T1B

Tired of winning yet?

Oh yeah: Fuck Trump and fuck everyone who voted for him.

Nice melt. That happens to snowflakes.

Reset

88 wrote:When Obamacare craters the treasury, I hope you guys remember to come here and claim bode.

Trump and the Trumpettes will do their best to make sure that happens.

It's remarkable. They've had seven years to come up with a better plan, and had nothing. They voted 60 times to repeal the ACA when they knew they didn't actually have to come up with a workable replacement but when they had their chance they showed what true chickshits they really are. What a bunch of fucking losers.

They could have worked with the Dems to fix the problems with ACA but of course wouldn't be satisfied with anything but total repeal. Now they own it. If the system craters they'll do their best to blame Obama and Meryl Streep but people (hopefully) will be better at seeing through their bullshit by then.

88 wrote:When Obamacare craters the treasury, I hope you guys remember to come here and claim bode.

If anything craters the treasury it'll be the half a trillion dollars we spend on defense spending.

Mikey wrote:

88 wrote:When Obamacare craters the treasury, I hope you guys remember to come here and claim bode.

Trump and the Trumpettes will do their best to make sure that happens.

It's remarkable. They've had seven years to come up with a better plan, and had nothing. They voted 60 times to repeal the ACA when they knew they didn't actually have to come up with a workable replacement but when they had their chance they showed what true chickshits they really are. What a bunch of fucking losers.

They could have worked with the Dems to fix the problems with ACA but of course wouldn't be satisfied with anything but total repeal. Now they own it. If the system craters they'll do their best to blame Obama and Meryl Streep but people (hopefully) will be better at seeing through their bullshit by then.

My favorite part of the day was immediately after Trump got bent over. He had a post-coital media session in the Oval Office and called Chuck Schumer and Nanci Pelosi "the real losers." Bwaha.

The real losers are us the American public that is stuck with ACA and its shit.

What, you're also a total fraud in attempting to speak on basic issues? No surprise. Go ahead, professional pilot, tell us a bit about the machinations of Big Pharma as it put the major headlock on ACA upon its inception, nullifying any bargaining on drug prices. Oh, what's that? You're totally ignorant beyond the Hannity talking points?

Our health plan is changing because of ACA. We are losing benefits so as not to have to pay Cadillac penalties. In fact there is lots of talk about bringing basic health care coverage in house. Having company docs that employees can see for no cost isn't great for employee choice.

88 wrote:what the public wanted them to do, which was repeal Obamacare. End Stop.

Fool. There's clearly public demand to keep Obamacare. These shitbags didn't want to put their political careers on the line by taking away health care from terminally ill people. Sorry you keep missing this point.

The Dems own Obamacare. They shoved it down America's throat.

Yeah, Obamacare took 13 months to create from start to finish. On the other hand, the GOP started the AHCA and shitcanned it after a week. Couldn't even get it to a vote WITH TOTAL DOMINATION OF CONGRESS AND THE WHITE HOUSE. So who shoved what down America's throat? Get new talking points, tard.

Trump truly unmasked GOP lawmakers as frauds as well as himself. He fucking CAMPAIGNED on repealing and replacing ObamaCare and these fucking losers couldn't even get their shit together to put their money where their mouths are. Ryan stood up to Trump's demand for a vote and told this piece of shit he wouldn't bring the bill to the floor. Trump is a disgusting piece of human excrement and a fucking fraud and grifter. BUT BUT BUT...HER EMAILS!

Even worse than the GOP's performance yesterday is your pathetic excuse making for them. Pull your head out of your rear, you partisan hack.

Oh yeah: Fuck Trump and fuck everyone who voted for him.

The American people wanted ACA repealed w/ no replacement? 63 million v. 60 million says what?
And my only disappointment in seeing AHCA go down in flames was not being able to see so many Trump voters lose their insurance.

A system that is controlled by government isn't capable of providing lower costs, but a system that's based on corporate profit will? How stupid are you? (that's a rhetorical question)

Diego,

Is there any reason why Washington can't just do a single payer system for their residents? You fukks want to point to tiny little Northern Euro countries' single payer systems as role models. So why don't you do it yourself. VT actually tried to put something together, but just couldn't make the numbers work. Your state is larger and richer, certainly larger than some of these euro countries. So, how's about you show us how it's done?

smackaholic wrote:Diego,

Is there any reason why Washington can't just do a single payer system for their residents? You fukks want to point to tiny little Northern Euro countries' single payer systems as role models. So why don't you do it yourself. VT actually tried to put something together, but just couldn't make the numbers work. Your state is larger and richer, certainly larger than some of these euro countries. So, how's about you show us how it's done?

If you took all the Blue states and they all set up their own exchange, that would be epic.

BSmack wrote:
If you took all the Blue states and they all set up their own exchange, that would be epic.

Great, go do it. Nothing is stopping you. Never mind it won't work without Federal $ from taxpayers.

Left Seater wrote:

BSmack wrote:
If you took all the Blue states and they all set up their own exchange, that would be epic.

Great, go do it. Nothing is stopping you. Never mind it won't work without Federal $ from taxpayers.

There is one thing that would make it work, the ability to negotiate rates and drug prices as a bloc.

Yes sure that's why the rest of the industrialized world is able to provide the same outcomes or better but using a system similar to what I described.

LTS TRN 2 wrote:...tell us a bit about the machinations of Big Pharma as it put the major headlock on ACA upon its inception, nullifying any bargaining on drug prices.

Machinations like the huge investment is R & D it takes to bring new, life saving prescription drugs to market? Billions of $$$ invested, yet less than 25% of that investment is ever returned on an FDA approval that can take 10 years.

You can still bargain with your pharmacy, btw. Especially after the patent runs its course and generic copycats become available.

Americans want high quality health care. They want universal coverage. And they want it to be cheap or preferably free. The problem is they can only have two out of three, maybe. Very possibly only one of the three.

BSmack wrote:

Left Seater wrote:

BSmack wrote:
If you took all the Blue states and they all set up their own exchange, that would be epic.

Great, go do it. Nothing is stopping you. Never mind it won't work without Federal $ from taxpayers.

There is one thing that would make it work, the ability to negotiate rates and drug prices as a bloc.

California, by itself, is 35 million people. How big of a fukking "bloc" do you need? This is the beauty of federalism. Individual states are free to try this shit on their own. They can act individually or in groups to negotiate. C'mon, smartypants, show us backwards ass alt-neocon-knuckledraggers how it's done.

If Paul Ryan had any fukking brains or gonads, he would beat the dems over the head with this idea, rather than trying to show how the reps can do big gov. healfcare better and more "conservative" than the dems can. Fortunately there was a large enough group of reps that do have testicles to shoot this abortion down. If the dems had the slightest bit of a clue, they would have gone into bi-partisan mode and helped the Ryan crowd pass that abortion so they could share the blame with them as it goes down in flames. But they are run by a woman who's stupidity is quickly morphing into senility. I'll bet slick willy is shaking his head right about now. He may have been a corrupt, POS, but he wasn't a fukking idiot.

88 wrote:

BSmack wrote:Yes sure that's why the rest of the industrialized world is able to provide the same outcomes or better but using a system similar to what I described.

They don't have as good of outcomes, otherwise rich foreigners wouldn't come here for treatment. Second, their economies are not important, and their courts are shit. So, like we do for Canada, American taxpayers subsidize their costs. You think Canada has low drug prices because they are good negotiators? If so, I've got a bridge for sale.

Bingo.

Other countries, not subject to US patent law, can tell our drug companies, this is what we'll pay? Don't like it? We'll just produce counterfeits. Big pharma says fuggit, not worth the hassle and sells to them at cost. And when I say cost, I mean production cost which does not have to factor in the R&D side. The problem is, the R&D side is still there. It is run by a bunch of dudes in white coats with lots of letters after their names. They expect to be paid.

Rooster wrote:Americans want high quality health care. They want universal coverage. And they want it to be cheap or preferably free. The problem is they can only have two out of three, maybe. Very possibly only one of the three.

They sure as hell can't have 2 of 3. high quality and cheap ain't happening. "free" only exists in the minds fukking idiots. Using the term "free" when discussing anything government offers, should disqualify anyone from being elected to anything, because it is proof they are either idiots or liars. Trouble is, we are getting close to having a voting majority that fit into that group.

BSmack wrote:

Left Seater wrote:

BSmack wrote:
If you took all the Blue states and they all set up their own exchange, that would be epic.

Great, go do it. Nothing is stopping you. Never mind it won't work without Federal $ from taxpayers.

There is one thing that would make it work, the ability to negotiate rates and drug prices as a bloc.

What prevents them from doing that? They can negotiate rates and drug prices all they want. Insurance companies do that all day.

Or did you mean the ability to dictate pricing and force Doctors, hospitals and pharma to accept dictated pricing?

1. A lot of that R&D comes from publicly funded research.

2. Drug companies should be free to price their products however they want. Consumers should be free to buy them from Canada if they want.

88 wrote:

Mikey wrote:1. A lot of that R&D comes from publicly funded research.

2. Drug companies should be free to price their products however they want. Consumers should be free to buy them from Canada if they want.

1. The government is entitled to a license from government sponsored research, and gets to set the terms now. Not an issue. http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/JOM/ma ... -9004.html

2. Should Drug companies be permitted to enforce the patents they own against those who use, sell and import drugs in the United States that were acquired in Canada? https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/35/271

Why do you hate our laws?

You obviously hate ACA. I guess only the laws YOU don't like should be up for discussion?

If company A makes a product for sale at a certain price in the US, and the same company A sells the same product for a different price in Canada, or any other country, then American consumers should be able to purchase that product wherever they want for their own use. I don't know shit about patent law but that should not be an infringement.

Mikey wrote:I don't know shit about patent law...

It's patently obvious that you don't shit about lots of things you spout off about.

That's never been an impediment and now is no different.

War Wagon wrote:

Mikey wrote:I don't know shit about patent law...

It's patently obvious that you don't shit about lots of things you spout off about.

That's never been an impediment and now is no different.

I thought I felt something biting my ankle. How does it taste today?

88 wrote: They don't have as good of outcomes, otherwise rich foreigners wouldn't come here for treatment.

The average American hospital must resemble a James Bond film, Ernst Stavro Blofeld in for Botox and radiology. That seems at odds with a national healthcare system.

88 wrote:

Mikey wrote:If company A makes a product for sale at a certain price in the US, and the same company A sells the same product for a different price in Canada, or any other country, then American consumers should be able to purchase that product wherever they want for their own use. I don't know shit about patent law but that should not be an infringement.

You should have stopped at "I don't know shit."

At least I admitted it.

You, however, apparently know as little as I do about the subject, or possibly even less.
Your entire take is basically a load of misinformed crap pulled straight out of your ass. Seems to have given Wags a little bit of hard-on though, so you have that going for you.

The population of Canada is less than the population of California. Drug companies sell drugs to Canada at reduced cost because the market is small and because Canada would permit infringers to come there from other countries if the drug companies did not give them drugs priced low (due to subsidies paid by American consumers). If drug companies lost their US pricing structure due to sales made to Canada and reimported into the US, they would stop selling drugs to Canada. Right?

Drug companies sell drugs in Canada at a reduced cost because the price is negotiated between the seller (drug company) and the buyer (the national health system in Canada). The price is not dictated by the Canadian government, and the drug companies are free not to sell their products there at the negotiated price. You can be sure they wouldn't be selling anything there at a loss. The buyer has a certain amount of clout in this negotiation due to the fact that they represent a large number of consumers. Consumers in small markets generally pay a higher price for products than consumers in larger markets, so your logic is completely the reverse of general economic principal. The difference here is that Congress has, in their wisdom, prohibited the largest purchaser of of pharmaceuticals in this country from negotiating prices, giving the drug companies pretty much free rein to charge whatever the fuck they want.

Additionally, you can be sure that the American drug companies, if they have a patent for a product in the US, have also taken out patent protection in Canada. Canada can't just "permit infringers to come there from other countries." Tell me you knew this. And it's not patent law that prohibits re-importation of drugs manufactured in the US or outside the US by American companies. This point of law apparently is still not completely decided. Try googling "exhaustion doctrine" - you're an attorney why didn't you know this? Re-importation is prohibited under the Food, Drug and Cosmetic Act, administered by the FDA, based on safety and efficacy issues. Another bullshit sellout by Congress to big pharma. Why would a product, made in the US, sold in Canada, and then re-imported to the US be any less safe or effective than if it was sold in the US in the first place?

Daily Kos?



Sorry, you need to talk to my wife. I don't go in for fake news and conspiracy theories.

And it's not that I don't believe anything you ever say. I just think we have some fundamental differences of opinion.