Lefty, do you think this is true?

[Rooster]

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-new ... 180961475/

According to this article airline pilots are more depressed than the average American. I am wondering if it has anything to do with being in the IFR environment? I just finished getting requaled in the S-61 as a PIC after being out of the instrument world for the past six years and was just thinking before my check ride how miserable flying IFR is. Mind you, I like flying instruments for the game-like experience of it and for the competition of doing it better than the guy in the other seat, but IFR in general is just miserable with all the rules and strict criteria for shooting approaches.

Speaking of the S-61, for those of you who don't know what that bird is, it's the same aircraft as the one which blessedly flew Obama in irrelevance and obscurity yesterday. I watched the whole start-up and departure sequence with a sense of deja vu because, well, I actually had been there before. That varient is the "Shortsky" 61 and has various doodads that ours don't, but the basic machine is the same early 1960s technology with no auto-throttle or FADEC systems. There is a glass cockpit version, but that's gilding a sow's ear.

[smackaholic]

Now that I deal with airports and the TSA on a regular basis and see the rampant dumbfukkery that is their world, my guess is that the fact that they have to deal with this (in spades, I would think) combined and the laughable pay they receive, at least while they are breaking in to the industry, it is a wonder they can find anyone to do it.

What is typical pay these days for a young guy flying a commuter jet, or even one that has finally got the hours under his belt to ride shotgun on a 737 or similar? From what I know, which is admittedly very little, these poor fukks aren't making much more than the waitress back aft.

When you look at the level of training and the responsibility they have, their pay is a joke. I think this has more of an effect than having to fly instruments regularly.

[Left Seater]

I don't think it has to do with IFR. I think it has much more to do with spending so much time away from family and friends.

And granted I am not an airline guy but I still hand fly the bird a ton. Lots of approaches and landings are hand flown by Lefty. Still IFR but that will keep you on your toes. Plenty of opportunity to go VFR out here west of SAT. I have a number of buddies with small planes and I will tag along with them at times.

Here's hoping the next gen ATC comes along soon. That will still be IFR, but will allow us much more flexibility to set our own routes.

Holic, I don't think the pay is so much the issue as much as the commuting these guys do. That is the dangerous and scary part.

[Wolfman]

The only reason I get on a plane is to get somewhere as quickly and safely as possible. I can't imagine doing it for a living. And that would go for any mode of transportation.
I also sympathize with people like pro athletes, salesmen, and others who travel all the time. I would never want to live out of a suitcase any more than about the 2 weeks I might be on a vacation.

[smackaholic]

Pay certainly isn't the only and maybe not even a leading reason, but the fact remains that while money may not buy happiness, the lack of it can take huge stinky, messy shit all over what happiness you may have. I did a bit of reading on it and from what I read, if you go the civilian route, you fork out 150K for your edumacashum, then spend a decade pretty much working for a few bucks over minimum wage. Is there any other career out there that pays so fucking horribly yet requires not only high levels of schooling, but demonstrable competence? I doubt it. I guess they can get away with this because so many people just love to fly planes.

[Rooster]

For years that was precisely why pay was so abysmal for helicopter pilots. Guys would get into it after coming back from flying in Vietnam or forking over tens of thousands of dollars and then work for next to nothing because it was fun to do. There were very few rules and the general attitude was it was the wild, wild West.

Helo flying has become far more corporate and many companies have installed tattle-tale reporting devices on their aircraft in the name of customer service, but the real reason is they want the pilots flying the helicopters like airliners. Combat flying is really the last frontier of seat-of-the-pants flying, although Alaska bush hopping is supposed to be pretty close to the edge of the envelope.

These days it'll cost you $70,000 to earn your rotary wing license, but you have a ticket and only 200-300 hours of flight time. You need 1500 hours to fly a commercial job other than teaching, so that can take years to get. There are a ton of jobs out there, but most pay right around $60,000 to start. It scut work out in west Texas or Nebraska, but it'll get you some experience.

The big money comes from overseas contracts, mostly for Unc'a Sammy, but some missionary work will pay $75,000 a month. But you're expected to... convert a lot of people. The food and accomodations generally aren't very good either. Helicopter operators will pay well for the hardships you'll endure, but the premium pay goes to more adventurous pilots.

As to the original question, helicopter flying is probably like most other jobs in that it can be fun, but there are plenty of boring weeks where you dream if doing something else somewhere else. If you do anything long enough it'll get dull soon, but aviation in general is fluid enough that you'll be looking for work soon anyway. I've only known one pilot who killed himself. He always lived in the past and pined for the days when he was a snake driver in Vietnam. Nothing else compared to it for him and it was his entire existence. You couldn't have a conversation with him without it being brought into the subject at hand. It was pretty sad.

[Left Seater]

Holic you are mostly correct. With Military cuts and growing commercial air service the retirees from the service can no longer fill all the jobs. On top of that lots of foreign airlines like to hire Americans to sit up front and we have these pilot shortages we have seen recently. Then add to that the mandatory retirement at 65 and it is tough to keep all the jobs filled.

This has helped entry level pay with bonuses and housing allowances but hasn't completely solved the issues. Maybe it is time to adopt the model Singapore and Cathay are using. They supplement their pilot ranks with pilots that are relatively young. They take HS graduates and send them thru their own college academy. These students are trained in the airlines procedures right off the hop and fly small corporate jets the airline owns. When they graduate they are released to fly the line.

[smackaholic]

Sounds like the slopes have it right. Take kids with the aptitude and desire to fly and get them trained up while they are young. It is a known fact that kids are sponges and can learn things quicker and better than we more seasoned folk. We did this during WWII. Back then, an 18 year old kid with the right skill set could find himself driving a P-51 in combat before he was 20. I suspect doing that took a hell of a lot more skill than flying today's jets does. Hell, it might not be a bad idea to get them into the pipeline at even earlier ages. With today's online simulator programs, it is very easy to figure out which kids have the necessary traits without spending anything at all. Take the cream of the crop and train them up. You could have highly skilled pilots capable of flying anything by the time they are done with high school. And they would have a level of familiarity with these skills that could never be taught to a 25 year old who's brain has been filled full of garbage by that age. I'll bet the Chinese do this to breed military pilots. They do it for far more trivial things like athletes.

[The Big Pickle]

According to this article airline pilots are more depressed than the average American.

Of course they are depressed because every one of these WHITE CHRISTIAN Pilots has to go through the same screening and pat down process as the muslim allahu Akbar chanting sheetskin sandni@@er terrorist every day they go to work.

I'm okay with making sure they are sober enough to fly, but we don't need to make them take off their shoes every flight to check for explosive!

[The Big Pickle]

Since we have all the pilots in this topic, I'd like to revisit one of my first posts from 1998.

Knowing what we know about affirmative action and lowering the bar so afros can get a job....would you board this plane...with these pilots?

[Rooster]

Looks like a flight crew from TAAG. Not necessarily a lot of talent, but are politically connected, thus get the glamour jobs.

[Left Seater]

I would want to know their employer before I made a decision. The employer scares me far more than the sex and race of the pilots.