So long to the West Coast offense Detroit

BSmack · Post by **BSmack** » Fri Dec 02, 2005 9:27 pm

Hearing thing like "In a perfect world, Kevin would get the ball 20-30 times" has got to be music to Lions fans ears.

"We've got to get Kevin Jones the football,"

Yes, I do own Kevin Jones in one of my leagues.

:wink:

Shoalzie · Post by **Shoalzie** » Fri Dec 02, 2005 9:39 pm

Olson called plays at the end of last season and the offense was solid. I wish Jauron was starting Harrington instead of Garcia though...he arm is shot and with the line is playing, Garcia is going to be in the hospital by halftime. Jones was great in the last half of the season because he actually got the ball. He's one of those guys that might only get 10 touches for most of the game and then the 11th could be for a long TD. Mariucci was too into using the three back rotation. Pinner should spell Jones when he needs to rest for a snap or two and Bryson should be in on 3rd down and long because of his catching ability. Jones should get no fewer than 20-25 touches a game. I really would like to see Olson be the offensive coordinator full time.

drummer · Post by **drummer** » Fri Dec 02, 2005 10:10 pm

How good is Harrington if a gimpy Garcia beats him out ?

Hell , if it's a conservative game plan with a lot of ground game , Garcia can manage that . Moochie and Tollner did that in SF .

I never see a Detroit game here , but how is it that in the WCO , those 3 big recievers don't get much YAC yardage ? Do they run those slant and short patterns there ?

Shoalzie · Post by **Shoalzie** » Fri Dec 02, 2005 10:58 pm

drummer wrote:I never see a Detroit game here , but how is it that in the WCO , those 3 big recievers don't get much YAC yardage ? Do they run those slant and short patterns there ?

One problem is the lack of time the line gives the quarterback to scan the field. If the play takes 3 seconds to run, the line blocks for 2. If they can start running the ball, that should loosen up the defense on the other side and allow the quarterback to get more time. When teams figure out that all you have to do is blitz against them, they aren't that hard to contain. The young receivers do need to learn how to get better seperation and come back to the ball when the QB is running for their life. (Roy) Williams is probably the best overall receiver on the team...when he's healthy and his mind is into it, he's a force. (Mike) Williams is a little flaky and Rogers head is always someplace other than it supposed to be. It's been very frustrating to watch the variety of problems this team has ran into during the season...I wish it would end tomorrow and we can start looking for a coach and tweak the roster.

drummer · Post by **drummer** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 12:32 am

Shoalzie wrote:
drummer wrote:I never see a Detroit game here , but how is it that in the WCO , those 3 big recievers don't get much YAC yardage ? Do they run those slant and short patterns there ?

One problem is the lack of time the line gives the quarterback to scan the field. If the play takes 3 seconds to run, the line blocks for 2. If they can start running the ball, that should loosen up the defense on the other side and allow the quarterback to get more time. When teams figure out that all you have to do is blitz against them, they aren't that hard to contain. The young receivers do need to learn how to get better seperation and come back to the ball when the QB is running for their life. (Roy) Williams is probably the best overall receiver on the team...when he's healthy and his mind is into it, he's a force. (Mike) Williams is a little flaky and Rogers head is always someplace other than it supposed to be. It's been very frustrating to watch the variety of problems this team has ran into during the season...I wish it would end tomorrow and we can start looking for a coach and tweak the roster.

The QB usually has a 3 step drop in the WCO . It's up to the receiver to run precise patterns to make it work . Is Tollner the OC there ? Morenwiegh was a better OC in SF .

Millen should have tried to keep Marty as OC .

WolverineSteve · Post by **WolverineSteve** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 4:17 am

I don't know whether to blame the players or the coaches, I'm not close enough to the action to tell. However, there is so much fucking talent on offense that they should be averaging 28+ ppg. Jones is a stud in the making. I heard Mooch say that Bryson and Pinnear deserve their carries...I say bullshit. I watch every game and know that when Bryson is in the game... if it isn't a draw, it's a screen pass. Predictability kills!! Make Jones THE MAN, keep Bryson or Pinnear, or both, just get them comfy in their roles. THROW THE BALL DOWNFIELD!!! Fuck the east to west passing game, and the 3rd and 5 check down to a 3 yard flat route!! Nothing pisses the fans off more than a 3rd down completion short of a first down. I'd rather see an inc. or a deep int. for that matter (based on field position of course). The defense is going to be a strength for years to come, this team is built to contend sooner than later. I don't know who they should hire as HC but whoever it is will inherit a talented team that's not far from the big dance.

Sorry about the rant, but damn that felt good.

Funkywhiteboy · Post by **Funkywhiteboy** » Sun Dec 04, 2005 8:01 am

About time Detroit scrapped the "West Coast" offense, seeing as they're in the Midwest. :P

G.O. · Post by **G.O.** » Sun Dec 04, 2005 1:48 pm

BSmack wrote: Yes, I do own Kevin Jones in one of my leagues.

:wink:

still? damn, i scrapped him after about a week. and he was rated #4 overall in some keeper league FF magazine ranking.

BSmack · Post by **BSmack** » Sun Dec 04, 2005 2:08 pm

G.O. wrote:
BSmack wrote: Yes, I do own Kevin Jones in one of my leagues.

:wink:
still? damn, i scrapped him after about a week. and he was rated #4 overall in some keeper league FF magazine ranking.

It's a deep league. 12 teams with 5 WRs and 5 RBs per team.

Shoalzie · Post by **Shoalzie** » Sun Dec 04, 2005 2:37 pm

Smart move to hang onto Jones...all he needs is touches for him to be a weapon again. I don't think the Lions will win today but I'd at least like to see the offense flourish without Mooch holding them back.

Funkywhiteboy · Post by **Funkywhiteboy** » Sun Dec 04, 2005 11:45 pm

Shoalzie wrote:I don't think the Lions will win today

Right on that count! :P

MSUFAN · Post by **MSUFAN** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 1:06 am

(Just has to be done. I don't know what's worse. The kid wielding a sign like that at a game. Or the fact that there's not an EMPTY seat around him.
Until the FANS stop supporting this fucked ownership, this will forever be a 7-9 team at best!)

Cross Traffic · Post by **Cross Traffic** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 2:08 am

That is my question. Old Man Ford rewards Millen with a 5 year extension. For what? Keeping the team at its shitty self for the past 5 years?

Shoalzie · Post by **Shoalzie** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 8:55 am

There's a strange relationship between LionFan and the team. I don't think there is a sports franchise that is loved and hated more by their own fans. You can't deny the loyalty but I almost see it as a helpless addiction.

I seriously didn't want to watch today because there's no hope for the rest of the season but I tuned in thinking this could be the first game of their turnaround. It was the same old crap...conservative offense, solid effort from some going unrewarded and angry fans.

Garcia shouldn't play another game because there's no future for him in this city. Harrington or Orlovsky should be the QB for the remainder of the season because this team isn't going anywhere and they need to evaluate every member of this team from top to bottom.

As for the Millen/Ford family thing. This is our team at the same time that it is their team. Fans were there before they were here and they'll be there after they're gone. I can never say I'll abandon this team no matter how bad it gets. I've only dealt 20 years of this while some have dealt with it for twice as long. I know the greatest day of being a LionFan is yet to come and to leave now is essentially quitting something you've put some much time and energy into. It will get better but I just don't know when.

Shoalzie · Post by **Shoalzie** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 8:58 am

Cross Traffic wrote:That is my question. Old Man Ford rewards Millen with a 5 year extension. For what? Keeping the team at its shitty self for the past 5 years?

I heard from many that he got the extension because Ford likes Millen. If you're a likeable guy, you're bulletproof. It's scary to think if this is how things are in the business world. You can screw things up royally but as long as your in good with the suits, you'll always have a job.

BSmack · Post by **BSmack** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 3:17 pm

Shoalzie wrote:
Cross Traffic wrote:That is my question. Old Man Ford rewards Millen with a 5 year extension. For what? Keeping the team at its shitty self for the past 5 years?

I heard from many that he got the extension because Ford likes Millen. If you're a likeable guy, you're bulletproof. It's scary to think if this is how things are in the business world. You can screw things up royally but as long as your in good with the suits, you'll always have a job.

From what I've been reading, Ford has Millen over to his house once a week for dinner. So yea, I guess they're tight.

BTW: Wassup with Jones' quad? I was glad to see Juron rest Jones this week to get him ready for my playoff run. It is always good to see a coach respect the fantasy implications of his players. But will Jones be gassed up and ready go against the Pack?

Shoalzie · Post by **Shoalzie** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 4:02 pm

I'd like to say I know what Jones' deal is. I was surprised to tune in and see him in street clothes and Rogers being inactive after reading he was getting reps as the #1 receiver. Expect the unexpected with this crew. Jones had one of his best games last year in the cold and snow at Lambeau last season...if he plays, I'd expect him to do the same. The problem with him hasn't been just the lack of touches, he gets banged up in every game. Shoulder, ankle, knee, quad, neck...it's probably been a little bit of everything for him. He takes lots of contact in a game...he's not a guy who will go through a season without getting dinged. I doubt we'll see him at 100% the rest of the season but I doubt he's done playing. If they pick up a running back during the week, that'll raise a red flag that it's something more serious than a week-to-week injury. If they don't, I'd guess he'd be a game-time decision. I wish he would play because he's a joy to watch him take on tacklers and run hard but he takes a beating. Having Pinner and Bryson is a saving grace from the standpoint that Jones needs a rest during a game.

MgoBlue-LightSpecial · Mon Dec 05, 2005 5:08 pm

MSUFAN wrote:

(Just has to be done. I don't know what's worse. The kid wielding a sign like that at a game. Or the fact that there's not an EMPTY seat around him.
Until the FANS stop supporting this fucked ownership, this will forever be a 7-9 team at best!)

Yes. The Lions have implemented The Producers philosophy...you can make more money with a flop, than with a hit.

Shoalzie · Post by **Shoalzie** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 5:57 pm

MgoBlue-LightSpecial wrote:Yes. The Lions have implemented The Producers philosophy...you can make more money with a flop, than with a hit.

RACK the analogy. I think this team is just as popular now as when Barry was playing. LionFan is a sheep and all I can say to that is BAAAAAH!

Shoalzie · Post by **Shoalzie** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 6:18 pm

A few more images of the angry fans from yesterday's game can be found here:

http://freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article? ... 5512050364

Cue the Twisted Sister "We're Not Gonna Take It"

WolverineSteve · Post by **WolverineSteve** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 6:43 pm

Shoalz,

My buddy in Detroit called and said that one of the radio stations is organizing an "angry fan march". I think it'll be on the last home game. He also said that security was tossing out fans who donned paper bags. WTF!! If the people who lay out the $$ for season tix can't express their disdain, what kind of bubble are the Fords living in.

Sellthelions.com ought to get up and running.

PS. Someone wore a great T-shirt to the game as well....Rebuilding since 1957.

He got the door as well.

Shoalzie · Post by **Shoalzie** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 7:05 pm

What's the deal, has Millen and Ford been going to the Herman Edwards' School of Positivity? Makes me think he could end up being the next Lions coach. I'm rooting for a tough nosed college coach like a Pat Hill or Kirk Ferentz or an offensive mind like Tom Moore but we'll get stuck with another spineless shill of Millen and Ford. I'd love to see the fans actually organize a protest...we deserve better. Even if Millen is let go, Ford will hire another lapdog even with a guy like Ron Wolf sitting out there.

MSUFAN · Post by **MSUFAN** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 12:45 am

I think Shoalz is onto something in your previous post. The fact that Lions fans have been on the cusp for this team since the 1960's. They've had their share of a couple of teams do well, and get to the NFC Championship games, only to get blasted.
Then of course we had Barry, who many fans still cling to. The fact that maybe, just maybe we can get that magical feeling we had when Barry had us all in awe. Your analogy of so much time and effort has been spent hanging in there to see this team at least GET to a SB, that is what makes them go to the games, yet have such a disdain for the team and organization. It's almost like some sick cult thing, ya know? Get shitfaced, go to a Lions game, and see what new miraculous ways they can find to lose a game! Again, and Again, and Again! I've seen this team INVENT new ways of losing! And I know you know that too. But I can assuredly say, I will NOT follow this shit team, until I wake up one Monday, and read that they made the playoffs.
And I'm being serious. No more TV. No more listening on radio. I could give a shit. There's so much more to do sports wise in Michigan during the months of Nov. to June, it's not even funny. Pistons in June. Wings too! UM and MSU basketball! Even Hockey! I refuse to be "Jewed" by the Fords any more!

MSUFAN · Post by **MSUFAN** » Sun Dec 11, 2005 2:04 pm

Just wanted to bump this kid

Some big buck ni_&&er tackled this poor fan after a 12 section chase. I'd have fallen hard then screamed in "pain", and sued the livin Hell outta the Fords.

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 12:19 am

mvscal wrote:The West Coast offense started in Cincinnati.

If you reallyreallyreally stretch the truth out, then yeah, I suppose.

If you ask Bill Walsh, the guy who actually did the first implementation of what we kind-of know as the "West Coast Offense," he gives credit(since he's humble) for the inspiration the Jerry Burns of the Vikings. This isn't particularly accurate either, more a case of Walsh giving his buddy some props, but it's a lot more accurate than trying to place the origin in Cincinatti. Walsh was an assistant in Cincy and claims the Burns offense inspired some of his short-pass philosophies.

I can't believe what NFL fans and followers will refer to as the "West Coast Offense."

Sincerely,
PAC 10 Fan

Not one offense in the NFL bears any particularly strong resemblance to the REAL West Coast Offense. If you want to see what a real WCO looks like, watch a USC, Oregon, Cal, or Wazzu game. THAT'S WCO. If you're not sending 2 TE's on routes just about every play, you're not playing WCO.

What has evolved to become the modern version of the WCO is a derivitive of the old Run-and-Shoot (which any more is only played by the University of Hawaii), but with more run plays to keep the LB's at home. And I think over the years I've explained where the Run-and-Shoot came from, which is very definitely from the West Coast.

But please, don't call that half-assed bullshit Detroit is running a "West Coast Offense," for the sake of all that is holy.

T1B

So long to the West Coast offense Detroit

So long to the West Coast offense Detroit

Re: So long to the West Coast offense Detroit

Re: So long to the West Coast offense Detroit