France runs away from its past

[Mister Bushice]

WTF? are the frogs learning lessons from Japan?

France Upholds Law That Smooths History

By NATHALIE SCHUCK, Associated Press Writer Tue Nov 29, 4:02 PM ET

PARIS - France's parliament voted Tuesday to uphold a law that puts an upbeat spin on the country's painful colonial past, ignoring complaints from historians and the former French territory of Algeria.
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The law, passed quietly this year, requires school textbooks to address France's "positive role" in its former colonies.

France's lower house, in a 183-94 vote, rejected an effort by the opposition Socialists to kill the law. Passage would have been unusual, since the effort to overturn the law came from the conservative government's political enemies.

The law has embarrassed conservative
President Jacques Chirac and threatens to delay the signing of a friendship treaty between France and the North African nation of Algeria. France's one-time colonial jewel won independence in 1962 after a brutal eight-year conflict France only recently called a war.

Education Minister Gilles de Robien said last month that textbooks would not be changed, despite the law. However, the Socialists said the measure was offensive to former colonies and French citizens with roots there, and should be erased.

The debate comes on the heels of three weeks of unrest by youths in France's poor suburbs — many of them immigrants or of North African origin. The troubles were widely seen as a desperate cry for equality by a population shunted to the margins of mainstream society.

Jean-Marc Ayrault, head of the Socialist group in the National Assembly, the lower chamber, said the law was a political and educational aberration.

"Today we can repair this mistake, because it is a mistake," he said on France-Inter radio before the debate.

"Our history, if we want it to be shared by French citizens as a whole, must recognize both glorious achievements, but also the darker moments with lucidity, without there being an official history decided by parliamentarians."

Lawmakers from the governing conservative UMP party passed the law in February when only a handful of deputies were present. It came under full public scrutiny only in recent months with a petition by history teachers. It was denounced at a recent annual meeting of historians.

The language that offends stipulates that "school programs recognize in particular the positive character of the French overseas presence, notably in North Africa."

Algerian President Abdelaziz Bouteflika has equated the law with "mental blindness," and said it smacks of revisionism. Algeria's Parliament called it a "grave precedent."

The measure threatens to delay the signing of a friendship treaty between France and Algeria, which once was an integral part of France.

Only in 1999 did France finally call the Algerian conflict a "war." Before then, France referred only to operations to "maintain order."

[Gunslinger]

WTF? are the frogs learning lessons from Japan?

France Upholds Law That Smooths History

By NATHALIE SCHUCK, Associated Press Writer Tue Nov 29, 4:02 PM ET

PARIS - France's parliament voted Tuesday to uphold a law that puts an upbeat spin on the country's painful colonial past, ignoring complaints from historians and the former French territory of Algeria.
ADVERTISEMENT

The law, passed quietly this year, requires school textbooks to address France's "positive role" in its former colonies.

France's lower house, in a 183-94 vote, rejected an effort by the opposition Socialists to kill the law. Passage would have been unusual, since the effort to overturn the law came from the conservative government's political enemies.

The law has embarrassed conservative
President Jacques Chirac and threatens to delay the signing of a friendship treaty between France and the North African nation of Algeria. France's one-time colonial jewel won independence in 1962 after a brutal eight-year conflict France only recently called a war.

Education Minister Gilles de Robien said last month that textbooks would not be changed, despite the law. However, the Socialists said the measure was offensive to former colonies and French citizens with roots there, and should be erased.

The debate comes on the heels of three weeks of unrest by youths in France's poor suburbs — many of them immigrants or of North African origin. The troubles were widely seen as a desperate cry for equality by a population shunted to the margins of mainstream society.

Jean-Marc Ayrault, head of the Socialist group in the National Assembly, the lower chamber, said the law was a political and educational aberration.

"Today we can repair this mistake, because it is a mistake," he said on France-Inter radio before the debate.

"Our history, if we want it to be shared by French citizens as a whole, must recognize both glorious achievements, but also the darker moments with lucidity, without there being an official history decided by parliamentarians."

Lawmakers from the governing conservative UMP party passed the law in February when only a handful of deputies were present. It came under full public scrutiny only in recent months with a petition by history teachers. It was denounced at a recent annual meeting of historians.

The language that offends stipulates that "school programs recognize in particular the positive character of the French overseas presence, notably in North Africa."

Algerian President Abdelaziz Bouteflika has equated the law with "mental blindness," and said it smacks of revisionism. Algeria's Parliament called it a "grave precedent."

The measure threatens to delay the signing of a friendship treaty between France and Algeria, which once was an integral part of France.

Only in 1999 did France finally call the Algerian conflict a "war." Before then, France referred only to operations to "maintain order."

The problem with the American Press is the good that is happening in Iraq is not getting to the American people. Criticizing our president puts our troops in harms way, just sayin'.

[tough love]

The problem with the American Press is the good that is happening in Iraq is not getting to the American people. Criticizing our president puts our troops in harms way, just sayin'.

Truth tends to do that when applied to wrongful endeavor, just saying.

[Mister Bushice]

Hellooo we're talking about France re writing history through their education system.

Lets pile on the right group here mm'kay?

[mothster]

hey they gave us lafayette and escargot

[Mister Bushice]

Here are the lyrics:

France is a bitch, don't forget to fuck her till she's exhausted/You have to treat her like a slut, man." At another point, Mr Makela says: "I piss on Napoleon and on General de Gaulle."

He didn't really call France a slut, he just said you should treat france like one.

And "Her"? France is more of an effeminate boy than a woman.

[Gunslinger]

Here are the lyrics:

France is a bitch, don't forget to fuck her till she's exhausted/You have to treat her like a slut, man." At another point, Mr Makela says: "I piss on Napoleon and on General de Gaulle."

He didn't really call France a slut, he just said you should treat france like one.

And "Her"? France is more of an effeminate boy than a woman.

Effeminate boy? Great, now you'll have mvscal searching the net for pictures of France just tryin to suck it off.

[OCmike]

Here are the lyrics:

France is a bitch, don't forget to fuck her till she's exhausted/You have to treat her like a slut, man." At another point, Mr Makela says: "I piss on Napoleon and on General de Gaulle."

Remind me about the part again where rap is supposed to be lyrical poetry about the trials of inner-city life... Please tell me how some dude walked into a record exec's office with that steaming pile and scored himself a record contract. Unbelievable...

And "Her"? France is more of an effeminate boy than a woman.

Rack.

As to the article... While what France is attempting may be shameful, it's barely worse (if at all) than the way we remember our country's treatment of American Indians. You look in any standard grade school-level history book and pretty much the only mention you'll get of indians is how they slaughtered Custer, slaughtered settlers, attacked wagon trains, etc, etc. You'll be lucky if there's even a two-sentence blurb about the trail of tears or any other atrocities that we committed against them.

Same goes for WWII. You'll have entire chapters on the pacific theater of the war, but you'll be lucky to see more than a paragraph about Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

[OCmike]

You look in any standard grade school-level history book and pretty much the only mention you'll get of indians is how they slaughtered Custer, slaughtered settlers, attacked wagon trains, etc, etc. You'll be lucky if there's even a two-sentence blurb about the trail of tears or any other atrocities that we committed against them.

What alternate plane of reality are you from?

You're right. I forgot that they also don't include us buying the island of Manhattan from them for a pocket pussy, a case of Old Bay Seasoning, and a gift certificate for Surf 'n Turf at Applebee's.

Same goes for WWII. You'll have entire chapters on the pacific theater of the war, but you'll be lucky to see more than a paragraph about Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

How many paragraphs does it take to say, "Game Over"?

[/quote]

As I was typing that, I was guessing you'd reply, "How many paragraphs does it take to say 'we greased a few hundred thousand japs'." I was still close... :D

The point being, not that we need four pages of Nagasaki descriptions, but that every society who writes their own books glorifies bullshit and whitewashes over the not-so-rosy events. For instance, you'd be lucky to find any mention at all about the Bataan Death March in Japanese history books, but it's damn sure mentioned in ours!

[OCmike]

OC is right about the whitewashing of our treatment of Native Americans...

Mace

More than a whitewashing, it's damn near an omission. I guess there's not a whole lot to talk about in US History in the last 25 years of the 1800's (mvscal correction in 3...2...1...), but that's gotta be the shortest chapter in every general history book I ever read.

[Mister Bushice]

Is that still going on in todays history books here in the US?

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

Is that still going on in todays history books here in the US?

Educate yourself.

How sad that a Canadian has to drop the knowledge to a bunch of Yanks on their own history.

I'll let you all get back to watching "The Amazing Race" or eating something from a squeeze tube, or whatever the hell it is you do instead of thinking.

[Gunslinger]

Is that still going on in todays history books here in the US?

Educate yourself.

How sad that a Canadian has to drop the knowledge to a bunch of Yanks on their own history.

I'll let you all get back to watching "The Amazing Race" or eating something from a squeeze tube, or whatever the hell it is you do instead of thinking.

FREE QUEBEC!!

If you haven't realized yet Martyred, but the dumb fucks that elected our piece of shit president are having their asses handed to them in bars, Thanksgiving dinners, workplaces, etc...

then I can't help you. The internet is the last place for these denizens and their reign is ending. The only problem most Americans are having is how do we punch our relative in the face who still supports these fuckers without offending others. In America it comes down to smokers staring each other down at the kitchen table until one of them speaks. They do and the only one who disagrees with their views is standing outside smoking, because there are children around who don't smoke. The children tend to be those of the in house smokers.

Make sense? No? Republicans dick suckers don't give a shit about anyone, but their ignorant selves, not even their asthmatic children. The guy who does the same shit as them and is willing to kick their asses is outside smoking cigarettes in consideration of others. In America he is coming back in.

GOD BLESS AMERICA, LAND THAT I LOOOOOOOOOOOOVEEEE!! STAND BESIDE HER AND GUIDE HER >>>>>>>>>>>>>>..

[Mister Bushice]

Is that still going on in todays history books here in the US?

Educate yourself.

How sad that a Canadian has to drop the knowledge to a bunch of Yanks on their own history.

I'll let you all get back to watching "The Amazing Race" or eating something from a squeeze tube, or whatever the hell it is you do instead of thinking.

Umm, I was actually hoping someone like MTLR would respond. Not some canuck with a URL and no real idea of what happens here in the US except what he's made up in his own head.

I was talking about the current grade school classroom text books and associated learning from teachers who DO know the truth.

Nevermind, marty.

Next?

[tough love]

Nevermind, marty.

Next?

# 18?
That would be me.

Mace Wrote:
OC is right about the whitewashing of our treatment of Native Americans, not to mention Japanese Americans during WWII.

It's got to do with that 'greater than all else' mindset thingy your real rulers gots going on.
Given the circumstances, your Ma$ters will stomp down on anyone anywhere (including their own) whom they feel is standing in the way of their mighty greed.
This is why this Earth will be far better off without their kind of a drag.


Hope for America Ugly:.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/11/30 ... ransplant/

French surgeons have carried out the first face transplant using material from a brain-dead donor.


And fuc Leech Quebec.
The sooner those poser canucks git their pathetic whiney asses booted the hell outta Canada, the better it will be for all Real Canadians.


And Merry Chri$tma$ to All. :)

[BSmack]

Is that still going on in todays history books here in the US?

Educate yourself.

How sad that a Canadian has to drop the knowledge to a bunch of Yanks on their own history.

I'll let you all get back to watching "The Amazing Race" or eating something from a squeeze tube, or whatever the hell it is you do instead of thinking.

Umm, I was actually hoping someone like MTLR would respond. Not some canuck with a URL and no real idea of what happens here in the US except what he's made up in his own head.

I was talking about the current grade school classroom text books and associated learning from teachers who DO know the truth.

Nevermind, marty.

Next?

I'm not sure that Lab Rat would answer much differently than Marty on this particular subject. Anybody familiar at all with Mike's postings should know that he has frequently referenced "Lies My Teacher Told Me" by James Lowen when posting about the ills of American history instruction. Simply put, what you learned in your HS American history classroom was as much fable as it was fact. From the whitewash of Native and African American history to the oversimplification and outright denial of taboo topics like Woodrow Wilson's racism and our nation's xenophobia, American history has been butchered and misconstrued in ways that would leave a certain poster from Tallahassee shitting his pants.

[BSmack]

our nation's xenophobia,

Go ahead and gloss right over the fact that America is the least xenophobic nation in the history of mankind, dickhead.

So? Does that absolve us from our sins?

So how would that differ from Lowen's communist diatribe?

Lowen is as much a commie as you are.

[titlover]

our nation's xenophobia,

Go ahead and gloss right over the fact that America is the least xenophobic nation in the history of mankind, dickhead.

So? Does that absolve us from our sins?

So how would that differ from Lowen's communist diatribe?

Lowen is as much a commie as you are.

it means we're the example to be followed while fucks like you paint us to be the worst offenders. get it yet?

[BSmack]

Go ahead and gloss right over the fact that America is the least xenophobic nation in the history of mankind, dickhead.

So? Does that absolve us from our sins?

It puts them in the proper perspective.

I've read Lowen. Nowhere can I recall Lowen refering to other societies as ones we should emulate. But feel free to keep justing with straw men.

[BSmack]

I never claimed that he did. You were saying something about strawmen?

So why do you feel compelled to draw moral equivalencies?

[BSmack]

Another strawman?

You were the one who said "Go ahead and gloss right over the fact that America is the least xenophobic nation in the history of mankind", not me.

Feeling a retraction coming on?

[BSmack]

Why would I retract that? Xenophobia is humanity's default setting.

Only in America has it been overcome in any meaningful degree despite the best efforts of shit eating cumstains like Lowen to drive wedges between the different groups in our society.

Obviously you have never read Lowen.