Gotta love the talking points on this Rove thing...

[At Large]

I haven't been reading the thread here about the Rove/Plame thing so don't bother pointing out that this may have been covered all ready.

What I absolutely love about this whole thing is the talking points that everyone in the right wing media seems to have memorized by heart. Everyone from Rush Limbaugh to Sean Hannity to G Gordon Liddy have been regurgitating the same opinion on this.

It goes something like this: Rove was just talking the Newsweek (oops. Time magazine) reporter and was just helping this guy not embarrass himself because he was barking up the wrong tree with Wilson's claims so he mentioned that his wife worked at the agency. That's all. Simple as that.

You could create a montage of all the talking heads saying the same thing and produce one coherent sound bite.

Look, I could care less about this whole affair. It's clear Wilson isn't a saint, but to potray Karl Rove as a guy that's looking after the media? They love when the media embarrasses themselves! How stupid do they think we are?

If you're going to have talking points circulated so that everyone is on the same page, at least give everyone a different set so that everyone doesn't sound like a parrot. I admit, it's pretty funny to listen to, but that's no excuse for this blather.

[BSmack]

Nobody says he was "looking after the media".

He was exposing a pathetic, lying piece of shit. What do you expect the White House to do? Let that Wilson asshole run around lying like a bitch or are they going to break him off?

It's nothing personal, just politics.

No, it's national security now.

[socal]

Nobody says he was "looking after the media".

He was exposing a pathetic, lying piece of shit. What do you expect the White House to do? Let that Wilson asshole run around lying like a bitch or are they going to break him off?

It's nothing personal, just politics.

No, it's national security now.

It's both. Plus it's Dubya's word.

[See You Next Wednesday]

Nobody says he was "looking after the media".

He was exposing a pathetic, lying piece of shit. What do you expect the White House to do? Let that Wilson asshole run around lying like a bitch or are they going to break him off?

It's nothing personal, just politics.

Cite?

[DrDetroit]

And it was precisely that assertion by Wilson that started the whole mess. Joe Wilson claimed that he was sent to Niger by the Vice President's office. That was a lie. Karl Rove knew that was a lie.

Hence, when Cooper from TIME called Rove re: welfare reform and then raised the point re: Wilson's assertion, Rove noted that Wilson got the assignment through the influence of the his wife. Rove neither identified Plame by name or position at CIA. Rove was warning Cooper off of printing a false story re: Cheney assigning Wilson to Niger.

We know now that Plame influenced the decision to send Wilson based on the information compiled by the Senate Intelligence Committee and issued in its report last July. They even got an email sent by Plame recommending her husband for the assignment.

Those are the facts.

At-Large, the reason the opinions of those on the Right appear to be very similar is that we on the Right are using FACTS to develop our opinions. FACTS like the information contained in emails sent by Cooper explaining what Rove told him and by Plame influencing the decision to have her hubby sent to Niger.

When people are relying on the same set of facts and information, well, you'd expect opinions to be remarkably similar.

[BSmack]

And it was precisely that assertion by Wilson that started the whole mess. Joe Wilson claimed that he was sent to Niger by the Vice President's office. That was a lie. Karl Rove knew that was a lie.

Hence, when Cooper from TIME called Rove re: welfare reform and then raised the point re: Wilson's assertion, Rove noted that Wilson got the assignment through the influence of the his wife. Rove neither identified Plame by name or position at CIA. Rove was warning Cooper off of printing a false story re: Cheney assigning Wilson to Niger.

Then Rove could have just as easily warned the reporter off this "false story" by saying that Wilson was sent by an unnamed person in the Agency. That would have been sufficient to move the reporter off the story you allege is false without compromising national security.

This is not rocket science. Rove is a criminal.

[DrDetroit]

And it was precisely that assertion by Wilson that started the whole mess. Joe Wilson claimed that he was sent to Niger by the Vice President's office. That was a lie. Karl Rove knew that was a lie.

Hence, when Cooper from TIME called Rove re: welfare reform and then raised the point re: Wilson's assertion, Rove noted that Wilson got the assignment through the influence of the his wife. Rove neither identified Plame by name or position at CIA. Rove was warning Cooper off of printing a false story re: Cheney assigning Wilson to Niger.

Then Rove could have just as easily warned the reporter off this "false story" by saying that Wilson was sent by an unnamed person in the Agency. That would have been sufficient to move the reporter off the story you allege is false without compromising national security.

This is not rocket science. Rove is a criminal.

Hysterical bed-wetter says what?

National security was compromised?

You know, I have seen and heard that crap for a week now, yet, amazingly, no one has even attempted to articulate precisely how national security was affected by Rove indicating that the CIA sent Wilson to Niger.

[BSmack]

National security was compromised?

You know, I have seen and heard that crap for a week now, yet, amazingly, no one has even attempted to articulate precisely how national security was affected by Rove indicating that the CIA sent Wilson to Niger.

Rove outed a covert agent. If he is allowed to walk, the precedent will have been set to allow others to walk. He must be punished or the terrorists win.

[DrDetroit]

She hadn't been a covert agent for at least the five years prior to novak's column. That's important because one of the tests in the law is whether the CIA employee was a protected agent within five years of the disclosure.

Plame was not and likely had not been a protected agent in nine years.

Your hysterical talking points are duly noted.

Now fuck off, loser.

[BSmack]

She hadn't been a covert agent for at least the five years prior to novak's column. That's important because one of the tests in the law is whether the CIA employee was a protected agent within five years of the disclosure. Plame was not and likely had not been a protected agent in nine years. Your hysterical talking points are duly noted. Now fuck off, loser.

Why do you hate America?

[At Large]

At-Large, the reason the opinions of those on the Right appear to be very similar is that we on the Right are using FACTS to develop our opinions. FACTS like the information contained in emails sent by Cooper explaining what Rove told him and by Plame influencing the decision to have her hubby sent to Niger.

When people are relying on the same set of facts and information, well, you'd expect opinions to be remarkably similar.

Yeah, I'm sure it's all a coincidence that everyone is saying the exact same things with the exact same points. Those righties sure do their homework! :wink:

[DrDetroit]

At-Large, the reason the opinions of those on the Right appear to be very similar is that we on the Right are using FACTS to develop our opinions. FACTS like the information contained in emails sent by Cooper explaining what Rove told him and by Plame influencing the decision to have her hubby sent to Niger.

When people are relying on the same set of facts and information, well, you'd expect opinions to be remarkably similar.

Yeah, I'm sure it's all a coincidence that everyone is saying the exact same things with the exact same points. Those righties sure do their homework! :wink:

It's not unreasonable to expect that the opinions would be relatively similar.

Look, we know what Rove said to Cooper and under what circumstances.

We know (from the Senate Select Intelligence Committee) that Wilson lied about who sent him to Niger, which was the point that Rove was getting across to Cooper.

We also know from Wilson's book, In The Politics of Truth, as the USA Today (in today's edition) illutrates, former ambassador Joseph Wilson writes that he and his future wife both returned from overseas assignments in June 1997. Neither spouse, a reading of the book indicates, was again stationed overseas. They appear to have remained in Washington, D.C., where they married and became parents of twins.

Six years later, in July 2003, the name of the CIA officer --Valerie Plame--was revealed by columnist Robert Novak.

It really ain't that difficult to understand that reasonable people will draw the same conclusions.

Rove was not retailing plame's name to reporters. Rove only cited Wilsons' wife involvement in Wilson's assignment to Niger after Cooper stated that TIME would be running a story that claimed Wilson was sent at the direction of the VP.

Rove did not "out" a covert agent because Plame was no longer an agent and had not been a protected agent for at least 5 years when Rove talked to Cooper. Therefore, we know that Rove did not break a law.

We also know that Miller is in jail because she is obstructing justice by refusing to reveal her source's name. Which is interesting. While the NYT is convinced that a crime was committed, its policy is protecting the person(s) who committed that very crime the NYT thinkgs was committed.

Knowing the facts will often lead to group consensus, At-large.

That you refuse to acknowledge this demonstrates that you're not really interested in how group consensus is developed but rather you're interested in criticizing and/or slandering.

[At Large]

I see you got the memo...

[DrDetroit]

I see that you label facts as mere talking points...saddle up, bitch, you're gonna get ridden like your ma at the trough...

[At Large]

I'm not here to argue. I am merely pointing out the amazing coincidence of every right wing writer and broadcaster saying the same phrases about this situation. Open your blinders and get off the spin cycle...

[DrDetroit]

I'm not here to argue. I am merely pointing out the amazing coincidence of every right wing writer and broadcaster saying the same phrases about this situation. Open your blinders and get off the spin cycle...

It ain't an amazing coincidence, dolt. The facts are what they are. Hence, reasonable people draw similar conclusion when acknowleding the same facts.

Look, Richard Cohen at WaPo could hardly be considered a right-winger, yet, amazingly (in your words) he's running the same "talking points" that the righties are.

:roll:

Open your eyes, dipshit.

BTW - why are you not similarly amazed by the universal message of the left?

Again, it's not because you're intrigued by group consensus and only because you're interested in slandering the right as mere sheep re: this issue.

[BSmack]

Look, Richard Cohen at WaPo could hardly be considered a right-winger...

[At Large]

Won't be long before he calls me fag I guess...

Anyway...

What do you think of this angle when Novak broadcast the name of Plame's covert company, which potentially endangered lives of more CIA agents...

" The name of the CIA front company was broadcast yesterday by Novak, the syndicated journalist who originally identified Plame. Novak, highlighting Wilson's ties to Democrats, said on CNN that Wilson's "wife, the CIA employee, gave $1,000 to Gore and she listed herself as an employee of Brewster-Jennings & Associates."

"There is no such firm, I'm convinced," he continued. "CIA people are not supposed to list themselves with fictitious firms if they're under a deep cover -- they're supposed to be real firms, or so I'm told. Sort of adds to the little mystery." "

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dy ... ge=printer


So is this really about Plame or is about exposing the covers of more CIA operatives that had listed this company as their cover? Is this breaking the law? And who supplied Novak this?

You brought up facts. Is this a fact or am I reading spin?

[DrDetroit]

What do you think of this angle when Novak broadcast the name of Plame's covert company, which potentially endangered lives of more CIA agents...

Novak was only repeating publicly available information. Wilson outted Plame as his wife and a CIA employee in an online bio and in his own book. The political contribution information is public information. Novak didn't reveal anything being protected by the government.

So is there really about Plame

No. It's about Joe Wilson lying not only about who dispatched him to Niger and his conclusions re: his investigation.

or is about exposing the covers of more CIA operatives that had listed this company as their cover?

That's spin. There'd be a separate investigation for this.

Is this breaking the law?

No.

And who supplied Novak this?

Who's Who in America had identified Plame as Wilson's wife.

Wilson's book, Politics of Truth, noted that both he and Plame had returned from their overseas assignments several years before.

You brought up facts.

And I am still bringing them. You?

Is this a fact or am I reading spin?

Just enough fact to draw the wrong spin.

[socal]

It's nothing personal, just politics.

No, it's national security.

It's both

It's neither.

.
.
.
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[upstart]

I'm not here to argue. I am merely pointing out the amazing coincidence of every right wing writer and broadcaster saying the same phrases about this situation. Open your blinders and get off the spin cycle...

Thay could be saying the same thing because its the truth....open your
blinders.

[At Large]

I see that you label facts as mere talking points...saddle up, bitch, you're gonna get ridden like your ma at the trough...

Back to this. Talking points are a spin on the facts. Both sides have talking points for their own side's point of view.

Let's look at your spin, which by the way continues to echo the spin from Hannity, Rush, etc. Nice job by the way!

You state that Wilson listed his wife on Who's Who in America. Now did it specifically say 'Joe Wilson is married to Valerie Plame' or 'Joe Wilson is married to Valerie Plame, who by the way is in the CIA'. Now both are facts, obviously, but if it just said the first thing, which it did (unless it was changed) then what you are presenting me is spin. Naming your wife is not outing her. He was an ambassador was he not? I'm sure he had to introduce her at social functions from time to time. Did he say, "And this is... nobody of consequence." when introducing her?

Second point. You mentioned Joe Wilson's book, "Politics of Truth."

You mentioned that he mentioned her in the book, which is a fact, but to say that he "outed" her in the book would be spin. Since the book was published in April of 2004, about 9 months after Novak outed her, I'd say it's a little late.

[ggil]

She was not a covert officer under the definition of the statute....good luck with your weak assed spin Sore Losermen. i.e ya got nuthin on Rove. Even Begala could've told you that back at THE University of TEXAS in the 70's.

The Plame-Wilson's left Europe in 97. Novak outed her in 2003. That's six years to us fuzzy mathemagians and the statute calls for 5 years. Y'all are screamin louder than Jesse the puppet on Woody's last ride

As Jenna Bush would say on SNL Vanessa Kerry can SUCK IT

chum evol,

ggil

ps


Joe Wilson's Top Ten Worst Inaccuracies And Misstatements


1.) Wilson Insisted That The Vice President’s Office Sent Him To Niger:

Wilson Said He Traveled To Niger At CIA Request To Help Provide Response To Vice President’s Office. “In February 2002, I was informed by officials at the Central Intelligence Agency that Vice President Dick Cheney’s office had questions about a particular intelligence report. … The agency officials asked if I would travel to Niger to check out the story so they could provide a response to the vice president’s office.” (Joseph C. Wilson, Op-Ed, “What I Didn’t Find In Africa,” The New York Times, 7/6/03)

Joe Wilson: “[W]hat They Did, What The Office Of The Vice President Did, And, In Fact, I Believe Now From Mr. Libby’s Statement, It Was Probably The Vice President Himself ...” (CNN’s “Late Edition,” 8/3/03)
Vice President Cheney: “I Don’t Know Joe Wilson. I’ve Never Met Joe Wilson. … And Joe Wilson - I Don’t [Know] Who Sent Joe Wilson. He Never Submitted A Report That I Ever Saw When He Came Back.” (NBC’s “Meet The Press,” 9/14/03)

CIA Director George Tenet: “In An Effort To Inquire About Certain Reports Involving Niger, CIA’s Counter-Proliferation Experts, On Their Own Initiative, Asked An Individual With Ties To The Region To Make A Visit To See What He Could Learn.” (Central Intelligence Agency, “Statement By George J. Tenet, Director Of Central Intelligence,” Press Release, 7/11/03)

2.) Wilson Claimed The Vice President And Other Senior White House Officials Were Briefed On His Niger Report:

“[Wilson] Believed That [His Report] Would Have Been Distributed To The White House And That The Vice President Received A Direct Response To His Question About The Possible Uranium Deal.” (Senate Select Committee On Intelligence, “Report On The U.S. Intelligence Community’s Prewar Assessments On Iraq,” 7/7/04)

The Senate Select Committee On Intelligence Reported That The Vice President Was Not Briefed On Wilson’s Report. “Conclusion 14. The Central Intelligence Agency should have told the Vice President and other senior policymakers that it had sent someone to Niger to look into the alleged Iraq-Niger uranium deal and it should have briefed the Vice President on the former ambassador’s findings.” (Senate Select Committee On Intelligence, “Report On The U.S. Intelligence Community’s Prewar Assessments On Iraq,” 7/7/04)

CIA Director George Tenet: “Because This Report, In Our View, Did Not Resolve Whether Iraq Was Or Was Not Seeking Uranium From Abroad, It Was Given A Normal And Wide Distribution, But We Did Not Brief It To The President, Vice-President Or Other Senior Administration Officials.” (Central Intelligence Agency, “Statement By George J. Tenet, Director Of Central Intelligence,” Press Release, 7/11/03)

3.) Wilson Has Claimed His Niger Report Was Conclusive And Significant

Wilson Claims His Trip Proved There Was Nothing To The Uranium “Allegations.” “I knew that [Dr. Rice] had fundamentally misstated the facts. In fact, she had lied about it. I had gone out and I had undertaken this study. I had come back and said that this was not feasible. … This government knew that there was nothing to these allegations.” (NBC’s, “Meet The Press,” 5/2/04)

Officials Said Evidence In Wilson’s Niger Report Was “Thin” And His “Homework Was Shoddy.” (Michael Duffy, “Leaking With A Vengeance,” Time, 10/13/03)

Senate Select Committee On Intelligence Unanimous Report: “Conclusion 13. The Report On The Former Ambassador’s Trip To Niger, Disseminated In March 2002, Did Not Change Any Analysts’ Assessments Of The Iraq-Niger Uranium Deal.” (Senate Select Committee On Intelligence, “Report On The U.S. Intelligence Community’s Prewar Assessments On Iraq,” 7/7/04)
“For Most Analysts, The Information In The Report Lent More Credibility To The Original Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) Report On The Uranium Deal, But State Department Bureau Of Intelligence And Research (INR) Analysts Believed That The Report Supported Their Assessments That Niger Was Unlikely To Be Willing Or Able To Sell Uranium.” (Senate Select Committee On Intelligence, “Report On The U.S. Intelligence Community’s Prewar Assessments On Iraq,” 7/7/04)
CIA Said Wilson’s Findings Did Not Resolve The Issue. “Because [Wilson’s] report, in our view, did not resolve whether Iraq was or was not seeking uranium from abroad, it was given a normal and wide distribution, but we did not brief it to the president, vice president or other senior administration officials. We also had to consider that the former Nigerien officials knew that what they were saying would reach the U.S. government and that this might have influenced what they said.” (Central Intelligence Agency, “Statement By George J. Tenet, Director Of Central Intelligence,” Press Release 7/11/03)

The Butler Report Claimed That The President’s State Of the Union Statement On Uranium From Africa, “Was Well-Founded.” “We conclude that, on the basis of the intelligence assessments at the time, covering both Niger and the Democratic Republic of Congo, the statements on Iraqi attempts to buy uranium from Africa in the Government’s dossier, and by the Prime Minister in the House of Commons, were well-founded. By extension, we conclude also that the statement in President Bush’s State of the Union Address of 28 January 2003 that: ‘The British Government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa.’ was well-founded.” (The Rt. Hon. The Lord Butler Of Brockwell, “Review Of Intelligence, On Weapons Of Mass Destruction,” 7/14/04)

4.) Wilson Denied His Wife Suggested He Travel To Niger In 2002:

Wilson Claimed His Wife Did Not Suggest He Travel To Niger To Investigate Reports Of Uranium Deal; Instead, Wilson Claims It Came Out Of Meeting With CIA. CNN’s Wolf Blitzer: “Among other things, you had always said, always maintained, still maintain your wife, Valerie Plame, a CIA officer, had nothing to do with the decision to send to you Niger to inspect reports that uranium might be sold from Niger to Iraq. … Did Valerie Plame, your wife, come up with the idea to send you to Niger?” Joe Wilson: “No. My wife served as a conduit, as I put in my book. When her supervisors asked her to contact me for the purposes of coming into the CIA to discuss all the issues surrounding this allegation of Niger selling uranium to Iraq.” (CNN’s “Late Edition,” 7/18/04)

But Senate Select Committee On Intelligence Received Not Only Testimony But Actual Documentation Indicating Wilson’s Wife Proposed Him For Trip. “Some CPD, [CIA Counterproliferation Division] officials could not recall how the office decided to contact the former ambassador, however, interviews and documents provided to the Committee indicate that his wife, a CPD employee, suggested his name for the trip. The CPD reports officer told Committee staff that the former ambassador’s wife ‘offered up his name’ and a memorandum to the Deputy Chief of the CPD on February 12, 2002, from the former ambassador’s wife says, ‘my husband has good relations with both the PM [prime minister] and the former Minister of Mines (not to mention lots of French contacts), both of whom could possibly shed light on this sort of activity.’” (Select Committee On Intelligence, “Report On The U.S. Intelligence Community’s Prewar Intelligence Assessments On Iraq,” U.S. Senate, 7/7/04)
5.) Wilson Has Claimed His 1999 Trip To Niger Was Not Suggested By His Wife:

Wilson Claims CIA Thought To Ask Him To Make Trip Because He Had Previously Made Trip For Them In 1999, Not Because Of His Wife’s Suggestion. CNN’s Wolf Blitzer: “Who first raised your name, then, based on what you know? Who came up with the idea to send you there?” Joe Wilson: “The CIA knew my name from a trip, and it’s in the report, that I had taken in 1999 related to uranium activities but not related to Iraq. I had served for 23 years in government including as Bill Clinton’s Senior Director for African Affairs at the National Security Council. I had done a lot of work with the Niger government during a period punctuated by a military coup and a subsequent assassination of a president. So I knew all the people there.” (CNN’s “Late Edition,” 7/18/04)

In Fact, His Wife Suggested Him For 1999 Trip, As Well. “The former ambassador had traveled previously to Niger on the CIA’s behalf … The former ambassador was selected for the 1999 trip after his wife mentioned to her supervisors that her husband was planning a business trip to Niger in the near future and might be willing to use his contacts in the region …” (Select Committee On Intelligence, “Report On The U.S. Intelligence Community’s Prewar Intelligence Assessments On Iraq,” U.S. Senate, 7/7/04)

6.) Wilson Claimed He Was A Victim Of A Partisan Smear Campaign

Joe Wilson: “Well, I Don’t Know. Obviously, There’s Been This Orchestrated Campaign, This Smear Campaign. I Happen To Think That It’s Because The RNC, The Republican National Committee’s Been Involved In This In A Big Way …” CNN’s Wolf Blitzer: “But They Weren’t Involved In The Senate Intelligence Committee Report.” Wilson: “No, They Weren’t.” (CNN’s “Late Edition,” 7/18/04)

Senate Intelligence Committee Unanimously Concluded That Wilson’s Report “Lent More Credibility” For Most Analysts “To The Original Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) Reports.” “Conclusion 13. The report on the former ambassador’s trip to Niger, disseminated in March 2002, did not change any analysts’ assessments of the Iraq-Niger uranium deal. For most analysts, the information in the report lent more credibility to the original Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) reports on the uranium deal, but the State Department Bureau of Intelligence and Research (INR) analysts believed that the report supported their assessment that Niger was unlikely to be willing or able to sell uranium to Iraq.” (Select Committee On Intelligence, “Report On The U.S. Intelligence Community’s Prewar Intelligence Assessments On Iraq,” U.S. Senate, 7/7/04)

Members Of The Senate Select Committee On Intelligence That Wrote The Unanimous “Report On The U.S. Intelligence Community’s Prewar Intelligence Assessments On Iraq”:

Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D-WV)

Sen. Carl Levin (D-MI)

Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-CA)

Sen. Ron Wyden (D-OR)

Sen. Richard Durbin (D-IL)

Sen. Evan Bayh (D-IN)

Sen. John Edwards (D-NC)

Sen. Barbara Mikulski (D-MD)

Sen. Pat Roberts (R-KS)

Sen. Orrin Hatch (R-UT)

Sen. Mike DeWine (R-OH)

Sen. Christopher Bond (R-MO)

Sen. Trent Lott (R-MS)

Sen. Olympia Snowe (R-ME)

Sen. Chuck Hagel (R-NE)

Sen. Saxby Chambliss (R-GA)

Sen. John Warner (R-VA)

(Select Committee On Intelligence, “Report On The U.S. Intelligence Community’s Prewar Intelligence Assessments On Iraq,” U.S. Senate, 7/7/04)

7.) A Month Before The Bob Novak And Matthew Cooper Articles Ever Came Out, Wilson Told The Washington Post That Previous Intelligence Reports About Niger Were Based On Forged Documents:

In June Of 2003, Wilson Told The Washington Post “The Niger Intelligence Was Based On Documents That Had Clearly Been Forged Because ‘The Dates Were Wrong And The Names Were Wrong.’” (Susan Schmidt, “Plame’s Input Is Cited On Niger Mission,” The Washington Post, 7/10/04)

However, “The [Senate Select Committee On Intelligence] Report … Said Wilson Provided Misleading Information To The Washington Post Last June [12th, 2003].” (Susan Schmidt, “Plame’s Input Is Cited On Niger Mission,” The Washington Post, 7/10/04)

Senate Select Committee On Intelligence Unanimous Report: “The Former Ambassador Said That He May Have ‘Misspoken’ To The Reporter When He Said He Concluded The Documents Were ‘Forged.’” (Senate Select Committee On Intelligence, “Report On The U.S. Intelligence Community’s Prewar Assessments On Iraq,” 7/7/04)
8.) Wilson Claimed His Book Would Enrich Debate:

NBC’s Katie Couric: “What Do You Hope The Whole Point Of This Book Will Be? Joe Wilson: “Well, I - I Hope, One, It Will Tell - It Tries To Tell An Interesting Story. Two, I Hope That It Enriches The Debate In A Year In Which We Are All Called Upon As Americans To Elect Our Leaders. And Three, … That [It] Says That This Is A Great Democracy That Is Worthy Of Our Taking Our Responsibilities As Stewards Seriously.” (NBC’s “Today Show,” 5/3/04)

Wilson Admits In His Book That He Had Been Involved In “A Little Literary Flair” When Talking To Reporters. “[Wilson] wrote in his book, he told Committee staff that his assertion may have involved ‘a little literary flair.’” (Matthew Continetti, “‘A Little Literary Flair’” The Weekly Standard, 7/26/04)

Wilson’s Book The Politics Of Truth: Inside The Lies That Put The White House On Trial And Betrayed My Wife’s CIA Identity Has Been Panned In Numerous Reviews For Its Inaccuracies:

“On Page One Of Chapter One, He Quotes NBC Talk Show Host Chris Matthews, Who Told Him That, After Mr. Wilson Chose To Go Public: ‘Wilson’s Wife Is Fair Game.’ Later, He Bases His List Of Suspect Leakers On Conversations With Members Of The News Media And A ‘Source Close To The House Judiciary Committee.’” (Eli Lake, Op-Ed, “Don’t Quit Your Day Job, Mr. Wilson,” New York Post, 5/4/04)

“For Example, When Asked How He ‘Knew’ That The Intelligence Community Had Rejected The Possibility Of A Niger-Iraq Uranium Deal, As He Wrote In His Book, He Told [Senate Intelligence] Committee Staff That His Assertion May Have Involved ‘A Little Literary Flair.’” (Matthew Continetti, “‘A Little Literary Flair,’” The Weekly Standard, 7/26/04)

The Boston Globe: “In Essence, Much Of Wilson’s Book Is An Attempt To Portray The Bush Administration As A Ministry Of Fear Whose Mission In Pursuing War In Iraq Required It To Proclaim A Lie As Truth.” (Michael D. Langan, Op-Ed, “‘Truth’ Makes Much Of Bush Controversy,” The Boston Globe, 5/4/04)

Newsweek’s Evan Thomas Wrote In The Washington Post: “[W]ilson’s Claims And Conclusions Are Either Long Hashed Over Or Based On What The Intelligence Business Describes As ‘Rumint,’ Or Rumor Intelligence.” (Evan Thomas, Op-Ed, “Indecent Exposure,” The Washington Post, 5/16/04)
9.) Wilson Claimed The CIA Provided Him With Information Related To The Iraq-Niger Uranium Transaction:

“The Former Ambassador Noted That His CIA Contacts Told Him There Were Documents Pertaining To The Alleged Iraq-Niger Uranium Transaction And That The Source Of The Information Was The [Redacted] Intelligence Service.” (Senate Select Committee On Intelligence, “Report On The U.S. Intelligence Community’s Prewar Assessments On Iraq,” 7/7/04)

However, “The DO [Director Of Operations At The CIA] Reports Officer Told Committee Staff That He Did Not Provide The Former Ambassador With Any Information About The Source Or Details …” (Senate Select Committee On Intelligence, “Report On The U.S. Intelligence Community’s Prewar Assessments On Iraq,” 7/7/04)
10.) Wilson Claimed He Is A Non-Partisan “Centrist”:
Recently, Joe Wilson Refused To Admit He Is A Registered Democrat. NBC’s Jamie Gangel: “You are a Democrat?” Joe Wilson: “I exercise my rights as a citizen of this country to participate in the selection of my leaders and I am proud to do so. I did so in the election in 2000 by contributing not just to Al Gore's campaign, but also to the Bush-Cheney campaign.” (NBC’s “Today Show,” 7/14/05)

“[Wilson] Insist He Remained A Centrist At Heart.” (Scott Shane, “Private Spy And Public Spouse Live At Center Of Leak Case,” The New York Times, 7/5/05)

Joe Wilson Is A Registered Democrat. (District Of Columbia Voter Registrations, Accessed 7/14/05)

Joseph Wilson Has Donated Over $8,000 To Democrats Including $2,000 To John Kerry For President In 2003, $1,000 To Hillary Clinton’s (D-NY) HILLPAC In 2002 And $3,000 To Al Gore In 1999. (The Center For Responsive Politics Website, http://www.opensecrets.org, Accessed 7/12/05)

Wilson Endorsed John Kerry For President In October 2003 And Advised The Kerry Campaign. (David Tirrell-Wysocki, “Former Ambassador Wilson Endorses Kerry In Presidential Race,” The Associated Press, 10/23/03)

“[Wilson] Admits ‘It Will Be A Cold Day In Hell Before I Vote For A Republican, Even For Dog Catcher.’” (Scott Shane, “Private Spy And Public Spouse Live At Center Of Leak Case,” The New York Times, 7/5/05)

[At Large]

Aaahh... My hats off to that fine cut and paste of a talking points memo.

See link for text...

http://www.gop.com/News/Read.aspx?ID=5630

Look, my whole original point of this is not Joe Wilson, it's the fact that every talking head in the media and even the Wall Street Journal's op ed piece echoed the same thing on almost the same day. It's funny to me.

As for whether Wilson is right or wrong, that's not the point. The point is this investigation right now about the Plame outing and the spin surrounding the revealing of Rove's leaking of Wilson's wife.

[At Large]

Speaking of which, now they're going to let Bob Novak take the fall for this. Nice one! I honestly didn't see that one coming...

http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/07/15/ ... index.html

"The person, who works in the legal profession and spoke only on condition of anonymity because of grand jury secrecy, told The Associated Press that Rove testified last year that he remembers specifically being told by columnist Robert Novak that Valerie Plame, the wife of a harsh Iraq war critic, worked for the CIA."

[DrDetroit]

Speaking of which, now they're going to let Bob Novak take the fall for this. Nice one! I honestly didn't see that one coming...

http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/07/15/ ... index.html

"The person, who works in the legal profession and spoke only on condition of anonymity because of grand jury secrecy, told The Associated Press that Rove testified last year that he remembers specifically being told by columnist Robert Novak that Valerie Plame, the wife of a harsh Iraq war critic, worked for the CIA."

It seems that Plame's employment with CIA was not that big a secret:

Cliff May at NRO in September 2003

Spy Games
Was it really a secret that Joe Wilson’s wife worked for the CIA?

It's the top story in the Washington Post this morning as well as in many other media outlets. Who leaked the fact that the wife of Joseph C. Wilson IV worked for the CIA?

What also might be worth asking: "Who didn't know?"

I believe I was the first to publicly question the credibility of Mr. Wilson, a retired diplomat sent to Niger to look into reports that Saddam Hussein had attempted to purchase yellowcake uranium for his nuclear-weapons program.

On July 6, Mr. Wilson wrote an op-ed for the New York Times in which he said: "I have little choice but to conclude that some of the intelligence related to Iraq's nuclear weapons program was twisted to exaggerate the Iraqi threat."

On July 11, I wrote a piece for NRO arguing that Mr. Wilson had no basis for that conclusion — and that his political leanings and associations (not disclosed by the Times and others journalists interviewing him) cast serious doubt on his objectivity.

On July 14, Robert Novak wrote a column in the Post and other newspapers naming Mr. Wilson's wife, Valerie Plame, as a CIA operative.
That wasn't news to me. I had been told that — but not by anyone working in the White House. Rather, I learned it from someone who formerly worked in the government and he mentioned it in an offhand manner, leading me to infer it was something that insiders were well aware of.

I chose not to include it (I wrote a second NRO piece on this issue on July 18) because it didn't seem particularly relevant to the question of whether or not Mr. Wilson should be regarded as a disinterested professional who had done a thorough investigation into Saddam's alleged attempts to purchase uranium in Africa.

What did appear relevant could easily be found in what the CIA would call "open sources." For example, Mr. Wilson had long been a bitter critic of the current administration, writing in such left-wing publications as The Nation that under President Bush, "America has entered one of it periods of historical madness" and had "imperial ambitions."

What's more, he was affiliated with the pro-Saudi Middle East Institute and he had recently been the keynote speaker for the Education for Peace in Iraq Center, a far-Left group that opposed not only the U.S. military intervention in Iraq but also the sanctions and the no-fly zones that protected Iraqi Kurds and Shias from being slaughtered by Saddam.
Mr. Wilson is now saying (on C-SPAN this morning, for example) that he opposed military action in Iraq because he didn't believe Saddam had weapons of mass destruction and he foresaw the possibility of a difficult occupation. In fact, prior to the U.S. invasion, Mr. Wilson told ABC's Dave Marash that if American troops were sent into Iraq, Saddam might "use a biological weapon in a battle that we might have. For example, if we're taking Baghdad or we're trying to take, in ground-to-ground, hand-to-hand combat."

Equally, important and also overlooked: Mr. Wilson had no apparent background or skill as an investigator. As Mr. Wilson himself acknowledged, his so-called investigation was nothing more than "eight days drinking sweet mint tea and meeting with dozens of people" at the U.S. embassy in Niger. Based on those conversations, he concluded that "it was highly doubtful that any [sale of uranium from Niger to Iraq] had ever taken place."

That's hardly the same as disproving what British intelligence believed — and continues to believe: that Saddam Hussein was actively attempting to purchase uranium from somewhere in Africa. (Whether Saddam succeeded or not isn't the point; were Saddam attempting to make such purchases it would suggest that his nuclear-weapons-development program was active and ongoing.)

For some reason, this background and these questions have been consistently omitted in the Establishment media's reporting on Mr. Wilson and his charges.

There also remains this intriguing question: Was it primarily due to the fact that Mr. Wilson's wife worked for the CIA that he received the Niger assignment?

Mr. Wilson has said that his mission came about following a request from Vice President Cheney. But it appears that if Mr. Cheney made the request at all, he made it of the CIA and did not know Mr. Wilson and certainly did not specify that he wanted Mr. Wilson put on the case.

It has to be seen as puzzling that the agency would deal with an inquiry from the White House on a sensitive national-security matter by sending a retired, Bush-bashing diplomat with no investigative experience. Or didn't the CIA bother to look into Mr. Wilson's background?
If that's what passes for tradecraft in Langley, we're in more trouble than any of us have realized.

Wilson knew what he was doing...he put the administration in a catch-22 situation by lying about who sent him to Niger knowing that the admin could only refute his statements by identifying his wife.

[ggil]

you're not really covert if your next door neighbors know you're cia.

I;ll bet that Judy Miller's source is another reporter... who once had cocktails with the Plame-Wilsons


Plame Game...

Joe jo mo mo, mo manna manna fo fo, fee fi fo fanna fanna

meat



A former CIA covert agent who supervised Mrs. Plame early in her career yesterday took issue with her identification as an "undercover agent," saying that she worked for more than five years at the agency's headquarters in Langley and that most of her neighbors and friends knew that she was a CIA employee. "She made no bones about the fact that she was an agency employee and her husband was a diplomat," Fred Rustmann, a covert agent from 1966 to 1990, told The Washington Times.
"Her neighbors knew this, her friends knew this, his friends knew this. A lot of blame could be put on to central cover staff and the agency because they weren't minding the store here. ... The agency never changed her cover status."

In addition, Mrs. Plame hadn't been out as an NOC since 1997, when she returned from her last assignment, married Mr. Wilson and had twins, USA Today reported yesterday. The distinction matters because a law that forbids disclosing the name of undercover CIA operatives applies to agents that had been on overseas assignment "within the last five years."

Beyond that, the story is pure entertainment value. Yesterday the Senate Democrats tried to revoke Karl Rove's security clearance; every Senate Democrat joined in the buffoonish measure. Bill Frist responded by introducing an amendment to revoke the security clearances of Harry Reid and Dick Durbin, for improperly disclosing the contents of FBI reports, in Reid's case on a judicial nominee and in Durbin's on Guantanamo Bay.

I think it would have been funnier if the Republicans had tried to revoke Ted Kennedy's driver's license.

[DrDetroit]

Maybe they'll go after Pat leahy's as well for disclosing classified national security material from his seat on the Senate Intelligence Committee.

This is complete partisan jackassery, but what else do we expect? This is a party void of policy ideas and circling the drain. They must believe that these types of attacks on Bush will rescue them but I just don't get the calculus of it all.

[At Large]

Maybe they'll go after Pat leahy's as well for disclosing classified national security material from his seat on the Senate Intelligence Committee.

This is complete partisan jackassery, but what else do we expect? This is a party void of policy ideas and circling the drain. They must believe that these types of attacks on Bush will rescue them but I just don't get the calculus of it all.

So the Republican's responding to the Dems childish antics with an even more childish antic isn't partisan jackassary, either? Admit it. Both parties are too wrangled in their own partisan issues to get anything done.

[At Large]

I was listening to Rush over lunch (for a little while) and it was beyond humorous. He was going on and on about how it's over and we can move on to more important things and so on. Nice to see that the anonymous source leak to the media did it's job for the right wingers.

Move along. Nothing to see here...

[DrDetroit]

I was listening to Rush over lunch (for a little while) and it was beyond humorous. He was going on and on about how it's over and we can move on to more important things and so on. Nice to see that the anonymous source leak to the media did it's job for the right wingers.

Move along. Nothing to see here...

What anonymous source leak?

Wilson told Blitzer last night that Plame was not a covert agent when Novak identified Plame as Wilson's life.

The NYT is reporting that Novak told Rove that Plame was Wilson's wife.

Rove was not retailing the identity of a covert agent.

End of fucking story, douchebag.

And what "job" was accomplished? Despite Wilson's lie that Cheney assigned him to Niger, the media still allows Wilson to continue asserting it.

Despite the Senate Select Intelligence Committee's conclusion that Wilson lied about the conclusive nature of this report and that the report was given the Veep, the media continue allowing Wilson to assert that without nary a question.

[At Large]

What anonymous source leak? The story today that quotes a person "close to Rove and the situation" that basically outlines what Rove testified to the grand jury about, which is that he says he heard about Plame from Bob Novak. Ease off of the keyboard until after you've taken your Paxil... :wink:

I'm a douchebag? You're the one I picture all red-faced fuming and typing. Do you think that when you or msvcal call me something like that it gets me mad? I find it extremely funny because you always without fail have to result in some sort of personal attack. It's really sad and pathetic. I will shed a tear now... :(

I'm mostly kidding about the sad and pathetic part, but it is pretty amusing, especially when you try to convince me that Wilson is a fake, because I mainly don't care.

Come on! Do you have any sense of humor?! Admit it! This political tug-of-war over a dipshit like Rove is funny!

[Moving Sale]

All this hoopla because of a Blowjob?

[ggil]

Now this is outing the CIA...thank you very much....NYTimes

http://boards.biography.com/thread.jspa ... =500013150

Funny that no one in the media speaks of another wife...who happens to be a top advisor to Hillary Clinton is married to Michael Cooper....one Mandy Grunwald

So, if you interview Ed Klein you may never ever get an interview with Hillary....WGARA