Gee, Never Saw This Coming...

[Diego in Seattle]

Indiana’s got a problem: Too many teachers don’t want to work there anymore
By Valerie Strauss August 13 at 4:00 AM

Indiana Gov. Mike Pence takes a question during a news conference on March 31 in Indianapolis. (Darron Cummings/AP)

Indiana’s got a problem: Teachers increasingly don’t want to work in the state anymore. The problem has become so acute that some school districts have have had a hard time finding enough teachers to cover classes for the new school year — and some lawmakers want a legislative committee to discuss the shortage.

The percentage of all teachers getting a teaching license — including veterans — fell by more than 50 percent from 2009-10 to 2013-14, and there was an 18.5 percent decline in the number of licenses issued to new teachers during the same period, according to Indiana Department of Education figures.

And, as the Greensburg Daily News reported in a story in early July, fewer students are enrolling in teacher preparation programs at Indiana universities. It said:

At Indiana State University, enrollment in the elementary education program has remained steady, but other areas, especially sciences, are seeing fewer students, said Judy Sheese, assistant dean for teacher education at the university’s Bayh College of Education.

She said she gets weekly — if not daily — calls from principals asking whether the university has any seniors who will soon graduate with a degree in math or English.

“We don’t have any,” she said.

The Muncie Star-Press reported in December 2014 that enrollment in the program to train kindergarten and elementary school teachers fell by 45 percent from the previous decade.

What’s going on? Pretty much the same thing as in Arizona, Kansas and other states where teachers are fleeing: a combination of under-resourced schools, the loss of job protections, unfair teacher evaluation methods, an increase in the amount of mandated standardized testing and the loss of professional autonomy.

The teacher shortage in Indiana is becoming such a problem that some state lawmakers want a legislative committee to study the issue and come up with solutions. According to the Indianapolis Star, the Republican chairmen of the House and Senate education committees have asked General Assembly leaders to approve having the legislative education study committee review what is causing the drop and how the state could respond.

For one thing, they can look in the mirror. The Republican leadership of the state — including Gov. Mike Pence — showed their respect for teachers by working very hard this year to strip power from Indiana Superintendent of Public Instruction Glenda Ritz, a veteran educator who won election to the post in 2012 (by defeating Tony Bennett, the incumbent who was a protege of former Florida governor Jeb Bush). Oh, by the way, she is a Democrat. David Long, the Republican president of the Indiana Senate, said while explaining why the legislature would want to remove Ritz as chairman of the state Board of Education: “In all fairness, Superintendent Ritz was a librarian, okay?”

No, not okay. Ritz worked as an educator and media specialist who won teacher of the year awards at two different schools.

For 2015-17, the state Legislature gave less funding to urban schools and more to charter schools and private schools that accept students with vouchers. A new school funding formula, according to Chalkbeat Indiana, has led to this situation:

Of the 25 school districts with the highest family income, all of them will get more per-student state aid over the next two years.

But what about the 25 with the lowest family income? Just 12 of them get more money in 2016 and 2017 across the board — in overall state aid and per-student aid. The rest get less in one or both areas.

This all helps explain why fewer teachers are finding Indiana a desirable place to work.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ans ... e-anymore/

Wisconsin will be joining them very soon....

[Wolfman]

Must be I missed them, but I don't see any facts or figures, just a lot of whining. What are teacher's starting salaries, top salaries, benefits? I taught in the public schools in NY for 32 years. I was paid well. did not have fully paid health insurance, had no dental insurance at all. What I did get as a Tier One retiree, was a pretty good pension. Even that is 90% funded by investments and not by tax payers. I do not get health insurance with my pension.

[Goober McTuber]

You don't see any facts and figures? Might be time for the cataract surgery.

[Wolfman]

I re=read the post and the link to the Washington Compost and still do not see the stats I was looking for. Maybe you need a brain transplant.

[Goober McTuber]

There's plenty of stats there, just not the ones you are looking for? Do you really even need stats to figure this out?

Gee, if you continually vilify a specific profession, you mean less people will want to pursue that profession? Ponderous. The best part of you being a retired teacher is the "retired" part.

[BSmack]

Looks like the invisible hand of the market is fingerbanging the kids of Indiana.

[mvscal]

What’s going on? Pretty much the same thing as in Arizona, Kansas and other states where teachers are fleeing: a combination of under-resourced schools, the loss of job protections, unfair teacher evaluation methods, an increase in the amount of mandated standardized testing and the loss of professional autonomy.

Low grade morons fleeing accountability for their staggering incompetence is supposed to be a bad thing?

[Y2K]

They can always come out west and work for LA Unified, Oakland Public Schools, Fresno Unified ect, and make those big bucks. They'll be singing "Back Home In Indiana" soon enough".

[BSmack]

How much should a teacher get paid?

Enough to keep some around would be a start.

[Ken]

How much should a teacher get paid?

If they have a passion for what they do and truly care about making a difference in kids' lives.... six figures. Regrettably, the system isn't set up as such.

[Diego in Seattle]

How much should a teacher get paid?

Enough to keep some around would be a start.

Ain't it funny how conservatives are all about market forces and supply & demand all the other times, but when it comes to raising wages those things don't apply?

LS;
What grade does your wife teach?

[trev]

Most of the teachers here make enough for a comfortable life. You don't see any of them on skid row or having to bum for basics. Most of them take at least one nice vacation per year. They get a lot of time off- which they deserve. They get insurance, holiday pay, vacation pay and sick time. Those add up to lots of paid days. They will get a pretty sweet pension and be able to retire fairly early, earlier than most American's get to retire. They could make more money in the private sector, but that's not what they chose. They chose to teach and knew going in what was involved.

As far as the article, school choice would solve that. Vouchers. Stop throwing more money on something that isn't working.

[poptart]

How much should a teacher get paid?

Enough to keep some around would be a start.

Ain't it funny how conservatives are all about market forces and supply & demand all the other times, but when it comes to raising wages those things don't apply?

*SHIT TAKE ALERT*



It's NOT free market.

If other states are fiscally irresponsible, run continual deficits, rape the taxpayers (and future taxpayers), overpay teachers and give them kingly benefits, of COURSE teachers would rather go to those states and teach.
But it's unsustainable for the state.


Ken says 6 figures for a teacher?

185 days of work a year?


Nuts.

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

[Diego in Seattle]

As far as the article, school choice would solve that. Vouchers. Stop throwing more money on something that isn't working.

1) Republicans have long been known for cutting public school funding. And now they're say that public schools aren't working. Money won't solve all the problems of public education, but it's definitely part of it.


2) So you say the answer is to use vouchers that can be used for private schools?

Let's say that a couple sends their child to a private school for $5,000/year (I have no idea what they actually cost, so I threw that hypothetical number out there). Now you want to give this couple (and all the other private school parents) $5,000 vouchers. Wanna take a guess at what the school is going to charge?

Go back to nursing your paper bag-wrapped bottle.

[poptart]

Piling on is a dick move.

[poptart]

Republicans have long been known for cutting public school funding.

The Dept of Education/Indoctrination is unconstitutional.
Of COURSE it needs to go bye bye.

Should have never started.

[Diego in Seattle]

Republicans have long been known for cutting public school funding.

The Dept of Education/Indoctrination is unconstitutional.
Of COURSE it needs to go bye bye.

Should have never started.

Way to avoid the point, thumper.

[poptart]

1) Republicans have long been known for cutting public school funding. And now they're say that public schools aren't working. Money won't solve all the problems of public education, but it's definitely part of it.

Data shows the exact opposite to be true.

http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/education_spending

We've doubled our education spending (as pct of GDP) since the 1950s, yet the U.S. now ranks embarrassingly low in world education rankings.

More money is OBVIOUSLY not the answer.


Localize education, as is constitutional.
Almost certainly means spending is CUT.
Pay teachers a rational wage (and benefits).

[BSmack]

If you can't figure out if a teacher sucks in 3 years, then you shouldn't be in the business of grading teachers. As long as political favor is an issue at the local level, tenure is needed.

[Left Seater]

How much should a teacher get paid?

Enough to keep some around would be a start.

Ain't it funny how conservatives are all about market forces and supply & demand all the other times, but when it comes to raising wages those things don't apply?

LS;
What grade does your wife teach?

You missed the union connection. When you want higher wages for less work and less accountability of course rational people will have an issue with that.

My wife is not a teacher.

[Diego in Seattle]

Enough to keep some around would be a start.

Ain't it funny how conservatives are all about market forces and supply & demand all the other times, but when it comes to raising wages those things don't apply?

LS;
What grade does your wife teach?

You missed the union connection. When you want higher wages for less work and less accountability of course rational people will have an issue with that.

Considering Michael Ovitz got $90 mil after being fired for 18 months of bad work, I'd say you're barking up the wrong tree.

My wife is not a teacher.

My bad. It's 88's wife who's the teacher. 88?

[mvscal]

1) Republicans have long been known for cutting public school funding.

Well at least they're doing one thing right. Public education (should it exist at all in any form) should be grades 1-6. You would be taught to read, write and do basic arithmetic. Anything beyond that is on you and your family.

[Diego in Seattle]

7th and 8th grade special ed.

And what comprises the 185 days of work?

[R-Jack]

Average teacher salary is just a bit over $65,000

Adjust that to a full work year, that would roll up to close to $85,000

Not that bad. I'd leave my job for that and those bennis. If cash was short, I have a few months to work a summer job.

Yeah, you're not going to go home and shit into a golden plated toilet, but if you can't live on that.....that's on you.

[Go Coogs']

Money has very little to do with it.

Diego's cartoon explains it perfectly. My wife was a teacher for 12 years and she just got out because she was fed up with never having any backing from the parents or administration. In most cases the finger pointing is made in the teachers direction. There truly is no incentive to be a teacher at a $52k/year salary down here in Texas if you're being blamed for everything.

Mrs. Rumps give-a-shit meter broke a long time ago when she was given a heads up about an incoming student who's mother sued the district because he failed the 6th grade. Mrs. Rumps was told by the administration to handle this 9th grader with kid gloves. Basically, she was told to do whatever it took to make sure this kid had every opportunity to pass her class. And in that same year they introduced a program that a minimum grade of 50 would be given on assignments that were not turned in on time if the student came in after school and did the assignment in the teacher's class. Yes, you heard that right. My wife had to stay after school on her personal time and allow kids to re-take an assignment they didn't bother to turn in on the due date. And no matter how poorly they did on the re-take, they received a 50.

Like 88 said, teacher performance gains you very little financially because performance doesn't give you a raise. There are some bad ass passionate teachers out there who are making the same money some jerkoff is making by doing the very minimum to stay employed. I laughed my ass off when Obama gave a speech a few years back at one of his SotU addresses and said teachers need to be held to higher standards and if they can't cut it, then schools need to find someone that will. Uh, yeah. Good luck with that.

[War Wagon]

Average teacher salary is just a bit over $65,000

:? :? :?

Where?

My daughter wants to know.

[BSmack]

Have her come to New York. She won't start at 65k, but even on Tier 7 NYS benefits she will do better than she could in Misery.

[R-Jack]

65k is the average for the state(not Milton). Some earn lots more. Lots earn some less.

I'm pretty sure it's an inflated pay scale, but the whole cost of living thing evens it out.

Either way, it's not a kings ransom but it is a respectable wage for the work, especially when you factor in not coming out of pocket for your health or your retirement. Problem is that shitty little millennials have no concept of planning for the future or wanting to commit to something that takes time out of their adult kickball schedule

[War Wagon]

In Missouri they make more money depending on their degree. Almost EVERY teacher at my kids grade school had a masters...

She has a masters degree, got hired right out of school at a juco as the head softball coach. She also has to teach 6 credit hour classes per semester.

They started her at $38,500 per year. She's been there 3 years now, has gotten a few increases, but nowhere near $65k.

She is also required by the MPERS union to contribute an obscene amount to the public teacher retirement fund, which pisses her off no end as she will probably never see a dime of it. Maybe she will, I don't know.

[Diego in Seattle]

88;
My 7th & 8th grade teachers (especially those that taught the core courses) had about 90-120 students. So imagine all the time required to grade quizzes, tests, and papers. I don't know how many students your wife has, but I doubt that she has anywhere near that many nor the complexity of work to review that other teachers do. Time is also required to prepare the next day's lesson plan. On top of that there's in-service training that goes on when school is not in session. Additionally teachers have to plan out their school year while the kids are out for summer (or winter) break. Some teachers will stay late or come early to watch over the kids arriving or departing from the buses. Some will have to pull detention duty. So it's not a case of showing up 15 minutes before the kids do & jetting five minutes after the last bell rings with no other responsibilities or cares. To simply say that teachers work 185 days is inaccurately simplistic & disrespectful.

[Screw_Michigan]

Problem is that shitty little millennials have no concept of planning for the future or wanting to commit to something that takes time out of their adult kickball schedule

I prefer bocce. It's pretty sweet, we're undefeated.

[trev]

Teachers here get paid more if they have the master's degree but it's not required. Most get the degree (it can be in anything) just because the money paid for degree is worth the increase in pay. The district wants "professional" teachers.

If you go into teaching later and don't get your 25 years in, there is still a pretty nice retirement package after you reach a certain age.

88 is correct. And it's great supplemental income, because, let's face it, there are many more women that go into teaching than men.

[trev]

88,

And, don't discount your wife's ability for what she does. Not everyone can do that job. Highly compensated or not. It's not was easy as it seems sometimes.

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

It's not was easy as it seems sometimes.

:|

[Screw_Michigan]

Teachers work 185 school days per year (assuming the snow doesn't fly, and their workday is canceled while the rest of us continue to function). That is not inaccurate. It is the truth. And I'm not disrespecting the career path. Teachers know exactly what they are getting into when they choose that path. True, some of them flunked out of other majors and decided to teach. But many of them chose that career without blinders.

My wife's undergraduate degree is in hospitality management (aka hotel and restaurant management). She did that for several years, until we decided to start a family. She was a stay-at-home mom before our kids got into elementary school, then decided she wanted to work again. Hotel/restaurant management was out, since it was nights and weekends. So we discussed different options and decided that becoming a teacher was the best option. Her workday would coincide with that of the kids. It had magnificent benefits. And all she needed to do was get a masters in education. She was told that the easiest path to employment in this part of Ohio (where there is a glut of teachers) was special education. She nailed it in 2 years and graduated with a 4.0.

She got a job right away in a suburban district near us. She loves the kids and the school. She likes the work. Now she has 8 years under her belt. She will never get the 30 she needs to suck down a 100% retirement benefit. But she will get something for her time. Whatever.

Teachers are highly compensated. There is nothing my wife could have selected in the private sector that would have been as easy to achieve and which paid her as handsomely as she is paid. That is the truth, in all respect.

Nice long-winded way to call your wife a well-paid babysitter. I can't think of a profession that requires a unique skill set and patience like special education teachers. Those people are miracle workers. I probably wouldn't last five days teaching special ed students. You may mix it up with the tards in this sordid clambake, but that pales in comparison to real life.

What if your wife read what you just wrote here?

[Screw_Michigan]

Notice I haven't once mentioned compensation, tardling, so I don't know why you keep bringing it up. I just believe our society treats teachers like shit and it's embarrassing. Assholes who treat teachers like shit deserved to get kicked in the nuts.

[Atomic Punk]

Never in the history of this board I could say Ped0, Bsmacked, and Screwball made good sense in one singular thread. Also, that pic above pretty much sums it up.

[The State]

Never in the history of this board I could say Ped0, Bsmacked, and Screwball made good sense in one singular thread. Also, that pic above pretty much sums it up.

[BSmack]

No business could afford the wages and benefits paid to teachers, particularly when outcomes were considered. That is not disrespectful. That is fact.

When you consider the ROI that a good teacher is responsible for giving in terms of future tax dollars, it is money well spent.