Should NCAA change bowl qualifying criteria

SoCalTrjn · Post by **SoCalTrjn** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 12:47 pm

With the NCAA allowing teams to play 12 games next year and with a look at some schedules of certain teams, should 6 wins make a team bowl eligible?
Take a look at Alabamas 2006 schedule
Sep 2 Hawaii Tuscaloosa
Sep 9 Vanderbilt Tuscaloosa
Sep 16 Louisiana-Monroe Tuscaloosa
Sep 23 at Arkansas Fayetteville, AR
Sep 30 at Florida Gainesville, FL
Oct. 7 Duke Tuscaloosa
Oct 14 Ole Miss Tuscaloosa
Oct 21 at Tennessee Knoxville, TN
Oct 28 Florida International Tuscaloosa
Nov 4 Mississippi State Tuscaloosa
Nov 11 at LSU Baton Rouge, LA
Nov 18 Auburn Tuscaloosa

The 4 OOC games are all "gimmes" and are all at home, the Tide will only travel for 4 of the 12 games giving them 8 home games and their "tough" SEC schedule includes Ole Miss, Miss St, Arkansas, and Vandy. They win the 4 OOC games and all they need to do is win 2 conf games and theyre bowl eligible and it looks like 5 of their conf games will be vs teams that will have losing records this year.

Its not just in the SEC here is a look at Ohio States 2006 schedule
Sat 09/02/2006 Northern Illinois Columbus, Ohio
Sat 09/09/2006 Texas Austin, Texas
Sat 09/16/2006 Cincinnati Columbus, Ohio
Sat 09/23/2006 Penn State Columbus, Ohio
Sat 09/30/2006 Iowa Iowa City, Iowa
Sat 10/07/2006 Bowling Green Columbus, Ohio
Sat 10/14/2006 Michigan State East Lansing, Mich.
Sat 10/21/2006 Indiana Columbus, Ohio
Sat 10/28/2006 Minnesota Columbus, Ohio
Sat 11/04/2006 Illinois Champaign, Ill.
Sat 11/11/2006 Northwestern Evanston, Ill.
Sat 11/18/2006 Michigan Columbus, Ohio

The Texas game jumps out at you but the other 3 OOC games are vs patsies and all at home, Ohio State would only have to win 3 conference games to become bowl eligible.

Virginia Tech still has an OOC game to schedule in 2006
Sept. 2 Kent State Blacksburg
Sept. 16 Southern Miss Blacksburg
Sept. 23 Cincinnati Blacksburg

Duke Blacksburg, Va.
Georgia Tech Blacksburg, Va.
at Miami Miami, Fla.
at North Carolina Chapel Hill, N.C.
Virginia Blacksburg, Va.
at Boston College Chestnut Hill, Mass.
Clemson Blacksburg, Va.
at Wake Forest Winston-Salem, N.C.

So far their OOC schedule is filled with patsies and all at home as well, they still have a chance to get one marquee team in there but a peek at future OOC schedules (2007 East Carolina, Ohio and William and Mary, 2008 Bowling Green, Furman and East Carolina 2009 Marshall and Cincinnati, 2010 Central Michigan, Western Michigan, 2011 Appalachin State, Marshall) will lead you to beleive it will be vs someone they feel they can easily beat. That will leave the Hokies with a need to win only 2 or 3 conf games to qualify for a bowl

All of those teams should do very well next season but the criteria to reach a bowl game needs to be changed so that teams who go 2-6 in conf play are not eligible for a bowl.
Perhaps an amednment to the rule that states that a team that plays the majority of their OOC games at home (vs teams that they are not signed to play a home and home series with) will need to win 6 conf games inorder to qualify for a bowl, Also teams that play 7 or more home games will need to win 2 more games than they play at home during the season to qualify for a bowl, so if you play 7 home games in a season, you need to be 9-3 to be bowl eligible, if you play 8, then 10-2. This hopefully will discourage these types of OOC schedules in the future.
The very bottom line is that teams should have at least a winning record in conf play to earn a bowl birth, rewarding schools with millions to play 4 home games vs questionable OOC foes just isnt right, but either is playing 8 out of 12 games a season at home. The NCAA should not reward cowardly scheduling

indyfrisco · Post by **indyfrisco** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 1:02 pm

For some reason, I remember talk about you having to have 6 wins in addition to having a winning record so 6-6 won't cut it. I don't know if that ever got approved, but I remember talk about it.

SoCalTrjn · Post by **SoCalTrjn** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 1:14 pm

with Alabamas schedule next year, 6-6 shouldnt qualify them for a bowl, either should 8-4 though.

PSUFAN · Post by **PSUFAN** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 1:28 pm

I certainly don't like the direction things are headed. I love the spectacle of PSU football and all, but I don't need to see another creampuff opponent every year just so that the AD can bank a few more millions. That shit gets old.

It's funny that when they talk about lengthening the season to account for post season play, they cry academics...but they take every opportunity to fatten the schedule with creampuffs, with nary a second thought.

Meanwhile, take for example WVU this season...their radio color guy pointed out that in just the first month of WVU hoops, the team will miss more school than the football team did all season. The hypocrisy is garish and stinking.

MuchoBulls · Post by **MuchoBulls** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 1:47 pm

PSUFAN wrote:I certainly don't like the direction things are headed. I love the spectacle of PSU football and all, but I don't need to see another creampuff opponent every year just so that the AD can bank a few more millions. That shit gets old.

It's funny that when they talk about lengthening the season to account for post season play, they cry academics...but they take every opportunity to fatten the schedule with creampuffs, with nary a second thought.

Meanwhile, take for example WVU this season...their radio color guy pointed out that in just the first month of WVU hoops, the team will miss more school than the football team did all season. The hypocrisy is garish and stinking.

I think we all know the academic crutch is a bunch of garbage. The only times a football team would miss significant class time is when they play these mid week games.

I think using the WVU example is a not valid point. You would anticipate a basketball program having its players miss more class time because of the frequency of playing weeknight games. I took a quick look at our schedule and saw we have a few weeks of playing multiple games without one of those days being a Saturday or Sunday.

I agree with you on where things are heading. The 12th games is another home game for all the major programs. I believe that a 1 AA program will now count each year towards bowl eligibility. That is a huge problem in my opinion because if a team has an open date, as the example of VT was pointed out by SoCalTrjn, they would just easily fill it with a 1 AA and not seek a better opponent.

SoCalTrjn · Post by **SoCalTrjn** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 1:55 pm

The Pac 10 actually added a 9th conference game to the schedule to take advantage of the 12th game. USC's 2006 OOC schedule is Notre Dame, Nebraska and Arkansas, the year after that is Ohio State, Nebraska and Notre Dame. Oregons future OOC schedules are Fresno State, Oklahoma and Utah State in o6 and Houston, Michigan and Fresno State in 07. Some Pac 10 schools will still look to fill their OOC slate with easier schools and home games but they will only be given 3 games to do so (here comes the "but Pac 10 is a crap conference" comments)

Ken · Post by **Ken** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 2:06 pm

If you wanna change the bowl qualifying criteria, you'll have to eliminate a bowl or ten first.

I for one couldn't really give a rat's tail end whether or not a 6-win team plays in a bowl. Who cares? The kids sure do. Why should we? I actually enjoy watching some of these third tier bowls. I really do. Further, it doesn't affect the slotting of teams into the Bowl that really does matter... the BCS bowl hosting the MNC.

Stop and think about it... does it really matter?

PSUFAN · Post by **PSUFAN** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 2:14 pm

Good point. If they want to fill the week before New Year's with bowl games hosted in MAC cities, I guess that can help push the NBA off the TV schedule, and every bit of that sure helps.

At Large · Post by **At Large** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 2:15 pm

According to an article I just read on it, in addition to allowing 12 game schedules, the NCAA is also allowing one 1-AA win a year to count towards bowl eligibility. The old rule was one win every four years. The article does not state if they're ever going to change the rule to 7-5.

http://www.kansan.com/stories/2005/may/ ... all_rules/

Cicero · Post by **Cicero** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 2:53 pm

Socal, I understand where you are coming from but if you play in a very good conference then I can see why some teams schedule some cream puffs OOC. Por ejemplo:

Alabama has to play UF, Tenn, Auburn and LSU in conf. That is a pretty damn tough schedule. Not too mention if they play well and make it to the SEC Champ game. That is potentially playing 5 Top 20 teams. I can understand someone from the Big East having to step it up OOC b/c their conf blows but as long as an SEC team is playing 4 Big Dogs a year, I dont see it as a problem.

Ohio St is in the same boat. When they have to play Penn ST, Mich, Texas and Iowa I give them the benefit of the doubt. Once again that is 4 Top 20 teams w/ the possibility of two of those teams being in the Top 10.

buckeye_in_sc · Post by **buckeye_in_sc** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 3:27 pm

Obviously SO Cal doesn't watch any football out of SC...

as far as tOSU's schedule...

Northern Illinois has been a pretty tough MAC out as of late if you don't believe that ask Maryland and Bama how good they are...Northern Illinois beat both of them in the same year...

Texas at Texas...yeah this was scheduled many years ago...but it is turning out to be another game potentially matching top 5 opponents.

Cincy - ok a gimmie but still can be dangerous...

BG - ask Wisconsin how good they are...Sconsin had to score 50+ to beat them as BG dropped 40 something on Wisky...and this is the same BG team that has played OU tough in recent years and been a pretty tough MAC out as well...

as far as the Big 10 schedule goes...Iowa will be a tough out in Iowa City, PSU hopefully will continue the trend, Michigan will be a toughie again...so I give them the benefit of the doubt...

so how about SC's schedule...you want to punk everyone else's schedule throw SC's up there...i mean you get to feast on Arizona, Oregon State, Washington, and WSU...hmmm...pretty tough to me...fuck off...

disclaimer this is meant only to So Cal Trojan not the other upstanding Trojan fans who can call a spade a spade...

we'll see in 08 and 09 when tOSU and SC play...at least SC will be traveling east of the Mississippi for a game...and save the tOSU traveling smack...tOSU has/will have traveled to Washington, Washington State, Texas, and Pasedena to play UCLA...

Jimmy Medalions · Post by **Jimmy Medalions** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 4:22 pm

SoCalTrjn wrote:USC's 2006 OOC schedule is Notre Dame, Nebraska and Arkansas

It is widely-rumored right now that NU is trying to back out of this.

Ken · Post by **Ken** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 4:26 pm

Jimmy Medalions wrote:It is widely-rumored right now that NU is getting back on the bus and placing USC squarely in their rear view, and driving as fast as they can.

I think this is one of those 'ftfy' thingys.

SoCalTrjn · Post by **SoCalTrjn** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 4:41 pm

Washington, Wazzoo and Oregon State would all be int he same boat as Tennessee, all 3 have been to BCS bowls recently and have just had arough couple of years.
I put OSU's schedule up there because it was easy to find, it wasnt an attack on Ohio State.
USC travels to the other side of the Mississippi every year to play at least 1 big name team. Notre dame in 05, Virginia Tech in 04, Auburn and Notre Dame in 03, its not like USC has to point at future OOC schedules to show that they plan on being tough, you wont find any Kent States at home on USC's recent schedules.

PSUFAN · Post by **PSUFAN** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 4:45 pm

you wont find any Kent States at home on USC's recent schedules.

Not out of conference, anyway.

Spinach Genie · Post by **Spinach Genie** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 4:54 pm

...and the PAC 1 is still top loaded with patsies.

The strength of schedule bitching from PACies will never not be hilarious.

buckeye_in_sc · Post by **buckeye_in_sc** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 5:12 pm

So Cal...i am not pointing to OSU's future schedules to say they will be tough or what not...but you did throw some hand grenades about tOSU's schedule...

you want to talk patsies...Hawaii, Arkansas...

and by the way The Ohio State University made it known MANY FUCKING years ago that they were going to schedule at least one Ohio school per year in order to keep that money in the state...I don't fault them for that and hey BG, Cincy, and Miami of Oh gave tOSU fits over the years...sorry the one big game a year you play OOC is a rivalry but to point to that as your toughness is laughable...

The 4 OOC games are all "gimmes" and are all at home, the Tide will only travel for 4 of the 12 games giving them 8 home games and their "tough" SEC schedule includes Ole Miss, Miss St, Arkansas, and Vandy. They win the 4 OOC games and all they need to do is win 2 conf games and theyre bowl eligible and it looks like 5 of their conf games will be vs teams that will have losing records this year.

Its not just in the SEC here is a look at Ohio States 2006 schedule
Sat 09/02/2006 Northern Illinois Columbus, Ohio
Sat 09/09/2006 Texas Austin, Texas
Sat 09/16/2006 Cincinnati Columbus, Ohio
Sat 09/23/2006 Penn State Columbus, Ohio
Sat 09/30/2006 Iowa Iowa City, Iowa
Sat 10/07/2006 Bowling Green Columbus, Ohio
Sat 10/14/2006 Michigan State East Lansing, Mich.
Sat 10/21/2006 Indiana Columbus, Ohio
Sat 10/28/2006 Minnesota Columbus, Ohio
Sat 11/04/2006 Illinois Champaign, Ill.
Sat 11/11/2006 Northwestern Evanston, Ill.
Sat 11/18/2006 Michigan Columbus, Ohio

The Texas game jumps out at you but the other 3 OOC games are vs patsies and all at home, Ohio State would only have to win 3 conference games to become bowl eligible.

^^^^sounds like an attack to me...

hey I try to stay away from schedule smack because no one knows from one year to the next in most regards how tough someone is gonna be...case in point in 2007 tOSU travels to Washington and plays Syracuse non-con...as of today those look like easy games...in 2 years who FUCKING knows...hell by the time tOSU and USC tangle who knows how good they both will be...

all I know is that tOSU is scheduling a bevy of non-con heavies in the near future one game a year...according to Tressel if you want to be the best you have to play the best which is why we have

@ Texas 2006
@ Washington (make up date for the 03 game in columbus) and Syracuse 07
@ USC 2008
USC 2009
@ Miami of FL 2010
Miami of FL 2011
supposedly Kal in 12/13 and Va Tech in 14/15

so what does all that fucking mean as of now nothing but I wish more coaches and schools would schedule at least one traditional power a year...I alluded to it in many threads previous you could have a wonderful non-con season with huge intersectional rivalries...

just sayin'

SoCalTrjn · Post by **SoCalTrjn** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 5:35 pm

I also said that I used Ohio State cause their future schedule was easy to find. the point of the post was that the NCAA should require teams to have winning records inconference in order to be bowl eligible, especially if theyre going to load up their schedule with home games vs lesser schools.
Arkansas traditionally is a much tougher game than Bowling Green or or Cincinnati. Hawaii was on USCs schedule because the NCAA awarded teams that traveled to play Hawaii OOC with a 12th game.
Iowas site didnt have their 06 schedule and Ohio state was the second one I looked at int he Big 11

At Large · Post by **At Large** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 5:35 pm

Jimmy Medalions wrote:
SoCalTrjn wrote:USC's 2006 OOC schedule is Notre Dame, Nebraska and Arkansas
It is widely-rumored right now that NU is trying to back out of this.

Is that the same year the Marlon Lucky is supposed to transfer? Seriously, what ARE you guys smoking out west. NU is not dropping this game. It's going to be on national TV for crying out loud.

Cicero · Post by **Cicero** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 5:37 pm

Lucky better transfer. His talent is going to get wasted over in Lincoln cause NU is gonna throw 50 times a game.

At Large · Post by **At Large** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 5:43 pm

Is that why he's playing in practically every game? Granted, he's caught just two passes and rushed about 32 times for over 100 yards, but he had some pretty spectacular kickoff returns in the last few games (one that went all the way, but was called back). What a waste that he's playing...

Cicero · Post by **Cicero** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 5:56 pm

Just saying he would get more exposure and get better coaching if he went USC.

Terry in Crapchester · Tue Nov 22, 2005 6:16 pm

IIRC, in a 12-game season, a team has to have a minimum of seven wins in order to be assured of being bowl-eligible. A team can qualify for a bowl with six wins, but only if there aren't enough teams from its conference with seven or more wins to fill all the bowl slots allotted to the conference. Further, all teams with seven or more wins from any given conference must be invited to bowl games before any bowl game can consider a six-win team, which is an exception to the general "one loss" rule.

If it were up to me, assuming you're going to keep the basic status quo, I'd tweak the system in the following manner:

Minimum seven wins for bowl eligibility in a 12-game season.
No more opponents from Division 1-AA.
All teams must play a minimum of one OOC game on the road.

Degenerate · Post by **Degenerate** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 6:25 pm

Terry in Crapchester wrote:IIRC, in a 12-game season, a team has to have a minimum of seven wins in order to be assured of being bowl-eligible. A team can qualify for a bowl with six wins, but only if there aren't enough teams from its conference with seven or more wins to fill all the bowl slots allotted to the conference.

Kansas won six games in 2003 and got a Tangerine Bowl invite. I don't think the Big XII was lacking in teams to fill up bowl slots that year, but I could be wrong.

Edit: In 2003, the Big XII had two BCS teams, so maybe they jumped up to fill a preordained conference slot?

Terry in Crapchester · Tue Nov 22, 2005 7:36 pm

Degenerate wrote:
Terry in Crapchester wrote:IIRC, in a 12-game season, a team has to have a minimum of seven wins in order to be assured of being bowl-eligible. A team can qualify for a bowl with six wins, but only if there aren't enough teams from its conference with seven or more wins to fill all the bowl slots allotted to the conference.
Kansas won six games in 2003 and got a Tangerine Bowl invite. I don't think the Big XII was lacking in teams to fill up bowl slots that year, but I could be wrong.

Edit: In 2003, the Big XII had two BCS teams, so maybe they jumped up to fill a preordained conference slot?

I think the latter is what happened.

Danimal · Post by **Danimal** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 5:22 pm

Jimmy Medalions wrote:
SoCalTrjn wrote:USC's 2006 OOC schedule is Notre Dame, Nebraska and Arkansas
It is widely-rumored right now that NU is trying to back out of this.

Rumors mean jack and shit, jack skipped town.

Our AD Pedey is a weasel but he is smart enough to know a public-relations disaster when he see's it. No way could we get out, or even try to get out, of the USC game without the program getting an enormous blackeye. Folks, including me, would be screaming for his resignation.

As far as Lucky goes, that we have him and more very talented youngsters following is about the only reason I have any optimism about the current staff.

Cicero, you are in no position to throw stones about coaching. We are no-worse coached than FSU, we just aren't at that talent-level yet. Considering neither of our coordinators is nearly as bad as jeffy we might be better-coached. But that isn't saying much.

Shoalzie · Post by **Shoalzie** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 5:50 pm

I think the NCAA needs to standardize the schedule for every team. It depends on how big the conference is for the given school but every team should play 12 games with no more than 7 of them at home. Allow 3-4 out of conference games a year with no fewer than one of them on the road. This will leave 8 or 9 conference games. Also, no more D-II opponents.

At Large · Post by **At Large** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 8:48 pm

I think you meant to say no more IAA opponents. I personally don't have a problem with teams playing them, but they should limit how many games you schedule against them, like say 1 every 2 years. It's sometimes necessary due to scheduling conflicts, not that I'm actively encouraging NU to start this practice full time. There are plently of sucky Sun Belt teams to choose from for this endeaver.

SoCalTrjn · Post by **SoCalTrjn** » Thu Nov 24, 2005 10:57 am

There is no reason to schedule 1AA schols other than a team just wanting to buy a win.
Ill take Shoalzies idea of standardized schedules but with a few tweaks. I would tweak it so that no team could have more than half their games at home, not allow D1 teams to schedule anything but other D1 teams and at least half the OOC games of teams in BCS conferences must be vs teams from other BCS conferences (or Notre Dame) and at least 1 of those must be a road game.

Adelpiero · Post by **Adelpiero** » Thu Nov 24, 2005 3:15 pm

So Northern Illinois is a patsy?

Bowling green,toledo, etc those are patsies?

Degenerate · Post by **Degenerate** » Thu Nov 24, 2005 3:58 pm

SoCalTrjn wrote: at least half the OOC games of teams in BCS conferences must be vs teams from other BCS conferences (or Notre Dame)

Man, if this were true, imagine how many phone calls Duke's AD would get.

SoCalTrjn · Post by **SoCalTrjn** » Thu Nov 24, 2005 11:28 pm

Believe the Heupel wrote:
SoCalTrjn wrote: I would tweak it so that no team could have more than half their games at home,
Better check your math, guy. With anything other than an even number of games, that is an impossibility.

Everyone isnt going to 12 games a year?

SoCalTrjn · Post by **SoCalTrjn** » Thu Nov 24, 2005 11:29 pm

Degenerate wrote:
SoCalTrjn wrote: at least half the OOC games of teams in BCS conferences must be vs teams from other BCS conferences (or Notre Dame)
Man, if this were true, imagine how many phone calls Duke's AD would get.

You mean from schools like Alabama?

Terry in Crapchester · Fri Nov 25, 2005 5:38 am

Believe the Heupel wrote:
SoCalTrjn wrote:
Believe the Heupel wrote: Better check your math, guy. With anything other than an even number of games, that is an impossibility.
Everyone isnt going to 12 games a year?
They are for next year, not sure about after. However, your solution then would be that everyone plays six home and away. Otherwise the math doesn't work.

I think you could throw in a neutral field game. I would say no more than six home games, and up to two neutral field games per season, with the caveat that any team scheduling two neutral field games would lose one home game and one away game, rather than two away games.