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The U.S. Isn’t Ready for a Modern War

Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2024 1:18 pm
by StrawMan
Today, a $3,000 drone can take out a $10 million tank. When will the American military learn that lesson, asks veteran Elliot Ackerman.

By Elliot Ackerman, October 2, 2024
Two years ago, I was invited to lunch in Washington with Gilman Louie, a tech venture capitalist. He was in town to discuss the passage of the CHIPS Act, a $53 billion reinvestment in America’s semiconductor supply chain. Gilman believed that the offshoring of tech manufacturing was a dire national security issue. His concerns were many—from the vulnerability of Taiwan’s chip industry to China’s navy having surpassed the size of our own. If we ever had to fight World War III, the U.S. wouldn’t be ready.

. . .

“In the Second World War, which nation produced the most exquisite technology? Because it wasn’t the United States.”

It was Germany, as Gilman reminded me.

Back then, American Sherman tanks—nicknamed “flaming coffins” by GIs—proved no match in a one-on-one contest with their German counterpart, the Tiger tank. Both the fighter jet and the long-range ballistic missile, innovations that came late in the war, weren’t creations of the Allies, but of Germany. With the notable exception of the atom bomb, the Germans were consistently the first to field what was then considered exquisite technology. The problem for the Germans was that they lacked industrial capacity. The Allies defeated the Axis with inferior technology that could be mass produced.

Today, the United States finds itself in the position of the Germans. We have divested ourselves of much of our industrial capacity. China, meanwhile, with 35 percent of the world’s global manufacturing output, finds itself in the position that allowed the United States to win the Second World War. With wars being fought in Europe and the Middle East, and continued Chinese aggression in the South China Sea, it’s hard to understate our vulnerability.

. . . cont'd
https://www.thefp.com/p/usa-germany-wor ... ee-weapons

Interesting article re our readiness, or lack thereof, and is definitely worth a read.

This Free Press article lays bare how unprepared we are. Does our country have what it takes to meet the demands of modern warfare? Would our bureaucrats and business titans step up when patriotism is most needed?

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These questions reminded me of a book I read recently:

Freedom's Forge: How American Business Produced Victory in World War II

Freedom's Forge is an excellent read for anyone interested in WWII history, and it also underscores our current lack of preparedness. Freedom's Forge is the story of the men who set aside petty differences, industrialized our unprepared nation, and developed the U.S. war machine of WWII. I highly recommend this book!

From Goodreads:
Remarkable as it may seem today, there once was a time when the president of the United States could pick up the phone and ask the president of General Motors to resign his position and take the reins of a great national enterprise. And the CEO would oblige, no questions asked, because it was his patriotic duty.

In Freedom’s Forge, bestselling author Arthur Herman takes us back to that time, revealing how two extraordinary American businessmen—automobile magnate William Knudsen and shipbuilder Henry J. Kaiser—helped corral, cajole, and inspire business leaders across the country to mobilize the “arsenal of democracy” that propelled the Allies to victory in World War II.

“Knudsen? I want to see you in Washington. I want you to work on some production matters.” With those words, President Franklin D. Roosevelt enlisted “Big Bill” Knudsen, a Danish immigrant who had risen through the ranks of the auto industry to become president of General Motors, to drop his plans for market domination and join the U.S. Army. Commissioned a lieutenant general, Knudsen assembled a crack team of industrial innovators, persuading them one by one to leave their lucrative private sector positions and join him in Washington, D.C. Dubbed the “dollar-a-year men,” these dedicated patriots quickly took charge of America’s moribund war production effort.

Henry J. Kaiser was a maverick California industrialist famed for his innovative business techniques and his can-do management style. He, too, joined the cause. His Liberty ships became World War II icons—and the Kaiser name became so admired that FDR briefly considered making him his vice president in 1944. Together, Knudsen and Kaiser created a wartime production behemoth. Drafting top talent from companies like Chrysler, Republic Steel, Boeing, Lockheed, GE, and Frigidaire, they turned auto plants into aircraft factories and civilian assembly lines into fountains of munitions, giving Americans fighting in Europe and Asia the tools they needed to defeat the Axis. In four short years they transformed America’s army from a hollow shell into a truly global force, laying the foundations for a new industrial America—and for the country’s rise as an economic as well as military superpower.

Featuring behind-the-scenes portraits of FDR, George Marshall, Henry Stimson, Harry Hopkins, Jimmy Doolittle, and Curtis LeMay, as well as scores of largely forgotten heroes and heroines of the wartime industrial effort, Freedom’s Forge is the American story writ large. It vividly re-creates American industry’s finest hour, when the nation’s business elites put aside their pursuit of profits and set about saving the world.

Re: The U.S. Isn’t Ready for a Modern War

Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2024 2:56 pm
by Roux
Oh, somehow I suspect Boston Dynamics and similar companies have some products that will be useful in a modern war.


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Re: The U.S. Isn’t Ready for a Modern War

Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2024 4:02 pm
by Mikey
Do you seriously think that any of today’s American businesses “leaders” like Ellen Musk, Peter Thiel, Mark Fucking Zuckerberg, etc. would get behind such an effort? They’d run away to some private island or hop a SpaceX to Mars. The first two aren’t even American, BTW, and probably just sell out to the highest bidder.

Re: The U.S. Isn’t Ready for a Modern War

Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2024 4:44 pm
by Screw_Michigan
"The US isn't ready for a modern war" is a whine that I have heard on an annual basis for the last 15 years of my life and I'm sure one that people older than me have heard for longer than that. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzz.................

Re: The U.S. Isn’t Ready for a Modern War

Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2024 6:07 pm
by Carson
Ditto Screwey.

Re: The U.S. Isn’t Ready for a Modern War

Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2024 7:12 pm
by Sudden Sam
Mikey wrote: Thu Oct 10, 2024 4:02 pm Do you seriously think that any of today’s American businesses “leaders” like Ellen Musk, Peter Thiel…aren’t even American, BTW, and probably just sell out to the highest bidder.
Their not being Americans doesn’t enhance the likelihood of them selling out. I’d suggest that most Americans would sell this country out for a few bucks. The Chinese have been buying American politicians, landowners, and military personnel for years.

Re: The U.S. Isn’t Ready for a Modern War

Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2024 7:47 pm
by Mikey
Sudden Sam wrote: Thu Oct 10, 2024 7:12 pm
Their not being Americans doesn’t enhance the likelihood of them selling out.
You may be right. But I know for a fact that they’re eating our dogs and cats. And geese.

Re: The U.S. Isn’t Ready for a Modern War

Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2024 8:31 pm
by Sudden Sam
Mikey wrote: Thu Oct 10, 2024 7:47 pm
Sudden Sam wrote: Thu Oct 10, 2024 7:12 pm
Their not being Americans doesn’t enhance the likelihood of them selling out.
You may be right. But I know for a fact that they’re eating our dogs and cats. And geese.
Of course. That goes without saying.

Re: The U.S. Isn’t Ready for a Modern War

Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2024 8:35 pm
by Dr_Phibes
StrawMan wrote: Thu Oct 10, 2024 1:18 pm
The problem for the Germans was that they lacked industrial capacity. The Allies defeated the Axis with inferior technology that could be mass produced.
Today, the United States finds itself in the position of the Germans. We have divested ourselves of much of our industrial capacity.
Nothing could be further from the truth, the Germans had nothing but industrial capacity, their production numbers were astounding. Germany didn't divest itself of anything, the only thing that stopped it was the crippling of a few key industries through bombing and access to fuel.

If the author is trying to make the point of 'lack of production' through population size comparisons, he's badly muddled the job. He's comparing apples to oranges. :?:

Re: The U.S. Isn’t Ready for a Modern War

Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2024 8:49 pm
by Sudden Sam
Dr_Phibes wrote: Thu Oct 10, 2024 8:35 pm
StrawMan wrote: Thu Oct 10, 2024 1:18 pm
The problem for the Germans was that they lacked industrial capacity. The Allies defeated the Axis with inferior technology that could be mass produced.
Today, the United States finds itself in the position of the Germans. We have divested ourselves of much of our industrial capacity.
Nothing could be further from the truth, the Germans had nothing but industrial capacity, their production numbers were astounding. Germany didn't divest itself of anything, the only thing that stopped it was the crippling of a few key industries through bombing and access to fuel.

If the author is trying to make the point of 'lack of production' through population size comparisons, he's badly muddled the job. He's comparing apples to oranges. :?:
I assumed the author was referring to the Germans’ diminished industrial capacity due to bombing and fuel shortages.

Re: The U.S. Isn’t Ready for a Modern War

Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2024 11:48 pm
by Dr_Phibes
Strange, since the selection of technologies was made before and during peak production. The choices made for selection of technology was often dictated by access to raw material (no aluminum for mass production of a copy-cat T-34 diesel engine). He's trying to make this bizarre connection between the US off-shoring the manufacturing process by confusing the industrial capabilities of a country (that had no problem mass producing) restricted from resources largely by geography.

Re: The U.S. Isn’t Ready for a Modern War

Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2024 6:39 pm
by mvscal
Total bullshit article. German tech in WW2 was highly overrated. This guy can't even basic facts straight. The Sherman was not "counterpart" of the Tiger tank. The Sherman's counterpart was the Mark IV and the Sherman was more than capable against them. The final Sherman variant, the Easy 8, was also more than a match against the Panther as well.

The Tiger was an overengineered hunk of shit with astonishingly poor operational readiness. Plus they only built 1,300 of them. They were totally irrelevant.

Re: The U.S. Isn’t Ready for a Modern War

Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2024 9:53 pm
by Wolfman
True when it comes to defenses. Our offense still packs the 3 pronged forces: land based ICBMs, SAC Bombers although aged have modern gear, and ICBM bearing Trident subs. We can hope that sane minds exist in Russia, China, and Iran.

Re: The U.S. Isn’t Ready for a Modern War

Posted: Sat Oct 12, 2024 12:21 am
by mvscal
Wolfman wrote: Fri Oct 11, 2024 9:53 pm True when it comes to defenses. Our offense still packs the 3 pronged forces: land based ICBMs, SAC Bombers although aged have modern gear, and ICBM bearing Trident subs. We can hope that sane minds exist in Russia, China, and Iran.
That is strictly nuclear deterrent and bombers aren't part of that any more.

How far are we willing to go in defense of allies and how far are our enemies prepared to go against them?

China isn't going to attack Taiwan. They simply can't. They could annihilate it, but that would be pointless. They will subvert it.

Russia is almost three years into their three day special military operation in Ukraine. The absolute last thing they want is a direct confrontation with NATO.

Re: The U.S. Isn’t Ready for a Modern War

Posted: Sun Oct 20, 2024 5:52 pm
by The Seer
He isn't helping....

Blackmail: Zelensky Threatens to Find Nukes If He’s Not Allowed Into NATO.

Ukraine’s President Volodymyr Zelensky has threatened to acquire nuclear weapons if NATO refuses to accept Ukraine as a member, which would likely trigger an open war between the West and Russia due to the military alliance’s mutual defense clause. Speaking to a conference of European Union (EU) leaders in Brussels, Belgium, on Thursday, Zelensky stated that nuclear rearmament is the only other option for this country if NATO membership is denied. “What way out do we have? Either Ukraine will have nuclear weapons, or we have to be in some kind of alliance,” Zelensky insisted, claiming he would greatly prefer to join NATO. Following the collapse of the Soviet Union, Ukraine had nuclear weapons on its territory, but it gave them up in 1994 as part of the Budapest Memorandum on Ukrainian sovereignty.

Maybe Trump can be given the reins on Nov 6th to prevent vaporization....

https://thenationalpulse.com/2024/10/19 ... into-nato/

Re: The U.S. Isn’t Ready for a Modern War

Posted: Sun Oct 20, 2024 11:37 pm
by Diego in Seattle
The Seer wrote: Sun Oct 20, 2024 5:52 pm Maybe Trump can be given the reins on Nov 6th to prevent vaporization....
So you're saying that we should give the reins to someone who suggested we should nuke hurricanes to "prevent vaporization?"

That's one of the most stupid things I've seen written on this board, and that's saying something...

Re: The U.S. Isn’t Ready for a Modern War

Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2024 12:52 am
by 88BuckeyeGrad
I personally think the U.S. should not engage in any warfare that does not involve defense of the sovereign territory of the 50 states that form the union from foreign incursion. Otherwise, no fucking way.

Re: The U.S. Isn’t Ready for a Modern War

Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2024 12:56 am
by FiatLux
88BuckeyeGrad wrote: Mon Oct 21, 2024 12:52 am I personally think the U.S. should not engage in any warfare that does not involve defense of the sovereign territory of the 50 states that form the union from foreign incursion. Otherwise, no fucking way.


Of course not. That's why the Nazis lost.

Better luck next time.

Re: The U.S. Isn’t Ready for a Modern War

Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2024 1:59 pm
by 88BuckeyeGrad
FiatLux wrote: Mon Oct 21, 2024 12:56 am
88BuckeyeGrad wrote: Mon Oct 21, 2024 12:52 am I personally think the U.S. should not engage in any warfare that does not involve defense of the sovereign territory of the 50 states that form the union from foreign incursion. Otherwise, no fucking way.


Of course not. That's why the Nazis lost.

Better luck next time.
Anyone who wants to go fight overseas for a different sovereign is welcome to do so. Raise money, buy arms and fly your ass to the combat zone etc.

Furthermore, if a majority of the people of this country, by and through their representatives in Congress, wishes to pass a declaration of war for the purpose of defending some other nation (which I would likely be opposed to), so be it. But the shit that has been going on since the end of WWII is not good. Korea, Vietnam, Grenada, Kosovo, Afghanistan, Iraq, etc. etc. etc.

Re: The U.S. Isn’t Ready for a Modern War

Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2024 5:45 pm
by HighPlainsGrifter
The US foments regime change, stokes hostilities, and swoops in to fight both sides of a war it created for the express purpose of moving taxpayer funds to private companies through military spending. Been happening for decades. Thank God people are finally waking up to Roosevelt's warning about the Military Industrial Complex.

If it doesn't threaten the homeland, we stay out of it. We should be building roads and schools to develop friendships, not bombing hospitals and then rebuilding them.

Re: The U.S. Isn’t Ready for a Modern War

Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2024 5:49 pm
by 88BuckeyeGrad
HPG: Thank God people are finally waking up to Roosevelt's warning about the Military Industrial Complex.

88: Roosevelt?

Seer: Forget it. He's rolling.

Re: The U.S. Isn’t Ready for a Modern War

Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2024 6:23 pm
by HighPlainsGrifter
Wait! Shit. Eisenhower?

I should have looked that one up.

Re: The U.S. Isn’t Ready for a Modern War

Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2024 6:55 pm
by The Whistle Is Screaming
88BuckeyeGrad wrote: Mon Oct 21, 2024 5:49 pm HPG: Thank God people are finally waking up to Roosevelt's warning about the Military Industrial Complex.

88: Roosevelt?

Seer: Forget it. He's rolling.

TOGA, TOGA, TOGA!!!

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Sin,
HPGrimley

Re: The U.S. Isn’t Ready for a Modern War

Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2024 7:20 pm
by HighPlainsGrifter
This thread: HPG
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Re: The U.S. Isn’t Ready for a Modern War

Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2024 8:30 pm
by Sudden Sam
The Whistle Is Screaming wrote: Mon Oct 21, 2024 6:55 pm TOGA, TOGA, TOGA!!!

Image

Sin,
HPGrimley
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Re: The U.S. Isn’t Ready for a Modern War

Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2024 8:46 pm
by HighPlainsGrifter
Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?

Re: The U.S. Isn’t Ready for a Modern War

Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2024 10:31 pm
by 88BuckeyeGrad
HighPlainsGrifter wrote: Mon Oct 21, 2024 8:46 pm Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
That is what I was channeling. Not sure where TWIS went.

Re: The U.S. Isn’t Ready for a Modern War

Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2024 7:14 pm
by The Whistle Is Screaming
88BuckeyeGrad wrote: Mon Oct 21, 2024 10:31 pm
HighPlainsGrifter wrote: Mon Oct 21, 2024 8:46 pm Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
That is what I was channeling. Not sure where TWIS went.
Oy! Do I really need to explain it?

Re: The U.S. Isn’t Ready for a Modern War

Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2024 8:18 pm
by Meat Head
What about when Mao sunk the Maine?