Its a quagmire

[BSmack]

Chimpy is now reduced to begging for recruits.

Freakin pathetic.

[Buried_Nick]

I thought it was particularly funny how he kept saying how much better Iraq has gotten. Regaling us with all the upbeat news from the safe, secure, democratic Iraq. When to a man, almost everyone who returns from there
says otherwise.

Wierd.

[Tom In VA]

http://snuffy.lib.umn.edu/image/srch/bi ... d=msp02598 circa 1942

I guess as we were getting our asses handed to us in the Pacific and in North Africa, they felt the need to ask for more back then.


Did we give up ? Nope.


Perhaps he's looking give a "Few Good Men" a break from protecting our sorry asses "Over there".


Once again you calling this a quagmire is the equivalent of a soccor fan claiming the Steelers will never score a goal again.

[Bizzarofelice]

Once again you calling this a quagmire is the equivalent of a soccor fan claiming the Steelers will never score a goal again.

And your defense of it is less ridiculous?

[Tom In VA]

Once again you calling this a quagmire is the equivalent of a soccor fan claiming the Steelers will never score a goal again.

And your defense of it is less ridiculous?

Defense of it ? You looking for a clue or a glass dick or both ?


I'm not concluding it's a quagmire or not. But I can provide evidence of much worse situations in which the U.S. has found itself involved. Situations that perserverance, blood, sweat, and tears has brought the U.S. through.

What was it that you're bringing to the discussion again ?

[SunCoastSooner]

I thought it was particularly funny how he kept saying how much better Iraq has gotten. Regaling us with all the upbeat news from the safe, secure, democratic Iraq. When to a man, almost everyone who returns from there
says otherwise.

Wierd.

Funny thats not what my cousin on my mother's side says about it and he is an enlisted man serving in the Army in Baghdad.

That isn't what my cousin on my father's side stated to me before he lost his life passing out water to Iraqi children after being shot through the throat. :( (God Bless his soul for giving his life for something he believed in).

Its not what my best friend has said about it and he has had to kill a man with his bare hands there in combat.

Not what either of my uncles who are there in command of some of our young men tell me through email.


That is not what any of my father's associates (he's a retired USACAPOC Officer) say about it and they are FAR more informed on the matter than just about anyone on earth and if your familiar with Military acronyms you know that.

To a T I am willing to bet that all you people calling it a "quagmire" have never served not a day one in the military.

[Bizzarofelice]

But I can provide evidence of much worse situations in which the U.S. has found itself involved. Situations that perserverance, blood, sweat, and tears has brought the U.S. through.

By blood, sweat and tears, did you mean the blood of soldiers and the sweat of taxpayers and the tears of the families of soldiers kept twice as long as initially informed? There may have been situations more fucked than this one, but it doesn't mean we were pleased as punch to be there.

What was it that you're bringing to the discussion again ?

Clarity. I am speaking with the person who described this as a war to protect resorces, correct?

[Dr_Phibes]

And your defense of it is less ridiculous?

Haven't you noticed? It's all the rage on here these days - everyone strutting about bolt upright, twirling their mustaches and mumbling things about petrol supplies reaching the front in an orderly fashion?

[Bizzarofelice]

All the while overlooking generals saying that the insurgents are 95% Iraqi.

[Tom In VA]

Yes to all your questions. You're insane if you think anyone is "pleased as punch" to be there.

A buddy of mine was in Ranger school. He was bitching about the weather, cold weather training. Finally, one of his comrades told him ... "Thanks for the fucking INFO ... IT'S COLD, I'm cold, we're all cold, deal with it. You don't have to like it, but it would help if you did".

So you see, it's about the attitude. The situation is shitty as it is. People dying, people getting maimed, and people losing homes. But for Christ's sake, the biggest whiners and crybabies about it are the people that aren't even doing it.


Is it a quagmire ? I don't know, I don't have the experience to say one way or the other. What is a quagmire ? Was it a quagmire on D-Day, when some 3000 guys died ? In one day ?


Is this a war for resources ? We've danced that dance before. You and I, around the teepee while the warriors are out hunting for our villiage.

The simple resources for survival ought to be deep enough for you to understand. Ready to give up your internet, television, stereo system, and other "amenities" and become Amish ? Let's do it.

The sooner we do it, the sooner people will stop killing and dying in war. :hugerollofeyes:

[Tom In VA]

And your defense of it is less ridiculous?

Haven't you noticed? It's all the rage on here these days - everyone strutting about bolt upright, twirling their mustaches and mumbling things about petrol supplies reaching the front in an orderly fashion?

Don't forget to send in your pantyhose so we can make more parachutes.

[SunCoastSooner]

Furthermore I don't think it would have mattered what the hell Bush could have said you would have bashed him no matter what.

[Tom In VA]

All the while overlooking generals saying that the insurgents are 95% Iraqi.

Yeah, there wouldn't be a reason for that little tid bit of information to get out.


I mean, we wouldn't want to let Haji in other countries in on the fact it's a great place to come and kill Americans now would we ?

Cite your sources and I can match them with data that suggests otherwise.

"TRUTH" is the first casualty of war. There's a reason for engaging in misinformation. Especially in this day in age when information is passed around more than a dildo at a lesbian sleep over. What part of we are being watched and monitored don't you get ? Shit, the Navajo code talkers couldn't get past CNN and FoxNews now a days, they'd go out to the nearest reservation and find someone to translate it for the viewing public. And guess who is a part of their viewing public ?

You guessed it. The Manic Madras of Mecca. They're educated, about me and you. I think you and I need to brush up a bit on them.

[Bizzarofelice]

All the while overlooking generals saying that the insurgents are 95% Iraqi.

Link?

CNN was attributing it to General Abizaid.

[Variable]

To a T I am willing to bet that all you people calling it a "quagmire" have never served not a day one in the military.

Rack the hell out of that! You couldn't be more right.

[Dr_Phibes]

To a T I am willing to bet that all you people calling it a "quagmire" have never served not a day one in the military.

Rack the hell out of that! You couldn't be more right.

And those that have, barring picking up a trade, are well qualified for employment as security gaurds.

[SunCoastSooner]

To a T I am willing to bet that all you people calling it a "quagmire" have never served not a day one in the military.

Rack the hell out of that! You couldn't be more right.

And those that have, barring picking up a trade, are well qualified for employment as security gaurds.

Yeah tell that to people like my father with two Doctorates, Juris (OU) and accounting (Pennsylvania), and a masters in business (texass, but he doesn't admit it unless he has too) and still find the time to serve for over twenty + years.

[Dr_Phibes]

Nothing wrong with a good Quartermaster.

[tough love]

Last Night's Big Question Asked:
Is the sacafice worth it"

Correct Answer: It is for Bu$h Corp.

[Bizzarofelice]

Last Night's Big Question Asked:
Is the sacafice worth it"

If the consumers have to sacrifice a fraction of their cash at the pump, hell no. Ain't no way the public should be asked to sacrifice their SUVs.

If the general public can continue in their ways and allow only the soldiers and families of soldiers to have to sacrifice, then that is acceptable.

[SunCoastSooner]

Last Night's Big Question Asked:
Is the sacafice worth it"

If the consumers have to sacrifice a fraction of their cash at the pump, hell no. Ain't no way the public should be asked to sacrifice their SUVs.

If the general public can continue in their ways and allow only the soldiers and families of soldiers to have to sacrifice, then that is acceptable.

Thank God we had a different breed of people in the 1940s in this country or Japan and Germany would have kicked our teeth in!!!

This country in inundated with pussies like Bmonica who don't have a clue what sacrifice means. I don't pretend to know what my grandparents went through in that time period and pray I never will because this country wouldn't survive it again.

My Grandfather must be rolling over in his grave in disgust at what this country has become.

[DrDetroit]

I thought it was a quagmire four days after it started??? At least that is what I read in Newsweek, :roll: .

Once again we have a know-nothing, do-nothing liberal characterizing Iraq as a "quagmire." You know what, people, criticizing government comes with an obligation to know what you are talking about.

Things are getting better in Iraq despite the increased level of insurgent attacks. Though we rarely hear about it from the mainstream media. And you have to wonder if the increased insurgent attacks are not a direct response to American liberals incessant pleas for an exit strategy as the insurgents sense the liberals winning the war for them.

[Hapday]

What was it that you're bringing to the discussion again ?

Hand wringing and Monday morning QBing.

FTFY

[Variable]

And those that have, barring picking up a trade, are well qualified for employment as security gaurds.

Those that are junior enlisted gun-toting grunts, sure. But they are in the distinct minority, as anyone who spends four years or more in the service will get out with management experience at the very least.

Heck, take me for an example. Besides the job skill that I learned, I also picked up an invaluable skill by needing to make split second decisions where a wrong one would get everyone killed. I also managed a crew of 10-15 and ran my divisional training program. ...and I was just an E-4!

The training is there, it's just what you want to do with it. If you want to get out and be a security guard, that's there for you, but you can also hop right into management, as you already have several years of OJT under your belt and are more than likely a whiz at crisis management.

[Tom In VA]

Last Night's Big Question Asked:
Is the sacafice worth it"

If the consumers have to sacrifice a fraction of their cash at the pump, hell no. Ain't no way the public should be asked to sacrifice their SUVs.

If the general public can continue in their ways and allow only the soldiers and families of soldiers to have to sacrifice, then that is acceptable.

SUV's ?

I think you and tough love are simply trolls looking for some attention.

Look around you. Almost every single technological advance made in the 20th century relies on OIL.

Will driving hybrids, mass public transportation, growing "Victory Gardens" such that trucks no longer have to use oil to deliver food help ?

Well gee, I don't know. Maybe that's where all you Bu$h Corp bullshitters, and "Quagmire" queers, can finally get off your ass and offer solutions instead of hand wringing and whining.

If you need help conducting the research or finding out if research and an impact study .... if somewhere among the DNC's and Leftist Louie's annals of weblogs there is some plan, some sort of IMPACT STUDY and clear direction as to what the average American can do .... PM me, I'll be glad to help.

The problem here is that as of late, all we have is petulent hypocritic know-nothings talking about how this war is unwinnable, it's a quagmire and "I'm not to blame, I mean even though I'm relying on the same resource you are, I'm better than you because I protest the war and I'm calling it a quagmire".


Get off your asses and get to work, tools. Show some fucking leadership.

[Luther]

ding...ding...ding.

Rack you, Tom.

Rip City

[Variable]

36th Division getting shot to pieces crossing the Rapido during the battle for Monte Cassino

Rack your WWII knowledge.

CHAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGGGGEE!! Crap...Oot. - 36th Division

This just in...fording a river called "The Rapido" on foot with a fortified enemy on the other side might not be a good idea.

BTW, this: "Sniveling cunts and whiners are a universal constant." is sig-worthy. Nicely donel.

[BSmack]

Any American disaster such as Kasserine Pass, Salerno, Anzio, the 36th Division getting shot to pieces crossing the Rapido during the battle for Monte Cassino, Omaha Beach, the Normandy bocage, the Hurtgen Forest and the Bulge all dwarf this current "war".

This war barely rates as a squirt of piss in the ocean by comparison.

The difference is that we knew what our exit strategy was. When we got to Belin and Tokyo, the war was over. Now we are kept in the dark about this most fundemental issue.

But hey, feel free to continue your History Channel recital.

[Hapday]

Any American disaster such as Kasserine Pass, Salerno, Anzio, the 36th Division getting shot to pieces crossing the Rapido during the battle for Monte Cassino, Omaha Beach, the Normandy bocage, the Hurtgen Forest and the Bulge all dwarf this current "war".

This war barely rates as a squirt of piss in the ocean by comparison.

The difference is that we knew what our exit strategy was.

The exit strategy was victory all costs or die trying, you dumbfuck.

[Tom In VA]

Any American disaster such as Kasserine Pass, Salerno, Anzio, the 36th Division getting shot to pieces crossing the Rapido during the battle for Monte Cassino, Omaha Beach, the Normandy bocage, the Hurtgen Forest and the Bulge all dwarf this current "war".

This war barely rates as a squirt of piss in the ocean by comparison.

The difference is that we knew what our exit strategy was. When we got to Belin and Tokyo, the war was over. Now we are kept in the dark about this most fundemental issue.

But hey, feel free to continue your History Channel recital.

Exit strategy ? Last I checked they're just now talking about getting rid of bases in Europe. And Japan ? With North Korea and China breathing heavy, I wouldn't expect any of our boys to be coming home from the Pacific any time soon.

[DrDetroit]

As someone pointed out at NRO, the problem with Democrats like Kerry and Biden have is that they make these ultra-harsh critiques of Bush, but 1) they don't really have a competing theory for how to approach the Middle East and the war on terror (at least not one they are willing to starkly articulate and defend); 2) they aren't willing to go down the road of a MoveOn.org and call for a fundamental departure from our current policy. So they huff and puff--and offer relatively minor suggestions around the edges.

Re: an exit strategy, people like BSmack, Bushice, and Democrats like Kerry, Kennedy, et al., don't have an exit strategy, period. They carp around the margins complaining that we've been there too long, things are taking too long, and the US troops should be coming home. Yet, they have no plan, nothing at all.

Hell, didn't Pelosi just introduce legislation that would require Bush to submit to Congress a plan containing a 'Strategy For Success' in Iraq and identifying the criteria to determine when it is appropriate to begin bringing U.S. troops home.

Well, why bother? Why not introduce your own plan and your own determining criteria.

Answer: because they are not interested in presenting a plan, only underming the President's plan.

The President's plan is quite clear.

[Variable]

Hell, didn't Pelosi just introduce legislation that would require Bush to submit to Congress a plan containing a 'Strategy For Success' in Iraq and identifying the criteria to determine when it is appropriate to begin bringing U.S. troops home.

Actually, it was Barbara Boxer in the Senate, but if you've heard one CA Democratic cackling hen, you've heard them all. Well, other than Feinstein. She gets a pass for at least thinking before opening her trap.

We will leave when Iraq is capable of defending itself.

That, or when the Iraqi gov't asks us to leave. If you recall, BSmack, Bush asked the newly elected gov't if they wanted us to leave and they said "no." All they have to do is say the word and we're gonzo.

Rack the hell out of Tom in this thread. Very well-reasoned, well-presented takes.

[SunCoastSooner]

Thank God we had a different breed of people in the 1940s in this country or Japan and Germany would have kicked our teeth in!!!

Actually, we didn't. Sniveling cunts and whiners are universal constant.
It's just that history rarely remembers such people save to mock their cowardice and idiocy.

Try reading Churchill's Memoirs of the Second World War. It's a very good illustration of the point. People really don't recall that we lurched from one disaster or near disaster to the next during WW2. It's presented as some kind of inevitable, triumphal procession through history, but it was far from it.

Any American disaster such as Kasserine Pass, Salerno, Anzio, the 36th Division getting shot to pieces crossing the Rapido during the battle for Monte Cassino, Omaha Beach, the Normandy bocage, the Hurtgen Forest and the Bulge all dwarf this current "war".

This war barely rates as a squirt of piss in the ocean by comparison.

Good point and I think I'll need to pick that read up for one of the game day trips this fall.

[SunCoastSooner]

Any American disaster such as Kasserine Pass, Salerno, Anzio, the 36th Division getting shot to pieces crossing the Rapido during the battle for Monte Cassino, Omaha Beach, the Normandy bocage, the Hurtgen Forest and the Bulge all dwarf this current "war".

This war barely rates as a squirt of piss in the ocean by comparison.

The difference is that we knew what our exit strategy was. When we got to Belin and Tokyo, the war was over. Now we are kept in the dark about this most fundemental issue.

But hey, feel free to continue your History Channel recital.

Exit strategy ? Last I checked they're just now talking about getting rid of bases in Europe. And Japan ? With North Korea and China breathing heavy, I wouldn't expect any of our boys to be coming home from the Pacific any time soon.

Another Rack for Tom!!!!

Couldn't have said it better myself. Exit strategy in WWII??? WTF we still haven't left either of those damn countries.

[BSmack]

That, or when the Iraqi gov't asks us to leave. If you recall, BSmack, Bush asked the newly elected gov't if they wanted us to leave and they said "no." All they have to do is say the word and we're gonzo.

No shit they want us to stay. Our presence is the only thing keeping the "Iraqi Government" afloat. Here's another clue for y'all, the government of South Vietnam wanted us to stay too.

[DrDetroit]

This is not Vietnam you idiot.

And as we saw in the aftermath of the US withdrawal from South Vietnam, that government had good reason to want us there.

What was it? A few million slaughtered after we withdrew? Of course, you people take no responsibility for that disgusting loss of life...

[BSmack]

This is not Vietnam you idiot.

Which means that you will now draw your own self seving comparison to Viet Nam.

And as we saw in the aftermath of the US withdrawal from South Vietnam, that government had good reason to want us there. What was it? A few million slaughtered after we withdrew? Of course, you people take no responsibility for that disgusting loss of life...

After 30 years of unimaginable privation, I find it somewhat understandable that the VC and NVA forces might take out some of those frustrations on the people who stood with the South Vietanmese government.

Was it a tragedy? Yes.

Was it the fault of those who wanted the US out of that no win situation?

HELL NO.