T1B

Anyone on here care for it?

I tortured my parents with the Dave Clark Five. One day, Dad had enough - they grew up with that shit and hated it with a passion. So.. I got a two record set for Christmas, Jo Jones, Philly Joe Jones, Art Blakey and Max Roach.
After I put on the record, I knew I had to re-assess some stuff. Hard bop, Be bop. Any Jazz fans on the board?

The Fast Show:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TebUMhJAKSM

Cannonball Adderly - “This Here”

Check it out


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I am well aware of Mr. Adderley. You are officially a hep cat

I enjoy listening to things like Brubeck, MJQ, etc. and was big into jazz in college. I had the LP from the Newport Jazz Festival that had this classic Paul Gonsalves sax solo on it. It's probably on You-Tube.

50-60s Jazz is, IMO, the high water mark of American music. Actually, make it international music as those dudes were probably even bigger with Europeans than they were with Americans.

And Papa Jo Jones is the absolute king of drumming without drum sticks. I suspect that a young John Bonham might have watch a clip or two of him and Joe Morello.

Most musical drummer, evah, with Joe Morello a close second.

And that fucking press roll! He makes it look so g0d damn easy.

Another take on Caravan by a pretty fair drummer.



Buddy doesn't have Jo's musicality, but he is a fukking force of nature. Neil Peart watches a Buddy fill and cries because he'll never come close. Nobody drives a big band like Buddy.

Something newer.


I may have a new favorite drummer. Holy fukk, he is good.

He is the total package. Speed, groove and damn, those fills. Might be better than Buddy's.

These fukking dudes changes is tempo is just nuts.

This doesn't concern you, tubby. They're talking about jazz, not jizz.

smackaholic wrote:
...package...

A balck guys package? That's more of a Moving Sale sort of thing, isn't it?

Shlomart Ben Yisrael wrote:

smackaholic wrote:
...package...

A balck guys package? That's more of a Moving Sale sort of thing, isn't it?

No it's more of an Mvspedokkkal type of thing. Nice try though, for an idiot.

Sticks Downey was the best drummer ever.

Papa Willie wrote:

smackaholic wrote:Another take on Caravan by a pretty fair drummer.



Buddy doesn't have Jo's musicality, but he is a fukking force of nature. Neil Peart watches a Buddy fill and cries because he'll never come close. Nobody drives a big band like Buddy.

And did it all in a super-duper restrictive suit & tie.

And not nearly enough drums.

Yeah, but there was this old guy one time...

Probably the greatest drummer of the "fusion" era, though this group isn't exactly fusion.

Carson wrote:Yeah, but there was this old guy one time...

Gene had lost a bit off his fastball by then, not that he ever had Buddy's fastball. He was more musical than Buddy though. Definitely one of, if not the most important drummer of the Big Band era.

Mikey wrote:Probably the greatest drummer of the "fusion" era, though this group isn't exactly fusion.

I guess you could call that fusion. Judging by the loud clothing, it is the right era. I break down those old school jazz videos this way.....

Is it in B&W? Traditional Jazz

Color? Prolly fusion.

BTW, some of the high quality B&W videos done during the 60s are absolutely amazing. Color had been around for decades by then, but whoever it was that decided to do it in B&W film deserves a hearty rack. Some of the best examples were of DBQ. Just wouldn't have been as cool done in color.

There's a helluva a lot more than "traditional jazz" and "fusion." Here's the same song, in color, from 1986. This is definitely not "fusion." The album that this was originally on (Maiden Voyage) was originally issued in 1965 and is decidedly "post-bop." Is that traditional jazz?



BTW...Tony Williams was one great drummer as well.

Some more from several of my favorite all-time artists.

Mikey wrote:There's a helluva a lot more than "traditional jazz" and "fusion." Here's the same song, in color, from 1986. This is definitely not "fusion." The album that this was originally on (Maiden Voyage) was originally issued in 1965 and is decidedly "post-bop." Is that traditional jazz?



BTW...Tony Williams was one great drummer as well.

Tony Williams was great.

As for the various species of Jazz, yeah, I guess my statement does imply 2 types when there are a lot more and I suppose “traditional” really isn’t one as it was constantly morphing.

By traditional, I guess I mean big band and the various smaller groups led by people like Brubeck or Ellington.

Sounds like you know a fair bit about jazz. What separates the various types of bop? Gotta be a half dozen of them.


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Was just listening to that first HH clip. I think that’s some sort of bop. Takes a hell of a lot of talent to play, but it’s a little busy for my taste. Seems like during that period, some of them got into a contest of how many notes they could stuff into a bar of music. Prefer the other Hancock clip doing Cantelope.


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Always amusing when suckaholic starts expounding authoritatively on a subject he knows very little about.

Just listened to the rest of that really busy sounding piece by HH and his band. I wonder how many million notes are played in that tune. Holy shit that is one serious collection of talented mofos on that stage. Even if whatever-bop isn’t your cup of tea, you have to appreciate the other worldly level of musical talent.


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Goober McTuber wrote:Always amusing when suckaholic starts expounding authoritatively on a subject he knows very little about.

At least when I do and someone taps me on the shoulder and says, uhhh, that’s really not right, I can occasionally concede the point.

Too bad let’s turd can’t do the same involving aircraft, structural engineering, metallurgy and damn near everything else.


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smackaholic wrote:

Goober McTuber wrote:Always amusing when suckaholic starts expounding authoritatively on a subject he knows very little about.

At least when I do and someone taps me on the shoulder and says, uhhh, that’s really not right, I can occasionally concede the point.

Too bad let’s turd can’t do the same involving aircraft, structural engineering, metallurgy and damn near everything else.


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So you're a better person than LTS. Talk about setting the bar low.

So fukkin’ low that even B.B. would have to display some limbo skills to get under it.


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Roach wrote:I used to listen to this a lot. When I grow up I want to be like . . . Joe Zawinul !



I think the drummexxxx percussionist in the blue Hawaiian shirt is really 'Spray.

Zawinul was one of the greatest jazz talents of all time. Keyboards and composing. First with Cannonball Adderley and Miles. Then with Weather Report. I discovered Weather Report in 1974 when they released "Mysterious Traveler." That was my introduction to fusion along with Herbie Hancock in his Headhunters period, and Chick Corea & RTF. At that point Weather Report became a permanent part of my musical rotation.

Speaking of Zawinul as a composer,

This was a big hit for Cannonball. Unfortunately this is the only video I can find where Zawinul is actually playing it.




Fast forward a dozen years or so...



Better known version..

smackaholic wrote:Just listened to the rest of that really busy sounding piece by HH and his band. I wonder how many million notes are played in that tune. Holy shit that is one serious collection of talented mofos on that stage. Even if whatever-bop isn’t your cup of tea, you have to appreciate the other worldly level of musical talent.


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If you want to hear a lot of notes, check out Coltrane.

My first experience with jazz was when my parents took me to see Louis Armstrong at Stanford Frost Amphitheater when I was 10 years old. All I really remember was that he sang "Hello Dolly" and he always had a white hand kerchief in his hand. I also got to see Benny Goodman play with the San Francisco Pops Orchestra in a benefit concert at the same venue a few years later. Goodman's daughter was a classmate of my mom's at Stanford in the 50s.

I suppose the first jazz I really listened to was BS&T, which was more like jazz influenced Rock but damn good stuff. I really first got turned on to straight ahead jazz with the Crusaders' "Put it Where You Want It" in 1972. You might call it jazz/R&B or the beginning of funk but it was great stuff and I bought most of their subsequent albums over the next decade or so.



This was a great fucking band. Check out the young Larry Carlton on guitar.

It wasn't too long after the Crusaders that I discovered the thing called "fusion" which really encompassed a lot of different stuff. First, for me, it was Weather Report

This wasn't their first album, but the first one I bought.

This was some seriously different stuff. Sort of fusion/jazz/world music.



Their lineup changed a lot over the years but the nucleus of Zawinul and Wayne Shorter was always there. One of the greatest bass players of all time, Jaco Pastorius, was with the band for quite a while as well.

I was often amazed that they could actually pull some of this stuff off live.




Also during that time, Chick Corea and Return to Forever, in one of their several incarnations. Started out as a sort of latin band with Flora Purim singing, her husband Airto Moreira on drums, but morphed into a more electronic version with Al DiMeola, Stanley Clark and Lenny White




One of the great albums of that period was Spectrum by Billy Cobham
Also, Tommy Bolin on guitar, Leland Sklar on bass, Jan Hammer on keyboards and Joe Farrell on Sax.
Cobham was also the drummer for Mahavishnu Orchestra





Jeff Beck does a great version of Stratus on Live at Ronny Scotts, with Vinnie Colaiuta on drums.

Can't find any videos with Tommy Bolin and Cobham playing together.

I was also into the electro-funk version of Herbie Hancock and Headhunters.
This is a 1986 version of a song that came out in the mid-70s

There's one thing most of those guys had in common....

Joe Zawinul
Wayne Shorter
Billy Cobham
Chick Corea
John McLaughlin
Herbie Hancock
Tony Williams

and a lot of others before and after.

They all played in Miles's band at some time.
More on that later.

Here's Herbie at age 77, BTW...

Mikey wrote:And not nearly enough drums.

When I was a kid, my grandfather bought me a slingerland kit. Not really all that different from what Buddy used. I would fumble along on that thing while listening to Rush. I was absolutely certain that I could have matched Neil, note for note, were it not for that shitty 4 piece kit. Why, I was just a double bass and a dozen toms, give or take, from being the next rock g0d.

How funny would it have been to have Buddy watch that, then say move over kid, you got plenty of drums, then make Neil and me, mostly me, look really bad.

No shit.

Too bad we can't keep him on the topic of music, and maybe an occasional food post.

Mikey wrote: One of the great albums of that period was Spectrum by Billy Cobham
Also, Tommy Bolin on guitar, Leland Sklar on bass, Jan Hammer on keyboards and Joe Farrell on Sax.
Cobham was also the drummer for Mahavishnu Orchestra

I got to see Billy Cobham play with Jack Bruce & Friends at a little place in Phoenix during the early '80s. Clem Clempson and David Sancious rounded out the band. Pretty tight group of musicians. Cobham looked like he coulda played on the offensive line in the NFL.

Steve Gadd covering Take the A Train, with Moving Fail on piano.

https://youtu.be/FVdFVtoGl98

That wretched little cripple has more musical talent in his morning dump than MS has on his best day. And Steve Gadd is the motherfukking man!!!!! Some people get into the groove. Steve is in the Marianas Trench.

For all those curious, Denis Payton of the DC5 was a massive Satchmo fan. RIP Denis.