CBS: Top 10 College QB's All-Time

Cicero · Post by **Cicero** » Fri Nov 25, 2005 7:44 pm

CBS ran a special today naming the Top 10 All-Time:

1 Sammy Baugh
2 Roger Staubach
3 Johnny Lujack
4 Doug Flutie
5 Joe Namath
6 Peyton Manning
7 Charlie Ward
8 Steve Young
9 Tommy Frazier
10 Matt Leinart

Now, I am not gonna debate the players who made the list b/c they are all great, no doubt. I just have a problem w/ the order in which they were named. I think maybe a little much recognition went to the older players who might have revolutionized the position. I understand that the QB's prior to 1980 didnt throw the ball as much as they have the past 25 years, but I still believe that if you are going to rank them, then stats does have to come into play at some point. If I had to use the same 10 players I feel the order should have went like this:

1 Staubach
2 Frazier
3 Leinart
4 Flutie
5 Lujack
6 Ward
7 Baugh
8 Manning
9 Young
10 Namath

T REX · Post by **T REX** » Fri Nov 25, 2005 9:50 pm

Manning? 0-4 vs UF? 1 SEC title, no national championships????

That is a complete joke.

No Danny Wuerffel??????

Dude tossed 114 TDs, 4 SEC Titles, 1 MNC, 2nd rated passer in CFB history, 11,000 yards. Sorry.

Vito Corleone · Post by **Vito Corleone** » Fri Nov 25, 2005 10:08 pm

How the hell can they not include James Street in that list he was 20-0 for Texas with 2 MNCs. He has a better resume than Charlie Ward has for FSU.

Didn't Joe Montana have a pretty good career for Notre Dame?

What about Vinney Testaverde or Bernie Kosar?

I know Leinart is not done yet but if he finishes with another MNC I would probably name him #1 considering how much his offense depends on him for success.

Vince Young still has a lot of football to play in his college football career but right now he is on pace to be on that list he has had two losses in his career and both were to a team that played for the MNC.

Vito Corleone · Post by **Vito Corleone** » Fri Nov 25, 2005 10:10 pm

BTW I'm on board with Trix regarding Wuerffel he deserves to be on this list. It's not a like they are judging them on their NFL play.

campinfool · Post by **campinfool** » Fri Nov 25, 2005 11:27 pm

With so many QBs having unbelievable collegiate careers it is almost impossible to narrow the list down to 10. Especially without leaving undeserving candidates off. These lists seem to be a way to really rile up the natives.

The Seer · Post by **The Seer** » Sat Nov 26, 2005 12:06 am

Believe the Heupel wrote:If we're going to throw James Street, Jimmie Harris needs to enter into the discussion.

31-0 as a starter, three big 7 championships, etc etc.

This list seems like they took a bunch of guys who were good in college and had great pro careers, then threw in a few guys who didn't have pro careers so it wouldn't look like they were TOTALLY looking at pro stats.

Hell, Tommie Frazier was a great QB, but nobody who misses that many games to injury is a top 10 of all time-and I recognize that isn't his fault, but by the same standard Jamelle Holieway should be on the list.

Tommie Frazier threw pus.

The Seer · Post by **The Seer** » Sat Nov 26, 2005 1:11 am

Pus is that white stuff that oozes out of infection sites; also slang for junk. Tommie Frazier had good wheels, and could sometimes hit a wide open receiver - but one of the top 10 of all time? No way, no how.

The Seer · Post by **The Seer** » Sat Nov 26, 2005 1:13 am

A Tommie Frazier pass.

Cicero · Post by **Cicero** » Sat Nov 26, 2005 2:09 am

Off the top pf my head some of the snubs are :

Wuerffel
Marino
Elway
McMahon
Dorsey
Testaverde
Detmer
Plunkett

I was born in 1980 so I can only go by guys i could have possibly seen, but I am sure there are some guys that played in the 70s that could ball too.

Ken · Post by **Ken** » Sat Nov 26, 2005 3:45 am

Cicero wrote:I was born in 1980 so I can only go by guys i could have possibly seen, but I am sure there are some guys that played in the 70s that could ball too.

Not really. College football's only been around since 1980 or so.

sin,
FSUfan

T REX · Post by **T REX** » Sat Nov 26, 2005 3:48 am

Ken Dorsey was 37-2 as a starter.

Frazier? Injured a lot, but a stud. Manning never won big game.......sounds like his pro career. Detmer threw for a ton of yards and something like 117 TDs.

I guess we need to ask what are the criteria and go from there.

T REX · Post by **T REX** » Sat Nov 26, 2005 3:53 am

Vito Corleone wrote:BTW I'm on board with Trix regarding Wuerffel he deserves to be on this list. It's not a like they are judging them on their NFL play.

Vittles, thanks. Even FSU fan will agree. Danny W was way better than that point guard. Another joke.

I will respectfully disagree with your take on VY. Those throws are ugly and Texas hasn't played anyone since OSU. I have a bad feeling about your chances come bowl time. The Big 12 curse is still strong. Mack is still the coach. Applewhite is gone.

If he comes back, we'll eval next year before making a final call on VY.

Spinach Genie · Post by **Spinach Genie** » Sat Nov 26, 2005 3:54 am

Eli Manning was the better of the Manning brothers in college. He actually single-handedly made Ole Miss a top SEC team. Peyton was in the most talent rich program in the SEC and really wasn't nearly as big a factor...in college.

Ken · Post by **Ken** » Sat Nov 26, 2005 4:53 am

Frazier has every right to be on that list.
As far as I can tell, he fits the criteria for consideration...

-played CF
-was a QB

What type of an offense the QB happened to steer is inconsequential.

Cornhusker · Post by **Cornhusker** » Sat Nov 26, 2005 5:08 am

Believe the Heupel wrote:Not really. The offense that Nebraska used to run is every bit as intricate as the spread or WCO and required just as much timing and execution. The QB was responsible for a ton of reads and the position requires a ton of athleticism and precision.

Just opened this thread for the first time.
Froz...no truer words have been typed in this forum than your comment.

So many think that throwing the ball is what a QB needs to do to be successful. Glamour ball.
The names mentioned would have struggled to finished their career had they taken the shots Frazier was exposed to in the option.
Winning is his job, no matter what type of offense his team runs.
This is about college QB's, and the success should be based on accomplishments he had while in college, not his pro carreer.
2 National Championships, and a 3rd an eyelash away, would put Frazier in the Top 10.
He was out 8 games, just think if he didn't have the blood clots.

Qbert · Post by **Qbert** » Sat Nov 26, 2005 5:22 am

^^^^^^^^^^^^^

with that being said....

Chuck Ealy (1968-70) University of Toledo

35-0

3 Tangerine Bowl wins. (hey, that's what UT was invited to....and they WON!)

didn't lose a College Game (or HS game) period.

not saying he should be at the TOP of the List, or anything....but if we're going to measure College Football's Best ever...regardless of "systems" (Frazier)....WHO has 'BODE?

Chuck Ealy does.

35-0
Div 1.
3 Tangerine Bowl WINS.

...awaiting the YEAH BUT comments....

think about it....HIS Team WON EVERY GAME scheduled.

its NOT his (or Toledo's Fault) that THE POWERHOUSES didn't schedule them after the 1st Tangerine Bowl WIN.

35-0

ought to make the List.

'BODE Chuck Ealy.

Van · Post by **Van** » Sat Nov 26, 2005 6:05 am

Including Peyton Manning on that list is utter nonsense.

He never won a damn thing in college. No Heismans, and he lost every big game he played.

If Leinart wins just two more games he must be in the Top 3 all time, no questions asked. It could easily argued he has to be #1.

One loss in his entire career (an early season triple O.T. road game in one of his first starts, a game that was lost by his kicker), a Heisman (with the longshot possibility of adding another), the longest winning streak in the modern era and a three peat of national titles including two title game wins against undefeated teams?

Peyton Manning????

For that matter....Doug Flutie? I'm sorry but one memorable Hail Mary to Phelan doesn't put Flutie within shouting distance of Leinart.

Don't really see how Steve Young or Charlie Ward can possibly be ranked higher than Leinart either. Whether it's stats or leadership or wins or championships Leinart has 'em both covered.

The Seer · Post by **The Seer** » Sat Nov 26, 2005 6:33 am

OUMO · Post by **OUMO** » Sat Nov 26, 2005 7:31 am

Steve Davis OU 73-75, 32-1-1 with 2 NC's.

Just adding to the argument. :twisted:

SoCalTrjn · Post by **SoCalTrjn** » Sat Nov 26, 2005 11:30 am

Believe the Heupel wrote:
KC Paul 3.0 wrote:
T REX wrote:Manning? 0-4 vs UF? 1 SEC title, no national championships????

That is a complete joke.

No Danny Wuerffel??????

Dude tossed 114 TDs, 4 SEC Titles, 1 MNC, 2nd rated passer in CFB history, 11,000 yards. Sorry.
For once I agree with TREXIE. I also agree that Tommy Frazier has no place on that list- or ANY Husker QB for that matter. All they've been from about 1960 to 2002 were glorified running backs that threw an occasional pass. Student Body Left and Student Body Right do NOT a stud QB make.
Er, yeah, except Nebraska didn't run SBR very often. That's SC's signature play. Nebraska's signature play was the power-I option.

USC also invented the I formation (not tomention running backs lining up 7 yards behind the line)

Leinart is a mind boggling 36-1 as a starter, that Manning, who never won anything, is even mentioned in the same breath would be sickening if it wasnt CBS who was mentioning it. The ONLY thing CBS has to do with college football is their contract for the TV rights to SEC games

T REX · Post by **T REX** » Sat Nov 26, 2005 1:56 pm

Cornhusker wrote:
So many think that throwing the ball is what a QB needs to do to be successful. Glamour ball.

Passing is glamour ball? Only from a nebraska fan's mouth who's team is down on their luck would that appear on my screen. The power option is dead my friend. (cue taps)

The names mentioned would have struggled to finished their career had they taken the shots Frazier was exposed to in the option.
Winning is his job, no matter what type of offense his team runs.

Coulda, shoulda, woulda. And Frazier would have been benched at most colleges or converted to a RB because he wasn't the best passer. But man, could he run. Agree on winning is the only things.

This is about college QB's, and the success should be based on accomplishments he had while in college, not his pro carreer.
2 National Championships, and a 3rd an eyelash away, would put Frazier in the Top 10.
He was out 8 games, just think if he didn't have the blood clots.

Agree on all points. He was a gazelle.

Qbert · Post by **Qbert** » Sat Nov 26, 2005 3:36 pm

Believe the Heupel wrote:
Qbert wrote:^^^^^^^^^^^^^

with that being said....

Chuck Ealy (1968-70) University of Toledo

35-0

think about it....HIS Team WON EVERY GAME scheduled.

35-0

ought to make the List.

'BODE Chuck Ealy.
He has 'Bode on Jimmie Harris?

Jimmie Harris was 31-0 as a starter, won two national titles, and won an Orange Bowl.

That's pretty fuckin' good.

Edit: If I recall correctly, Jimmie Harris also played for a Midwest City Bombers football team that didn't lose a game while he was in high school. With the one year break because freshmen couldn't play back then, Jimmie Harris started for seven years without losing a game.

BTH

my point is :arrow: Chuck Ealy should at least be ON the List.

that's all.

Cornhusker · Post by **Cornhusker** » Sat Nov 26, 2005 7:33 pm

T REX wrote:
Cornhusker wrote:
So many think that throwing the ball is what a QB needs to do to be successful. Glamour ball.
Passing is glamour ball? Only from a nebraska fan's mouth who's team is down on their luck would that appear on my screen. The power option is dead my friend. (cue taps)

Down on our luck? Damn NU fan is beaming today after clubbing CU 30-3 in Boulder yesterday in what appears to have cost them the Big 12 north championship. (Half time score ISU-14 KU-3)
Beating Colorado worse than Miami and Texas, who both had CU at home, has got Corn fan thinking the corner may well be getting turned.

I case it hasn't reached Florida yet, Nebraska runs the West Coast offense, and threw for 392 yards in 48 attempts.

By the way, Callahan ran 1 option play for a first down much to the delight of the NU fans at the game.

Also, that was Texas' #2 ranked defense struggling to stop A&M who was running option again and again yesterday for 280 yards.

WolverineSteve · Post by **WolverineSteve** » Sat Nov 26, 2005 9:47 pm

Rick Leach
Chuck Long
Andre Ware
Steve McNair

SunCoastSooner · Post by **SunCoastSooner** » Sun Nov 27, 2005 12:59 am

Believe the Heupel wrote:
Qbert wrote:^^^^^^^^^^^^^

with that being said....

Chuck Ealy (1968-70) University of Toledo

35-0

3 Tangerine Bowl wins. (hey, that's what UT was invited to....and they WON!)

didn't lose a College Game (or HS game) period.

not saying he should be at the TOP of the List, or anything....but if we're going to measure College Football's Best ever...regardless of "systems" (Frazier)....WHO has 'BODE?

Chuck Ealy does.

35-0
Div 1.
3 Tangerine Bowl WINS.

...awaiting the YEAH BUT comments....

think about it....HIS Team WON EVERY GAME scheduled.

its NOT his (or Toledo's Fault) that THE POWERHOUSES didn't schedule them after the 1st Tangerine Bowl WIN.

35-0

ought to make the List.

'BODE Chuck Ealy.
He has 'Bode on Jimmie Harris?

Jimmie Harris was 31-0 as a starter, won two national titles, and won an Orange Bowl.

That's pretty fuckin' good.

Edit: If I recall correctly, Jimmie Harris also played for a Midwest City Bombers football team that didn't lose a game while he was in high school. With the one year break because freshmen couldn't play back then, Jimmie Harris started for seven years without losing a game.

You're correct... on the OU Legends DVD they joke about Jimmy never losing a game.. everrrrrrrr.

Killian · Post by **Killian** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 4:39 pm

Vito Corleone wrote: Didn't Joe Montana have a pretty good career for Notre Dame?

Not really. He wasn't a full time starter until the second or third game of his junior year. He had a very, very average college career. If any ND QB should be mentioned, it should be Lujak or Tony Rice.

Cicero · Post by **Cicero** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 4:55 pm

See I dont mind Lujack on the list b/c he won 3 National Champ and a Heisman. I know they didnt throw a lot in his day, but ND back in the day ran a lot w/ the QB.

I personally didnt agree w/ Namath and Peyton on this list.

King Crimson · Post by **King Crimson** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 4:58 pm

SunCoastSooner wrote:
Believe the Heupel wrote:
Qbert wrote:^^^^^^^^^^^^^

with that being said....

Chuck Ealy (1968-70) University of Toledo

35-0

3 Tangerine Bowl wins. (hey, that's what UT was invited to....and they WON!)

didn't lose a College Game (or HS game) period.

not saying he should be at the TOP of the List, or anything....but if we're going to measure College Football's Best ever...regardless of "systems" (Frazier)....WHO has 'BODE?

Chuck Ealy does.

35-0
Div 1.
3 Tangerine Bowl WINS.

...awaiting the YEAH BUT comments....

think about it....HIS Team WON EVERY GAME scheduled.

its NOT his (or Toledo's Fault) that THE POWERHOUSES didn't schedule them after the 1st Tangerine Bowl WIN.

35-0

ought to make the List.

'BODE Chuck Ealy.
He has 'Bode on Jimmie Harris?

Jimmie Harris was 31-0 as a starter, won two national titles, and won an Orange Bowl.

That's pretty fuckin' good.

Edit: If I recall correctly, Jimmie Harris also played for a Midwest City Bombers football team that didn't lose a game while he was in high school. With the one year break because freshmen couldn't play back then, Jimmie Harris started for seven years without losing a game.
You're correct... on the OU Legends DVD they joke about Jimmy never losing a game.. everrrrrrrr.

that's actually Jay O'Neal on the Legends DVD. Though, Harris' record as a starter is mindboggling, no doubt about it.

Terry in Crapchester · Mon Nov 28, 2005 4:58 pm

Killian wrote:
Vito Corleone wrote: Didn't Joe Montana have a pretty good career for Notre Dame?
Not really. He wasn't a full time starter until the second or third game of his junior year. He had a very, very average college career.

True, but he was the starting QB on a national championship team. That alone puts him in elite company.

I always thought Devine screwed the pooch on failing to make Montana the full-fledged #1 over Rusty Lisch.

If any ND QB should be mentioned, it should be Lujak or Tony Rice.

Rice was a very good option QB, and like Montana, he also gets extra credit from me for being the starting QB on a national champion. But I used to hold my breath, literally, every time he threw a pass. He also was the beneficiary of a lot of talent around him, although ND wasn't the only talented team at the time.

Killian · Post by **Killian** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 5:15 pm

Terry in Crapchester wrote: I always thought Devine screwed the pooch on failing to make Montana the full-fledged #1 over Rusty Lisch.

Or Gary Fortysak (sp?).

I agree about Rice. But he seemed to have his best passing days when teams tried to load the box and stop him from running. Miami and WVU come to mind.

T REX · Post by **T REX** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 6:00 pm

Cornhusker wrote:
Down on our luck? Damn NU fan is beaming today after clubbing CU 30-3 in Boulder yesterday in what appears to have cost them the Big 12 north championship. (Half time score ISU-14 KU-3)
Beating Colorado worse than Miami and Texas, who both had CU at home, has got Corn fan thinking the corner may well be getting turned.

I case it hasn't reached Florida yet, Nebraska runs the West Coast offense, and threw for 392 yards in 48 attempts.

By the way, Callahan ran 1 option play for a first down much to the delight of the NU fans at the game.

Also, that was Texas' #2 ranked defense struggling to stop A&M who was running option again and again yesterday for 280 yards.

Welcome to the 21st century. The forward pass has made it to Lincoln. Congrats.

Glad to see you guys winning some games.

How about UF-NU in Shreveport?

Cornhusker · Post by **Cornhusker** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 7:47 pm

T REX wrote:How about UF-NU in Shreveport?

With Iowa St. pissin' their pants against Kansas and Colorado a victim of NU and about to have back to back ass rapings on national TV after this coming Saturday, NU will probably end up in the Alamo or Holiday Bowl.

MiketheangrydrunkenCUfan · Mon Nov 28, 2005 8:41 pm

How could they leave Ron Powlus off that list? Consider his credentials. 36-0 as a starter. 3 Heisman trophies. 3 MNCs. CBS is a bunch of idiots.

Sincerely,

But seriously, Frazier should be #1 on that list. The dude is not only the best QB, but straight up the best college football player I've seen in my 20some years of watching CFB.

Van · Post by **Van** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 9:26 pm

The "best over QB" at least has to be able to throw exceedingly well. We're talking about the QB position here, and the "best ever".

Frazier could barely throw to save his life. No way he's #1. Top 10, okay, maybe, on aggregate, but there's no way a poor thrower like that can ever be called the best QB ever.

Stick Frazier on Baylor and he's a nightmare. He's a RB, actually.

The "best ever QB" would be a guy who could do it regardless of the team or the circumstance. He'd stand his ground, lead his team and deliver the ball downfield with guts, poise and accuracy.

Frazier would merely tuck and run because his offensive line slaughtered whoever was in front of them. When he passed it was to wide open receivers who were wide open for the same reason: The offensive line's ability to put the running game fear of god into those physically overmatched defenses.

Sorry but the best ever QB has to at least be able to throw and he has to at least be good enough at his position to get drafted into the NFL at that position. Otherwise, it's blatantly obvious he was just the product and extreme beneficiary of his college system/surrounding talent.

There's really not a whole lot of difference betweeen Tommy Frazier and Eric Crouch. Same basic player, same basic skill sets, same basic skill deficiencies, same basic results...both in college and the pros.

Both, the mere products of their system and the overwhelming talent surrounding them. Both, good players...but nowhere near the best ever at that position.

Sky · Post by **Sky** » Tue Nov 29, 2005 6:22 pm

Cornhusker wrote:
With Iowa St. pissin' their pants against Kansas and Colorado a victim of NU and about to have back to back ass rapings on national TV after this coming Saturday, NU will probably end up in the Alamo or Holiday Bowl.

Funny how one win over a mediocre CU team brings Husker nation back to life. How easily we forget Oct 22nd - Nov 5th and the fact that Callahan is a sack of shit.

Cornhusker · Post by **Cornhusker** » Tue Nov 29, 2005 7:01 pm

Sky wrote:
Cornhusker wrote:
With Iowa St. pissin' their pants against Kansas and Colorado a victim of NU and about to have back to back ass rapings on national TV after this coming Saturday, NU will probably end up in the Alamo or Holiday Bowl.
Funny how one win over a mediocre CU team brings Husker nation back to life. How easily we forget Oct 22nd - Nov 5th and the fact that Callahan is a sack of shit.

What about that post is not factual?

Besides all the NU fans on this board have sacked up through the last 4 years and don't appear or disappear based on wins and losses.

Feel free to play early and often.

Sky · Post by **Sky** » Tue Nov 29, 2005 7:05 pm

Not just that one post, just you running your mouth after one win.

And you know what, it might be different if you ever considered CU a rival. But you have ignored them for so long that you don't even get props for winning a rivalry, just another piss poor Big 12 N opponent.

Cornhusker · Post by **Cornhusker** » Tue Nov 29, 2005 7:11 pm

Sky wrote:Not just that one post, just you running your mouth after one win.

Where?

And you know what, it might be different if you ever considered CU a rival. But you have ignored them for so long that you don't even get props for winning a rivalry, just another piss poor Big 12 N opponent.

Oklahoma is NU's rival.
I could give a shit what ABC or Colorado or any media member would like the world to believe.
Here in Nebraska, ask any real fan, it's OU.
And yes, they punked our ass.

Sky · Post by **Sky** » Tue Nov 29, 2005 7:33 pm

Well here for starters

I just find it funny that you love to revel in your huge victory with your dominant WC offense and impressive option play.

Cornhusker · Post by **Cornhusker** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 1:27 pm

Sky wrote:Well here for starters

I just find it funny that you love to revel in your huge victory with your dominant WC offense and impressive option play.

And nayer a word was spoken when CU won 62-36. It's a college football smack forum son.

I guess my definition of "running your mouth " is different than yours.

Again, what in that post is not factual?
Was not the game delayed?
Didn't not CU fan throw shit on the field?
Did not 2 assholes run across the field, one wearing the Burger King king's mask?

Did not Colorado have about 12 recruits at the game?
And finally, did not a CU assistant become the fall guy for sexual favors for recruits?

I'll wait.