bush approval rating at 37 percent

mothster · Post by **mothster** » Fri Nov 04, 2005 2:23 pm

proof positive that good economic news is not as sexy as it used to be

DrDetroit · Post by **DrDetroit** » Fri Nov 04, 2005 5:16 pm

Oh shit...the media and the Democrats have simply been ignoring or lying about the economy for three years now.

You hear very little about an expanding economy and then when you do it's whitewashed with bullshit about the budget deficit (which hasn't seemd to do shit to this economy), bullshit about the national debt (ditto), or bullshit about exporting jobs (while ignoring the net benefit of that export and ignoring the import of jobs).

You hear very little of the consistently improving job situation and when you do you hear the usual carping of the discouraged worker, suggestions that the numbers are cooked, or that the America job market allegedly has been completely transformed in five years.

No vision and no ideas...that's why they do it.

BSmack · Post by **BSmack** » Fri Nov 04, 2005 5:49 pm

DrDetroit wrote:You hear very little about an expanding economy...

You know why? Here's why.

Bizzarofelice · Post by **Bizzarofelice** » Fri Nov 04, 2005 5:56 pm

DrDetroit wrote: bullshit about exporting jobs (while ignoring the net benefit of that export and ignoring the import of jobs).

Link?

You hear very little of the consistently improving job situation

I laughed.

Mister Bushice · Post by **Mister Bushice** » Fri Nov 04, 2005 7:59 pm

Just because corporate America is doing well why expect the middle class to feel the same benefits they do. Prices are up and wages are not. Hell, only 12 percent of Californians can afford to buy a house here. Material costs alone are high. Add to that the fuel costs, and the resultant increase in prices of everything delivered by trucks, and the so called "robust economy" is not trickling down very well.

But hell, at least the numbers on paper look good. :roll:

mothster · Post by **mothster** » Fri Nov 04, 2005 8:13 pm

the numbers indicate the economy is growing despite iraq and katrina....

looking big picture here

normally that deserves props from americans who vote their wallet

DrDetroit · Post by **DrDetroit** » Fri Nov 04, 2005 8:20 pm

And Americans do recognize it, no matter whether the media nor the Democrats demonize it.

Bushice...the real estate market in California is not representative of the rest of the country and neither is a right to live there. lets face it, if people simply cannot affor to live there, then they have to make a hard decision. The economy does not exist simply to provide us with housing wherever we demand.

BSmack · Post by **BSmack** » Fri Nov 04, 2005 8:22 pm

mothster wrote:the numbers indicate the economy is growing despite iraq and katrina....

looking big picture here

normally that deserves props from americans who vote their wallet

And it would. Except their real wages are not growing at the rate of the economy. Care to hazzard where the rest of that growth is going?

DrDetroit · Post by **DrDetroit** » Fri Nov 04, 2005 8:23 pm

Explain, B.

DrDetroit · Post by **DrDetroit** » Fri Nov 04, 2005 8:26 pm

Over the last ten years the GNP has expanded a little over 6% while wages have expanded almost 4%. How is this a recent phenomenom?

BSmack · Post by **BSmack** » Fri Nov 04, 2005 8:42 pm

DrDetroit wrote:Explain, B.

Any questions?

mothster · Post by **mothster** » Fri Nov 04, 2005 8:45 pm

the real estate market in California is not representative of the rest of the country and neither is a right to live there

^^^^true dat------california, and most beachfornt property, is an anomally

Mister Bushice · Post by **Mister Bushice** » Fri Nov 04, 2005 8:55 pm

DrDetroit wrote:And Americans do recognize it, no matter whether the media nor the Democrats demonize it.

Bushice...the real estate market in California is not representative of the rest of the country and neither is a right to live there. lets face it, if people simply cannot affor to live there, then they have to make a hard decision. The economy does not exist simply to provide us with housing wherever we demand.

Funny - I have east coast family members who constantly tell me how out of sight the real estate market is.

Besides, wages are also higher here, but still the housing market is driven by material costs and need, just like everywhere else, but even still the wages can't keep up.

So what if I can buy a 6 acre lot with a house in bum fuck mississippi for $40,000. There aren't any jobs with sufficient wages there to support the average person, either.

Mister Bushice · Post by **Mister Bushice** » Fri Nov 04, 2005 9:00 pm

mothster wrote:the real estate market in California is not representative of the rest of the country and neither is a right to live there

^^^^true dat------california, and most beachfornt property, is an anomally

It's not just the beach front. I live in an inland valley outside the city, and they're selling 3 bedroom houses here on 1/8 acre lots for 400,000 and up.

In the san fernando valley, you can't touch a piece of shit 40 year old 2 bedroom one bath house for under $300,000. The average middle class worker does not make enough money to afford it.

up in this shithole town called salinas in monterey county 30 miles from the ocean the houses START at $500,000. They average 26 murders there annually from all the gangs that run there.

The solution most middle to low income people come up with is two or more families in one 3 bedrom home. It's the only way they can swing a $3,000 mortgage.

No reggie white resets, please ;)

mothster · Post by **mothster** » Fri Nov 04, 2005 9:06 pm

it's kalifornia :wink:

DrDetroit · Post by **DrDetroit** » Fri Nov 04, 2005 9:17 pm

Bushice...me, too. I have family that live on the east coast in and around Boston and NYC. Of course, it is expensive to live in and around both places. Again, though, it's not representative of the entire country.

BTW - are you going to reduce the asking price of your house when you put it on the market? Of course not...you're going to hose the buyer as much as possible.

Think about that when you complain about gasoline prices. You won't bitch about housing prices because you know you will be able to do it, too, but you'll whine about gasoline prices won't you?

Mister Bushice · Post by **Mister Bushice** » Fri Nov 04, 2005 9:58 pm

DrDetroit wrote:Bushice...me, too. I have family that live on the east coast in and around Boston and NYC. Of course, it is expensive to live in and around both places. Again, though, it's not representative of the entire country.

but it is. In and around major cities, housing prices are very high. out in the middle of no where they aren't because there are no jobs to support those prices.

BTW - are you going to reduce the asking price of your house when you put it on the market? Of course not...you're going to hose the buyer as much as possible.

That's not a factor. If no one buys it, you are forced to reduce. because mortgage prices are going up the only flexibility sellers have IS the price, and even here we're beginning to see houses taking longer and longer to sell, because people can't afford to buy them.

The newly built housing prices will begin to drop when sales fall off. The asking prices far exceed the costs for those average subdivisions

Think about that when you complain about gasoline prices. You won't bitch about housing prices because you know you will be able to do it, too, but you'll whine about gasoline prices won't you?

No, I don't whine about gas prices, but I ain't too fond of seeing corporate america make record profits at our expense all the while claiming their costs have increased.

DrDetroit · Post by **DrDetroit** » Fri Nov 04, 2005 10:12 pm

but it is. In and around major cities, housing prices are very high. out in the middle of no where they aren't because there are no jobs to support those prices.

Present your data then.

And define what "very high" is.

That's not a factor. If no one buys it, you are forced to reduce. because mortgage prices are going up the only flexibility sellers have IS the price, and even here we're beginning to see houses taking longer and longer to sell, because people can't afford to buy them.

The newly built housing prices will begin to drop when sales fall off. The asking prices far exceed the costs for those average subdivisions

Sorry, but this housing price bubble that liberal economists have been whining about for five years doesn't exist. Hosuing sales are still strong and new housing starts are increasing ever qaurter.

No, I don't whine about gas prices, but I ain't too fond of seeing corporate america make record profits at our expense all the while claiming their costs have increased.

Hypocrite. You'll whine about gas companies doing exactly what you'd do...maximize profits.

BTW - gasoline costs have increased...you don't see a 65% increase in oil prices and see little change at the pump.

Mister Bushice · Post by **Mister Bushice** » Fri Nov 04, 2005 10:29 pm

DrDetroit wrote:
but it is. In and around major cities, housing prices are very high. out in the middle of no where they aren't because there are no jobs to support those prices.
Present your data then.

And define what "very high" is.

I've read articles on it, but looking up details is gonna take me time.

That's not a factor. If no one buys it, you are forced to reduce. because mortgage prices are going up the only flexibility sellers have IS the price, and even here we're beginning to see houses taking longer and longer to sell, because people can't afford to buy them.

The newly built housing prices will begin to drop when sales fall off. The asking prices far exceed the costs for those average subdivisions
Sorry, but this housing price bubble that liberal economists have been whining about for five years doesn't exist. Hosuing sales are still strong and new housing starts are increasing ever qaurter.

I'll bet you'll see new house prices begin to dip as mortgage rates go up. Also, sales of existing homes will slow.

No, I don't whine about gas prices, but I ain't too fond of seeing corporate america make record profits at our expense all the while claiming their costs have increased.
Hypocrite. You'll whine about gas companies doing exactly what you'd do...maximize profits.

There's no comparison there. The gas companies should make a profit, but a 10 BILLION dollar profit in one quarter?

If I own a house in a very desirable location, demand will be high, and thus the price will go up. I cannot, however, gouge the market by overpricing it because the market will determine the price, not me.

The oil companies are a part of determining the cost of gas. If the market did, then gas prices would be slightly lower, and oil company profits would be not be at record levels. Obviously they artificially inflated the price of gas above what was necessary, or they wouldn't be experiencing record profit levels. That can't happen in a house sale.

BTW - gasoline costs have increased...you don't see a 65% increase in oil prices and see little change at the pump.

Of course, but if the price of oil goes up by 65%, the price of gas should not go up by 80%. That's just the middle men profiting excessively at the end users expense.

Gunslinger · Post by **Gunslinger** » Sat Nov 05, 2005 1:16 am

BSmack wrote:
DrDetroit wrote:You hear very little about an expanding economy...
You know why? Here's why.

If you think that is fucked up, you should see Dr. Detroit's company's profits to expenses the last 7 years.

The only job that Dr. Detroit could have that allows the possibility of posting and not getting fired is a Used Car Salesman.

Funny that he is a burden to his company and has his philosophy. He's as bad as those nig gers he despises.

BSmack · Post by **BSmack** » Sat Nov 05, 2005 1:50 am

DrDetroit wrote:
but it is. In and around major cities, housing prices are very high. out in the middle of no where they aren't because there are no jobs to support those prices.
Present your data then.

And define what "very high" is.

You've got to be kidding me.

You see, this is why I don't even bother trying to have a reasonable debate with you any more. You take self evident statement s and demand proofs when there is not fucking need for it. Any idiot other than yourself knows damn well that housing markets in major metro areas (where most of the jobs are) are fucking horrendous for buyers. Conversely, rural areas (where there are few, if any jobs) offer dirt cheap housing. This is one of the paradoxes that has served to drive up our consumption of oil as people move further and further from their places of employment in search of affordable housing. .

If you don't belive it, do a fucking real estate search and get back to the group. But in the meantime, why don't you try an honest response to Bushice's post? I, for one, would sincerely like to see it.

BSmack · Post by **BSmack** » Sat Nov 05, 2005 1:52 am

Gunslinger wrote:Funny that he is a burden to his company and has his philosophy. He's as bad as those nig gers he despises.

Nice job giving the racists more ammo. Thanks for nothing.

Variable · Post by **Variable** » Sat Nov 05, 2005 2:36 am

Detroit wrote:Sorry, but this housing price bubble that liberal economists have been whining about for five years doesn't exist. Hosuing sales are still strong and new housing starts are increasing ever qaurter.

The new houses will hold their value(to a point), but the POS condo in the ghetto that's currently selling for $300,000 in OC will be worth half that as mortgage rates continue to rise. THAT'S a bubble. Additionally, there are 1200 sq ft bandboxes built in the 1950's in OC that are going for more than $600,000. Sorry, but those houses aren't going to hold their value either. THAT'S a bubble.

BSmack wrote:You see, this is why I don't even bother trying to have a reasonable debate with you any more. You take self evident statement s and demand proofs when there is not fucking need for it. Any idiot other than yourself knows damn well that housing markets in major metro areas (where most of the jobs are) are fucking horrendous for buyers. Conversely, rural areas (where there are few, if any jobs) offer dirt cheap housing. This is one of the paradoxes that has served to drive up our consumption of oil as people move further and further from their places of employment in search of affordable housing. .

RACK. Well said top to bottom.

DrDetroit · Post by **DrDetroit** » Sat Nov 05, 2005 3:08 am

B:

You see, this is why I don't even bother trying to have a reasonable debate with you any more. You take self evident statement s and demand proofs when there is not fucking need for it.

Um, Bushice was arguing that housing rates are "out-of sight" across the country. That is not self-evident. That is not the case here and around Detroit, for example. It ain't the case around the larger cities in Ohio. In Chicago, housing prices certainly are high for obvious reasons, just as they are in NY, Boston, LA, Houston, etc. But that is not the case all across the country, which is what Bushice is arguing.

If this is so fucking self-eviden than I would expect that the data is easily fucking available.

Any idiot other than yourself knows damn well that housing markets in major metro areas (where most of the jobs are) are fucking horrendous for buyers.

I didn't disagree you fucking chimp. Didn't you read my post?

Conversely, rural areas (where there are few, if any jobs) offer dirt cheap housing.

Where did I disagree with this?

You see, dumbshit..., I told Bushice that housing price issue in the major metro areas are not representative of the entire country. He responded, "but it is."

So, wtf are you arguing about? I certainly didn't disagree with anything you just posted, just as I didn't agree with Bushice in that regard.

But he said those housing prices in NYC, LA, Chicago are representative of the rest of the country.

That's wrong.

And you know that, that's why you ducked it.

Variable, you just got your ass shucked by B...

Variable · Post by **Variable** » Sat Nov 05, 2005 3:20 am

Variable, you just got your ass shucked by B...

Houses in more rural areas, while they may be more affordable relative to the suburbs or major metropolitan areas, are still high relative to the local citizen's ability to afford them. Sure, you or I could afford a palace in those areas because we make "big city" wages. But although a 6 br 4,000 sq ft house in rural Texas may go for $180,000, there are very few people in that area that can afford that house. THAT'S a bubble.

BSmack · Post by **BSmack** » Sat Nov 05, 2005 3:21 am

^^^^^^^^^^ Has been reduced to arguing with himself.

Mister Bushice · Post by **Mister Bushice** » Sat Nov 05, 2005 4:00 am

DrDetroit wrote:B:
You see, this is why I don't even bother trying to have a reasonable debate with you any more. You take self evident statement s and demand proofs when there is not fucking need for it.

Um, Bushice was arguing that housing rates are "out-of sight" across the country. That is not self-evident. That is not the case here and around Detroit, for example. It ain't the case around the larger cities in Ohio. In Chicago, housing prices certainly are high for obvious reasons, just as they are in NY, Boston, LA, Houston, etc. But that is not the case all across the country, which is what Bushice is arguing.

No it's not what I was arguing. Bsmack outlined it quite well, you are just unable or unwilling to see it:

Bushice wrote:but it is. In and around major cities, housing prices are very high. out in the middle of no where they aren't because there are no jobs to support those prices.

How much more black and white could I possibly make it?

If this is so fucking self-eviden than I would expect that the data is easily fucking available.

It is. You just refuse to see it.

Any idiot other than yourself knows damn well that housing markets in major metro areas (where most of the jobs are) are fucking horrendous for buyers.

I didn't disagree you fucking chimp. Didn't you read my post?

You did. How can you not see that?

Conversely, rural areas (where there are few, if any jobs) offer dirt cheap housing.

Where did I disagree with this?

When you failed to understand what I wrote.

You see, dumbshit..., I told Bushice that housing price issue in the major metro areas are not representative of the entire country. He responded, "but it is."

So, wtf are you arguing about? I certainly didn't disagree with anything you just posted, just as I didn't agree with Bushice in that regard.

But he said those housing prices in NYC, LA, Chicago are representative of the rest of the country.

That's wrong.

And you know that, that's why you ducked it.

Actually, most people duck your posts because they have more success arguing with a brick wall. when you're wrong you justify. when you fail to understand, everyone else is wrong. When facts slap you in the face you don't address them.

That is just the way it is with you.

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Sat Nov 05, 2005 4:44 am

Hmmmmm.....

As a telecommuter I should probably move to Omaha. I could make SoCal wages and pay Heartland mortgage.

Fuck, I could probably save $1500/month on mortgage payments alone.

Is living in Paradise really worth it? I'm starting to wonder...

tough love · Post by **tough love** » Sat Nov 05, 2005 11:30 am

Apparently; your Bu$hs' approval rating sucks in Argentina as well.

http://www.channel4.com/news/content/ne ... id=1192062

Bush welcomed by violent protests

GO Chavez...Go home Bu$h.

BSmack · Post by **BSmack** » Sat Nov 05, 2005 2:25 pm

Mikey wrote:Hmmmmm.....

As a telecommuter I should probably move to Omaha. I could make SoCal wages and pay Heartland mortgage.

Fuck, I could probably save $1500/month on mortgage payments alone.

Is living in Paradise really worth it? I'm starting to wonder...

At the very least you could save a mint moving to say Tuscon, Phoenix Flagstaff or ABQ. I'm sure all 3 offer real estate substantaily cheaper than Cali.

Variable · Post by **Variable** » Sat Nov 05, 2005 5:53 pm

Why not just move into a pizza oven? It'd be cheaper and the weather would be just like AZ. :D

Actually, the OL and I have been contemplating a move to Texas so that we can take care of her mom and the land she owns. The OL telecommutes, so it's only me that'd have to find a job. Our mortgage payment would be less than 1/3 what it is right now for the same house.

Mister Bushice · Post by **Mister Bushice** » Sat Nov 05, 2005 6:54 pm

BSmack wrote:
Mikey wrote:Hmmmmm.....

As a telecommuter I should probably move to Omaha. I could make SoCal wages and pay Heartland mortgage.

Fuck, I could probably save $1500/month on mortgage payments alone.

Is living in Paradise really worth it? I'm starting to wonder...
At the very least you could save a mint moving to say Tuscon, Phoenix Flagstaff or ABQ. I'm sure all 3 offer real estate substantaily cheaper than Cali.

Housing prices in and around the major AZ cities are comparably high, given the environment being hell on earth for several months a year.

BSmack · Post by **BSmack** » Sat Nov 05, 2005 7:07 pm

Mister Bushice wrote:Housing prices in and around the major AZ cities are comparably high, given the environment being hell on earth for several months a year.

If it were up to me, I'd check out ABQ-Santa Fe area. I just mentioned AZ because some of y'all seem to love the heat. AZ isn't any worse than Omaha in the summer.

Mister Bushice · Post by **Mister Bushice** » Sat Nov 05, 2005 7:40 pm

Omaha gets up to 118 degrees?

BSmack · Post by **BSmack** » Sat Nov 05, 2005 8:25 pm

Mister Bushice wrote:Omaha gets up to 118 degrees?

After 95, who the fuck is counting? Your ass is indoors with the AC on. The difference is, no blizzards in Phoenix.

Mister Bushice · Post by **Mister Bushice** » Sat Nov 05, 2005 8:41 pm

I can handle the desert heeat just fine up to about 100-102. After that, it gets melty.

It's pretty trippy to be in Vegas in July and have the temp be 108 at midnight.

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Sat Nov 05, 2005 10:21 pm

It's a dry heat...

Variable · Post by **Variable** » Mon Nov 07, 2005 6:31 pm

BSmack wrote:
Mister Bushice wrote:Omaha gets up to 118 degrees?
After 95, who the fuck is counting? Your ass is indoors with the AC on. The difference is, no blizzards in Phoenix.

Speaking as someone who has lived in areas that get some serious heat, there isn't a whole lot of difference between about 95-105, but anything above that is at a whole other level. It was 118 in my hometown one day and believe me, it's a huge difference from even 110.

BSmack · Post by **BSmack** » Mon Nov 07, 2005 6:38 pm

Variable wrote:
BSmack wrote:
Mister Bushice wrote:Omaha gets up to 118 degrees?
After 95, who the fuck is counting? Your ass is indoors with the AC on. The difference is, no blizzards in Phoenix.
Speaking as someone who has lived in areas that get some serious heat, there isn't a whole lot of difference between about 95-105, but anything above that is at a whole other level. It was 118 in my hometown one day and believe me, it's a huge difference from even 110.

The hottest day I've ever seen was 117 when I was in Tempe. The only difference between that day and a 105 degree day was that I didn't bother to go outside for a swim that day. Other than that is was AC all the way. It's like being up north in the winter. Once it gets below 10 degrees, the rest is all relative.

Variable · Post by **Variable** » Mon Nov 07, 2005 7:30 pm

BSmack wrote: The hottest day I've ever seen was 117 when I was in Tempe. The only difference between that day and a 105 degree day was that I didn't bother to go outside for a swim that day. Other than that is was AC all the way. It's like being up north in the winter. Once it gets below 10 degrees, the rest is all relative.

The difference is in the humidity. I grew up near Sacramento in the San Joaquin valley where the humidity is brutal in the summer. So you can imagine what the heat index is like when the thermometer says 118.

I was an auto parts driver in Sacramento during August one year when there was a week of temps over 110. The truck I was driving was a POS Ford Ranger with vinyl seats and no A/C. Sweat a bit some? I used to kill an entire gallon of water in an 8 hour shift and not even have to piss most of the time. That's one of those situations where you just crank up some Ozzy and get pissed off at the world to get yourself through it. I found that cutting off soccer moms in minivans really helps keep the morale up.