Teacher Pay...

[Left Seater]

Teacher pay has gotten a lot of run in the press the last few months. Just wondering how y'all feel about teacher pay.

My mom was a teacher for 15 years. She was in risk mitigation for a financial services firm up until the time I was about to enter elementary school. At that time she and my dad decided that she would teach while I was in school so her schedule and mine would mirror each other. She would have the summers off and all the same school holidays. When my Dad was killed, this turned out to be a very wise decision. She continued to teach until my brother started his Senior year of HS. When I was in the 7th grade she moved to a private school in our town and got a significant increase in pay. As soon as my brother was in school as a Senior she went back to corporate America working in strategic planning for a large oil and gas company. Again her salary went up, but her teaching years got her nothing when negotiating her salary.

She told me this weekend that comparing annual salaries for teachers to other professions is apples and oranges. Teachers don't work a full year and also don't work a full day. For example the Texas school year requires having 180 days of instruction. The average school day is 7 hours. However, one of those hours is lunch. On top of that teachers in Texas are required to have 450 minutes of planning time every two weeks. This planning time has to happen within the the school day and not before or after the student's day ends. So when you take this all into account teachers work significantly less than many other professionals do.

Looking at the numbers:

180 days of instruction
+20 days of in-service or other required days without students
200 total days of work in a school year

7 hour instructional day
+ 1 hour additional time either before or after instructional day
- 1 hour lunch
- .75 hours for planning
6.25 hour work day

200 work days
x 6.25 hours per day
1250 hours worked in a year

1250 teacher work hours in a year
/ 2080 traditional hours in a work year
60% of hours worked compared to other professionals

So now take teacher pay and put that up against their 60% of hours worked in a year. Teacher pay starts to look pretty good when viewed thru that lens. And yes, teachers do spend time at night grading papers, etc. But other professionals also spend time out of the office doing things for their jobs that are not compensated, so that argument is pretty weak.

Now we all know that a good teacher is awesome. Good teachers can really turn a kids life in a positive direction. I have no clue how to put a salary number to that. At the same time we all have had mediocre to poor teachers who should have been fired immediately. However, Unions help them keep their jobs. So, teacher pay at least in Texas is north of $22 per hour for a teacher with zero teaching experience. Hardly food stamps territory that we are led to believe.

There is also a huge disparity between different school districts. The school district I currently live in pays their teachers well above the minimum laid out by the State and the teacher's union. They have less than 2% of the teaching staff who have less than 2 years of experience. Since they pay more they are able to cherry pick top teachers. On the flip side, San Antonio ISD has some of the most economically depressed areas of the city. They have a hard time keeping teachers. As soon as they can teachers are leaving this district which pays the minimum, has the most discipline problems, and little help from parents. But that goes well beyond just teacher pay into a much larger education and funding issues.

So are teachers compensated fairly or not?

[Screw_Michigan]

7 hour instructional day
+ 1 hour additional time either before or after instructional day
- 1 hour lunch
- .75 hours for planning
6.25 hour work day

Wow, you really think teachers only work 6.25 hours per day? When do you think they grade papers?

How did you get into Rice again?

[Goober McTuber]

And the planning time doesn't count as work. What a stupid fucking thread.

[Screw_Michigan]

And the planning time doesn't count as work. What a stupid fucking thread.

I briefly dated a teacher about 11 years ago. She was also the swim coach at the local high school. During the week she'd get up at 5 for swim practice at 6 and her day often woudn't end until 8 or 9 when she finished grading papers, prep, etc. That is a long fucking day.

Why do you think Left Shitter hates teachers? Is it that he hates public sector unions? Or does he simply hate education?

[Goober McTuber]

And the planning time doesn't count as work. What a stupid fucking thread.

I briefly dated a teacher about 11 years ago. She was also the swim coach at the local high school. During the week she'd get up at 5 for swim practice at 6 and her day often woudn't end until 8 or 9 when she finished grading papers, prep, etc. That is a long fucking day.

Why do you think Left Shitter hates teachers? Is it that he hates public sector unions? Or does he simply hate education?

Probably both. If teaching is such a gravy job, why do so many leave the profession within their first 5 years?

[Diego in Seattle]

How many teachers have to buy supplies for their classes....which now, thanks to the GOP, is no longer tax deductible (but corporate jets are).

[Softball Bat]

Cliff Notes answer: Excellent teachers deserve a lot more than what they make. Poor teachers deserve a lot less than what they make.









Jeff Bliss.

When stoners attack!

I loved the hand gestures and rhythmic brow-beating he gave this garbage teacher.

Funnier every time I watch it.

RACK!

:)

[Wolfman]

Retired teacher with 32 years of credited service chimes in. When I began teaching my salary was just above the amount to make me eligible for public assistance. Summers meant "forced unemployment" and I held a variety of part time summer jobs to help out raising a growing family that eventually was me, Mrs.O, and our four kids. The longer I taught, the more I made. At the end when teacher's salaries were based on % raises and not just "step" raises I got up to just over $50K a year. That included my last 25 years where I taught summer school. When I turned 55, I was offered early retirement with a Tier One Pension--the Cadillac pension for NY teachers. I said, "where do I sign." I did not take a maximum pension, but opted for the Pop-Up plan, where if I die before Mrs.O she still gets my pension, and if she checks out before me, I pop-up to the maximum. That pension gave us last year around $32K and with SSI adding more, we are at about what I was making teaching in 1994. So far no real problems living on a "fixed" income. All in all, comfortable living for what I was doing and in the community where we lived.
Some thoughts: Teachers in poor performing schools should be paid more, sort of like hazardous duty pay. Yes there are some bad apples in the profession, like any other. Yes, they are hard to weed out under current legal restraints. That really should be fixed.

[Killian]

7 hour instructional day
+ 1 hour additional time either before or after instructional day
- 1 hour lunch
- .75 hours for planning
6.25 hour work day

Wow, you really think teachers only work 6.25 hours per day? When do you think they grade papers?

How did you get into Rice again?

You suck at reading, you stupid fucking racist.

To the original question; yes, they are fairly compensated. If money is the main concern when deciding your major, don't choose teaching. Or journalism. And if you want/need to make more money there are weeks and months at a time where you don't have to perform your job and can create extra income.

[Screw_Michigan]

Every state is not Texas, Marcus Allen. How does that Irish cock taste after all these years? How does it feel to be such a low priced whore you cheer for a fairy tale as opposed to the school you actually graduated from?

[Wolfman]

I forgot to add. Teaching was a good choice for raising a family. I knew I'd go to school and never find locks on the doors and a sign saying the school has been moved to Mexico. Job security rules. You just have to learn how to be smart with what you have.

[Killian]

Your first sentence literally makes zero sense. I didn't say that teachers in Texas were fairly compensated, you illiterate homophobe. Teachers, as a profession, are fairly compensated. I may cheer for a fairy tale (your words), but I sleep very well at night knowing I'm not a petty, racist, homophobic asshole who is angry at the world because I graduated from a shitty directional school with a degree in a dying field.

[Screw_Michigan]

Wow, I sleep pretty well at night, despite all those accounts. Must be because I have a meaningful, successful career and a bright future that doesn't include settling for living in some frozen cold, decaying, third world shithole of a metropolitan area littered with fat, second-rate, castaway chicks. Not bad for a graduate from a shitty directional school with a degree in a dying field.

[Left Seater]

7 hour instructional day
+ 1 hour additional time either before or after instructional day
- 1 hour lunch
- .75 hours for planning
6.25 hour work day

Wow, you really think teachers only work 6.25 hours per day? When do you think they grade papers?

How did you get into Rice again?

And yes, teachers do spend time at night grading papers, etc. But other professionals also spend time out of the office doing things for their jobs that are not compensated, so that argument is pretty weak.

How is it you function in your job, with your poor reading comprehension? Oh, that's right facts don't really matter in your world.

And the planning time doesn't count as work. What a stupid fucking thread.

In comparison to other "professional" positions, having a 45 minute block of time a day to "plan" is unique. Most other professional positions don't have this set aside time.

If teaching is such a gravy job, why do so many leave the profession within their first 5 years?

Lot's of reasons. Some are due to getting an Mrs. title. Some are due to having kids. Others are hired away to work in corporate America. My wife for example hires HS math teachers for certain positions when they have 3-4 years of experience. They are shocked at the coin they can make in corporate America. Others realize that they want no part of dealing with helicopter parents or confrontational parents. Others want no part of the discipline problems that they have to deal with in the schools.

Like I said I have no idea how to properly compensate a great teacher. A great teacher makes all of our lives better. Sounds like Wolfman was one of those who cared and volunteered to work summer school as a result. But as a whole, teachers seem to be compensated appropriately for the time they work. At the least the discussion should be based on their reduced work hours per year.

[Killian]

Wow, I sleep pretty well at night, despite all those accounts. Must be because I have a meaningful, successful career and a bright future that doesn't include settling for living in some frozen cold, decaying, third world shithole of a metropolitan area littered with fat, second-rate, castaway chicks. Not bad for a graduate from a shitty directional school with a degree in a dying field.

No, still pretty bad. After all, you're still you and I'm still me. I win.

You see, when you're an adult and actually have success, you don't give a flying fuck about "chicks". I had plenty, I have one. But keep rolling out your weak ass "game" trying to score "chicks" by telling them about some bullshit meaningful career.

When you're trying to pick up these "chicks", do you have a hard time keeping the lies straight? Or do you only hit on liberal "chicks" so you can virtue signal together and just not give a fuck about facts?

I guess I don't know what I'm going to do living in a "third world shithole of a metropolitan area". Maybe I'll see my home continue to skyrocket in value because Oakland County is in the top 20 among the nations's 109 largest counties when it comes to affluence.

I'm racking my brain to try and figure out what you could possibly be doing for a career that would make you think you have a bright future when all you do is clack away in here and look like one of the dumbest people who has ever punched submit on these boards. Congrats to you, I guess.

[Mikey]

And yes, teachers do spend time at night grading papers, etc. But other professionals also spend time out of the office doing things for their jobs that are not compensated, so that argument is pretty weak.

Really? When I go home after work I pretty much leave my job behind, and I like to do weekend things on weekends. I guess I'm shortchanging my employer by having what I like to call a "life."

And the planning time doesn't count as work. What a stupid fucking thread.

In comparison to other "professional" positions, having a 45 minute block of time a day to "plan" is unique. Most other professional positions don't have this set aside time.

I work in a professional position (no quotes here...it really is a professional position). I'm not expected to come in early or stay late to plan my work. Planning your work is part of your work.


You seem to have a very distorted view of what employment means.

[Goober McTuber]

And the planning time doesn't count as work. What a stupid fucking thread.

In comparison to other "professional" positions, having a 45 minute block of time a day to "plan" is unique. Most other professional positions don't have this set aside time.

But according to your math, that doesn't qualify as work. What total bullshit. I'm a professional and I'm expected to take whatever time I need for planning.

If teaching is such a gravy job, why do so many leave the profession within their first 5 years?

Lot's of reasons. Some are due to getting an Mrs. title. Some are due to having kids. Others are hired away to work in corporate America. My wife for example hires HS math teachers for certain positions when they have 3-4 years of experience. They are shocked at the coin they can make in corporate America.

By that logic they are certainly not overpaid. If the salary is not good enough to keep them in their jobs, they have every right to ask fopr more money.

And yes, teachers do spend time at night grading papers, etc. But other professionals also spend time out of the office doing things for their jobs that are not compensated, so that argument is pretty weak.

Not compensated? What about "They are shocked at the coin they can make in corporate America"? I have a salaried position as a developer. When necessary, I work extra hours on nights and weekends. (I'm not a slacker like Mikey.) That's why I'm paid a decent salary. You know what else? If I've got some errands to run, I can cut out a couple hours early and not burn any vacation time. I doubt most teachers could do that.

[Killian]

You know what else? If I've got some errands to run, I can cut out a couple hours early and not burn any vacation time. I doubt most teachers could do that.

Yeah, they have to save their errands for the 3 months in a row they get off, Christmas break, mid winter break, spring break, or any of the numerous days they get off.

[Mikey]

When necessary, I work extra hours on nights and weekends. (I'm not a slacker like Mikey.)

You just need to get a "life."

[Rooster]

My mom was a teacher for decades as well and one you could count on to teach your children what you expect from a traditional primary school education: reading fundamentals based on phonics, not sight reading, mathematics that emphasized memorization of basic mathematical functions like times tables, writing which included grammar, good penmanship, and spelling. She was unafraid of failing her students and refusing to pass them on to the next grade teacher. She had little use for school administrators who soaked up funds promised to the classrooms and used them for vanity projects like computers in libraries or wider food choice selections in the cafeteria. She had disdain for teachers unions who she believed have the agenda of increasing their own power instead of viewing the student’s education as the goal.

Her classes were silent as she did not brook unnecessary talking, note passing, or unscheduled bathroom breaks. The students finished their work or they did not enjoy a full recess.

She was a stern disciplinarian who gave affection and loving attention to a child who needed extra help with their schoolwork or for a respite from a rocky home life. She demanded more of all of her students because she understood human nature and the innate inner pull of a child’s natural inclination to laziness and shortcuts.

She earned every penny of her salary.

Contrast that to twenty years ago when I moved to California where the schools shut down because funding was not there for paper, pencils, and glue. No mention of parents going to the five-and-dime and purchasing those items for their kids on their own, nor of any teachers manning up and holding class and foregoing those items using the Marines’ motto of “adapt and overcome.” Nope. California just kept those kids home for two weeks. The unions wouldn’t allow teachers to do what they were paid to do and the parents were satisfied to keep their kids at home.

What a mess our public education system has become from kindergarten to graduate school.

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

But he chose a different path (well, he did find a teacher he intends to marry).

Wait...

...did your son marry a dude?
...because that's the way it comes across. I'm not judging.

[Derron]

Last time I was on a school budget committee the all in salary and benefits for a teacher in our district was $ 109,000 in 2013. I imagine that is around $ 125,000 now. Of course the district has to pay about 2 to 3 million MORE every year to keep the Ponzi PERS retirement system from default.

You have to compare these Cadillac health plans and the killer retirement. The retirement they do not put one fucking dime into, that is all a freebee from the public. The health care is awesome. If you look at cash compensation it is average wages, with some fucking out of the world benefits. If the teachers don't like it, convert your fucking liberal arts degree in obscure studies to something you can actually make money at.

Most of these teachers think they are some kind of proclaimed messiah that is going to save the world, until they find out otherwise then they ride it out for a full ride retirement, get 4 DUI's and put on 150 pounds.

[Derron]

Every state is not Texas, Marcus Allen. How does that Irish cock taste after all these years? How does it feel to be such a low priced whore you cheer for a fairy tale as opposed to the school you actually graduated from?

There you go with more of those homosexual references you are so quick to comment on.

[Joe in PB]

The system is broken. The USA continues to fall down the world education rankings, and neither party at the State or Federal level seems to care.

It's obvious major changes need to be made.


Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

[Mikey]

http://www.bbc.com/news/education-38212070

Out of 70 countries, the US is 25th in science, 24th in reading & 40th in math.

Maybe the teachers should start teaching a little better before crying about raises.

We need to teach creation science and "abstinence only" sex ed. That should get us back on top.

[Softball Bat]

We encouraged our oldest son to consider a teaching career.

Good idea.
Teachers have ample opportunity to get freaky with impressionable youth.

- .net

[Dinsdale]

disinterested parents

You should have your wife teach you the difference between "disinterested" and "uninterested."

"Disinterested" is a horribly misused word.

[Dinsdale]

AAARRRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!

One of those words that was misused so badly, that the dictionary folks threw their hands up and just gave up. It used to be that "disinterested" meant having no financial interest in something, which differentiated it from "uninterested," meaning "don't give a shit."

Hell, I think "amuck" is in the dictionary because it was butchered so badly for so long.

Is nothing sacred?

[Mikey]

Is nothing sacred?

Jerry Garcia

[Dinsdale]

Let my inspiration flow

[Mikey]

and The Whistle is Screaming

[BSmack]

[L45B]

I find this topic quite the ironic one given education in this country is all but a socialized industry. Equally ironic is when I see the profile of some social studies teacher wearing a Bernie Sanders t-shirt holding up a sign that reads "We Deserve Higher Pay!"

Hey teachers, you knew what you signed up for. What ever happened to To Each According to Her Need, From Each According to Her Ability? Why are you being so greedy? According to the agreed upon system, the only teachers and schools that deserve higher pay are the ones that are failing. Remember?

Until the system is tilted back to a point in which parents are transacting educational decisions directly on behalf of their kids, there is no mechanism that puts a higher value on the best teachers.

[Joe in PB]

Children are the future, yet many citizens seem not to care. The only thing they care about is themselves. Explaining why the US is about to drop out of the top 50 countries around the world in math & science, and the ignorance in congress and state legislatures about the subject.

It also explains why many of these same citizens believe locking up their firearms so they aren't stolen, or accessed by their children doesn't apply to them.

[Laxplayer]

Been teaching for 30 years. The pay in Cali aint that bad. Cost of living, taxes etc....are a bitch but yep, that fat ass retirement is going to be sweet. I'll probably collect 100% of my salary when I retire with almost 40 years in the system. Also have a 403B I've been paying into for the last 20+ years, so there's a nice chunk of change...couple hundred K..and lets not forget my defined benefits package that they give me which includes all my years of coaching and extra stuff I've done which I can take over 3 years, 5 years or 10 years.....which will be around 150-175K. Thank you........:). Oh and my schedule on a daily basis....teach 4 classes. Done at noon. Lunch break, prep period, coach golf team......play free golf......
Yep, I'm good with it.......

[Imus]

Been teaching for 30 years.

What, "teaching" shop, auto mechanics, and phys-ed to the retards? Prolly not English.


Nice savings/retirement package, hope you collect some before the defaults start.

When the revolution comes you will be on the pitch fork.

[Laxplayer]

Who gives a shit what I teach. My retirement is GOLDEN. But I knew what I was getting into....... :grin:

[Mikey]

Who gives a shit what I teach. My retirement is GOLDEN. But I knew what I was getting into....... :grin:

[Slap]

It would be good if Laxplayer was run over by a cement truck on his first day of retirement.

[Left Seater]

Far more HS’s should be teaching shop and auto mechanics, etc. For some reason most are stuck on this notion that every student can and/or wants to learn on a college preparatory path.

For non college bound students start teaching them a skill or give them an overview of multiple trades.