T1B

Posted: **Wed Aug 24, 2005 11:32 pm**

....then the Chargers should control the AFC West. :wink:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/8755729

Pat Kirwan By Pat Kirwan
NFL.com Senior Analyst

Turnovers could be key in explosive AFC West.

(Aug. 22, 2005) -- The AFC West always has had a reputation as the Wild West all the way back to the AFL days, and not much has really changed. It might be the most difficult division in football to predict which team will win the title.

Last year, San Diego jumped from last to first in one season. But that is not uncommon in this division. In the past three years, a different team has come in first (Kansas City in 2003; Oakland in 2002). The only consistency seems to be the Denver Broncos, who have come in second place all three years.

Ask four people which team will win the AFC West this season, and you are likely to get four different answers. Can Randy Moss and LaMont Jordan flip the Raiders from worst to first? Is Drew Brees a one-year wonder? Can the high-powered Chiefs offense get any support from their defense now that they have added a number of free agents? Will Denver get Jake Plummer to do what no one since Elway has done?

There are some interesting issues about how this division is built. For example, none of the starting quarterbacks was a home-grown first-round selection. Brees was the first pick of Round 2 in 2001, and Plummer, Trent Green and Kerry Collins come from other places. Compare that to the AFC South, where all four starting quarterbacks still play for the teams who chose them in Round 1.

The AFC West generated more passing yards from their four starting signal-callers than any other division with 15,334 yards, yet the division had only one wide receiver finish in the top 20 in the league in receptions -- Denver's Rod Smith. Moss should change that in one year's time.

This division is the home of the best tight ends in football. Tony Gonzalez and Antonio Gates combined for 183 receptions and 20 touchdowns. Every team in the AFC West better have excellent strong safeties who can cover, or these two men are going to put up big numbers again in 2005.

When you think about defense in the AFC West, it really comes down to San Diego and Denver playing excellent run defense and adequate pass defense. San Diego went 5-1 in the division last year and held division opponents under 20 points in four of those six games.

Last season, the Chiefs and Raiders were down at the bottom of the league in total defense. They have the old AFL reputation of trying to outscore opponents, which makes for some exciting football on Sundays.

The Chargers emphasized defense in the draft, and the addition of Shawne Merriman and Luis Castillo will help the strongest unit in the division. Denver also didn't sit still. It drafted three cornerbacks with its first three picks and brought in most of Cleveland's defensive line during the free-agency period.

Where the Chargers really separated themselves from the rest of the division last season was in turnover ratio. San Diego had a plus-15, which equates to one extra possession per game. The other three teams were horrible in 2004. The defenses in Oakland (minus-17), Denver (minus-9), and Kansas City (minus-7) were not aggressive in trying to take the ball away, and the offenses didn't protect the ball.

Chiefs players tell me there is a big emphasis on creating turnovers, which was one of the big reasons the Chiefs won the division back in 2003 (plus-19). If Plummer and Collins cut their interceptions down from a league-worst 20 each, then both teams will improve.

When I looked at the Chargers closely, a couple of things jumped out at me. The margin of victory was close in a three-game stretch of division games around Thanksgiving last year (Oakland 23-17, Kansas City 34-31 and Denver 20-17).

Some people would like to believe that will not happen again, but that might be wishful thinking. Last year, LaDainian Tomlinson, arguably the best offensive player in the division, rushed for over 100 yards in only two division games, missed one game, and scored only five times in six division games. The Chargers found other ways to win, and no one should expect Tomlinson to repeat that production again in 2005.

* I believe the Raiders will get a big season from Jordan, and Moss will create problems for every opponent, but teams trying to outscore opponents to compensate for their questionable defenses don't go far.
* Denver will see a more efficient Plummer, but should land up in the same spot it has the past four years -- second place and fighting for a wild card.
* Kansas City will have a better defense, but the offense is getting a bit long in the tooth. One or two key injuries to those seven starters in their 30s, and they will struggle. I hope they stay healthy for Dick Vermeil, who is trying to bring his third different team to a Super Bowl.
* The Chargers play defense, win the turnover battles, have a great running back and have the most unusual quarterback situation -- Brees on a franchise tag after a Pro Bowl season and Philip Rivers right behind him. Throw in Gates and they have the most team balance.

History says there will be a new division champion again this year. I think I'll buck the history factor and look for the Chargers to repeat.

Posted: **Thu Aug 25, 2005 12:38 am**

KC Paul 3.0 wrote:Possible, yet highly doubtful. :wink:

HIGHLY doubtly?? :?

Please explain as only you can Paul....on second thought..never mind

Posted: **Thu Aug 25, 2005 12:51 am**

Can the high-powered Chiefs offense get any support from their defense now that they have added a number of free agents?

Absorutely...

No more running off into the night screaming hysterically.... ArrgggHHH!!!.... this year after yet another abysmal defensive performance that curdles even the thickest DotRF blood.

Nope, that's not going to happen.

All I want for Christmas is a top 15 defense. That's not too much to ask, is it?

That, and for Trent to remain upright the entire season.

If those two things happen, the rest the AFC West can mail it in, fucko's.

Posted: **Thu Aug 25, 2005 12:53 am**

Any team that can run the ball and play defense will have a chance on nearly every Sunday in this league.

Plus I love Merriman as a pass rusher, attitude problems be damned dude can rush the passer and I wish he was playing for Denver. He may be a liability in coverage this year but when he gets it down watch the fuck out.

Its Denver/San Diego for the AFC West title this year IMO.

Posted: **Thu Aug 25, 2005 1:10 am**

All I hear is how the KC defense will be improved, my question is has the D-line improved?

I think the answer is NOT. DT Ryan Simms has yet to play like a 1st rd pick and is approaching bust status. Carlos Hall's best year was a few years back when he played on a talented Titans Dline that allowed him to be single covered. Jared Allen a decent pass rusher coming off an injury last year who is inconsistent vs. the run. Hicks? Siavii?

I won't matter who are the LB's and secondary if the Dline is pancaked. The main rap on Derrick Johnson was he didn't fight through blocks well. He'll be thoroughly tested this year.

Dana what's your take on the KC Dline, and how do you see the defense shaping up?

Posted: **Thu Aug 25, 2005 1:12 am**

icantstopfarting wrote:Any team that can run the ball and play defense will have a chance on nearly every Sunday in this league.

Brilliant!

Nobody woulda' ever thunk it.

Its Denver/San Diego for the AFC West title this year IMO.

"IMO"?

You mean the first part of that sentence wasn't "IMO"?

Thanks for clarifying that that was your "IMO". For a second there, I thought that was R-James or 'tarts "IMO", and that really fucked me up.

I feel much better now knowing that that was icantstopfarting's "IMO"

Posted: **Thu Aug 25, 2005 1:17 am**

DT Ryan Simms has yet to play like a 1st rd pick and is approaching bust status

Know whats funny about that?

Back when he was drafted reports were that Minnesota doing everything they could to trade up and get him. They wound up "settling" for Kevin Williams instead who is looking more and more like a pro bowler every day.

Sometimes the best trades are the ones you don't make.

Once again, scouts value size and speed over who simply is the better football player.

Posted: **Thu Aug 25, 2005 1:17 am**

Joe in PB wrote: Dana what's your take on the KC Dline, and how do you see the defense shaping up?

Send him a PM then, fag.

Sheesh.

Posted: **Thu Aug 25, 2005 1:21 am**

Not many posters increase in SUCK the more they post. Congrats Wags you've broken another barrier.

Posted: **Thu Aug 25, 2005 1:24 am**

War Wagon wrote:
icantstopfarting wrote:Any team that can run the ball and play defense will have a chance on nearly every Sunday in this league.
Brilliant!

Nobody woulda' ever thunk it.

Its Denver/San Diego for the AFC West title this year IMO.
"IMO"?

You mean the first part of that sentence wasn't "IMO"?

Thanks for clarifying that that was your "IMO". For a second there, I thought that was R-James or 'tarts "IMO", and that really fucked me up.

I feel much better now knowing that that was icantstopfarting's "IMO"

buwahahaha!!

Fetch...roll over....play dead

Calling that attempt at smack a reach would be generous on my part.

I get the fact that you are still upset that our last little tustle didn't go so well for ya but get over it snookums.

You got rolled, I'm still here and I'm still talking football while you follow me around like a bitch in heat crying to anyone who will listen.

Notice how I didn't bother mentioning your ahem....career choice?

It's time for football chat Wagon so stop crying for fucks sakes. Regular season is nearly here so start fucking talking football or scurry your rodent ass back to main street with the rest of the tards.

Posted: **Thu Aug 25, 2005 1:28 am**

Joe in PB wrote:All I hear is how the KC defense will be improved, my question is has the D-line improved?

Can like anyone other than like Dana answer your question, or did you already fire off that PM?

I think the answer is NOT. DT Ryan Simms has yet to play like a 1st rd pick and is approaching bust status. Carlos Hall's best year was a few years back when he played on a talented Titans Dline that allowed him to be single covered. Jared Allen a decent pass rusher coming off an injury last year who is inconsistent vs. the run. Hicks? Siavii?

Hicks is playing well within the scheme.

Jared Allen injured is news to me.

Jury is still out on Sims, but it's put up or shut up time.

Carlos Hall has yet to see signifigant action.

Siavi needs work. Much work.

You forgot about John Browning.

Yawn.

Joe, the least of this teams defensive problems last year were at the D-line, so why you harping on that?

Posted: **Thu Aug 25, 2005 1:39 am**

Joe in PB wrote:Not many posters increase in SUCK the more they post. Congrats Wags you've broken another barrier.

Oops, sorry.

Did that reservation you had with Dana at the Holiday Inn fall thru?

Seriously.

Posted: **Thu Aug 25, 2005 1:56 am**

..... the least of this teams defensive problems last year were at the D-line, so why you harping on that?

Sincerely,

31st in yards given up per gm
29th avg gain per rush
32nd in pass yds per gm
29th in 3rd down efficiency

2004 Grief Defense

Posted: **Thu Aug 25, 2005 1:59 am**

icantstopfarting wrote: Calling that attempt at smack a reach would be generous on my part.

I'm not generous to dumbassses like you who reflect a shitty lack of judgement, like glossing themselves icstf.

I get the fact that you are still upset that our last little tustle didn't go so well for ya but get over it snookums.

We had a tussle? Who are you again? Nevermind.

I don't "tussle" with a guy who advertises that he can't stop farting, and then is too damned stupid to realize the infraction on decorum. Get yourself some X-large depends, 'cause nobody here is going to wipe that soiled ass.

You got rolled, I'm still here and I'm still talking football while you follow me around like a bitch in heat crying to anyone who will listen.

I'm not following you 'tard, and obviously, you haven't rolled anybody.

Notice how I didn't bother mentioning your ahem....career choice?

Being your teacher? Good thing you didn't mention it, 'cause it's a thankless job.

Oh, you meant driving a forklift. Wow, that really hurts my feelings.

It's time for football chat Wagon so stop crying for fucks sakes. Regular season is nearly here so start fucking talking football or scurry your rodent ass back to main street with the rest of the tards.

Some re-edumacation of your dumbass will be taking place first.

Posted: **Thu Aug 25, 2005 3:43 pm**

From Fanball.com:

Chiefs: Bell still iffy

The News:
Linebacker Kendrell Bell was penciled in for his Chiefs' debut early this week, but his status for this Saturday's exhibition game against the Seahawks is still questionable due to a balky shoulder, the Kansas City Star reports.

Our View
The Chiefs have played it extremely safe with Bell thus far. We're beginning to worry about his game conditioning.

A LB with a balky shoulder?

Bwhaha looks like another Grief defensive FA BUST!

Posted: **Thu Aug 25, 2005 8:32 pm**

PFW AFC West Final TC Report

Denver

Veteran to watch: Jerry Rice was elevated to #3 WR in mid August. He’s had a solid camp and the Broncos could use more consistency from that role than they got last year.

Rookie watch: 2nd rder Darrent Williams was believed to be more of a project at CB, but he has filled in admirably in the starting lineup with Champ Bailey nursing a sore hamstring and has put his return skills on display as well.

Injury update: Oft-injured Courtney Brown (elbow) missed almost all of camp but is expected back for the final preseason game. Bailey, RB Maurice Clarrett and DT Gerald Warren have missed significant practice time.

Strongest position: Easily Denver’s LBers take the title. Speed, versatility, and hard hitting – they bring it all.

Weakest position: On a pretty solid roster Oline is called out. While the starting group is pretty solid as usual quality depth is lacking.

Kansas City

Veteran to watch: The soreness in Trent Green’s throwing arm is something that bears watching, but reserve CB Dexter McCleon will be under the biggest spotlight until starter Eric Warfield returns from suspension in week 5.

Rookie watch: 1st rd pick Derrick Johnson has all the makings of something special at strong-side LB. He will be counted on to make many plays for a revamped LB corpse.

Injury update: The Chiefs are a bruised and battered bunch and TC is barely half over. New LB Kendrall Bell has been brought along slowly with a bum shoulder, while TE Tony Gonzalez (foot, finger) is practicing only half the time. OG Will Shields (back) had yet to take part in a full practice as of presstime. DT Junior Siavii, WR Freddie Mitchell, DT John Browning and OT Kevin Sampson have been slowed by injury. Don’t be surprised if several of these ailments linger into the regular season.

Strongest position: Even with Shield and Sampson hurting, the Chiefs’ offensive line is still viewed as one of the best. With the way Larry Johnson performed in place of Priest Holmes last year RB would be a close 2nd.

Weakest position: The DL is really devoid of any true difference makers, and a lack of a consistent pass rush from the front four could make life miserable for the secondary.

Oakland

Veteran to watch: FS Stuart Schweigert, in just his 2nd year, will step into a starting role for the RaiDuhs’ at a position usually reserved for experienced vets in Oakland. Mistakes will need to be limited on a defense with plenty of question marks.

Rookie watch: 3rd rder Kirk Morrison picked up the defense quickly and has been manning the strong side LB spot basically since his arrival. He is a versatile defender who can play any of the LB roles.

Injury update: The Duhs’ received a serious blow when LB/DE Sam Williams suffered a torn anterior cruciate ligament last week. WR Jerry Porter missed 3 weeks with a pulled hamstring but was expected back at presstime. WR Ronald Curry is showing progress coming off Achilles surgery.

Strongest position: When you add the games ultimate playmaker in Randy Moss to a group of WR’s that include Porter and the steadily improving Curry it makes opposing defenses take notice.

Weakest position: The LB corpse really struggled last season and then was dealt a major setback when Williams went down. Switching to more 4-3 looks will help cover up some issues here, but beyond Danny Clark and Morrison, the cupboard is bare.

San Diego

Veteran to watch: WR Reche Caldwell looked to be shedding the bust label and really coming into his own in his 3rd year until torn knee ligaments cut his promising season short in week six. If Caldwell proves he is back to full strength, it would be a big boost for the WR corps and Drew Brees.

Rookie watch: 1st rd pick Shawne Merriman is the easy choice because his specialty is what the Chargers need most – the ability to pressure the QB. Skipping the teams offseason program didn’t help, however, nor has the hamstring and toe trouble that has slowed him in camp.

Injury update: The teams first 3 picks Merriman, DL Luis Castillo (ankle) and WR Vincent Jackson (Achilles) have missed some valuable practice time.

Strongest position: The Chargers starting LB corps – Ben Leber, Donnie Edwards, Randall Godfrey and Steve Foley were outstanding in 2004 and a big reason the switch to the 3-4 was so successful for first-year defensive coordinator wade Philips. The depth behind them is solid, and now Merriman enters the fray this fall to aid the pass rush.

Weakest position: On a team without a lot of glaring weaknesses, the FS position is a spot that leaves a little something to be desired. While Jerry Wilson and Bhawoh Jue are serviceable, the coaching staff would like to see more plays made from this position.

Posted: **Fri Aug 26, 2005 4:09 pm**

San Diego's weakest link is their head coach- possibly the worst place for a weak link to be.

Posted: **Fri Aug 26, 2005 5:22 pm**

Rampant Myopia wrote:Nope- I've effectively shot down every point of your take.

Uhhh..we'll be the judge of that..

sin

The rest of the AFC West.

Posted: **Fri Aug 26, 2005 5:25 pm**

ChargerMike wrote:
Rampant Myopia wrote:Nope- I've effectively shot down every point of your take.
Uhhh..we'll be the judge of that..

sin

The rest of the AFC West and the Dallas Cowboys .

FTFY

Posted: **Fri Aug 26, 2005 11:32 pm**

....particularly DT Ryan Sims.......Sims has been UNBLOCKABLE in the 1st two preseason games thus far......

That may be true Paul but knowlegable fans understand the Vikings were without center Matt Birk who is to undergo hip surgery and the Cardinals were without starting center Alex Stepanovich, who broke his snapping hand earlier this month.

In other words it might be a bit early to anoint Sims as improved let alone UNBLOCKABLE. What a surprise...... :wink:

Posted: **Sat Aug 27, 2005 2:54 pm**

KC Paul 3.0 wrote:Sims has been UNBLOCKABLE in the 1st two preseason games...

...we now have arguably one of the fastest and BEST LB corps in the NFL...

...the ONLY secondary I see that's better talent-wise than us in the AFC now is the Ravens.

Holy shit! And you're only calling for a top-fifteen defense?

With UNBLOCKABLE linemen, one of the BEST LB corps in the NFL and (only) the second-best secondary in the AFC (props for the modicum of restraint on that, BTW) I'd say da 85 Bears alums are going to be keeping a close eye on you boys this season.

Posted: **Sun Aug 28, 2005 5:55 am**

^^^^^^^^^^^^^

What if a team's fans are the weakest link as is clearly the case in Kansas City?

Posted: **Sun Aug 28, 2005 6:24 am**

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

what if--->somebody stated that its only Pre-Season?????

the Board is FULL of MYOPIANSavante's.

weakest LINK is defined around week 3 or 4....unless you are the BROWNS or 49'ers...or Correll Buckhalter's Knee....or even maybe being an inside SNITCH placed at Ravens CAMP.

Posted: **Sun Aug 28, 2005 7:14 am**

the Board is FULL of MYOPIANSavante's.

All except me.

I realize the Cards aren't going to the Super Bowl until next season.

Posted: **Sun Aug 28, 2005 8:04 pm**

KC Paul 3.0 wrote:This JUST in: the Chiefs' starting defense (minus Kendrell Bell and Eric Warfield) held the SeaHags' Shaun Alexander to 23 yards on 12 carries.

But they didn't improve over last season. :roll:

UH......356 yards passing? Over 250+ for Seattle's starting QB and 2 TDs, no picks. Yep, you have improved vastly. :roll:

Posted: **Sun Aug 28, 2005 11:45 pm**

Jay Glazer's take:

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/4815578

Different take

After spending two days at Charger camp, I've flipped my view of this team. Previously I felt they would not be able to match last year's production, especially with the out-of-this-world output by quarterback Drew Brees. Now I'm looking at them as if this will be a hard team to screw up.

Championships are won with great defense and a great running game. San Diego boasts perhaps the best running back in the game in Tomlinson along with an All-Pro tight end in Antonio Gates.

But I love their defense. The front seven is as strong as any I've seen and they upgraded with the drafting of first-rounders Shawn Merriman and Luis Castillo. If either rookie can contribute and the secondary could improve to adequate, San Diego will be a tough team this season.

Posted: **Mon Aug 29, 2005 4:27 am**

mvscal wrote:
Diogenes wrote:the Board is FULL of MYOPIANSavante's.

All except me.

I realize the Cards aren't going to the Super Bowl until the Bidwells no longer have anything to do with the team.
Fixed

Must have have been reading my posts on the subject for the last few years.

Posted: **Mon Aug 29, 2005 5:20 am**

Joe in PB wrote:Jay Glazer's take:

The Raiders and Cheifs shold be optimistic this season,

I hope the guys making the spreads read Glazer faithfully.

I can see me down in Caliente taking the points against his picks all season.

Posted: **Mon Aug 29, 2005 11:19 pm**

KC Paul 3.0 wrote:
TRannysEX wrote:
KC Paul 3.0 wrote:This JUST in: the Chiefs' starting defense (minus Kendrell Bell and Eric Warfield) held the SeaHags' Shaun Alexander to 23 yards on 12 carries.

But they didn't improve over last season. :roll:
UH......356 yards passing? Over 250+ for Seattle's starting QB and 2 TDs, no picks. Yep, you have improved vastly. :roll:
Yup, Hasselbeck really tore it up....largely against the scrubs NOT starting.

Take yer bet-welching sorry ASS back where you came from, piss-ant.

Nice comeback.....let's see...excuse then.....insult....attempted insult....

You haven't grown up at all.......on the inside....have you?

Posted: **Tue Aug 30, 2005 3:16 am**

:!:

Paully and REX...clean it up please.

rehashing things that happened 2 years ago doesn't help this Forum or this Thread.

thank you

Posted: **Tue Aug 30, 2005 4:12 am**

mvscal wrote:Gotta respect that Queeffan myopia. It is utterly impregnable to logic or reason.

Yes, I'm sure your defense will be just fine. Can't imagine what all these critics have against it.

They just don't understand...

I'd wager in real life your a lot like you avater - Andy Kauffman.

A small strange little man who spent the majority of his scholastic life stuffed into a locker or drinking toilet water with a hair style worthy of a flock of seagulls.

My guess is unlike Andy you'll never get your 15 minutes (though your delusions of granduer will tell you T1B counts) and find yourself beaten down my manish women and enjoying it.

BTWm INS called, they wanna check your green card

Posted: **Tue Aug 30, 2005 11:27 pm**

Qbert wrote::!:

Paully and REX...clean it up please.

rehashing things that happened 2 years ago doesn't help this Forum or this Thread.

thank you

Heard. Just trying to point out that KC's revamped defense is still swiss.

Posted: **Thu Sep 01, 2005 1:44 am**

KC Paul 3.0 wrote: Only you haven't actually PROVED IT.

Thanks for playing.

from http://www.kansascity.com

Posted on Tue, Aug. 30, 2005

Preseason losses aren’t critical, but …

Chiefs weigh pluses and minuses of zero

By ADAM TEICHER

The Kansas City Star

The Chiefs have had one winless preseason, and it led to a regular season only slightly better. In 2000, they lost all four exhibition games, and the season that followed was such a disaster that when it was over, they fired their head coach, Gunther Cunningham.

Uhhhhh, your own paper doesn't think you have improved. Listen, your defense has given up third most in the AFC during the preseason. Your pass defense still looks.....well, not so good. You are freaking 0-3! Proven? That's funny. I don't need to PROVE anything while your team takes the field and sucks. Sorry dude, but come on.

Posted: **Thu Sep 01, 2005 10:55 am**

I guess it will be a work in progress then. Welcome to the KC sucks project culminated over 17 weeks of NFL football. Hypothesis: Their defense will suck. See ongoing proof every sunday.

T1B

If a team is only as strong as their weakest link.......

If a team is only as strong as their weakest link.......