T1B

I've scrolled most of the 9/11 threads in here.
It's all become very repetitive, so I've just read posts here and there.
That said, forgive me if this point has been covered before.

I'm just curious what you think about this.

Bush was informed (or saw on TV, he later claimed) just minutes before his school event that day that a plane had hit the first tower.
He said they all assumed it was just a pilot problem, so he went on with the event at the school.

At 9:06, Andy Card came up to him and whispered that the 2nd tower had just been hit by a plane and that America is under attack.

-- And the President just sat there --

He sat for nearly 10 minutes, although security cameras at the school would supposedly later show that he actually stayed up to 10 minutes more than that.

Bush said that Ari Fleischer held up a sign in the back of the room telling Bush not to say anything.

And of course GW said he didn't want to alarm the kids, or anyone else, and he wanted to project calm, etc.

Okay...


1) If the nation is under attack, doesn't the Commander in Chief have some emergency duties he must IMMEDIATELY attend to? I mean, in a "nation under attack" scenario, people could be potentially killed if actions to PREVENT assault are not taken, right? Seems the dude should have had shit he IMMEDIATELY needed to attend to.

2) In a "nation under attack" scenario, shouldn't the Commander in Chief be immediately whisked off to a secure location? Because since nobody knew for sure what all was going down, the enemy could have known where the Commander in Chief was sitting, and he could have been a target.


What was up with the President just sitting there?

Takes?

Can we get a 9/11 forum up in this bitch?

Why are you so obsessed with 9/11?

It's fucking creepy.

Diego in Seattle wrote:Can we get a 9/11 forum up in this bitch?

9/11? Thought 12 to 13 was more to your liking.

seek help.

^ Racketh!

The duck dies.

Papa Willie wrote:Well - we do have an expert, but I guess he's too busy trying to record something. :grin:

poptart wrote:Why did Bush just sit there?

He was waiting on his VP to make the call?

Also, http://rotten.com/library/crime/terrorism/september_11/

That link is blocked in S. Korea.

What's the gist of it?

It seems obvious (to me) that the Commander in Chief needed to get up immediately and take actions.
So why didn't he?

Possibilities...

1) Bush was stunned and he just froze.

2) He sat still on purpose because he really did think that was the best thing to do in that moment.

3) He had foreknowledge of the attacks and he sat still in order to allow it to go to it's conclusion.

4) He sat still because he was just a puppet. Ari Fleischer held up the sign in the back telling him not to say anything, so he didn't. He just sat still until further notice.


I lean toward #4 -- with a little bit of #1 tossed in.

poptart wrote:That link is blocked in S. Korea.

What's the gist of it?

I'll C&P and send it to you later in PM.

poptart wrote:It seems obvious (to me) that the Commander in Chief needed to get up immediately and take actions.
So why didn't he?

Possibilities...

1) Bush was stunned and he just froze.

2) He sat still on purpose because he really did think that was the best thing to do in that moment.

3) He had foreknowledge of the attacks and he sat still in order to allow it to go to it's conclusion.

4) He sat still because he was just a puppet. Ari Fleischer held up the sign in the back telling him not to say anything, so he didn't. He just sat still until further notice.


I lean toward #4 -- with a little bit of #1 tossed in.

#3

Sincerely,

LTS TARD

5) He really wanted to find out how the story ended.

He was waiting to blame Obama.

{alternateuniverse] President Al Gore: "Holy shit, those bastards really hate us for global warming----sorry kids, I've got to get to a safe place, this room could be the next target." POTUS and entourage scramble out into their bullet proof SUVs and head for Air Force One.[/alternateuniverse]

5. None of the above.

The only curious thing is the stupidity of these "theories."

He stayed put for a few minutes so the Secret Service could do its job. Obviously there was some sort of major terrorist event happening but, other than that, we didn't know shit. We did not know the identity of the attackers, their numbers, their locations or their targets. The only thing the SS knew for certain was that POTUS was at a scheduled event with a fully developed security plan and agents in place securing the site. Moving POTUS at an unscheduled time to an unscheduled location required some on the fly adjustments to the protection scheme. That took a few minutes. This was not a drill...

And, no, there is nothing that he needs to do "immediately." What the fuck is he even supposed to do? Dash into the nearest mop closet (s'up Screwy) and then fly away in red, white and blue leotards to vanquish evil doooers? Decisions can't be made at the highest level until reports from the scene/s can be collected and forwarded to the highest level. Again, this is not an instantaneous process.

mvscal wrote:5. None of the above.

The only curious thing is the stupidity of these "theories."

He stayed put for a few minutes so the Secret Service could do its job. Obviously there was some sort of major terrorist event happening but, other than that, we didn't know shit. We did not know the identity of the attackers, their numbers, their locations or their targets. The only thing the SS knew for certain was that POTUS was at a scheduled event with a fully developed security plan and agents in place securing the site. Moving POTUS at an unscheduled time to an unscheduled location required some on the fly adjustments to the protection scheme. That took a few minutes. This was not a drill...

Wrong, twatwaffle.

Does it take a quarterback several minutes to make "on the fly adjustments" when the defense he's facing changes their scheme each play?

The SS has numerous routes already planned for every contingency (planning for such is part of the responsibility for the advance team). With the departure of POTUS happening at a time other than when it was scheduled also provides a slight advantage. And lastly, the safest place for POTUS is on AF1. Frankly the more I think of it I'm surprised that Bush didn't get the same treatment that Cheney got.

That quarterback analogy is as fucked up as the little boy's butt in front of you.

"Sorry kids, but I just found out that New York City is under terrorist attack. No need to panic. I'm just going to hang with you here for a few minutes while Ari goes and retrieves my security detail from the Kit Kat Club.

Now...where were we...?"

88 wrote:What difference at this point does it make?

I see what you did there. Why are you hiding behind a POS like HC? Do you think that somehow helps your case?

mvscal wrote:5. None of the above.

The only curious thing is the stupidity of these "theories."

He stayed put for a few minutes so the Secret Service could do its job. Obviously there was some sort of major terrorist event happening but, other than that, we didn't know shit. We did not know the identity of the attackers, their numbers, their locations or their targets. The only thing the SS knew for certain was that POTUS was at a scheduled event with a fully developed security plan and agents in place securing the site. Moving POTUS at an unscheduled time to an unscheduled location required some on the fly adjustments to the protection scheme. That took a few minutes. This was not a drill...

And, no, there is nothing that he needs to do "immediately." What the fuck is he even supposed to do? Dash into the nearest mop closet (s'up Screwy) and then fly away in red, white and blue leotards to vanquish evil doooers? Decisions can't be made at the highest level until reports from the scene/s can be collected and forwarded to the highest level. Again, this is not an instantaneous process.

mvscal wrote:And, no, there is nothing that he needs to do "immediately.

Really?

Maybe at the very least -----> find out what's going down?


Oh well, others were doing that.

See my #4.

He didn't know what to do, and thought that others were taking care of it. Unfortunately, they weren't.

Bush didn't want to jump to conclusions and make a mistake like invade Iraq unnecessarily......wait.

poptart wrote:

mvscal wrote:And, no, there is nothing that he needs to do "immediately.

Really?

Really.

Maybe at the very least -----> find out what's going down?

That is something the President of the United States needs to tend to personally? Nobody on his staff or in any one of dozens of agencies in the executive branch capable of obtaining the information?

See my #4.

I did. It was quite idiotic and you aren't doing yourself any favors by continuing to draw attention to it.

mvscal wrote:That is something the President of the United States needs to tend to personally? Nobody on his staff or in any one of dozens of agencies in the executive branch capable of obtaining the information?

They did.

They came in and told him his country is under attack.




And Mr. Nuclear Football sat for a very long time, reading a book with a bunch of kids.


Dude, if Barry had done this same thing, you would NEVER let it go.

NEVER.

I understand that your worldview predisposes you to magical thinking but you're simply full of shit. There is nothing to criticize. I couldn't care less who was sitting in the chair. There was nothing any POTUS could or even should have been doing at that time.

The country was under attack? OK. By whom? Where? With What? How many of them? Where are they? Until those blanks start to fill in, there isn't any 'deciding' to do at the Presidential level.

Papa Willie wrote:He might have had an erection, and didn't want to show the kids that.

/s/
Moving Pedo

whoa

mvscal wrote:
The country was under attack? OK. By whom? Where? With What? How many of them? Where are they? Until those blanks start to fill in, there isn't any 'deciding' to do at the Presidential level.

But see, popoff can't understand or has likely never been in a position where you have people under you performing the tasks they need to, the tasks they were hired or placed to do, the task they were trained to do, the task they expect to do, and then when the need for any decisions need to be made beyond those levels, that is when the top nuts can do what ever they need to do.

This is all coming from a guy who contacts random strangers and thumps the Bible at them and then wonders why he thinks they are getting ready to go all Dalhmer on him. Of course since his boy Barry has all the leadership skills of the fucking hood rat he is, no surprise there.

Derron wrote:This is all coming from a guy who contacts random strangers and thumps the Bible at them

poptart wrote:A grandfatherly man gave me a "hello" and said few things to me in English as I was at the post office a couple of weeks ago.

He approached me, dolt.

Facts?

Not in a DUHrron post.

mvscal wrote:The country was under attack? OK. By whom? Where? With What? How many of them? Where are they? Until those blanks start to fill in, there isn't any 'deciding' to do at the Presidential level.

Bush didn't know the answer to any of those things.

He knew one plane went into the WTC.
Now he knew a 2nd one did.
He knows the country is under attack.

It's a pretty serious moment, mvscal.

Just to sit there and think, "There's nothing for me, the top man, to do right now," and assume that everyone "under" you has got it all handled?

Sorry, I just don't agree with your analysis.

Totally agree with mvscal on this one. TOTALLY.

Good Lord, why are we still talking about this?

Derron wrote: But see, popoff can't understand or has likely never been in a position where you have people under you performing the tasks they need to, the tasks they were hired or placed to do, the task they were trained to do, the task they expect to do, and then when the need for any decisions need to be made beyond those levels, that is when the top nuts can do what ever they need to do.

But those people under him WEREN'T performing the tasks they needed to, the tasks they were hired or placed or trained to do, or expected to do, you fucking idiot. That's why there was complete gridlock and inaction throughout the executive branch and associated federal agencies. As the saying goes, the left hand didn't know what the right hand was doing, and everyone kept passing the buck to each other.

No go fuck yourself, cunt.

trev wrote:Totally agree with mvscal on this one. TOTALLY.

Good Lord, why are we still talking about this?

Get back to the kiddie table. The adults are talking.

Screw_Michigan wrote:

Derron wrote: But see, popoff can't understand or has likely never been in a position where you have people under you performing the tasks they need to, the tasks they were hired or placed to do, the task they were trained to do, the task they expect to do, and then when the need for any decisions need to be made beyond those levels, that is when the top nuts can do what ever they need to do.

But those people under him WEREN'T performing the tasks they needed to, the tasks they were hired or placed or trained to do, or expected to do, you fucking idiot. That's why there was complete gridlock and inaction throughout the executive branch and associated federal agencies. As the saying goes, the left hand didn't know what the right hand was doing, and everyone kept passing the buck to each other.

No go fuck yourself, cunt.

And just what the fukk could they have done that would have mattered? This was completely out of left field. And the next time the fukkers hit us, it will be again

Halt thrusters. DUHrron post coming. Dead ahead!

smackaholic wrote: And just what the fukk could they have done that would have mattered?

Suggestion #1 would be to have the commander in fucking chief start calling the shots, instead of his fucking deputy.

Screw_Michigan wrote:

trev wrote:Totally agree with mvscal on this one. TOTALLY.

Good Lord, why are we still talking about this?

Get back to the kiddie table. The adults are talking.

So, why do you sound like a middle-schooler?

poptart wrote:Just to sit there and think, "There's nothing for me, the top man, to do right now,"

What was he supposed to do in your estimation, dash into the nearest phone booth and don his Superman outfit? Make the world revolve backwards while he grounded those planes?

Almost 14 years later, now you've got an axe to grind?

Find another shark to jump.

88 wrote: 1. Please specify the shots he did he not call in that 20 minute period in question, which he should have called if he was doing the job in the manner you believe is appropriate.

To shoot down the aircraft.

2. Please state the bad consequences that flowed from the shots not being called during that 20 minute period identified in your answer to #2.

By your logic...none, because all four aircraft had crashed at the time.

I suggest you read the 9/11 Commission report sometime. Or as you ilk in Washington call it: The 9-1-1 Report.

War Wagon wrote:What was he supposed to do in your estimation, dash into the nearest phone booth and don his Superman outfit? Make the world revolve backwards while he grounded those planes?

Don't you remember his posturing on how he insisted on returning to DC but was told it wasn't safe enough to return?

Yes, he's the original tough guy, except he was letting Cheney call the shots. Because being former defense secretary is good enough in Bush's chain of command.