Amen Whitlock

[Jobocky]

Whitlock

Now I don't completely beleive the race card being played here, but all the points he makes are valid. I still don't complete undertand it

[Cicero]

Surprised it took this long till someone from the black voice cried Racism.

[Sky]

I would agree with some of the points he made. However, I think CW has one games because his whole team is good. TW won because he got a lot of breaks and had a stellar D. As I recall, didn't this D have something like 30% of the points scored by ND that year?

[indyfrisco]

I think what buds the guy the most is that he knows Weis will be successful.

Whatever.

I love articles like that. Makes me feel better about myself.

[Killian]

Eh. I've already debated the validity of most of his points with a friend over email. I won't here.

Fuck it. He can join John Saunders, Michael Wilbon, and Alan Grant. You guys should check out his chat today on ESPN.com. There were some bitter domers on there and they asked some funny questions.

[Adelpiero]

Guy made a point on local radio:


If the black orgs wouldn;t use the "it's cause i'm black" excuse, more programs would be willing to hire more african american coaches.


Imagine hiring one, he's inept(like Gary Pinkel) and when you try to fire him, the NAACP.Jessee,and the Black coaches org all claim it's because he's black.


Your program gets slung in the mud. For many programs, it's not worth the risk!





It has some validity



PS Whitlock is a fat racist tard, it figures he's a member of the ESPN org, fits with all the rest of the blowjobbers there.

[JHawkBCD]

PS Whitlock is a fat racist tard, it figures he's a member of the ESPN org, fits with all the rest of the blowjobbers there.

Rack. Whitlock has nothing BUT the racism card to play... that's the only way he gets any attention, and ESPN will eventually shitcan him for embarrassing them just like he did all of the radio stations he's worked for in KC.

[Adelpiero]

PS Whitlock is a fat racist tard, it figures he's a member of the ESPN org, fits with all the rest of the blowjobbers there.

Rack. Whitlock has nothing BUT the racism card to play... that's the only way he gets any attention, and ESPN will eventually shitcan him for embarrassing them just like he did all of the radio stations he's worked for in KC.

i just blasted him in an email(first time i have ever emailed any writer, etc)

I told him to keep using the race card while he can, cause eventually it will fall on deaf ears, and hacks like him will be pumping gas at Hucks 24/7 fuel-n-groceries!

His stories always have holes, he throws out garbage, then steers away from any points. typical Whitlock.

Maybe Jason should be trying to get Pinkel out of Columbia, rather than cure cancer, the world woes, and bs race card agendas!

[War Wagon]

Hate on Whitlock all you want, and believe me, I despise the fat racist fuck...but his columns sell newspapers like nobody the KC Star has ever had.

He can be funny and creative at times. See his B.A. Homer stories, which I find hilarious. For the most part though, he's only trying to pull chains with his tired old "the man be keeping a brutha' down" tirades.

[Harvdog]

When did Rueben Stoddard start writing for ESPN? :P

[Terry in Crapchester]

Not surprised that Whitlock is playing the race card, although I am surprised at the angle he took. But the card that goes, "ND's firing of Ty was racist" is a bit tired to begin with. First, you can't fire a black coach if you don't hire one first; was his hiring racist? And even if you can claim racism as the result of a firing of a black coach, let's juxtapose ND's firing of Ty against New Mexico State's firing of its black head coach, at the same time. The difference? New Mexico State's head coach, who happened to be black, also happened to be the winningest head coach in that program's history. Of course, the media won't get any mileage out of calling New Mexico State out for racism.

Now, to address some of the more reasonable points Whitlock made . . .

1. ND has only beaten teams it was supposed to beat: That's a perfect example of 20/20 hindsight. Michigan was a preseason Top 5. Many had both Purdue and Pitt picked for BCS bowls at the season's start. We were underdogs to Pitt, at least in terms of the point spread, in the opener. And ESPN fearlessly predicted that we'd start the season 0-6. That some of the teams on our schedule have disappointed is not something for which we can be held responsible.

2. Weis has more talent to work with than Ty did. At least on the offensive side of the ball, I agree. What that boils down to is that Ty left the team in better shape, at least in terms of talent, than Davie did. I'm inclined to agree with that analysis. But to argue as a result that Weis' contract extension was racist is a leap of faith I'm not willing to make.

3. Ty's 8-0 start. Again, in hindsight this was largely the result of a dominating defense and some fortuitous breaks. Unfortunately, it ultimately proved to be a mirage. The last two games of the season, losses to a two-loss USC team and a Gator Bowl loss to N.C. State, were by a combined score of 75-20. And for those myopic fans like me who were inclined to view those games as aberrations at the time, the 38-0 loss to Michigan in Week Two of '03 brought us crashing back to reality. Ty would have kept the job if he'd managed to pull the program out of that tailspin, but that was not to be.

Trust me when I say that's difficult for me to admit. I'm not naive enough to believe that there wasn't a (small) portion of ND's fanbase who wanted to see Ty fail, but I was not among them. Personally, as long as we're graduating our players, obeying the NCAA rules, and winning at a pace I expect, I don't care if our football coach has the same skin color as the women Capt. Kirk used to bang on Star Trek.

Now, do I know for certain that ND won't go into a similar tailspin under Weis? Of course not, but based on what I've seen so far, a sixth sense tells me that it'd never get nearly as far under him. Let's not forget, ND's two losses this year came by a combined total of six points, and this is a team that is basically two plays away from an undefeated season so far.

The real tragedy here is that, imho, there truly is a problem, at least from a perception standpoint, with respect to racism in football coaching. Unfortunately, the media is looking in all the wrong places, and they're not helping things any as a result.

Having said all of that, I'll agree that the contract extension was probably premature. But premature does not necessarily equate to racist.

[Bizzarofelice]

PS Whitlock is a fat racist tard, it figures he's a member of the ESPN org, fits with all the rest of the blowjobbers there.

Rack. Whitlock has nothing BUT the racism card to play... that's the only way he gets any attention, and ESPN will eventually shitcan him for embarrassing them just like he did all of the radio stations he's worked for in KC.

rack to all

[Shoalzie]

Surprised it took this long till someone from the black voice cried Racism.

If Jesse Jackson wasn't so busy with the Rosa Parks memorial service, he would've gotten involved for sure.

The bottom line is that Notre Dame paid Weis only because they were afraid to lose him to the NFL. Willingham wasn't going anywhere. There aren't too many programs that a guy would leave Notre Dame for but the NFL is the next step up. The NFL wasn't knocking down Willingham's door. I wouldn't put it past Weis to be an NFL coach eventually but for now, the Irish are showing loyalty towards him with the extension. He could still get canned like Willingham if he falls on his face but right now he's royalty in South Bend. I think he needs to get a chance to recruit his own guys and we'll see if he sinks or swims.

If you look at both guys situations, neither of them were Notre Dame's first choice. Willingham was at least 3 or 4 on the list when he got the job and that's after the O'Leary incident beforehand. Weis wasn't first choice either. It was Urban Meyer's job if he wanted it. The Irish are happy at this point to be off the mat but I can see some of the arguments about how Willingham was mistreated and Weis is getting some preferential treatment. I hate throwing the 'r' word out there but if Willingham was another white guy, nobody would've put up a fuss but would he have even been fired in the first place?

[SoCalTrjn]

if he didnt point out true facts, it would be harder to spin them

[Terry in Crapchester]

He could still get canned like Willingham if he falls on his face but right now he's royalty in South Bend.

That's not entirely true. There's a segment of ND's fan base who already wants Weis fired due to the fact that he committed the unpardonable sin of [da horrah]losing a football game[/da horrah]. These are the same group of people who think that a single Notre Dame loss, ever, is res ipsa loquitur as to the incompetence of the coaching staff, no matter which coaching staff happens to be in charge.

That's definitely a small minority of ND's fan base, but I can assure you, it's out there.

[Killian]

if he didnt point out true facts, it would be harder to spin them

The facts that were acurate in that story were that Ty started 8-0 and Weis started 5-2 and that Weis got an extension. Even those don't tell the whole story. The rest of the article is void of facts and is littered with half truths.

[Degenerate]

That's not entirely true. There's a segment of ND's fan base who already wants Weis fired due to the fact that he committed the unpardonable sin of [da horrah]losing a football game[/da horrah]. These are the same group of people who think that a single Notre Dame loss, ever, is res ipsa loquitur as to the incompetence of the coaching staff, no matter which coaching staff happens to be in charge.

That's definitely a small minority of ND's fan base, but I can assure you, it's out there.

Does said fanbase ever take joy in watching ND win a football game, then?

[indyfrisco]

J.R. (NYC): Hey Jason, even though you ignored, like, six different questions I sent you, and I disagreed with your article, and I'm white, I still love you man.

Jason Whitlock: (3:09 PM ET ) love you too.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jersey: your an asshole

Jason Whitlock: (3:09 PM ET ) love you too.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

The bottom line is that Notre Dame paid Weis only because they were afraid to lose him to the NFL. Willingham wasn't going anywhere. There aren't too many programs that a guy would leave Notre Dame for but the NFL is the next step up.

This is slightly veering off topic, but I don't understand why they (ND) couldn't at least wait until the end of this season to make that offer. If he finishes with a BCS win, then this move looks very good on the part of ND. But to do it at 5-2? ND was BEGGING for this kind of backlash. I'm not saying it's justified, but I don't understand why you don't play out the end of the season. It's not likely, but it's possible he tanks, and this move looks horrible. It's not like Weis was going to bolt for the NFL after 1 year at ND anyway. Or even 2 years for that matter. Weis is not using ND as a stepping stone for the NFL. He had his success with the Patriots for that. He may, years down the road, entertain that thought after his son has graduated, but right now, he's at ND to stay. So I don't know why ND got all in a panic.

[Killian]

Does said fanbase ever take joy in watching ND win a football game, then?

Nope. Holtz said that when he was hired, he was told he had to win most of his games. He did. Then he was told he had to win all of his games. He did. Then he was told he had to win all of his games by a greater margin.

There are some that will never be happy.

[Danimal]

I'd say the difference is that you didn't see fluke wins with the D scoring and setting up the scores this year. Willingham's first team rivaled the 02 Ohio State team for lucky turns. I admit I thought Willingham was a good hire and eventually ND probably would have won a decent amount with him but I don't see them ever becoming a power again under Ty.

Plus, as was already noted, the contract extension, while premature, was basically to kill-off the talk about Weis returning to the NFl.

[Terry in Crapchester]

That's not entirely true. There's a segment of ND's fan base who already wants Weis fired due to the fact that he committed the unpardonable sin of [da horrah]losing a football game[/da horrah]. These are the same group of people who think that a single Notre Dame loss, ever, is res ipsa loquitur as to the incompetence of the coaching staff, no matter which coaching staff happens to be in charge.

That's definitely a small minority of ND's fan base, but I can assure you, it's out there.

Does said fanbase ever take joy in watching ND win a football game, then?

That's one of the drawbacks of being a Notre Dame fan. A win is a reprieve, nothing more. A loss is beyond devastating.

Truth be told, I've been thinking seriously that perhaps I shouldn't be a college football fan anymore because I take the losses much too hard, and get relatively little joy from the victories. I've heard people say they want the losses to hurt. I respect that, but here's a different take: I don't want a loss to hurt to the point where it threatens to adversely affect my marriage, or my relationship with my children (especially given that my son is a special-needs child), or my productivity at work. On the other hand, I have a deep tie to Notre Dame as a lifelong fan and alum. I probably couldn't break away completely if I wanted to, and even if I could, it would pain me to no end. So I guess I have a real dilemma on my hands, at least until they revise the system so that a single loss doesn't destroy your entire season.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

Wow. I can't imagine a football game negatively affecting your marriage, job, fatherhood, etc. That's one hardcore fan.

[Terry in Crapchester]

Wow. I can't imagine a football game negatively affecting your marriage, job, fatherhood, etc. That's one hardcore fan.

What can I say? A loss pisses me off to no end. I'm not much fun to be around after one.

It doesn't have to be that way, though. In a different season, one loss would be no big deal.

[JHawkBCD]

Wow. I can't imagine a football game negatively affecting your marriage, job, fatherhood, etc. That's one hardcore fan.

Or a fan desparately craving a bullet sandwich for lunch.

[Terry in Crapchester]

T-

I was driving around with a friend after the OU-TCU game this year and he made the comment that he didn't have anything that he cared about as much as I did OU football. I commented that that was a little strange, as he had a wife and kid.

Anyhow, it's pretty obvious that I take OU losses pretty hard. I've developed a way to minimize their impact on my life, though.

Step one: Post a sack-up thread as soon as possible. It's kind of cathartic. Then turn off the computer for a while and clean the house or something.

Step two: Don't watch any recap shows or read any of the stories about the loss. You know why they lost, you don't need to relive it every time you read something about it.

Step three: Kiss your wife and tell her how lucky you are she's in your life. I know when I kiss your wife and tell her this, it makes my whole day go smoother. ;)

Works every time for me.

Didn't know you had a special-needs child. My father was a career special educator.

He's ADHD, and there's a fear that he's bipolar. He's actually very intelligent, though -- my guess is that he has a genius- or near-genius level IQ.

My uncle is bipolar, and I also have a client who's combination ADHD/bipolar. Basically a good kid, but got into trouble with drugs due to efforts to self-medicate. He went through Drug Court, made every effort to rehabilitate, but the addiction was so strong that he couldn't make it through. So he's now in state prison.

I hope to God and GOD that my son is not bipolar. From what I've seen of it, I'd rather be dead than bipolar.

[War Wagon]

Step one: Post a sack-up thread as soon as possible. It's kind of cathartic. Then turn off the computer for a while and clean the house or something.

Step two: Don't watch any recap shows or read any of the stories about the loss. You know why they lost, you don't need to relive it every time you read something about it.

For me, step two is a continuation of step one, to a degree. I used to just turn off the whole fucking world after a particularly devastating loss, and roll over the morning paper the next day.

Thing is, it NEVER worked. The loss still stung just as badly, and trying to hide from it only made it worse.

These boards have made it somewhat easier to deal with. I can come in here and vent, or take my medicine, or whatever...and just move on.

Now, I'm not saying I go out of my way to read/watch/hear about the loss, but I don't have to cover my eyes and ears and hum "nanananananananananana" these days.

Sin,
Suicidal Chiefs fan thrice over.

[Vito Corleone]

Notre Dame reminds me of the New York Knicks. Those pukes have all the money in the world and they mismanage the hell out of it cause they know they are the only basketball game in town and no matter how shitty they are they still will draw a crowd.

The funny thing is they see their problems and they throw money at it and when they think they have a winner they throw tons on money at it. Then when they realize they don't have a winner they dump it and thow money at the next would be winner.

I think Weis is going to be a good coach but to get a raise this fast is stupid. Fact is Ty is a good coach who wasn't given a fair chance to prove himself and then they bring in this guy who hasn't proven himself and throw money at him for doing less than Ty did.

Well as long as they keep acting like the Knicks I won't ever worry about ND

[Killian]

Fact is Ty is a good coach who wasn't given a fair chance to prove himself

Read my sig and then go google "Weis leave NFL" and "Willingham leave NFL" to get your answer.

And that was a great analogy, because Notre Dame is known to throw money around. I guess as long as Mack Brown is at Texas, I only have to worry about them when OU is having a down year.

Still a bitter taste from 1969?

[Terry in Crapchester]

And that was a great analogy, because Notre Dame is known to throw money around.

Not sure if you were joking or not, but certainly there was a time when that wasn't true at all. In fact, back in my day as a student (God, I sound like an old fart when I say that), ND had a policy that it would not pay its head football coach more than its highest paid professor. Perhaps that explains how we wound up with Gerry Faust. Certainly, it was a noble idea, but not a very practical one when your fan base expects you to contend for the national championship on a regular basis.

Btw, Vito's comparison of ND to the Knicks was weak (as a Knicks fan back in the day when the NBA was still watchable, I'm in very good position to comment on this). The Knicks won only two NBA championships in their history; they were four years apart (1970 and 1973) and won in an error when the stars aligned to give the Knicks a great team of all-around players without superstars: Dave DeBuscherre (sp?) and Bill Bradley at forwards, Willis Reed at center, Walt Frazier and Dick Barnett (1970)/Earl Monroe (1973) at guards. By contrast, ND has a slew of national championships, and certainly has mad 'bode over Texas in that department.

Also, Vito's still bitter about '77 as well, assuming he was even alive back then.

[Degenerate]

Perhaps that explains how we wound up with Gerry Faust.

Guy goes from high school straight to Notre Dame HC.

I'll take Things We'll Never See Again for $1,000.

[Killian]

Terry,

Yeah, I was being very sarcastic. Especially considering Holtz was one of the lowest paid head coaches when he started and ND was always known for paying their assistants shit.

[Nolesy]

T-



Didn't know you had a special-needs child. My father was a career special educator.

I too have a special needs child. Also spent 15 years in special ed. both as a teacher and an administrator.

[Terry in Crapchester]

Terry,

Yeah, I was being very sarcastic. Especially considering Holtz was one of the lowest paid head coaches when he started and ND was always known for paying their assistants shit.

True, I hadn't thought about that. IIRC, Weis took less pay than was offered with the proviso that his assistants would be paid more.

Don't know exactly where Weis ranks in terms of pay for D-1A head coaches, but I know he's not close to the top, at least not in terms of actual dollars earned.

[T REX]

Not to get involved but Mike and Mike had a segment this morning on TY vs Weis first season.........

TY played like 6 out 8 teams that were in bowl game that year. The teams had some ridiculous record way over .500 while Weis's opponents records were at or sub .500. Why didn't Ty get the mid-season extension? Why did Weis? We are all in agreement that while the team has played better they haven't done anything outstanding....

96th DEFENSE? That gets you 10 years?

Interesting.....while I do not think race played an issue, I think it looks desperate more than anything else.

[Terry in Crapchester]

Not to get involved but Mike and Mike had a segment this morning on TY vs Weis first season.........

TY played like 6 out 8 teams that were in bowl game that year. The teams had some ridiculous record way over .500 while Weis's opponents records were at or sub .500. Why didn't Ty get the mid-season extension? Why did Weis?

Here's one thing that I think is getting overlooked. Under Ty in '02, we started off with wins over Maryland (coming off a BCS bid the previous year) and Michigan (expected by some to contend for the national championship in '02). After that, it seemed that we began to regress slowly, even though we won the first eight games.

By contrast, under Weis this year the team seems to be getting better every week. Even the loss to Michigan State was something that we could take a positive from. Early on, that game looked to be a blowout, but we hung tough and fought our way back to a tie and forced OT. Under Davie or Ty, we would've started to hang our heads in the 3rd quarter, and the rout would have been on.

And while there has been a lot of criticism of ND's schedule this season, let's not forget that ESPN was predicting that we'd start the year 0-6 (how they figured a loss to Washington was totally beyond me). Yes, some of the teams on our schedule have disappointed, but even so, I believe Sagarin still has us ranked as the 5th toughest schedule in the country. How much more difficult does our schedule have to be to convince the doubters?

We are all in agreement that while the team has played better they haven't done anything outstanding....

96th DEFENSE? That gets you 10 years?

A couple of points on this:

1. The defensive unit lost a number of starters from last year's team.

2. The defensive ranking is somewhat misleading. Weis isn't into winning games 59-0. Once he has a lead of 21 points, he's more than willing to trade scores with an opponent, provided that in doing so, ND's defense doesn't give up the big play, and forces the opponent to burn the clock to get its score.

3. I don't have the stats in front of me, but I'm willing to bet that in '02 our offense wasn't ranked much better than 96th nationally.

[SoCalTrjn]

Weis is a Domer and Ty never was, its not rocket science to figure out that Cheesesteak Charlie got the good ole boy deal because he is a Domer and Token Ty was an outsider