?

Funny, with wine, oxidation is a two edged sword.

The whole reason for opening a fine red (especially younger ones) for 30 minutes or an hour, decanting, pouring it into a wide glass and then swirling it around like a pretentious wine snob is to expose it to air, allowing it to "open up, develop, and come to life" before quaffage.

So then, after the first sip, I guess the main goal is to keep oxygen away from it?

I've found that a good bottle of wine, especially a younger fuller bodied red like cab, will taste just as good the next day if re-corked and possibly stuck in the fridge. I've read some reviews of expensive wines where the reviewer didn't finish the bottle the first night but it tasted better the next day.

Three days? Cork it, stand it up in the fridge. If it's bad in three days it was probably bad the first day.

PS, I rarely let a bottle go unfinished.

Dinsdale wrote:
You mean "stored properly." "Racking" is something different, and it's part of production. Sticking a bottle in a rack (proper thing to do, keeping the cork wet... but you knew that) doesn't constitute "racking" (not in my world, anyway). Racking (besides what you guys do to my posts) is siphoning/pumping wine from one container (tank or barrel) to another to remove sediment during aging/fermenting (before final filtration, which is done prior to and as a part of bottling).

Well - you got me there. Need to go back, re-read my wine book and make some vocabulary flash cards.

It's a glass stopper not a cork. A cork is made out of cork.

Mikey wrote:The whole reason for opening a fine red (especially younger ones) for 30 minutes or an hour, decanting, pouring it into a wide glass and then swirling it around like a pretentious wine snob is to expose it to air, allowing it to "open up, develop, and come to life" before quaffage.

So then, after the first sip, I guess the main goal is to keep oxygen away from it?

The opening-up process isn't about mixing in oxygen, it's about releasing certain compounds (most of which are sulfur-based), most of which will gas off pretty readily.

And yeah, a good red with the proper amount of sulphites should be fine for a couple of days in the fridge. If it's some gay-assed bottle that reads "no added sulphites"*, go ahead and toss it if you don't finish it (and you shouldn't have bought it anyway).


* - The powers-that-be made them stop making the false "sulphite-free" claim, since grapes naturally have sulphites. Then again, sodapop has more sulphites than wine.

Dinsdale wrote:My personal solution is to just finish the fucking bottle -- sure-fire way to prevent oxidization.

That has always been my philosophy. If aren't going to finish it, don't open it.

Dinsdale wrote:

Mikey wrote:The whole reason for opening a fine red (especially younger ones) for 30 minutes or an hour, decanting, pouring it into a wide glass and then swirling it around like a pretentious wine snob is to expose it to air, allowing it to "open up, develop, and come to life" before quaffage.

So then, after the first sip, I guess the main goal is to keep oxygen away from it?

The opening-up process isn't about mixing in oxygen, it's about releasing certain compounds (most of which are sulfur-based), most of which will gas off pretty readily.

I'll go ahead and take your word for it, seeing as how you know more about it than the so-called "experts" who make a living writing about this stuff.

Mikey wrote:
I'll go ahead and take your word for it, seeing as how you know more about it than the so-called "experts" who make a living writing about this stuff.

Grab some pine, Meat.

The dissolved oxygen is bound by the sulphites (Wine Fucking 101). Overwhelming it with oxygen is releasing many of the other compounds that are also bound by the sulphites. You're trying to release everything, not oxidize it.

Dinsdale wrote:

Mikey wrote:
I'll go ahead and take your word for it, seeing as how you know more about it than the so-called "experts" who make a living writing about this stuff.

Grab some pine, Meat.

The dissolved oxygen is bound by the sulphites (Wine Fucking 101). Overwhelming it with oxygen is releasing many of the other compounds that are also bound by the sulphites. You're trying to release everything, not oxidize it.

You're right - partly.

But, as usualm, you think you know a lot more than you really do.

If you need a "cork" for your "bottle" of wine.


You're simply a "pussy".


I've never met a "man" that has opened a bottle of wine... and didn't down the whole bottle.


Of course, I live in wine country... and we simply don't associate with losers like that.




the truth

Moving Sale wrote:It's a glass stopper not a cork. A cork is made out of cork.

Could you possibly any more tedious?

mvscal wrote:

Dinsdale wrote:My personal solution is to just finish the fucking bottle -- sure-fire way to prevent oxidization.

That has always been my philosophy. If aren't going to finish it, don't open it.

My wife doesn't like reds. And I don't care to drink an entire bottle of wine on a weeknight, especially since I may or may not have stopped for a couple of pints on the way home ('sup Teetotaler in Phoenix).

Goober McTuber wrote:

mvscal wrote:

Dinsdale wrote:My personal solution is to just finish the fucking bottle -- sure-fire way to prevent oxidization.

That has always been my philosophy. If aren't going to finish it, don't open it.

My wife doesn't like reds. And I don't care to drink an entire bottle of wine on a weeknight, especially since I may or may not have stopped for a couple of pints on the way home ('sup Teetotaler in Phoenix).

Once again, missing the point of a previous discussion, but that's to be expected.

Bottoms up Waxy. Cheers.

Mikey wrote:. . . synthetics fit tighter when first inserted but do not expand as the natural corks do, creating a tighter fit . . .

~ s w o o n ~


AP

Jay in Phoenix wrote:Bottoms up Waxy.

Wishful thinking, sinner.

Papa Willie wrote:Corks? Decks?


God DAMN, dudes.

Put a cork in it porky.

Oxidized glass combs from Mars?

"Cork it Mr. Svelte" just doesn't have the same...je ne sais quoi...eh...assonance?

I saw Brittney Skye use a cork made of glass once.

It wasn't made to plug up a wine bottle and I don't know if I wanted to stick around for sulfates escaping

Dinsdale wrote:Cork is actually an issue these days. Takes forever to grow cork properly (comes from oak trees), and demand exceeded supply over the years, and now, there's some really low quality shit out there, and anything decent is ridiculously priced.

My wife and I have probably over 1500 corks in boxes. Are they worth anything?

And, yes, we love wine.

Go Coogs' wrote:

Dinsdale wrote:Cork is actually an issue these days. Takes forever to grow cork properly (comes from oak trees), and demand exceeded supply over the years, and now, there's some really low quality shit out there, and anything decent is ridiculously priced.

My wife and I have probably over 1500 corks in boxes. Are they worth anything?

And, yes, we love wine.

We've been saving them for years. I'm thinking of building a raft and sailing it up the Rhone.

Goober McTuber wrote:

Moving Sale wrote:It's a glass stopper not a cork. A cork is made out of cork.

Could you possibly any more tedious?

You can butcher English all you want, that doesn't mean I'm not going to call you out on it.

Dins,
It comes from two specific types of oak trees, which is probably what you meant to say. More specifically the bark of the Quercus suber or more rarely Quercus variabilis.

Sorry.

Could you possibly be any more tedious? You fucking iodiot.

Just one question, do you call the glass dildo you stick in your ass every night a cork?

Go Coogs' wrote: My wife and I have probably over 1500 corks in boxes.

Why?

Moving Sale wrote:Just one question, do you call the glass dildo you stick in your ass every night a cork?

Why yes, you certainly can be more tedious.

Way to actually address my posts. Any other diversions or dodging you would like to do?

Moving Sale wrote:Way to actually address my posts. Any other diversions or dodging you would like to do?

Sorry again. I don't stick dildos of any kind in my ass.

Do you still have an obsessive fascination with black cock?

Well now at least you are trying.
I'll try it with a little less snark.
Does your GF call the glass dildo she sticks in her ass when you are not available to fill her needs, a cork?

Moving Sale wrote:Well now at least you are trying.
I'll try it with a little less snark.
Does your GF call the glass dildo she sticks in her ass when you are not available to fill her needs, a cork?

Way to actually address my post. Any other diversions or dodging you would like to do?