YOUR Top 5 Heisman List: Wk Ending 11/5

Van · Post by **Van** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 8:53 pm

I dunno, Palmer looked awfully mediocre there for a good long while during his USC career.

Leinart's played like The Man almost from Day One.

Killian · Post by **Killian** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 8:57 pm

Van wrote:I dunno, Palmer looked awfully mediocre there for a good long while during his USC career.

Leinart's played like The Man almost from Day One.

Well, Palmer did have a few years of Paul Hackett.

Van · Post by **Van** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 9:01 pm

Killian wrote:
Van wrote:I dunno, Palmer looked awfully mediocre there for a good long while during his USC career.

Leinart's played like The Man almost from Day One.
Well, Palmer did have a few years of Buddy Hackett.

Roofer · Post by **Roofer** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 9:06 pm

Van wrote:I dunno, Palmer looked awfully mediocre there for a good long while during his USC career.

Leinart's played like The Man almost from Day One.

No disputing that, but I think you need to look at the fact that Palmer was the one who had to learn Chow's system "on the job" if you will, while Leinart got to learn it in practice. By the time Matty became the starter, he had it down pat. My take really goes beyond numbers and stats. There's just something that tells me Leinart won't be the same sucessful QB Palmer is. I really hope I'm wrong about that.

Van · Post by **Van** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 9:08 pm

Didn't Palmer attend Chow's practices??

Roofer · Post by **Roofer** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 9:14 pm

Van wrote:Didn't Palmer attend Chow's practices??

\

Are you insinuating that there's no learning curve when trying to pick up a new system? I hope that's not what you are insinuating.

Van · Post by **Van** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 9:17 pm

\

That one cracked me up. It reminded me of ppanther. She always used to use things like that.

Roofer · Post by **Roofer** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 9:32 pm

Van wrote:
\
That one cracked me up. It reminded me of ppanther. She always used to use things like that.

Yeah, except that was a typo, and you didn't address the point being made. :wink:

Point is, Palmer learned the system in practice AND on the field in game situations. Leinart got to learn it just in practice. I'm sure if Matt had been the starter first, with Carson following in his footsteps....well you get the picture.

I think.

Van · Post by **Van** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 9:59 pm

What year did Chow arrive at USC? I don't recall exactly, and I've got too many plates in the air right now to look it up...

Killian · Post by **Killian** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 10:01 pm

Van wrote:What year did Chow arrive at USC? I don't recall exactly, and I've got too many plates in the air right now to look it up...

I believe for the 2001 season.

Jimmy Medalions · Post by **Jimmy Medalions** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 10:10 pm

Killian is right, 2001 when Carroll came in.

Palmer had some seriously-inferior teams as compared to Leinart, not to mention the year he missed thanks to a busted collarbone suffered in Eugene.

I always saw Palmer as a pro as well, once he had all the tools around him. That finally came to pasture in 2001 for him.

Leinart had an easier go of things, having enjoyed the benefit of a year under Chow in practice and a vastly-improved offense and defense. I was wrong about him...didn't think he'd be able to step in and be the man. I'm glad I was wrong.

I'm not sold on him as an NFL player, but then again I'm not an NFL scout like Vito is.

From what I'm hearing out of Heritage Hall, Leinart is going to work out great...for what it's worth.

Van · Post by **Van** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 11:13 pm

I'm not convinced Leinart will ever be an All Pro but I think barring injury he'll at least end up having a solid NFL career as a star NFL starting QB.

I'm also not an NFL scout like Vito is but my amatuer internet scouting diploma's "NFL Bust!" meter instantly pegs redline whenever I plug in VY's name and a little game film...

GreginPG · Post by **GreginPG** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 6:21 am

Roofer wrote:
Cicero wrote:Actually, I think Leniart has all the tools to be a very good QB in the NFL. He reminds me of a left-handed Palmer in that they have tons of starts behind them, cool head on their shoulders and have had big game experience. Yes, I think that Leinart has benefitted from having great talent around him, but I think that a lot of that talent has also benefitted from Leinart. If Chad Pennington and drew Brees can be All-Pros and lead teams to the playoffs in the NFL, I dont see whey Leinart isnt capable of the same.

I didn't have the luxury of watching every one of Brees or Pennington's games like I have for Palmer and Leinart. I do know both those guys were highly touted during their college careers as prototypical pro quarterbacks. Leinart has been mentioned to possibly be a good NFL QB, but I don't think it's wrong to say he hasn't had the year this year that he did last year. Truthfully, I think Brady Quinn or Drew Olsen deserve to be going to NY more than Leinart. I wasn't so down on Matt until he really struggled in the early going of that UCLA game. He was overthrowing everything, and not because of pressure from the D either. I don't know what was happening with him, but he was off, and has been off at times this year. I will agree with the big game experience, the many starts, and being exposed to a winning program.

There is no way you can get down on a guy for a bad half of football. That's just stupid. All he has done this year is win. He's done it with numbers that are very close to last year, so I think it would be very wrong of you to say "he hasn't had the year this year that he did last year." He didn't lose last year either. Matt deserves to go to NY. Feel free to invite Olsen and Quinn if you want but to say they deserve to be there more than Matt?? I don't think so.

Here's Leinart's career numbers. Pretty damn consistent I'd say. Let's not forget he's something like 38-1 in those 3 years.

2005..254/391, 3450 yds, 27 TD's, 7 INT's (436 plays)
2004..269/412, 3322 yds, 33 TD's, 6 INT's (461 plays)
2003..255/402, 3556 yds, 38 TD's, 9 INT's (434 plays)

Jimmy Medalions · Post by **Jimmy Medalions** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 6:25 am

Van wrote:I'm also not an NFL scout like Vito is but my amatuer internet scouting diploma's "NFL Bust!" meter instantly pegs redline whenever I plug in VY's name and a little game film...

Cicero · Post by **Cicero** » Sun Dec 11, 2005 4:13 pm

Bush had a great year and congrats on him winning the award. I am a little surprised that he won by soo much over VY, b/c VY had a great year. That guy is going to have some kind of chip on his shoulder come Jan 4th.

Van · Post by **Van** » Sun Dec 11, 2005 5:18 pm

As did Jason White last year...

Adelpiero · Post by **Adelpiero** » Sun Dec 11, 2005 6:26 pm

Van wrote:As did Jason White last year...

^^^^^^^^^
The Jon of USC football fans.

Harvdog · Post by **Harvdog** » Sun Dec 11, 2005 6:30 pm

Adelpiero wrote:
Van wrote:As did Jason White last year...

^^^^^^^^^
The Jon of USC football fans.

RACK.

No shit. I swear I have never seen a fan with less to add but more of the same shit to say over and over.

Van · Post by **Van** » Sun Dec 11, 2005 6:43 pm

As opposed to the brilliant insights you and Adel keep adding.

Gotcha.

Anyway, okay, I'll play. Tell me why Vince Young should come into this game with any more of a chip on his shoulder than Jason White should've had last year? White was the returning Heisman winner and by many accounts his '04 season was better than his '03 season and his team went undefeated and still he lost the Heisman and the chance at Archie Griffen status when Leinart won the award.

White then got to face Leinart in the title game, in what would be White's final collegiate game; a chance to redeem himself and OU following the end of season debacle that occured in 2003.

If anything, White should've had an even bigger chip on his shoulder than VY. Tell me where this doesn't make sense.

Vito Corleone · Post by **Vito Corleone** » Sun Dec 11, 2005 11:32 pm

Van wrote:As opposed to the brilliant insights you and Adel keep adding.

Gotcha.

Anyway, okay, I'll play. Tell my why Vince Young should come into this game with any more of a chip on his shoulder than Jason White should've had last year? White was the returning Heisman winner and by many accounts his '04 season was better than his '03 season and his team went undefeated and still he lost the Heisman and the chance at Archie Griffen status when Leinart won the award.

White then got to face Leinart in the title game, in what would be White's final collegiate game; a chance to redeem himself and OU following the end of season debacle that occured in 2003.

If anything, White should've had an even bigger chip on his shoulder than VY. Tell me where this doesn't make sense.

Who the fuck is "by many accounts"? His 04 season was a shadow of his 03 season. It may have started with more hype but it sure as hell didn't go that way. Texas held his ass to >100 yards passing. His receivers didn't suck but they didn't perform like they did in 03. He like Leinart this year was bailed out by having a great running back behind him on a couple of occasions.

I personally don't care who is coming into this game with a chip on their shoulder. Vince and Reggie are going to be the two best players on the field, period. Vince will handle the ball every snap, Reggie maybe 20 time the whole game.

Texas 45 - USC 33

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 12:55 am

Texas Homer, repeat after me...

"Second most lopsided Heisman vote in history."

Repeat this phrase 3 times, and then maybe you can realize how delusional you are, and realize that your prognosticating...well...it just isn't very good, which you'll have no choice but to come to grips with, come 1/4/06.

campinfool · Post by **campinfool** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 2:28 am

Grtanted Bush may have been the best palyer in the country, but no way is he that much better than ANYONE else so much that the vote should be that lopsided. Either way we will see how ordinary he really is when the Texas Defense gives him a dirty sanchez and Leinart a hot lunch. Texas will royally fuck the Trojans now. Bet on it .

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 3:19 am

campinfool wrote:Grtanted Bush may have been the best palyer in the country, but no way is he that much better than ANYONE else so much that the vote should be that lopsided.

So, you're suggesting that Heisman voters should vote for their #2 pick, just so it doesn't look so lopsided?

Texas logic at its finest.

Vito Corleone · Post by **Vito Corleone** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 10:09 am

As a Longhorn fan I think losing the Heisman like this is the best news I have heard.

Spoke with a buddy of mine down in Austin, the mood of the team is bad, real bad, they feel Young was disrespected on TV by the media and voters.

To the team this was a slap in the face. According to my fried, (a guy who is not one to toss around fish stories, these guys are more focused than ever.

Van · Post by **Van** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 2:28 pm

campinfool wrote:Grtanted Bush may have been the best palyer in the country, but no way is he that much better than ANYONE else so much that the vote should be that lopsided. Either way we will see how ordinary he really is when the Texas Defense gives him a dirty sanchez and Leinart a hot lunch. Texas will royally fuck the Trojans now. Bet on it .

So, because Bush won th Hesiman by a lopsided vote Texas is now going to royally fuck the Trojans...

Critical thinking's not exactly your long suit then, I take it.

So, USC isn't going to be sky high to justify Reggie, just like Texas won't be sky high to redeem VY? USC won't be sky high to send off Leinart and the other seniors with the ultimate magic carpet ride?

Okay.

As for the lopsided nature of the vote, how else was it supposed to come out? Was Big XII Voter supposed to not vote for Bush, just to keep the voting closer?

If I'm not mistaken Heisman voters get to choose their top three picks, ranked from 1st through 3rd. Obviously Reggie was going to be #1 for nearly everybody and VY ended up being second for most people. I'm just surprised Reggie didn't win it unanimously. Who in their right mind voted for anybody above Reggie??

Van · Post by **Van** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 2:40 pm

Vito Corleone wrote:As a Longhorn fan I think losing the Heisman like this is the best news I have heard.

Spoke with a buddy of mine down in Austin, the mood of the team is bad, real bad, they feel Young was disrespected on TV by the media and voters.

To the team this was a slap in the face. According to my fried, (a guy who is not one to toss around fish stories, these guys are more focused than ever.

For the second time, what, are you sixteen years old???

"My buddy says Texas is super duper focused now! Grrrrr!!! VY's gangstas think VY got dissed!!"

Lemme guess...Now VY is REALLY going to go on out there and WIN THE GAME BY HIMSELF!!!!, right?

Again...

Poise...experience...talent...schemes..........execution. That's what wins games like these, not gangsta b.s.. I hope Texas and VY really are pissed. While USC's more experienced players continue to quietly go about the business of cutting up Texas they'll glady take those extra turnovers and other blown assignments that'll surely result from Texas' guys getting too caught up in their emotions...

campinfool · Post by **campinfool** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 1:28 am

I'm pretty peeved at all the talk of the "mood" and VY moping about losing the trophy. I really didn't think he would win, especially after the Aggie game. Regardless of the intended purpose the award is all about huge games late in the season. If the OSU/UT game was in Nov and not Sept then maybe the voting is closer. I agree that Bush deserved to win, my only beef is that of all the great players every year there is no way anyone is that much better than the runner up. I hope VY gets his pouting done with becasue it's gonna take a light-out Young on Jan 4th for Texas to have a shot. Plus he already has the winning % and a couple of other lesser trophies to make his school ,fans, and hometown proud.

moon · Post by **moon** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 8:40 am

Vito Corleone wrote:As a Longhorn fan I think losing the Heisman like this is the best news I have heard.

Spoke with a buddy of mine down in Austin, the mood of the team is bad, real bad, they feel Young was disrespected on TV by the media and voters.

To the team this was a slap in the face. According to my fried, (a guy who is not one to toss around fish stories, these guys are more focused than ever.

Young lost a vote that pretty much everyone knew he was going to lose to a guy that he should have lost to and he and team are now mad because the lose was by too much???

If that is Texas' mentality and that is what it takes for them to more focused on this game then they are fucked.

SoCalTrjn · Post by **SoCalTrjn** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 5:15 am

I still want to know how Young wound up with a 400 pound jack O lantern with a bad weave for a mom.