Super Bowl for Kansas City

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RadioFan
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Post by RadioFan »

JHawkBCD wrote:This "rolling roof" horseshit isn't the right situation.
Agree, but for maybe different reasons.

Arrowhead is a fucking Cathedral to me. Put a roof on it and you may as well put a roof on the Coliseum (no, tards, not the one in LA, the one in Rome), just to make a few thousand rich people feel "comfortable."

FUCK that and FUCK this proposal.

This is FOOTBALL we're talking about, right?

I mean ... I'm really, really sorry that someone like RJ would be deprived of the skanks who just happen to be on their post- 2-day benders ... errr, the daughters of "football fans" and millionaires who are just in SD for "business," and all, but let's get real here.
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Post by JHawkBCD »

The true beauty is that Wyandotte County could wind up getting over once again.

All of your collective Missourian penis envy for Johnson County and all of its growth has blinded you from the true threat to taking the Chiefs out of Missouri.

Get your acts together and demand a plan that benefits more than just Lamar Hunt, and we'll have your backs... otherwise, quit your vaginal dripping.
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chowd103
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Post by chowd103 »

Image


^Thats a pretty funny rendition.

I say do it.
They play regular season games there. They've been talking about hosting it in NY....'scuse me, NJ, so why not in some tent in KC?
Image
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War Wagon
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Post by War Wagon »

JHawkBCD wrote:
Get your acts together and demand a plan that benefits more than just Lamar Hunt, and we'll have your backs...
Umm, not really sure that we want or expect anyone to have our backs here. We're not asking for charity. What we want should be what everyone in the KC metro wants. What benefits us all.

What we want is to keep the Chiefs and Royals in Kansas City. If that takes bending snobbish KS taxpayers over a whole fucking 1/4 of a cent sales tax barrel while they bitch and moan incessantly, then so be it.
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Post by The Assassin »

chowd103 wrote:Image


^Thats a pretty funny rendition.

I say do it.
They play regular season games there. They've been talking about hosting it in NY....'scuse me, NJ, so why not in some tent in KC?

dont you usually park airplanes in one of those things??
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JHawkBCD
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Post by JHawkBCD »

War Wagon wrote:What we want is to keep the Chiefs and Royals in Kansas City. If that takes bending snobbish KS taxpayers over a whole fucking 1/4 of a cent sales tax barrel while they bitch and moan incessantly, then so be it.
It takes coming up with a plan that has more substance and future yield than the welfare-like packages (like the Bi-State tax that was soundly defeated), in which case, we'd be happy to vote in a one cent sales tax. Unfortunately, your "boys" (sup Zyclone Wagon?) on the JCSCA ain't the ones to responsibly get the job done with the cash.

Wanna keep bitching about us "tightwad Kansans"? Then make the committee that authorizes the spending of the cash bi-state as well. Pretty goddamn foolish, if you ask me, to think that ANYONE would blindly throw cash at this money pit without having a voice in how it's spent.
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Post by War Wagon »

JHawkBCD wrote: ...we'd be happy to vote in a one cent sales tax.
one cent?

Hell, for a one cent sales tax, we'd be happy to build a Gateway fucking Arch right over the Lewis and Clarke viaduct if it would molify you bitches...
Wanna keep bitching about us "tightwad Kansans"? Then make the committee that authorizes the spending of the cash bi-state as well. Pretty goddamn foolish, if you ask me, to think that ANYONE would blindly throw cash at this money pit without having a voice in how it's spent.
Absolutely.

Anyone who is putting up caysh has a right to determine how it's spent.

Truman has a parking spot staked out right near to the stadium. For a "yes" vote, I'm sure he'd let you park next to him.
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Post by War Wagon »

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Post by KC Scott »

Figures Chode wouldn't address the "your" team issue when the bills are due.

It also figures he'd support building a stadium in and references the speedaway in Wyandotte County when he lives in Johnson County.

---------------------

As for having Kansas representation on the Sports Authority, I'm all for it if they are in for paying their fair share.

No taxation without representation
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Post by JHawkBCD »

KC Scott wrote:As for having Kansas representation on the Sports Authority, I'm all for it if they are in for paying their fair share.

No taxation without representation
That's been a major sticking point for the previous Bi-State initiatives involving the sports complex - they keep the decision making power with Whitey Wagon's "Holy 5" (aka the JCSCA), and don't allow the other participating counties to have a say. Subsequently, resounding defeat occurs, and the Whiteys of the metro area make excuses for the failure by playing the "tightwad Kansans" card.

Again, it doesn't take a rocket-powered-forklift scientist to see the problem here.
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Post by KC Scott »

JHawkBCD wrote:
KC Scott wrote:As for having Kansas representation on the Sports Authority, I'm all for it if they are in for paying their fair share.

No taxation without representation
That's been a major sticking point for the previous Bi-State initiatives involving the sports complex - they keep the decision making power with Whitey Wagon's "Holy 5" (aka the JCSCA), and don't allow the other participating counties to have a say. Subsequently, resounding defeat occurs, and the Whiteys of the metro area make excuses for the failure by playing the "tightwad Kansans" card.

Again, it doesn't take a rocket-powered-forklift scientist to see the problem here.

I can't respond to your message until Sunday, Welcher

Ooops....... guess I already did. :wink:


Here's the wording of the Bi State II Ballot
Bi-State II Ballot
(as it will appear on the November 2, 2004 ballot)
Shall a retail sales tax of one-fourth (1/4) of one cent be levied and collected in Kansas and Missouri metropolitan culture district (“Bistate Metropolitan District”) consisting of Johnson County, Kansas, and Jackson County, Missouri, and other such counties which are or may become part of the Bistate Metropolitan District and which and which authorize this tax to be levied (each a Participating County), including the counties of Clay and Platte in Missouri and Wyandotte in Kansas? This proposed tax shall not be effective until approved by a majority of the qualified electors in Johnson County, Kansas, in Jackson County, Missouri, and Clay County, Missouri, and shall thereafter expire as specified in this ballot question. The revenues collected annually from this tax shall be allocated, administered, and disbursed by the Bistate Commission in the manner and for the purposes prescribed below, which purposes may include the payment of principal of, interest on and financing costs with respect to bonds issued or indebtedness incurred by other public entities in support of the sports facilities projects specified below.

(a) Arts and Culture Share. One-half of all revenues collected annually from this proposed Bistate Metropolitan District tax shall be dedicated to metropolitan and local arts and cultural organizations, facilities and activities (exclusive of sports), including those that contribute to or enhance public appreciation of and access to the arts and cultural amenities and activities, and shall be further allocated as follows:

(b) In each of the first four years of the tax, $12,500,000 from the Arts and Culture share, aggregating $50,000,000 in total, shall be allocated for the Metropolitan Kansas City Performing Arts Center, Inc. to be used by it in conjunction with other private and public funds, to construct, furnish and equip the Performing Arts Center to be located in downtown Kansas City, Missouri.

The remaining annual revenues from the Arts and Cultural Share shall be divided as follows:

(a) (i)Fifty percent (50%) shall be allocated to support, enhance and sustain those regional arts and cultural organizations, facilities and activities serving the Bistate Metropolitan District as are approved by the Bistate Commission upon recommendations of its Advisory Committee, and

(b) (ii)Fifty percent (50%) shall be allocated as follow and used to support, enhance, and sustain those arts and cultural organizations, facilities and activities serving a Participating County as are approved by the Bistate Commission upon the recommendations of its Advisory Committee and those of a Citizens Advisory Committee for each Participating Committee established pursuant to guidelines articulated by the Bistate Commission.

(x) In each of the first ten years of the tax, $5,000,000 shall be allocated to construct, furnish and equip arts and cultural facilities, and aggregate of $25,000,000 of which shall be expended within one or more of the Participating Counties in Missouri, and

(y) The remaining annual revenues from this portion of the Arts and Culture Share shall be allocated among the Participating Counties on a pro rata basis according to the percentage of annual total revenues collected from each Participating County.

Sports Facilities Share. One-half of all revenues collected annually from this proposed BiState Metropolitan District tax shall be dedicated to sports facilities and further allocated as follows:

(a) One-half of the Sports Facilities Share shall be used by the Bistate Commission, upon the recommendations of a Metropolitan Stadium Improvements Board (“Board”) established by the Bistate Commission and composed of representatives from the participating counties, to provide project funding in an amount not to exceed $180,000,000 plus related debt service and financing costs, to be used in conjunction with other private and public funds to renovate, remodel, expand, upgrade, furnish and equip Arrowhead Stadium and adjacent supporting facilities at the Truman Sports Complex in Jackson County, Missouri, and

(b) One-half of the Sports Facilities Share shall be used by the Bistate Commission, upon the recommendations of the Board, to provide project funding in an amount not the exceed $180,000,000 plus related debt service and financing costs, to be used in conjunction with other private and public funds to renovate, remodel, expand, upgrade, furnish and equip Kauffman Stadium and adjacent supporting facilities at the Truman Sports Complex in Jackson County, Missouri..

Commencement and Expiration of Tax. Collection of this proposed retail sales tax of one-fourth (1/4) of one cent shall commence on the first day of the second calendar quarter following voter approval as required herein. This tax shall terminate at the end of the calendar quarter as determined by the
Bistate Commission during which the total amount of revenue collected pursuant to this tax is adequate to provide for the earliest repayment of principal of and interest on bonds issued in an initial principal amount sufficient to provide project funding in an amount not to exceed $360,000,000, and related financing costs, for the sports facilities described above.

YES []

NO []

If you are in favor of the question, place and “x” in the box opposite “Yes.” If you are opposed to the question, place an “x” in the Box opposite “No”.

You are totally wrong in your assertion that the JCSA would have controlled the money.

It was to have been governed by a commision made up of the representing counties.

Anything else, you welching Kansas Freeloader?
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Post by JHawkBCD »

KC Scott wrote: You are totally wrong in your assertion that the JCSA would have controlled the money.

It was to have been governed by a commision made up of the representing counties.
In this case, you're right... but Bi-State II was a mess because they grossly underestimated the costs to do what's needed to Truman Sports Complex... not to mention that there's still far too much strength in the downtown baseball stadium lobby... and the fact that they whipped up the Bi-State II plan hastily and alienated a lot of voters, and not just the Kansas voters, either. With more public involvement & disclosure, along with a few tweaks, they may have passed that thing.

Realistically, they needed to divide Arrowhead and what they do for the Royals into two separate issues, and the arts into yet another issue.
Anything else, you welching Kansas Freeloader?
Yeah, shove a pheasant full of red-hot birdshot up your ass.
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Post by joe6pac »

Choads,

Johnny's kicks Tanner's ass.
Find'em hot, leav'em wet
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Truman
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Post by Truman »

My nickel’s worth:

BCD suggests that Wyco would prove to be a suitable home for the Chiefs. Oh really. How they gonna pay for it – with dog track revenues? :roll: Wyco has the smallest tax base in the Five County area, and Speedway development revenues are still a good 10 years out (s’up TIF’s). Sounds like Kansas might have to kick in some serious cayshe from the state coffer (read: JoCo) to make this non-starter viable.

As for BCD’s assertion that the Chiefs are asking for $300 million plus “…because they didn't maintain it properly”, he inadvertently nailed the crux of the argument. Improvement issues are a tough sell to area voters (both County and Bi-State) because these venues were built too well. Despite their age, Kauffman and Arrowhead remain among best fan-friendly venues in their respective leagues. For the Chiefs, the motivation is all about the Benjamins. Oh, sure, they plan to change a few light bulbs along the way, but the bulk of their hand-out is slated for “fan amenities” – wider concourses that will help the Chiefs sell more beer and gear; more potties for those who have to squat to pee; and a glassed-in gold level to keep the wallets of the hoi-paloi in temperate comfort. Not to mention the new offices needed to plot bad draft day decisions and scheme new ways to separate Joe Fan from his expendable income.

Finally, while “divide(ing) Arrowhead and what they do for the Royals into two separate issues, and the arts into yet another issue” makes all the sense in the world, like PSL’s and end user fees – we can’t. It’s in the original lease agreement.

---------------

I can’t say that I’m surprised by Scotty’s take. Anyone who would drag a Jetski 50 miles to a Clay County lake to dodge property taxes and county licensing fees sure as hell ain’t gonna be in any big hurry to pony up a few pennies of his hard-earned for a blimp hanger.

Not that I am either. But the question remains: What kinda town do we want to be? I posed this question the other night to the area’s resident rightwing melt-job over on 980. Our professional teams distinguish Kansas City from the other towns in the region. But like it or not, this characterization comes with a price tag. Now, if we want to be Omaha… Well, then so be it.

“What’s wrong with Omaha?” the Talking Head retorted. “They have a better zoo and a nice baseball stadium…” Yes they do. Paid for at tax-payers’ expense. They also have the CWS and have tossed their hat in the ring to host the Big XII basketball championship – an event this region would have lost permanently had Kansas City not voted to build the Sprint Center.

I am old enough to remember when Kansas City had visionaries. Thirty-five years ago, the people of Jackson County – my county – had the temerity to build a state-of-the-art major sports complex that became the standard for almost every big league city in the country, and sounded the death knell for multi-purpose municipal cookie cutter stadiums. St. Louis nuked the last of these dinosaurs last month.

But what has happened to our can-do spirit? We’ve seen our largest convention depart for bigger and better facilities in Memphis. We’ve seen the NCAA bolt Overland Park for Indianapolis, taking with it our tradition of hosting Final Fours. And now the Royals teeter on the edge of retraction, while the Chiefs eye the second-largest media market in the country.

Again I ask: What kind of town do we want to be? If we’re gonna do it, then let’s do it right.

Did it occur to anybody that Wednesday’s announcement just raised the Chiefs price tag for Arrowhead improvements to $500 million?! What the hell are we talkin’ about here?! Retrofit a 30-year-old stadium and dome it with a slideable tornado magnet?

Ya gotta think that even Jackson County could build a shiny, brand new two-hundred-suite retractable roof lean-to for that kinda coin. Hell, Reliant in Houston was built for $450 million – and they had to buy ground.

You want pie in the sky? Nuke Kauffman, send the Royals downtown (or to Omaha for that matter), and build New Arrowhead out of the rubble next door. Not only do we host the Super Bowl and other events that by-pass this city due to inadequate facilities – we rejoin the rotation as a host-city for the Final Four.
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Post by JHawkBCD »

Truman wrote:BCD suggests that Wyco would prove to be a suitable home for the Chiefs. Oh really. How they gonna pay for it – with dog track revenues? :roll: Wyco has the smallest tax base in the Five County area, and Speedway development revenues are still a good 10 years out (s’up TIF’s). Sounds like Kansas might have to kick in some serious cayshe from the state coffer (read: JoCo) to make this non-starter viable.
Same argument that was used prior to WyCo getting NASCAR... didn't seem to stop them from getting the track... and now, if you're an investor, you'd be stupid to ignore the supporting growth around the speedway and how it will sustain itself for years to come. All those shopping dollars from Lawrence, Leavenworth, Lansing, western KCK, that would normally go through to Overland Park or The Plaza, are now being intercepted before they can even cross I-435. Take a ride out there and see the development if you haven't been there before. It's way more than just Cabela's and Nebraska Furniture Mart now. And it will grow the WyCo tax base in leaps and bounds. Keep in mind that WyCo doesn't need as big a tax base as KCMO when it doesn't have to maintain as much infrastructure as KCMO. And have you really taken a close look at KCMO infrastructure? You think the inner city KCMO vote is going to say yes to a stadium renovation when the city can't even stop the storm sewers from backing up into their living rooms?

WyCo is in the catbird seat, whether you care to admit it or not.
But the question remains: What kinda town do we want to be? I posed this question the other night to the area’s resident rightwing melt-job over on 980. Our professional teams distinguish Kansas City from the other towns in the region. But like it or not, this characterization comes with a price tag. Now, if we want to be Omaha… Well, then so be it.
Major League Sports only mean something to a community if you're a major league sports fan. However, there are plenty of people that I know, who are politically connected in the metro area, who couldn't give a shit what the Chiefs do on Sundays, or what a day at The K means to the Average Joe... but they control the pursestrings. That's why this thing needs to be turned into an overall economic plan... a plan that includes supporting businesses, retail and service, around the stadium facilities, and how they can benefit each other during the season and during the off-season. It could be something as simple as the restaurant that is built into the side of the Triple-A stadium in Oklahoma City's Bricktown... it's open all year long and looks out over the playing field... yeah, no game to watch, but the mystique is sure there, even at a minor league field. Bricktown works for Oklahoma City... it would work tenfold better if the concept was brought to Kansas City. You can't build a "Bricktown" at the Truman Sports Complex, however. For all of the "quality" of the original Truman Sports Complex's construction, it suffered from poor locational planning, and that's proven out over time. For Sunday football games, it's fine - the majority of fans aren't trying to figure out how they're going to get to a game right after work on a Sunday. In the case of baseball, however, it's tough to keep people flocking out there for 81 games per season... season tickets are a tough sell unless you're fielding a 95+ game winner. They need to create an experience that makes tickets sell like hotcakes, even when the Royals suck. That's the only way to guarantee that you'll keep Major League Baseball in Kansas City.
“What’s wrong with Omaha?” the Talking Head retorted. “They have a better zoo and a nice baseball stadium…” Yes they do. Paid for at tax-payers’ expense. They also have the CWS and have tossed their hat in the ring to host the Big XII basketball championship – an event this region would have lost permanently had Kansas City not voted to build the Sprint Center.
Which the majority of taxpayers were on board with from the start. The City of Omaha did an excellent job of presenting the package, as well as executing after the vote gave the City the OK to proceed. KCMO can't say the same about their historical performances where tax money allocations are concerned.

Oh, but I guess Brush Creek sure looks nice... : meds :
I am old enough to remember when Kansas City had visionaries. Thirty-five years ago, the people of Jackson County – my county – had the temerity to build a state-of-the-art major sports complex that became the standard for almost every big league city in the country, and sounded the death knell for multi-purpose municipal cookie cutter stadiums. St. Louis nuked the last of these dinosaurs last month.
THERE YOU GO! Kansas City HAD visionaries. Those people are now either dead or too old to give a shit, and the people currently running things in KCMO are there to promote their own personal agendas. That's why, when issues such as the stadiums come up, they half-ass the plans to deal with them, and the voters have had enough of the half-assed results. If only those positions of power were not appointed positions, or were subject to performance reviews... as those idiots would have been sent packing long ago. If you want it done right, it's time to clean house.
But what has happened to our can-do spirit? We’ve seen our largest convention depart for bigger and better facilities in Memphis. We’ve seen the NCAA bolt Overland Park for Indianapolis, taking with it our tradition of hosting Final Fours. And now the Royals teeter on the edge of retraction, while the Chiefs eye the second-largest media market in the country.
Our (the voters) can-do spirit has been dampened because of so many half-baked plans by politicians with agendas. We (the voters) are immediately skeptical of things like Bi-State II, which was whipped up quickly, and clouded with ambiguity insofar as the plan's creators could not answer the public's questions about it in a way that gave the voters the idea that they could trust what they were hearing.
Again I ask: What kind of town do we want to be? If we’re gonna do it, then let’s do it right.
Amen.
Did it occur to anybody that Wednesday’s announcement just raised the Chiefs price tag for Arrowhead improvements to $500 million?! What the hell are we talkin’ about here?! Retrofit a 30-year-old stadium and dome it with a slideable tornado magnet?
Nice... I hadn't thought about the tornado issue with that sliding roof... and that's another example of how the JCSCA isn't thinking, either.
You want pie in the sky? Nuke Kauffman, send the Royals downtown (or to Omaha for that matter), and build New Arrowhead out of the rubble next door. Not only do we host the Super Bowl and other events that by-pass this city due to inadequate facilities – we rejoin the rotation as a host-city for the Final Four.
Rack that paragraph... except, I don't think it's necessarily "pie-in-the-sky". Yes, it will be more expensive... but it will keep both teams here for many more years to come, and the economic benefits have been proven out by many cities that have dones this before us... as long as it's DONE RIGHT.
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Post by Frank Football »

JHawkBCD wrote:They need to create an experience that makes tickets sell like hotcakes, even when the Royals suck. That's the only way to guarantee that you'll keep Major League Baseball in Kansas City.
Slot machines on the back of every seat or let a lucky fan play one inning each game? :lol:
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Post by JHawkBCD »

You left out PPV porn on LCD displays at the urinals.
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