T1B

I didn't want to post anything after the Pitt game because I firmly believed that there was no reason Notre Dame should lose that game. I expected ND to beat Pitt, and I expected them to beat them badly. So Weis passed my initial test. He had his team well prepared to play Pitt and beat the soundly.

Before the season started, I was optimistic about ND's chances against most of their schedule. I had placed a ton of faith in Weis without ever seeing him coach a game at ND, and this was due in large part to the way he conducted the offseason. If you have watched the football program over the past 8 years, you would know that neither of the two before him came close to approaching his intensity on the recruiting trail or his understanding of the University and it's mission. So he basically said and did the right things.

After last week, I was confident that ND would win at UofM not only because of ND's offense and UofM's defense, but because UofM typically loses to teams with superior coaching. Leaving Carr and Weis out of it, ND has the better coaches at most every position, excluding possibly QB coach and offensive line coach, and even there it's a toss-up.

After ND won the game, all be it in a completely different manner than I thought, I now firmly believe that Weis will have ND back among the elite sooner rather than later. I know most of you will roll your eyes and say, "They started 8-0 under Willingham" or "Even Davie beat UofM", and you would be right. The difference is that neither of them beat UofM at home, where Carr had a record of 59-6 before Saturday. Even after the 8-0 start, I was still skepticall of Willingham because he won games by having a freakishly good turnover ratio, and by playing great defense. He never proved that he could beat a good team straight up where the other team didn't give ND chance after chance to win the game. So, unless either of the two coaches are brought up here, I will never speak of them again. The Davieham era is officially closed.*

On to this weekend. Babs, lay out the terms of your bet right now. You said before the season started that you wanted a sig bet, so let's do it. You were very confident that MSU would kick ND's ass. Time to put your money where your mouth is.

It's fun waking up looking forward to Saturday and knowing your team will win.

waiting for babs to crawl out from the fetal position in 3...2...1...


fucking ND will gang rape MSU...the only time a year I cheer for ND (sorry Killian)...

The Mighty Quinn is gonna give the MSU Def the "shocker."

Fucking Weiss is the man. I've been rooting for Him and Brady (Tom, not Quinn) during his stint with the Pats. I can't believe I have to hate him now. ND is going to be very good very soon. You gotta like his odds when he gets his kids to run his scheme over the next few years.

Congrats ND. You're in good hands.

Over under on Weiss going back to the pros is now set at the end of next season. That will drop again given this weekends win over MSU.

Left Seater wrote:Over under on Weiss going back to the pros is now set at the end of next season. That will drop again given this weekends win over MSU.

I don't know if you are kidding or not, but I think with this new administration, they would make it very hard for Weis to leave. They will pay their coaches, unlike the previous administration.

I like Weis and I like the Irish, but man the media needs to calm the fuck down about Notre Dame.

Kirk Herbstreit said before the Michigan game on Saturday "Charlie Weis will build a dynasty at Notre Dame".

Seriously, the dude has coached one game. Nobody deserves that kind of hype.

Jimmy Medalions wrote: Seriously, the dude has coached one game. Nobody deserves that kind of hype.

Yeah, luckily that has never happend w/r/t ND.

Sin,
Ron Powlus

I agree completely Jimmy. I love Weis, and I think he is coaching the hell out of his players, but they are not a top 10 team yet. If they are undefeated going into the USC game, they will be somewhere in the top 5, maybe even as high as #3 and USC still should be favored by 13 points.

To Herbie's credit, he is the only one who said the Irish would be worth a damn this year.

One benifit to seeing ND win is that it pains TREX so.

I hate to say this....but this is the kind of game MSU wins.

^^ what I was thinking too

Killian,

My comment is based on comments by Weiss back when he had his stomach stapled a few years ago. A sports station in PVD asked him if he might consider a HC position in college to pad his resume for a HC position in the NFL. He said he absolutely would, and further that he was an NFL guy thru and thru.

Now granted that was a few years ago and people can and do change their mind, but I don't think he is done in the NFL.

MSU probably has the best offense in the conference now that Stanton is finally healthy, ND may win but it will be a tight one.

Killian wrote:
It's fun waking up looking forward to Saturday and knowing your team will win.

i remember that feeling.

i was impressed with ND--though UM played much better in the 2nd half than 1st. the Irish were really (clichee warning) flying around and 3-4 guys around the ball making tackles.

and Lloyd Carr is seriously a pimp wit dem sunglasses on....i thought i was gonna bust out singing "Old Time Rock and Roll" and start dancing around in my briefs.

Left Seater wrote:Over under on Weiss going back to the pros is now set at the end of next season. That will drop again given this weekends win over MSU.

Who knows, maybe you're right, but at least right now, Weis is saying all the right things about staying. According to Weis, this is his last job in coaching, and he'll stay at least until his kids graduate from college (don't know if this'll happen or not, that would require him to stay 10 years at ND, and coaches notoriously don't last terribly long here). He has said that the NFL had its chance to give him a head coaching job, and now it's too late.

Please don't call out Babs...the message boards have been so much better without him.

The Irish will win but the Spartans will cover...ND 28, MSU 24

Danimal wrote:MSU probably has the best offense in the conference now that Stanton is finally healthy, ND may win but it will be a tight one.

Babs? Is that you?

From having seen the game in person...

Bar none, UM was responsible for the worst playcalling I have seen from a supposed major college football program. Third-and-goal at the five and you run two fade patterns to Avant? (one of which ended up in the crowd, I think) That's the best you can do? I also liked the successive QB sneaks. It's not like that Grady kid who was in for Hart at HB is built like a freight train or anything.

Somewhere, John Cooper is wondering how the hell Lloyd Carr owned his ass all those years.

I'm still not sold on ND. Their offensive philosophy and playcalling was far above what UM was equipped to handle, but Quinn's lack of accuracy would have killed them against a team that was spending it's afternoon thinking of new uses for shower rods. Even some of the passes he completed required adjustments by the receivers that nullified big gains. I do like the way they bring the heat on the D-line, though, rushing upfield from the ends. I counted at least five plays where Henne was forced to backpedal furiously as he was throwing in the flat. Or maybe those were plays designed by the brilliant Lloyd Carr.

One big RACK for ND, however, is its attitude. Weis's boys came in and were ALL business from the get-go. If and when this team loses, it won't be for a lack of focus.

GreginPG wrote:

Danimal wrote:MSU probably has the best offense in the conference now that Stanton is finally healthy, ND may win but it will be a tight one.

Babs? Is that you?

Hey I don't call you names.

Just because Babs is a boardbitch doesn't mean Babs's team can't have a dangerous offense.

babs can't talk or type...his mouth is secured around stanton's cock and his hands are feeling the wonderful turf that MSU claims BODE on...


again only time of the year I cheer for ND (again sorry killian)

ND 27
MSU 10

Danimal wrote:

GreginPG wrote:

Danimal wrote:MSU probably has the best offense in the conference now that Stanton is finally healthy, ND may win but it will be a tight one.

Babs? Is that you?

Hey I don't call you names.

Just because Babs is a boardbitch doesn't mean Babs's team can't have a dangerous offense.

Hey I didn't mean to call you names. It's just that we haven't seen Babs in here and I thought that maybe someone's posting id/password had been hijacked. You never know around here. I can understand why you're upset.

I apologize.

My thoughts on Weis and the ND coaching staff, with the caveat that only two games are in and there's still a long way to go:

First, I agree with Killian that I thought ND would beat Pitt. But I had some concern given the fact that the media, almost to a man, were predicting the opposite going in. As has been stated on another thread, I think there was too much love going in for Wannstedt, and who knows why.

So far, I'm impressed overall, but most especially with two units: offensive line and special teams. The O-line, which has been a weakness for us in recent years, has certainly blossomed this year, and it's formidable both with the running game and in pass protection. Special teams were an absolute killer last year, despite the fact that special teams had been the hallmark of ND football during the Holtz era. This year I see huge improvement. Last year against Pitt, we kicked off seven times, and I think Pitt returned each kickoff past their own 35. This year, not one kickoff against Michigan, and I don't think any against Pitt either, have been returned past the opponents' 30. And I still maintain that as badly as we played against BYU last year, we had a chance to win that game but for one bonehead special teams play: McKnight fair-catching a punt at the 1 (in fairness, this might not have been on the coaches, as McKnight should have learned that one long before he got to ND).

One huge difference in Weis' offensive scheme has been his use of the TE and RB's as receivers (Fasano was the forgotten man in ND's offense last year). This undoubtedly has helped Quinn in his development. Quinn continues to improve, but hasn't yet developed into the absolute stud I thought he'd become. But at least he's doing a better job of shaking off the occasional mistake this year. Walker has answered my question as to whether he is capable of being an every-down back at ND. But I shudder to think what might happen if either of them goes out with an injury for any appreciable length of time.

The defense was expected to be the weaker unit this year, but against Michigan it proved it was still up to the task of preserving a win against a quality opponent, even in a game where our offensive production was not up to par.

Having said all of that, I still see some things I don't like. I think the offense got way too conservative against Michigan in the second half, and it showed in terms of our offensive production in that half. And Stovall and McKnight are still both head-scratchers to me. Both are productive, but both have potential to be game-breakers, and neither has lived up to that potential. And I'm not sure what effects McKnight will suffer from that knee injury against Michigan, although it may have looked worse than it really was.

I think a BCS bid is a possibility this year, but the schedule is a killer and leaves absolutely no margin for error. We don't have the horses to beat USC. And I don't think a 9-2 mark will get us into the BCS this year, so we'll have to beat both Purdue and Tennessee to get into the BCS. Also, Weis and his staff will have to beat the teams we should beat this year. Without a doubt in my mind, losing to BYU, Fredo and Pitt -- all winnable games against opponents we should have beaten -- last year cost Ty his job. If we had won those games, we would have finished 9-2. At 9-2 with wins over Michigan and Tennessee, we probably would've had a Top 10 finish in the final BCS poll, and with Utah finishing #6, that would have put us into the BCS. No way Ty would have lost his job had that happened.

Come to think of it, as bad as things seemed to be during Ty's tenure, when you come right down to it, there were only a total of four losses, by a combined total of 16 points, that separated us from two BCS bids during Ty's tenure. To me that's a sign that we weren't nearly as far away, going into this season, as many thought, and I think Weis can get us there.

Killian:

but because UofM typically loses to teams with superior coaching.

RACK that!!!

I have been saying that for the last 5 years, both on these boards and amongst friends and family and always got shouted down.

I know this a ND thread and props to the Domers for whacking Michigan, however, a some latitude, please.

How often have we seen a Lloyd Carr team, loaded with talent on both sides, lose a game based only on game planning? Last year it was Texas and OSU just to name a few. How do you not game Young? How do you not have a primary plan to stop the guy, or, alternatively, if you're only trying to minimze his impact, how do you not have a secondary plan to deal with him when he starts tearing you up. Michigan should have won that game and didn't only because Carr and his staff could not even slow that guy down.

The way I see, and I am UM homer...we should have seen at least 2 undefeated seasons over the last four years, but didn't, and I have blamed it solely on Llyod Carr. I think it rests there for a few reasons:

--playcalling - in nearly every game you have seen the entire Michigan playbook by the middle of what would be the second quarter. There's only a handful of plays and to "spice it up" they simply reverses left-to-right. That's the reason why:

--red-zone ineptness follows this team. Michigan simply cannot score in the red zone. It's a combination of a lack of imagination on the part of the coaching staff, but also an attitude issue.

--defense. For all the platitudes that Michigan has gotten the last several years you'd think this team could shut down or at least contain the best players they face. Wrong. It's all bullshit. It's all reputation and no meat. Thisis easily observed when watching a Florida State, Miami, VT, or USC defense that is big and fast just turn it on and start lighting it up. Michigan simply cannot do that as their defensive scheme doesn't allow for it.

Also, and we saw this again in the ND game, specifically, ND's first score...when is Michigan going to actually coach it's defense backs to play pressure defense? I mean, who didn't know that the reciever was going to simply go one yard deep into the end zone, turn, and catch the ball...yet, the Michigan defender gave the guy four yards and you could see he was turning his back already.

I could go on...but the bottom line is this...Carr has been a major liability for this program.

I know, I know...the guy has gone 10-1 and 9-2 how many seasons in a row now and why am I complaining...

I am complaining because Carr simply is not a tier one coach and it's reflected in these types of losses where game planning costs the team the game.

Dr. D,

I think it is mainly a result of learning under/working with Bo. Bo never shot for the national championship. For him, the Rose Bowl and Big 10 championship is all that mattered. Look at Carr's OCC record against teams not from the MAC. It's something like 3-8. But his Big 10 record has been very good.

Carr seems to be too hands off with his team and more content to just be the face plate of the program. That's fine if you have stellar assistants. It worked very well for FSU when they had Richt. But when one of your assistants is a bad coach, in this case Herrmann, you will continue to lose games you shouldn't. All ND love aside, UofM should have won that game.

Hopefully for UofM Carr steps down soon and Martin has the balls to hire the most qualified successor, not the most qualified successor with UofM ties.

You're absolutely right about Bo...his bowl record cements that sentiment.

It seems that Hermann is a god to UM fans. Never figured that one out, except that it's a perspective shared by the dolts on ESPN's GameDay and among college football writers that I read.

I don't know whether Carr is hands-off or not. My perception doesn't really take that into consideration. He's the head coach and he's responsibile for the broader game strategy. If he ain't setting that tone than he's negligent. If he is, then he's as much to blame as the assistants who don't seem to have any imagination at all when it comes to play calling.

But I do agree with you that Michigan must make a break with Bo's legacy and hire someone without UM ties.

And, yes, Michigan clearly, I thought, was the better team than ND going into that game. I can't believe they were held to merely 10 points and while credit is due to the ND defense for playing well, I think that deficiency rests more with the coaching than with the defensive play of ND.

DrDetroit wrote:......

i think i'm finally coming around to dr. d's view on this, though i can at least admit i've never been a herrmann fan. actually, i think my primary defense of carr over the years has been, "they're hiring from within, and herrmann's next in line.." i didn't watch the game, but i can imagine what it looked like from all the previous big games michigan's had. i don't necessarily find the michigan playbook all that unimaginative, it's just that carr approaches ohio state and notre dame dogmatically: close to the vest.. can't afford to take a chance.. this game will be determined by yards between the tackles, turnovers, and not the final score.. seriously, good minnesota, iowa, or wisconsin teams come in and we fuck them up b/c we play loose. someone mentions nd or osu and carr needs to run home and get a new diaper on.

as for young/rose bowl, we haven't stopped a mobile qb since 1902, and that's b/c forward passes weren't allowed.

i didn't watch the game, but i can imagine what it looked like from all the previous big games michigan's had.

Yep. The usual ineffective running game. I swear, UM used to rack up the yards on the ground with Bo, but have never approached Nebraska's output (even acknowledging that NU would run the ball 90% of the time), but UM rarely matched OK, USC, etc., either. WTF is the problem? I chalk it up to lack of imagination when it comes to actual play design. It's amazing the night and day differences between how FSU, Miami, USC run their blocking schemes and how UM does it.

It seems UM just goes with straight-ahead blocking relying on pure size, strength, and power instead of openning specific lanes for their backs.

seriously, good minnesota, iowa, or wisconsin teams come in and we fuck them up b/c we play loose.

But every year one of those teams does beat Michigan, including Northwestern. is there a philosophy at UM which prohibits scoring more than 25/28 points in a game. I Swear, these teams shouldn't be in a position to win if an Anthony Thomas fumbles the ball (Northwestern, 2001). But UM just doesn't score very often, despite having the ability to wipe these teams out.

as for young/rose bowl, we haven't stopped a mobile qb since 1902, and that's b/c forward passes weren't allowed.

RACK!!! LOL!

The problem, though, is that UM could if it really wanted to. Why is it that teams like USC, Miami, Texas, OK, OSU, can all defend the mobile QB or spread offense with the same talent level UM has, yet UM horribly fails nearly every time?

These are coaching problems, plain and simple.

I remember cussing Carr out in 1997, 98, 99 despite UM having those great defenses. Remember how the DB's played? They always had their back to the QB, always turning before the WR made his first move and bam, the WR just cuts inside, picks up 8 yards. Hell, even Woodson did it.

And it happened, again, against ND last weekend on ND's first TD. UM's DB was already turning his back to the QB when the WR jogged one yard deep and caught the score.

pathetic.

^^^^^


welcome to our World


Sin,

tOSU fan from 88-2000


I actually was a John Cooper fan and supporter regardless of the records against scUM and what not. Fact is his teams would peak early...witness the ass rapings of ND early on in 95 and 96 and the plungering of PSU in 96 (which was a much more talented team than the 98 team IMHO), then the 98 team starts out punking everyone to lose mid-year. Cooper like Carr could get talent out of the ying yang...look at the UM and tOSU players from say 93-2000 that were drafted and what not...fucking studs everywhere...

my take:

these coaches while excellent recruiters and occassional winners of big games, could never get the kids to play as a TEAM consistently...for some reason Cooper would run home and crawl up in the fetal position when UM was mentioned (2-10-1 much?)...and in at least 3 of those games tOSU had what I would call superior talent (93, 95, 96)...I mean in 95 and 96 tOSU had the ball 6 FUCKING times inside the 10 yard line and scored a grand total of 18 points...yep that's right with Eddie George in 95 and Pace et al in 96...

both of these coaches won many games...in fact like Pete said on another thread...Cooper had a .700+ winning PCT and got fucking fired...why? Couldn't win against his rival and couldn't win bowl games consistently...

currently tOSU has a coach who has owned Carr and Bowl games (3-1 in both) and gets his TEAM ready to play. Sure he is not the most imaginative, but damn tOSU is a solid team and could give anyone a run on any given day.

I don't know if I made any sense but I feel for Michigan fan in some ways...Carr is becoming Cooper...

Mack has that label...if Texas beats OU and gets to the MNC game then Mack would have beaten Michigan, tOSU, and OU, plus won a conference championship...that would help take away some of the sting...


just sayin'

WolverineSteve wrote:Fucking Weiss is the man. I've been rooting for Him and Brady (Tom, not Quinn) during his stint with the Pats. I can't believe I have to hate him now. ND is going to be very good very soon. You gotta like his odds when he gets his kids to run his scheme over the next few years.

Congrats ND. You're in good hands.

^ Christ.

All that, just because of one shithead of a stinker game by a true soph QB.
All of a sudden, the "FIGHTING" Irish are America's team, eh?!

Fuck you, Saints! We got "Chuckles", the wonder dick, Weis!! - And America's new Team!!!

Fuckin UM blew at LEAST 14 easy points, and has been RAPED by injuries, but ND and Weis are going to Pasadena, huh?! (And don't even get me started on the lucky assed deflected TD pass. My God.

Right.

The guys had 14 friggin coaching years in the NFL. The last 4 as a O-Coord. for the WORLDS CHAMPS.

Soon as this turd revamps ND to a couple bowels, he's GONE, people.
Ala Saban, and others. Get real.

Archive that shit.

MyTitsHurt wrote:Soon as this turd revamps ND to a couple bowels, he's GONE, people.
Ala Saban, and others. Get real.

Hi, Babs. I deleted most of the shit in your post, but I'll respond to what I left.

As I said before, Weis right now is saying all the right things about staying at ND. He has said that this job is his last job in coaching, and he plans on staying here at least until his kids graduate from college, which would mean that he'll be here at least 10 years. That might be a tad overconfident, given the fact that coaches notoriously don't last long at ND, but at least right now, he's saying that he's not interested in the NFL, that they had their chance to give him a head coaching job, but now it's too late.

Coaches can and do change their ambitions over time ('sup, Urban Meyer), so it's difficult to speculate on what someone will do a decade or so down the road. But going strictly on what he's saying right now, it would appear that Weis will be at ND as long as the administration wants him there, his health permits it, and he's still interested in coaching.

I used to stand up for Carr...but it's sparklingly clear that efficient, tactical coaching is far superior to stodgy, conservative, poorly-adjusting coaching. Carr is Paterno with better talent, and a meaner, baser streak. They are not among the better coaches in the game right now.

Babs, you're off Saban's jock now? There's a bit of progress...

PSUFAN wrote:I used to stand up for Carr...but it's sparklingly clear that efficient, tactical coaching is far superior to stodgy, conservative, poorly-adjusting coaching. Carr is Paterno with better talent, and a meaner, baser streak. They are not among the better coaches in the game right now.

Babs, you're off Saban's jock now? There's a bit of progress...

No, not really. I'm following the Dolphins.

Hey, Saban is a Michigan State protege'. He spent much of his coaching formative years here under G. Perles. Then, revamped our team to a ten win season; only some bastard UM fan got ahold of the inside info that Nick was taking the LSU job in spring 2000, and blew his gums off, so the AD at State had to let him go before the Bowl win over Florida, back in Jan. 2000. That shithead, Bobby Williams just stood back and watched Sabans studs dominate the Gators that day in their home state.

Now, we finally got a serious inovator on offense at our school, John L. Smith. All we need is a few more asskickers on defense, and we're a legit BCS Bowl contender.

You heard it here first, peeps.

Killian wrote:
On to this weekend. Babs, lay out the terms of your bet right now. You said before the season started that you wanted a sig bet, so let's do it. You were very confident that MSU would kick ND's ass. Time to put your money where your mouth is.

It's fun waking up looking forward to Saturday and knowing your team will win.

This is the joker that starts... a "Board Bitch" thread?

Looks like this clown needs to add himself to the conversation.

This pussy has yet to go borrow some balls, and come in after his team was beaten...

Pathetic.


m2

BlindRef wrote:I hate to say this....but this is the kind of game MSU wins.

...I hate when I'm right.

m2 wrote:

Killian wrote:
On to this weekend. Babs, lay out the terms of your bet right now. You said before the season started that you wanted a sig bet, so let's do it. You were very confident that MSU would kick ND's ass. Time to put your money where your mouth is.

It's fun waking up looking forward to Saturday and knowing your team will win.

This is the joker that starts... a "Board Bitch" thread?

Looks like this clown needs to add himself to the conversation.

This pussy has yet to go borrow some balls, and come in after his team was beaten...

Pathetic.


m2

I think he's trying his "Babs" imitation. Not sacking up after a tough loss.



He DID run a LOT of shit though, didn't he?

OH, and HindEndRef? - Theres even MORE of those games coming soon.

Stay tuned, bitch.

m2 wrote:This is the joker that starts... a "Board Bitch" thread?

Looks like this clown needs to add himself to the conversation.

This pussy has yet to go borrow some balls, and come in after his team was beaten...

Pathetic.


m2

I'm here, as I am after every win or loss. I don't post on the weekend. When you had your little apeshit meltdown after someone moved your thread, I stated it in there. On the weekend, I don't see this board.