Flag Football

[Softball Bat]

Watch this video all the way through.
4:04.







I mean, you can't play defense any longer.
Guys just making regular defensive football plays and getting hit with 15 yd penalties.

No joke, if it is going to be this way they NFL would be better off doing away with tackling and just go the flat route.

Btw, how fitting that it was Walt freaking Coleman out there.



Discuss...

[Mikey]

As if flat earth isn’t crazy enough, now you’re going to start pushing flat football?

Tom Brady would be down with that.

[Left Seater]

This is a whole lot of noise about nothing. This new rule is the NCAA targeting rule with different labels. The NFL didn’t want to be seen copying a college rule, this is exactly what it is. Rule 9-1-3 in the NCAA Football Rulebook says leading with the crown of the helmet is illegal.

The players will change the way they hit pretty quickly and the game will be safer. Further this will have waves thru the lower levels as well since kids are trying to do what the NFL guys are doing.

[Wolfman]

Yesterday I was watching a bit of the high school 7 on 7. Tell me that will not be the youth football in the near future. Everybody out for a pass.

[Rooster]

With all the emphasis on concussion injuries and long term health concerns, football will soon be nothing but passing routes.

[Left Seater]

I disagree on all this hand wringing. Kick plays are by far the most dangerous. Then pass plates and last is running plays.

[Wolfman]

When I officiated high school football in New York, I did some games at the junior high level (grades 7-9) which were run on rules called Modified Football. There were no kick offs. Play began at the 35 yard line. Punts (scrimmage kicks) had no defensive rush and no return. I can see high school Varsity and JV levels going that route. The 7 on 7 (touch or flag) makes sense for youth ball under age 12. I retired from that in 2009 after 40 season (32c in CNY and 8 here). I saw a lot of change in rules against below the waist blocking and others to promote safety. Most coaches stopped teaching dangerous blocking and tackling methods. That helped a lot. A big issue I sensed was an increase the level of aggression that I had a lot to do with PEDs, especially at the bigger football schools. College scholarships and dreams on big $$ in the NFL fuel a lot of that.

[Dr_Phibes]

Just eliminate helmets and the safety position? And add an extra half hour onto games for all the flags? The league seems hell bent on imploding, I give this crap till Halloween. Latest.

[Softball Bat]

Yesterday I was watching a bit of the high school 7 on 7. Tell me that will not be the youth football in the near future. Everybody out for a pass.

I think you're right.

The players will change the way they hit pretty quickly and the game will be safer.

It is damn near impossible to tackle without "leading with your helmet."

Just eliminate helmets and the safety position?

I do believe that going back to a leather helmet with no facemask would be better than what they are trying to do now.

[Dr_Phibes]

Two teams you don't care about in a pre-season game, just thought it would be nice to watch some football. Got pissed off and turned it, half the flags - the 'hittee' turned into the helmet. That is completely untenable and unwatchable, wait till teams start losing meaningful games on that account. That garbage won't last long, it's suicide.

[Softball Bat]

I am not talking about "lowering the head" and using the helmet as a weapon.
"See what you hit" is right, and should be taught, but I am talking about reality.

Players wearing helmets will lead with the helmet to some degree, so long as they have that helmet on.

If you use a leather helmet with no facemask you'll get the result you want.

I like this rule.

I'm not surprised.


Phibes is right.
This is one of those calls that will be dished out in highly subjective ways.
Something that could be called on damn near any play.

It cannot be managed.

[Dr_Phibes]

88, they're flagging incidental contact to any part of the body with a helmet. An edict came down without a seconds thought or a just a vague, ridiculous explanation. Now there's only a few thousand individuals making shite along as they see fit. Sport requires specific rules to have a level field.

Helmets became mandatory in the NHL, late 80's and hey what, the puck came up to head level.

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

Helmets became mandatory in the NHL, late 80's and hey what, the puck came up to head level.

...and sticks turned into scimitars.

[smackaholic]

Going back to the 1920s for headgear is likely the best solution. As phibes said, there is going to be incidental contact. Also, ball carriers will also take advantage of this rule by moving so that the tackler has contact with the helmet first, to pick up an easy 15 yards.

There might be one other solution. Go to a 200 lb weight limit. There will still be plenty of injuries, but not like we have now with 260lb linebackers with 4.5 speed.

[Left Seater]

Not surprising that Sotball is wrong. Though to be fair he is probably listening to the wrong people. The talking heads are all wrong as well. They are focusing only on “leading with the head.” They are leaving out the crown of the helmet part.

Players absolutely can lead with the helmet as long as they can see what they are hitting. If your head is up then you can see what you are hitting. In 90% of tackles the defender’s head will be the first part of his body to contact the ball carrier. This isn’t a foul, unless he is leading with the crown of the helmet.

This is exactly rule 9-1-3 from the NCAA rulebook. There was a ton of whining when the NCAA put this in. But it turns out the players and coaches quickly adapted and instances of 9-1-3 are way down.

Also for what it is worth the ball carrier can also be guilty of leading with the crown of the helmet and the same foul will be called.

[Mikey]

But we want MORE violent collisions on the field, not less. Concussions and broken necks are what makes football exciting. Just like fiery crashes in NASCAR.

Pussies need not participate.

[Left Seater]

Maybe among the casual fan and millennial’s who just want to see highlights on their social media feeds.

Not so for the majority of fans. When you are at your next college give in person watch the reaction of the home crowd when a member of the visiting team is injured. Even more so when the injury is perceived to be serious. Can’t speak to the NFL as I haven’t been to a game in person in a decade or more.

[Mikey]

I think you’re right. I was using (hopefully) obvious sarcasm. I haven’t been to a live football game at any level for years. I do think it’s mostly the TV audience that’s looking for spectacular violence.

[Screw_Michigan]

It didn't work for Wallace, that's why no one else wears them. He even admitted as much.

Get a clue next time before you decide to post.

[Screw_Michigan]

Where did he say that? Additionally, 1 hard surface hitting 1 soft surface wouldn't be the cure-all. TWO soft surfaces would be far better. Have you ever heard of physics, you inbred fuck?

I did find something from 10 years ago about how some helmet maker was going to implement the ProCap technology into a new helmet. But I don't know what happened with that new helmet.

https://www.sfgate.com/business/article ... 453440.php

I think the ProCap isn't going to do enough to satisfactorily reduce the number of concussions.

Thanks for bringing this to my attention, TTL.

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

[Screw_Michigan]

If there wasn't a chance that it would reduce concussions, then why do you think they got the few football players to wear them to do as such?

Less than a handful of players have worn them in recent memory.

The league would have been better off mandating them but clearly they did not prioritize this.

[Softball Bat]

Not surprising that Sotball is wrong. Though to be fair he is probably listening to the wrong people. The talking heads are all wrong as well. They are focusing only on “leading with the head.” They are leaving out the crown of the helmet part.

1:53 to 2:03.
DId he lead with the crown of his helmet?

Nope.
It was just a safety making a normal play.


3:20 to 3:45.
Leading with the crown?

Nope.
Led with his shoulder and face mask.

[smackaholic]

The trouble with helmets is that they suck at energy absorption. I think making it larger with some light weight energy absorbing material between the shell and the players dome would be a big help. Concussion is caused not by hard surface collision, but by high G forces on the brain inside the helmet. Lower these G forces by adding a crumple zone and many would be avoided.

[Dr_Phibes]

Yeah, live from Bills training camp. Or penalty box, NFL style

[Softball Bat]

It's funny how just a decade ago ESPN had a segment on its highlight show called JACKED UP.

Talking heads sitting around, laffing, and chanting," so and so got... JACKED UP" as guys get destroyed on what would now be illegal hits.

lol

[Left Seater]

1:53 to 2:03.
DId he lead with the crown of his helmet?

Nope.
It was just a safety making a normal play.


3:20 to 3:45.
Leading with the crown?

Nope.
Led with his shoulder and face mask.

The first one is mediocre. BJ will get an incorrect call grade there in my estimation. He hesitated before throwing the flag and that should have been enough to take him off of the call.

The second one was crown of the helmet. Dude didn’t lead with his face mask and the crown is the part that makes the initial contact. There was zero need for him to drop his head there either.

[smackaholic]

Just thought of another solution.

Conehead helmets.

Have some sort of coneshaped top that is collapsible. Hits with anything other than the crown will deflect (possible snapping the tacklers neck). Direct hit with the crown would have a 3-4 inch crumple zone.

And the comedic value of an NFL game looking like a 70s SNL skit might help viewership.

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

[Dr_Phibes]

[Softball Bat]

“To all those [people] including those who made the rule,” 49ers cornerback Richard Sherman said on Twitter regarding the application of the rule. “I want a video of YOU running full speed and being lead by anything but your head while also attempting to bring down a moving target. You will soon realize it’s impossible.”

Still, Sherman is right regarding one very important point: In real time and at full speed, helmet contact by a tackler against a ball carrier is inevitable (especially when tackling from the side), and whether a penalty is or isn’t called will be a product of chance. The only way to avoid the risk of being flagged will be to ensure the face is up at all times (which is far easier said than done, particularly when diving) or to turn into the opponent at the right moment, striking him with the back of the shoulder pads and keeping the helmet completely out of the fray.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2 ... lmet-rule/

[Wolfman]

What was going on was a defender simply lowering their head without his arms out as if to tackle and using his helmet as the main point of contact. It's called SPEARING. I called a player on it during a college game I was working years ago. Along with a 15 yard penalty, it is automatic ejection from the game. An official does not make that call capriciously. After the game, a local orthopedic doctor who was in the stands came down while I was leaving the stadium and thanked me for making that call, saying all too many officials will not enforce the rule.

[Softball Bat]

This helmet rule can not be managed.
It can be called on damn near any play.


Pull up a game from 1988 (30 years ago) on youtube.
Look at it for a couple of minutes.

Then pull up a game from 2018.
Look at it.

The speed of the players, their size, and their strength have made the game very dangerous now in comparison to 1988.
The main culprit is the helmet -- which is a weapon, no matter how you slice it or try to legislate against it.

They need to go back to leather helmets and no face mask.

Admit that the game is too dangerous with players this big, fast, strong, and wearing weapons on their heads.

[Softball Bat]

Click and laff -- https://mobile.twitter.com/i/web/status ... 9624121344

[Softball Bat]

Penalty.















Some teams have male cheerleaders now, though.
So there is that.


Good luck, NFL!

[BSmack]

What this is going to do is create an overwhelming advantage for shorter defensive players who can gain leverage while keeping their head up. Probably not going to see nearly as many 6 ft 5 defensive ends as you used to. Probably probably will result in dramatic changes in defensive scheming.

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

There will be a bunch more knee an lower leg injuries as players will aim to blow a player up some other way

Even worse will be that these will be chop blocks.

Invest stock in stretcher companies.

[BSmack]

There will be a bunch more knee an lower leg injuries as players will aim to blow a player up some other way

If a player can't hit a guy straight in the middle of the chest with his head up, how is he going to be able to do it at knee level?

[Dr_Phibes]

Some teams have male cheerleaders now, though.
So there is that.


Good luck, NFL!

Didn't the Saints do that in the Hebert era? Think they had the pee taken out of them for that.

[Softball Bat]

How did they miss this one?