This conservative would take Obama back in a nanosecond

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Sat Jul 21, 2018 11:22 pm

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/glo ... b9f86fee26

By Max Boot

How I miss Barack Obama.

And I say that as someone who worked to defeat him: I was a foreign policy adviser to John McCain in 2008 and to Mitt Romney in 2012. I criticized Obama’s “lead from behind” foreign policy that resulted in a premature pullout from Iraq and a failure to stop the slaughter in Syria. I thought he was too weak on Iran and too tough on Israel. I feared that Obamacare would be too costly. I fumed that he was too professorial and too indecisive. I was left cold by his arrogance and his cult of personality.

Now I would take Obama back in a nanosecond. His presidency appears to be a lost golden age when reason and morality reigned. All of his faults, real as they were, fade into insignificance compared with the crippling defects of his successor. And his strengths — seriousness, dignity, intellect, probity, dedication to ideals larger than self — shine all the more clearly in retrospect.

Those thoughts are prompted by watching Obama’s speech in South Africa on the 100th anniversary of Nelson Mandela’s birth. I was moved nearly to tears by his eloquent defense of a liberal world order that President Trump appears bent on destroying.

The first thing that struck me was what was missing: There was no self-praise and no name-calling. Obama has a far better claim than Trump to being a “very stable genius,” but he didn’t call himself one. The sentences were complete and sonorous — and probably written by the speaker himself. (Imagine Trump writing anything longer than a tweet — and even those are full of mistakes.) The tone was sober and high-minded, even if listeners could read between the lines a withering critique of Trump’s policies.

Obama denounced the “politics of fear and resentment,” the spread of “hatred and paranoia and propaganda and conspiracy theories,” and “immigration policies based on race, or ethnicity, or religion.” Gee, wonder who he had in mind? He rightly noted that “we now stand at a crossroads — a moment in time at which two very different visions of humanity’s future compete for the hearts and minds of citizens around the world.” He then rejected the dark vision propagated by Trump and the dictators he so admires.

“I believe in Nelson Mandela’s vision,” Obama said. “I believe in a vision shared by Gandhi and King and Abraham Lincoln. I believe in a vision of equality and justice and freedom and multiracial democracy, built on the premise that all people are created equal, and they’re endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights. And I believe that a world governed by such principles is possible and that it can achieve more peace and more cooperation in pursuit of a common good.” Even though I was thousands of miles away, I felt like cheering those stirring words.

No, I haven’t forgotten the shortcomings of Obama’s administration, but I’ve gained a new perspective on them.

Can you believe that an Obama-era scandal was that the president wore a tan suit or put his feet up on the desk? (Actual Washington Times headline from Sept. 4, 2013: “Obama’s foot on Oval Office desk sends shockwaves around the world.”) Oh, to have those days back again — before we had a president who was involved in indecent relationships with a Russian despot and (allegedly) a porn star.

What was supposedly the worst abuse of power committed by the Obama administration — the IRS investigations of conservative organizations — has been revealed as “fake news”: It turns out that the IRS was also investigating liberal organizations. By contrast, evidence continues to accumulate about Trump scandals, from alleged campaign collusion with Russia to violations of the emoluments clause. Obama may have told a few fibs, like any politician, but he was not a pathological liar.

Conservatives accused Obama of hating America and going on an “apology tour.” Obama never claimed, however, that poor relations with Russia were the fault of “U.S. foolishness and stupidity” rather than Russian wrongdoing. Obama may have been naive in trying to “reset” relations with Moscow, but he did not say that Russian President Vladimir Putin is a “fine” person — and he did not endorse the Russian’s lies over the truths unearthed by the U.S. intelligence community. The Iran nuclear deal was flawed, but it was infinitely stronger than the non-agreement Trump reached with North Korea. Obama even looks like a fiscal conservative compared with Trump, who is ushering in trillion-dollar deficits.

It can be depressing to think about our current predicament under a president whose loyalty to America is suspect but whose racism and xenophobia are undoubted. However, Obama’s speech gave me a glimmer of optimism — and not only because he cited Mandela’s “example of persistence and of hope.” He reminds me that just 18 months ago — can you believe it was so recently? — we had a president with whom I could disagree without ever doubting his fitness to lead. We can have one again.

Derron · Post by **Derron** » Sat Jul 21, 2018 11:33 pm

Fuck that RINO.

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Sat Jul 21, 2018 11:34 pm

Derron wrote:#CultofTrump

Rooster · Post by **Rooster** » Sun Jul 22, 2018 2:09 am

Lol, "...told a few fibs..."
Ummm, like, "if you like your doctor you can keep your doctor"? Telling me a harmless fib is one thing, but telling another that ended up in costing me additional thousands of dollars for less insurance is unforgivable.
No thanks. I'll pass on a third Obama term.

Left Seater · Post by **Left Seater** » Sun Jul 22, 2018 3:36 am

Is Obama in the White House? So who cares what he says or others think of him. Remember your deflection from earlier this week?

Either there is a serious memory issue or you mastered the double standard.

Screw_Michigan · Post by **Screw_Michigan** » Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:59 am

Left Seater wrote:Is Obama in the White House? So who cares what he says or others think of him. Remember your deflection from earlier this week?

Either there is a serious memory issue or you mastered the double standard.

That was me.

Try to get your obsessions in order, friend.

smackaholic · Post by **smackaholic** » Sun Jul 22, 2018 11:59 am

So, turning the middle east into a 5 alarm dumpster fire was tolerable, so long as he smiled and was polite?

Fukk that kinder, gentler republican. Obama was extremely beatable in 12, by someone willing to take the gloves off.

Mitt wasn't that guy.

He stood there and smiled in his nice suit and pretty hair when that fat bitch attacked him during the debates. He had Barry on the ropes and he walked to a neutral corner and waited.

Trump is a loudmouth asshole. As a person, I don't much like him. But he's not afraid to call a spade a spade and when he is attacked personally, he gives it back with interest.

This frustrates scumbag democrats who want their GOP heavybag back. They were NEVER civil. But they sure as hell liked it when the Republicans were "above" responding to their attacks.

Would it be nice to have a "nice" president?

Maybe.

But the world isn't a very nice place. So maybe a loudmouth asshole that tapes up for the game with aluminum foil everyday, just like the Hanson brothers is what we need.

Left Seater · Post by **Left Seater** » Sun Jul 22, 2018 12:52 pm

I know who it was. But the usual suspects chimed in there as well including Mikey with a non take.

So again, Obama isn’t in office and not worth discussing, so why was this posted?

Smackie Chan · Post by **Smackie Chan** » Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:21 pm

Derron wrote:Fuck that RINO.

So every Republican who doesn't blindly lick Trump's grape sac is a RINO. Got it.

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Sun Jul 22, 2018 6:14 pm

Left Seater wrote: so why was this posted?

Why was it posted?
Why does anybody post anything in this sordid clambake?

Think about it, now...think...think...

Oh, yeah. To see what kind of responses I'd get. In this case, particularly from you and the rest of the #CultofTrumpers.

And what did I get?

Pretty much what I expected. An apples to oranges strawman and nothing whatsoever to refute anything in the piece. Plus some incoherent rambling about RINOs and the usual unintelligible gibberish from Smackaholic.

Other than that...crickets

So, congratulations. You passed the test.

Left Seater · Post by **Left Seater** » Sun Jul 22, 2018 6:39 pm

Pot meet kettle much? You helped set the bar for non takes and doubled down on people out of office don’t warrant discussion.

Now you want to move the goalposts?

smackaholic · Post by **smackaholic** » Sun Jul 22, 2018 7:27 pm

Smackie Chan wrote:
Derron wrote:Fuck that RINO.
So every Republican who doesn't blindly lick Trump's grape sac is a RINO. Got it.

I don't know enough about that dude to know if he meets "RINO" qualifications. I think there are plenty of Republicans that I would not characterize as RINO, who loath Trump. I also think there are plenty of us that support him generally, but don't lick his grape sac. There are days he twitters from the hip when I just shake my head. I would have rather had Rand Paul or Ted Cruz, but, we don't have either.

There is one thing that has come from the last few years that I think is good. Trump has shown that someone who is not morally pure can get the Republican nomination. This was not the case in the past. In '12, Herman Cain was runned on unsubstantiated adultery claims. Since then, it has come out that his accuser may have had democrat ties. I find that completely believable as the dems are scared to death of the Republicans fielding a viable balck candidate. Cain would have beaten Barry like a half-balck redheaded step child. Come to think of it, he has 2/3 of that covered.

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Sun Jul 22, 2018 8:50 pm

Left Seater wrote: people out of office don’t warrant discussion.

There's your strawman. Deal with it snowflake.

Left Seater · Post by **Left Seater** » Sun Jul 22, 2018 10:10 pm

Mikey wrote:
Left Seater wrote: people out of office don’t warrant discussion.

There's your strawman. Deal with it snowflake.

Right after you offer a take on Obama’s universal basic income, which he equates to having a job.

Softball Bat · Post by **Softball Bat** » Sun Jul 22, 2018 10:50 pm

Smackie Chan wrote:
Derron wrote:Fuck that RINO.
So every Republican who doesn't blindly lick Trump's grape sac is a RINO. Got it.

Wise republicans distanced themselves from Donald a long time ago.

Nobody should be surprised that Derron is not among the wise.

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Sun Jul 22, 2018 11:39 pm

Left Seater wrote:
Mikey wrote:
Left Seater wrote: people out of office don’t warrant discussion.

There's your strawman. Deal with it snowflake.

Right after you offer a take on Obama’s universal basic income, which he equates to having a job.

Not related to this thread. I'm pretty sure Obama never proposed that as President. But since you're asking, it wouldn't work in the US.

Now, feel free to go ahead and make some excuses for Trump's idiotic behaviour. Try to refute any point that Boot brought up in his opinion piece. I know you're in love with the tax cut but, really, there's a lot more to being President than that.

Shlomart Ben Yisrael · Mon Jul 23, 2018 1:37 am

Do you people even know who the author of this article is?

Max Boot.

Max "Two-Passports" Boot.

Seriously, look him up...all will be revealed.

The Top 10 Most Loathsome Neocon Bugmen
He's entry #6.

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Mon Jul 23, 2018 2:34 am

What's this? I thought you loved the neocons.

I know who Max Boot is.

There was a documentary about his life in a submarine that was nominated for six Academy Awards.
If it wasn't for Gandhi, he probably would have won all six.

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Mon Jul 23, 2018 4:32 am

Papa Willie wrote:“Straw man” = I got the moisturizer kicked completely out of my anus.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Good thing too. Your anus needs all the room it can get.

Sent from my Dell inspriron using stable genius and asparagus

smackaholic · Post by **smackaholic** » Mon Jul 23, 2018 10:06 am

Papa Willie wrote:“Straw man” = I got the moisturizer kicked completely out of my anus.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That sounds like a good time, actually.

Left Seater · Post by **Left Seater** » Mon Jul 23, 2018 12:29 pm

Mikey wrote:I'm pretty sure Obama never proposed that as President. But since you're asking, it wouldn't work in the US.

Now, feel free to go ahead and make some excuses for Trump's idiotic behaviour. Try to refute any point that Boot brought up in his opinion piece. I know you're in love with the tax cut but, really, there's a lot more to being President than that.

So since he didn’t say it when he was President it isn’t worth discussing? Bill Clinton and Trump love that take since it takes all their bimbos off the discussion block.

As far as Strawmen go, see your comment above on defending Trump’s behavior.

He is an idiot as I have said repeatedly.

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Mon Jul 23, 2018 3:01 pm

Left Seater wrote:
Mikey wrote:I'm pretty sure Obama never proposed that as President. But since you're asking, it wouldn't work in the US.

Now, feel free to go ahead and make some excuses for Trump's idiotic behaviour. Try to refute any point that Boot brought up in his opinion piece. I know you're in love with the tax cut but, really, there's a lot more to being President than that.
So since he didn’t say it when he was President it isn’t worth discussing?

So, you bring up a subject that's hardly related to the piece I quoted, which was a comparison of Trump and Obama as President. Then you attribute a position to me that I have never espoused, and challenge me to defend it. Pretty much the definition of a strawman and typical tactic of most of the "conservatives" on this board (PW in particular). If you want to talk about universal guaranteed income, or whatever, which surely is worthy of discussion, feel free to start a thread. You haven't once addressed the topic at hand.

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Mon Jul 23, 2018 5:32 pm

Papa Willie wrote:The strawman theory (again) is only used by liberals when they see a valid viewpoint that is opposite to their own viewpoint. It's almost like "that's not fair, and you can't use it". Be a fucking man, Mikey.

Btw - How many minds do you think you changed with this thread?

Bullshit, and you should be smart enough to know this.

You get it in your mind that somebody is "liberal" and you automatically assume that all of their opinions conform to your monolithic impression of what a "liberal" believes. Then you challenge them to defend a position that they've never taken, based only on your interpretation of what a "liberal" believes. You do it all the time.

BTW - I don't give a fuck if I changed your or anybody else's mind.
Are you trying to change peoples' minds every time you start a thread?

I've certainly shown that you have no idea of what a "strawman" argument is. And it's not a theory.

Shlomart Ben Yisrael · Mon Jul 23, 2018 5:45 pm

I'm about to post a crying baby pic...but I don't know who to attribute it to...

:?

quandary

Shlomart Ben Yisrael · Mon Jul 23, 2018 5:46 pm

Shlomart Ben Yisrael wrote:
quandary

yeah, I know...pray for him...whatever...

Smackie Chan · Post by **Smackie Chan** » Mon Jul 23, 2018 6:37 pm

Wow, PW. You know I seldom, if ever, jump into these type of discussions. But goddam, on a number of different levels, Mikey just pwned you. Even hurt a little bit to watch.

Shlomart Ben Yisrael · Mon Jul 23, 2018 6:56 pm

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Mon Jul 23, 2018 7:00 pm

Can't we all be Jim Rome and friends?

PS...a patriotic American would never look to Canada for a bailout.

Bucmonkey · Post by **Bucmonkey** » Mon Jul 23, 2018 7:47 pm

Fucking lemmings.

Left Seater · Post by **Left Seater** » Mon Jul 23, 2018 7:47 pm

Mikey wrote:If you want to talk about universal guaranteed income, or whatever, which surely is worthy of discussion, feel free to start a thread. You haven't once addressed the topic at hand.

I did. You banged out your usual response of but, Obama. Get back in the thread and discuss it. Otherwise you are moving the goal posts.

Shlomart Ben Yisrael · Mon Jul 23, 2018 8:45 pm

Mikey wrote:
PS...a patriotic American would never look to Canada for a bailout.

We bailed your asses out on D-Day.

:x

...a lttle...

...maybe...

Screw_Michigan · Post by **Screw_Michigan** » Mon Jul 23, 2018 11:11 pm

Smackie Chan wrote:Wow, PW. You know I seldom, if ever, jump into these type of discussions. But goddam, on a number of different levels, Mikey just pwned you. Even hurt a little bit to watch.

Softball Bat · Post by **Softball Bat** » Mon Jul 23, 2018 11:14 pm

Smackie Chan wrote:Wow, PW. You know I seldom, if ever, jump into these type of discussions. But goddam, on a number of different levels, Mikey just pwned you. Even hurt a little bit to watch.

He is desperate and is flailing badly.

#scroll

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Tue Jul 24, 2018 1:58 am

Papa Willie wrote:
Smackie Chan wrote:Wow, PW. You know I seldom, if ever, jump into these type of discussions. But goddam, on a number of different levels, Mikey just pwned you. Even hurt a little bit to watch.
Certainly you've noticed all the crying? I mean - fuck. It's just getting old. Every single day, Mikey, 'Tardt & Screwy just crying. They're not going to change the world by crying in here.

Calling out your Dear Leader for being an incompetent asshole, and you for being a stone cold moron is crying?

Sorry, little snowflake I’ll try be nicer in the future.

Softball Bat · Post by **Softball Bat** » Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:50 am

Papa Willie wrote:
Smackie Chan wrote:Wow, PW. You know I seldom, if ever, jump into these type of discussions. But goddam, on a number of different levels, Mikey just pwned you. Even hurt a little bit to watch.
Certainly you've noticed all the crying? I mean - fuck. It's just getting old. Every single day, Mikey, 'Tardt & Screwy just crying. They're not going to change the world by crying in here.

Your incoherent posts are not the fault of other people.

Get your shit together, lard @ss.

Screw_Michigan · Post by **Screw_Michigan** » Wed Jul 25, 2018 2:07 am

Mikey wrote:Calling out your Dear Leader for being an incompetent asshole, and you for being a stone cold moron is crying?

Sorry, little snowflake I’ll try be nicer in the future.

Shlomart Ben Yisrael · Wed Jul 25, 2018 2:18 am

Screw_Michigan wrote:

Are they conjoined twins?!?!?!

Screw_Michigan · Post by **Screw_Michigan** » Wed Jul 25, 2018 2:55 am

Could you imagine being married to that she-beast?

Yes, I can!

Sincerely,
Meltspray

Sent from my computer via fake news

Shlomart Ben Yisrael · Wed Jul 25, 2018 3:19 am

Rooster · Post by **Rooster** » Wed Jul 25, 2018 10:03 pm

The National Review just reported that Obama willingly and knowingly funded an Al Qaeda affiliate during his time in office. Makes me wonder how that squares with that writer who says he would ‘Bamy back in a nanosecond. And the Left is accusing Trump of treason? Wow. Here we have BHO giving aid and shelter to the enemy.