T1B

Some of you may not know that I also have a hobby as a travel agent. I have helped a few of you here with travel things in the past. I have access to sabre thru a major travel agency and I pay them a fee each month and we split any commissions that I might generate. I book tickets for my employees, family and friends.

As we all know the airline industry is taking it on the chin right now. That sucks as many will soon be laid off. Airlines are asking for huge bailouts and are having cash issues. Because of this they are also changing their rules as they attempt to hold onto more cash. This cash hording is in some instances completely against US DOT rules and often their own individual rules.

Take cancellations for example. The US Dept of Transportation says this about cancellations:

If your flight is cancelled and you choose to cancel your trip as a result, you are entitled to a refund for the unused transportation – even for non-refundable tickets. You are also entitled to a refund for any bag fee that you paid, and any extras you may have purchased, such as a seat assignment.

https://www.transportation.gov/individu ... cellations

That is pretty cut and dry info. If an airline cancels a flight on your reservation, you are entitled to a refund for the unused portion of the trip.

In the last few weeks we have seen airlines not honor refunds for cancelled flights. They are arguing that the cancellations are a result of government action and therefore the rules no longer apply. Airlines are even refusing to refund tickets that were purchased as refundable tickets.

United, JetBlue, and Lufthansa are the worst of them at this point. As if not following the US DOT rules wasn't enough airlines are using their association IATA to lobby for changes to these rules. Here is the IATA response to the EU refusing to change their rules on cancellations due to Covid-19:

The International Air Transport Association (IATA) and Airlines for Europe (A4E), reacted with dismay to the European Commission’s new guidelines on the application of the EU261 passenger rights regime.

The new guidelines are disappointing and unhelpful, falling far short of the simple and temporary alleviation airlines had requested for:

Recognition that no compensation is due in the event of cancellations due to COVID-19;
A limitation on the extensive obligations to provide care and assistance in the event of cancellations due to COVID-19;
Flexibility to allow airlines to offer rebooking or vouchers in place of refunds in the event of cancellations due to the pandemic.

https://www.iata.org/en/pressroom/pr/2020-03-18-01/

So airlines clearly recognize they are required to offer passengers refunds for cancelled flights and are asking for relief. That relief was not granted and yet we have airlines like Lufthansa issuing this statement yesterday:

The refund functionality for Lufthansa Group airlines’ tickets has been temporarily disabled in all reservation systems as well as on the airlines’ websites and on lhgroup-agent.com. Refunds requests already submitted will be processed at a later stage.

We are committed to supporting you in serving your customers. Additional details on how you can support your customers will be provided as soon as possible.

Last update:
23.03.2020 11:47 Hours CET

So my question for you attorneys is how should we as consumers handle this? Should we dispute charges with our credit card companies and include copies of the US DOT/EU rules along with the carriers own contract of carriage? Should we take this to a local attorney? A formal complaint to the DOT is a given, for each individual ticket, but that won't get people their money back.

Any suggestions?

Relax, keep abreast of policy changes and revisit in a week or two. If you are unhappy still then think about your other options.

I get that, but with airlines like United they have changed their policy directly away from what it had been, and what was listed on their web site. They now say they will issue a travel credit valid for 1 year. If and only then has the passenger not used the voucher it will be refunded only to the original form of payment. So passengers have to give United an interest free loan?

Also, some of these are 3 weeks old. Does waiting another week really help? What about for travel that is in the next few days. Flights have to be cancelled before departure or they will be marked as no show and all will be lost. What about flights that have been cancelled since travel was a week ago, but the airline still refuses to refund?

What would you advise a client of yours?

I've heard that some airlines are cancelling flights and offering only a partial refund, as if the traveler had cancelled a non-refundable ticket.

I have also heard of this but can't confirm with first hand experience.

I told you the same thing I told my sister in this situation.
I think the refund problem is a short term issue while they figure shit out.
Watch what is going on and stay abreast of policy changes (keep good records of everything) and revisit later, if the policy does solidify and you are not happy then act.
Most people will probably get swallowed in a class action anyways.

As for travel in next few days I would need to know more specifics.

All airlines have in their contract of carriage that flights must be cancelled prior to departure of the first flight segment or the entire itinerary will be cancelled and the ticket marked as no show. In the event a ticket is marked as no show, the passenger loses the value of the ticket and none of it can be used for future travel.

If a flight is cancelled and travel is for tomorrow should the passenger cancel the ticket on the airlines' web site and accept the offer of a voucher that equals the full value of the ticket to be used towards a future flight? If they do that it would seem to end any chance for a refund as the airline is going to claim that they agreed to the voucher. Never mind the airline is not offering a refund option to the passenger.

Further the airline hold times have been in excess of 8 hours. Someone could try to call, but there is no guarantee you will get thru to anyone.

Still a little lost. I’m in court right now but I will shoot you my phone number.

Thanks for your thoughts. We are seeing what you described with the Valero Texas Open of which I volunteer. Millions of dollars have already been spent in preparation for the tournament which was scheduled to begin in 9 days. So far the insurance company is saying they will not pay as it is a government action. The tourney is arguing that this is exactly what they purchased insurance for and if this is excluded, where is it listed in the policy?

Jsc810 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 24, 2020 5:28 pm

Left Seater wrote: ↑Tue Mar 24, 2020 2:03 pm In the last few weeks we have seen airlines not honor refunds for cancelled flights. They are arguing that the cancellations are a result of government action and therefore the rules no longer apply

A similar issue is playing out in every state re business interruption insurance, and the National Association of Insurance Commissioners is trying to get a resolution, so far without success. For now, the insurance companies are refusing to pay on the policies because they claim the business closures are due to government action. Look for a SCOTUS case in about 2 years.

As to your airline ticket issue, sure, I'd suggest getting your credit card involved, you paid for a service and it was not provided. And I also think that there will be policy and law changes soon, it may take awhile but methinks that customers will be made whole.

What about basic contract and tort law? Is that supposed to be suspended, as well?