T1B

Months ago, I stated here that there has been 1 country that got this right.

Sweden.

They didn't come up with some sort of new strategy to deal with it. They just stuck to infectious disease control 101. Social distancing, hygene, protection of the vulnerable.

Schools stayed open. Restaurants stayed open. Their economy, for the most part, stayed open.

They did have higher early mortality than neighboring countries such as Norway, Finland. Of course, they are a much bigger population and more diverse.

They are now seeing a case surge along with the rest of Europe and the US. But their death numbers are as flat as a board.

Are they better at treating than France, UK, Italy, Spain?

I doubt it.

So how are they handling this case surge so well?

They are handling it the old fashioned way. The way that man has handled pandemics for millenia. Herd immunity.

The doomsayers in the US like to say Trump is being wreckless.

Herd immunity will only come from a silver bullet vaccine, they say.

We have to keep hiding in the basement until it happens, kind of like their heroes, the Euro-trash did.

And where are those Euros?

Still hiding in the basement, in the middle of another surge in cases AND deaths...well, except for those silly Vikings up north that followed something akin to the Trump plan, which is get on with your life. Wash your hands. Keep the vulnerable under lockdown.

Take a look at this site.

https://www.google.com/search?client=fi ... CAw&uact=5

You can change country and go from 'deaths' to 'cases'.

Look at NY. Their death curve and cases curve looks sort of like Sweden's other than the fact that their death rate was many times higher. This is due partly to having a huge metro area and partly to Cuomo's bungling of the convalescent homes.

NY apparently has achieved herd immunity just like Sweden. They just paid a much higher price.

Now look at France or Italy's numbers. They got their shit pushed in early, especially Italy. Their early numbers were worse than Sweden's and they went into full lockdown and pretty much stayed there. They are now seeing a case and a death surge. They never achieved herd immunity. So they are now looking at a dark gloomy winter. Kind of like Joe Biden warns us about...if we don't follow the lockdown playbook.

Remember a few short months ago when it looked like Europe had a handle on things? The dems were using the numbers in July as evidence that they handled it better than we have.

So where are out numbers?

We are seeing cases up, like everyone. But deaths are virtually flat. They are higher than Sweden's of course due to size and population densities. But we are NOT seeing deaths surge. We have some level of herd immunity, which will improve as more and more of our healthy population deals with it.

Pssst....Sweden has socialized health care.

Diego in Seattle wrote: ↑Mon Nov 02, 2020 4:31 pm Pssst....Sweden has socialized health care.

That's a good point. It's also a homogeneous society -- or was, before the refugee crisis.

Diego in Seattle wrote: ↑Mon Nov 02, 2020 4:31 pm Pssst....Sweden has socialized health care.

And your point is?

UK, Spain, France, Italy.....all have socialized medicine. All are in the midst of another death wave.

Why?

Sweden didn't lock down, the others did. They have a substantial level of herd immunity. The others don't.

The rest of the world outside Sweden and the US is basically hiding while praying for a vaccine.

Wow. Who knew the answers to the pandemic could be found here?

I thought about checking out something like this

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-co ... t-20486808

But why bother with doctors and science and all that bs.

All we need is an idiot’s empirical, half-witted observation.

smackaholic wrote: ↑Mon Nov 02, 2020 5:27 pm

Diego in Seattle wrote: ↑Mon Nov 02, 2020 4:31 pm Pssst....Sweden has socialized health care.

And your point is?

UK, Spain, France, Italy.....all have socialized medicine. All are in the midst of another death wave.

Why?

Sweden didn't lock down, the others did. They have a substantial level of herd immunity. The others don't.

The rest of the world outside Sweden and the US is basically hiding while praying for a vaccine.

Even if you do believe that a whole country (especially our size) can establish herd immunity (I don't), you're missing a big part of why Sweden has a much lower death rate. People in Sweden were able to get tested as soon as they developed symptoms, and with socialized medicine the Swedish people didn't have to wait until they were ICU material to either go to the hospital (cost) or get admitted. When people have access to health care they will have better outcomes than those who don't.

Diego in Seattle wrote: ↑Mon Nov 02, 2020 5:59 pm

smackaholic wrote: ↑Mon Nov 02, 2020 5:27 pm

Diego in Seattle wrote: ↑Mon Nov 02, 2020 4:31 pm Pssst....Sweden has socialized health care.

And your point is?

UK, Spain, France, Italy.....all have socialized medicine. All are in the midst of another death wave.

Why?

Sweden didn't lock down, the others did. They have a substantial level of herd immunity. The others don't.

The rest of the world outside Sweden and the US is basically hiding while praying for a vaccine.

Even if you do believe that a whole country (especially our size) can establish herd immunity (I don't), you're missing a big part of why Sweden has a much lower death rate. People in Sweden were able to get tested as soon as they developed symptoms, and with socialized medicine the Swedish people didn't have to wait until they were ICU material to either go to the hospital (cost) or get admitted. When people have access to health care they will have better outcomes than those who don't.

I'll ask you one more time, dumbfukk.

Why are the other countries of Europe, all of whom have your precious socialized single payer healthcare, getting their asses kicked?

We all have case surges. The locked down countries have seen surges in deaths. Those that didn't, the US and Sweden, have not seen these surges.

There isn't going be herd immunity to the chinky virus. Antibodies are only lasting 3 to 4 months.

smackaholic wrote: ↑Mon Nov 02, 2020 6:25 pm

Diego in Seattle wrote: ↑Mon Nov 02, 2020 5:59 pm

smackaholic wrote: ↑Mon Nov 02, 2020 5:27 pm

And your point is?

UK, Spain, France, Italy.....all have socialized medicine. All are in the midst of another death wave.

Why?

Sweden didn't lock down, the others did. They have a substantial level of herd immunity. The others don't.

The rest of the world outside Sweden and the US is basically hiding while praying for a vaccine.

Even if you do believe that a whole country (especially our size) can establish herd immunity (I don't), you're missing a big part of why Sweden has a much lower death rate. People in Sweden were able to get tested as soon as they developed symptoms, and with socialized medicine the Swedish people didn't have to wait until they were ICU material to either go to the hospital (cost) or get admitted. When people have access to health care they will have better outcomes than those who don't.

I'll ask you one more time, dumbfukk.

Why are the other countries of Europe, all of whom have your precious socialized single payer healthcare, getting their asses kicked?

We all have case surges. The locked down countries have seen surges in deaths. Those that didn't, the US and Sweden, have not seen these surges.

Surges in death rates follow surges in hospitalizations.

Just wait...

mvscal,

Don't know how long the effect is. Not sure if anyone does. But the data we have to date says that countries that lockdown don't fare as well as those that didn't. The countries I mentioned have had death rates in line with the surge in cases.

Sweden didn't. NY didn't.

Are Sweden and NY better at treating new cases?

We've all gotten better, but NY and Sweden must be benefiting from natural herd immunity that is a product of exposure. Sweden attained this exposure in a sensible fashion. NY stumbled and bumbled to it.

They had nearly 3X the deaths per capita.

There are a number of reasons for this.

Number one, NY has a ginormous metro area that is heavily dependent on mass transit.

It also is more, uhhhhhh, diverse. Fat folks on welfare, on average, don't take care of themselves as well as vikings.

Lastly, those orderly hard working fit vikings do have a pretty damn good single payer system. If they had a market based system like ours, I'd wager it would run pretty well also.

This is a rather unfortunate universal truf. Lilly white homogenous Euros do civilization better than diverse societies. It is why Bernie always references Norway and not Venezuela. Of course, American commie wannabes ignore the fact that the Nordic countries tax the fukk out of pretty much everyone but sensible regulation and corporate rates. They don't pretend the rich can pay it all.

Diego,

Look at that google chart.

Sweden cases started surging right along with the rest of the euro-trash, 2 months ago.

The case/death lag is typically two weeks.

It hasn't happened yet.

smackaholic wrote: ↑Mon Nov 02, 2020 3:25 pm Herd immunity.

Do you even know what "herd immunity" means?

I think you're mixing it up with "herd mentality" like your Orange Dear Leader, and which is something that you and your fellow brainless Trumpistas already seem to have accomplished.

I do.

Herd immunity is when enough of the herd has attained some level of immunity via either direct exposure or vaccination that the virus has a tough time spreading.

A vaccine will definitely help, when and if it arrives. Until then we have the old fashioned version of it.

NY state and Sweden are two examples of what appears to be old timey herd immunity, coupled with a much improved ability to deal with cases thanks to the better part of a year of doing so.

Found this on the interwebs, so it has to be true.....

herd im·mu·ni·ty
noun
noun: herd immunity; plural noun: herd immunities

resistance to the spread of an infectious disease within a population that is based on pre-existing immunity of a high proportion of individuals as a result of previous infection or vaccination.
"the level of vaccination needed to achieve herd immunity varies by disease but ranges from 83 to 94 percent"

So you think that 83% to 94% of people in Sweden and New York have been infected?

Can you link us to any evidence of this, beyond your wishful thinking?

It's my understanding that less than 10% of people in Stockholm have developed antibodies.

'holic, NZ thinks you're an idiot.

Suckaholic has no interest in facts. Just like the rest of the right wing fascists.

He has an observation and then tries to manufacture an explanation based on what she wishes it to be.

Scientific? Hell no. They don’t believe in science. At least not until it agrees with a preestablished belief.

Even if you do go for "herd immunity" where are you going to put all the sick people (assuming you want them to recover)? Hospitals in a lot of the country are already full up.

Where are you going to pile all the dead bodies? Some cities are already deploying portable freezers to take care of the overload.

Why is such a large percentage of our country so completely ignorant, ill-informed and just plain stupid?

Mikey wrote: ↑Mon Nov 02, 2020 10:10 pm Why is such a large percentage of our country so completely ignorant, ill-informed and just plain stupid?

Have you seen where the red states are? Getting past third grade is like a masters degree.

Mikey wrote: ↑Mon Nov 02, 2020 10:10 pmWhy is such a large percentage of our country so completely ignorant, ill-informed and just plain stupid?

Gotta be our diversity.

Diego in Seattle wrote: ↑Mon Nov 02, 2020 9:57 pm 'holic, NZ thinks you're an idiot.

NZ is a tiny, geographically isolated country that has shut down and is praying that someone, somewhere comes up with a vaccine. What will they do if an effective vaccine is years off?

Keeping everything slammed shut is fiancially ruinous. Poverty kills more people than the 'rona ever thought of.

We can walk and chew gum at the same time. If the Kiwis wanna keep the hatches barrened, they can. They aren't really relevant to the world economy.

We need to get on with things. Wear a mask, don't wear a mask. It doesn't really matter. Not congregating in large groups inside should be the priority. In such an environment, a layer of cloth does does little to nothing.

Smackie Chan wrote: ↑Mon Nov 02, 2020 10:49 pm

Mikey wrote: ↑Mon Nov 02, 2020 10:10 pmWhy is such a large percentage of our country so completely ignorant, ill-informed and just plain stupid?

Gotta be our diversity.

Racissssss!!!!!!

Mikey wrote: ↑Mon Nov 02, 2020 9:48 pm So you think that 83% to 94% of people in Sweden and New York have been infected?

Can you link us to any evidence of this, beyond your wishful thinking?

It's my understanding that less than 10% of people in Stockholm have developed antibodies.

That link did use those numbers. I have seen other articles saying 40% has an effect. I doubt we'll ever know real numbers since so many can carry this disease and remain asymptomatic.

The fact remains, the Swedes for some reason have become very good at not getting dead from CV. Better than their euro cousins who have comparable healthcare.

The fact remains that you don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

EOS

smackaholic wrote: ↑Mon Nov 02, 2020 10:58 pm

Mikey wrote: ↑Mon Nov 02, 2020 9:48 pm So you think that 83% to 94% of people in Sweden and New York have been infected?

Can you link us to any evidence of this, beyond your wishful thinking?

It's my understanding that less than 10% of people in Stockholm have developed antibodies.

That link did use those numbers. I have seen other articles saying 40% has an effect. I doubt we'll ever know real numbers since so many can carry this disease and remain asymptomatic.

The fact remains, the Swedes for some reason have become very good at not getting dead from CV. Better than their euro cousins who have comparable healthcare.

Maybe it’s a diet heavy in reindeer meat and cod fish.

It being a single payer system is irrelevant to my point.

It’s about how the society dealt with it.

Other countries with socialized medicine followed the model the dems think we should follow. Massive lockdowns.

And how did that work out?

The answer to dealing with this is to follow the same practices we have for evah.

1. Protect the vulnerable. We’ve known who they are pretty much from the start.

2. Practice heightened hygiene practices and maybe even limit occupancy to inside areas.

3. Wear masks. Mainly to make people happy. Actual stats show they don’t do a lot. People get sick with or without them. And don’t forget that last March the “experts” said masks were a waste of time. They jumped on the mask bandwagon when they realized this thing was nasty as Italy got raped.

4. Develop testing quickly.

This is one area the US was behind the curve on. Not because Trump was asleep. It was because CDC was tasked with this and their first shot at an in house test was a swing and a miss.

Why didn’t we just grab one off the shelf from the SoKos?

Good question.

My guess is that the powers that be in that agency wanted to push the work to their buddies so they could all get rich.


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Bill in Houston wrote:

smackaholic wrote: ↑Mon Nov 02, 2020 10:58 pm

Mikey wrote: ↑Mon Nov 02, 2020 9:48 pm So you think that 83% to 94% of people in Sweden and New York have been infected?

Can you link us to any evidence of this, beyond your wishful thinking?

It's my understanding that less than 10% of people in Stockholm have developed antibodies.

That link did use those numbers. I have seen other articles saying 40% has an effect. I doubt we'll ever know real numbers since so many can carry this disease and remain asymptomatic.

The fact remains, the Swedes for some reason have become very good at not getting dead from CV. Better than their euro cousins who have comparable healthcare.

Maybe it’s a diet heavy in reindeer meat and cod fish.

I assume they are reindeer and cod during the first wave when they got hammered alone with everyone else.

This time around, they are weathering the case surge much better. So is NY.

What do they share, besides high levels of exposure?

If someone has anything plausible, I’d like to hear it.

So far all I’ve gotten is socialized medicine is awesome and insults.

Rack Diego for at least trying.

But, the fact that other countries with similar types of healthcare systems are having a rough time. If anything, you’d expect Spain and Italy who are still enjoying nice weather to be doing better.

They aren’t.

Why?


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Mikey wrote:So you think that 83% to 94% of people in Sweden and New York have been infected?

Can you link us to any evidence of this, beyond your wishful thinking?

It's my understanding that less than 10% of people in Stockholm have developed antibodies.

It may be that the antibodies occur in people who actually become infected and that a substantial percentage of the population just shrugs it off so effortlessly, it doesn’t bother with the antibodies.

I’m still open to other viable explanations.

Anyone got any?


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smackaholic wrote: ↑Mon Nov 02, 2020 11:45 pm

Bill in Houston wrote:

smackaholic wrote: ↑Mon Nov 02, 2020 10:58 pm

That link did use those numbers. I have seen other articles saying 40% has an effect. I doubt we'll ever know real numbers since so many can carry this disease and remain asymptomatic.

The fact remains, the Swedes for some reason have become very good at not getting dead from CV. Better than their euro cousins who have comparable healthcare.

Maybe it’s a diet heavy in reindeer meat and cod fish.

I assume they are reindeer and cod during the first wave when they got hammered alone with everyone else.

This time around, they are weathering the case surge much better. So is NY.

What do they share, besides high levels of exposure?

If someone has anything plausible, I’d like to hear it.

So far all I’ve gotten is socialized medicine is awesome and insults.

Rack Diego for at least trying.

But, the fact that other countries with similar types of healthcare systems are having a rough time. If anything, you’d expect Spain and Italy who are still enjoying nice weather to be doing better.

They aren’t.

Why?


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What makes you think Sweden and NY both have some secret solution?

Ever hear of a coincidence?

Absent any real evidence or data you’re just pulling guesses out of your ass because you would like them to be true.

Are there trailer parks in Sweden? I assume those who live in them are just called "trash," since "white trash" goes without saying.

Maybe they have "white trash" and "whiter trash."

Mikey wrote: ↑Tue Nov 03, 2020 12:15 am Maybe they have "white trash" and "whiter trash."

Swedish diversity

Bill in Houston wrote: ↑Mon Nov 02, 2020 11:59 pm What makes you think Sweden and NY both have some secret solution?

Ever hear of a coincidence?

Absent any real evidence or data you’re just pulling guesses out of your ass because you would like them to be true.

There's nothing secret about it.

Both places had high levels of exposure. Sweden did it more intelligently.

Today, neither place has seen much of a rise in deaths. The same can be said for the US as a whole.

The rest of the Euros OTOH, are entering a spike in deaths, despite their wonderful free healfcare and higher levels of lockdown throughout the year.

As for real data, did you look at the google site I referenced? It is very easy to look at cases and deaths, by country or by state.

Look at Sweden and NY. Both have virtually no deaths for over 3 months.

Then look at UK, France, Italy. They all have recent surges in death numbers. Even the Germans, who are supposed to be the role models are suffering from it.

Another interesting one to look at is Poland.

Somehow, they managed to pretty much completely dodge the opening wave. Very few cases or deaths until about the last 6 weeks. Now they are getting their asses kicked, in cases and deaths.

This is what happens hen you have no exposure to it.

Yes they all got CV19 without being exposed to it.
You really are a stupid, orange dick sucking POS.

You really aren't that sharp, are you?

Have you bothered to look at the google page?

Poland, Czech other former Commies in the area were largely spared a visit from the 'rona last spring. It turned up there sometime over the summer.

Now they are getting their shit pushed in by it.

They are going through what most went through in March/April. Fortunately for them, they at least have our medical experience to look at.

Let's just hope they look after their elderly better than Cuomo did. That is the key to key #19 from running up the score.

smackaholic wrote: ↑Tue Nov 03, 2020 3:17 am Another interesting one to look at is Poland.

Somehow, they managed to pretty much completely dodge the opening wave. Very few cases or deaths until about the last 6 weeks. Now they are getting their asses kicked, in cases and deaths.

This is what happens hen you have no exposure to it.

Again, your "research" methodology is laughable. You cherry pick locations to substantiate your theory. And reject as insignificant those vast areas that just don't fit your ideas.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/as-coronav ... 6k4mlodvge

You disregard NZ as insignificant, yet they've been very successful in preventing transmission and more importantly saving lives.

How does Australia, China, Thailand, Vietnam, Taiwan fit into your analysis?

Oh yeah, feel free to mix in some science, or not.

Mikey wrote: ↑Mon Nov 02, 2020 11:04 pm The fact remains that you don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

EOS

Suckaholic's death rattle at the end of a disastrous 4 years of Trump authoritarian rule.