Bolts vs. Colts

[Rushville]

I would love to talk about this game as if both teams were going to play at their highest level. But last night on my way home I finally got the hint from Tony Dungy that the Colts won't be playing as if they have to win it.

According to Dungy on last night's daily Colts radio show, "We are going to play to win the game. But at the same time we have to get this team ready for the playoffs. And to get this team ready, we have to get some of our back-ups some playing time. Most notably would be Jim Sorgi (2nd string QB). We have to get him some snaps. I'm not going to tell guys that they're sitting out the game, because that would send a message. But other guys are going to get some playing time."

Up until now, the Colts have been very consistent in their answers to the questions of what they will do when they get to this point. Dungy has always said that "We'll cross that bridge when we come to it." The players have all been consistent with, "We'll do what Tony tells us." But finally, a clear answer was given and it appears that the undefeated season may just be out the window in favor of getting the team ready for the playoffs.

As a Colts fan, that's fine by me. I would love to see these guys play for history. But getting to the Super Bowl HAS to take top priority. We didn't go through the years of getting knocked out by New England, the 1-15 and 3-13 years so that we could get to this point and have the Arizona Cardinals take out Peyton Manning's knee.

So, sorry Charger fan. This week the Bolts have everything to play for while the Colts have nothing to play for. And the San Diego D is going to have to stop the Colts O while Jim Sorgi is taking half the snaps.

Chargers - 28
Colts - 21

[Felix]

As a Colts fan, that's fine by me.

You mean you're not caught up in all of the excitement about breaking a meaningless record and sending what remains of the undefeated Dolphins team into simultaneous coronary convulsions?

You mean you're not willing to sacrifice Harrison or James knees in the quest for perfection?

RACK Dungy for not getting caught up in the hype and losing sight of his ultimate goal

[Mikey]

The question is, will the Bolts play like the game is important to them?

They certainly didn't last week.

[Felix]

This "ultimate goal" is far more meaningless than a perfect season.

Why's that?

Isn't it the goal of every team that straps them up to win the World Championship?

What do you suppose Colts fan reaction would be if Manning went down with a broken arm in a meaningless game against Seattle......

[Rushville]

The one monkey that still remains on Peyton Manning's back is the "Can't win the big game." And if the Colts would run their starters out there against the likes of San Diego, Seattle, and Arizona and have something minor happen like Edgerrin turning an ankle, that could have a big effect on how teams play them in the playoffs. If Edgerrin isn't 100% in the AFC Title game and Cincinnati or New England or Denver or whoever gets there can key on that and adjust their defense just right to take the passing game away from Peyton, then that monkey will still be on Peyton's back. The whole country will continue to smack Peyton for not ever winning a title and the fact that they went 16-0 in the regular season will be meaningless.

In the Jacksonville game, we saw how players can get frustrated and begin purposely trying to injure people merely because they're tired of losing to the Colts. I'm sure San Diego will come in here with a chip on their shoulder after last year's loss. I don't think the Chargers have any guys that are that type would go nuts. But I didn't expect it out of Jacksonville either.

It would be nice to dethrone the '72 Dolphins. And I wish that Denver was 12-1 or J-ville was 11-2 so they still had the home field or the division to keep playing for. But the fact is, Super Bowl is top priority now.

I expect to see the starters play a good amount in each game in order to stay in rythym. And quite possibly, that may be enough to win these games. But if not, I'll be happy with "a mere championship."

[Felix]

They have a shot at becoming one of the most legendary squads in football history. That is far bigger than a mere championship.

not to Colt fan it's not

But if not, I'll be happy with "a mere championship."

Tell ya what, if San Diego is ever in the same position as the Colts are right now, then we can talk......

[BBMarley]

As a Colts fan- that is fantastic news. I like that Dungy doesn't get caught up in the hype- I think you'll proabbly see the starters for a half, then Sorgi, Rhoades, et al will be worked in.

As a fantasy playoff contender with James & Harrison- this news fucking SUCKS!!!!! :D

[Felix]

No perfect season. No Superbowl....but hey at least you gave Sorgi some snaps and that's the important thing.

So you're making the call that the Colts will not win the Superbowl......gutsy to say the least

I'll remember that........

[atomicdad]

I liked your first call R, 28-21 Chargers. :D

This is a tough game to call, as you pointed out how are the Colts going to come out playing?

The Bolts should be able to stop James, but I see no way the secondary can slow down Harrison, Stokely, and Wayne. I can see several PI's called on Jammer, he's always good for at least one a game, but I think Sunday just might be special for him. :?

The Chargers best chance is to control the clock on offense, albeit that did not work out so well last week. This week is essentially the start of their playoff run for the Bolts, lose and they have no shot at the post-season. They will be coming out ready to play, and as they showed last year they were able to hang around with the Colts only to lose in the final minutes.

It would have been nice to have this as a home game, hell the Bolts had to travel to Indy last year, WTF NFL.

[Cicero]

I think it is a little too soon to start mailing it in. I think the Colts will play their guys as long as it is still a game. I think the Colts win and go to Seattle playing their guys only one half. I see Seattle shutting it down by that time and I see the Colts still beating Seattle. I bet the Colts could start Sorgi and Rhodes against Zona and still dry hump them.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

I think if it comes down to risking injury or risking team chemistry/focus, you risk injury. They've been healthy for 13 games, why get paranoid about it now? Besides, matchups vs the Bolts and the Seahawks will be high caliber teams similar to what you face in the playoffs so they need to keep the intensity alive. And for all they know, they'll be playing Seattle again in the Super Bowl. Be prepared to stick it to them now, so you know how to if you have to play them again.

[Bucmonkey]

I would like to thank Peyton Manning for getting my JFFL team to the playoffs and a first round bye. Time to implode now.... :x

[Felix]

Be prepared to stick it to them now, so you know how to if you have to play them again.

Yeah, over the years Denver had a lot of success with that plan when they face the Colts......

[Tiny]

First off, Manning will start all three games, as I don't think he's really missed a start since he came into the NFL. How much he will play is a little different story. I think his amount of playing time will be dependent on how successful the first team offense is, while they have the ball.
One thing is for certain though: once he comes off the field, he still isn't done with the game. He will still be talking to Sorgi every down in the helmet, and "suggesting" plays, audibles, and helping read coverage packages just like he always does. (Before you say it, I know the receiver in the QB's helmet cuts out once the play clock hits 20-25 seconds; you know what I mean....).

One of the reasons Manning is so successful, is that he is the ultimate football geek. He lives and dies by the game plan, and he won't slack it off just because he thinks he might only play a quarter or two. Manning makes Sorgi a better player, just by being there to assist. Now granted, what has Sorgi seen, maybe 5-10 live game snaps all year??? That's the point of running him out there, isn't it??? There will definitely be a let down when he comes into the game, but Manning won't be hitting the showers during the 2nd quarter either.

BTW: Rhodes is no slouch either.... I think he had what, a little over a 1,000 yards a year or two ago? (Also: this was the only time he got any serious playing time in place of Edge). Why do you think they put him back there returning kicks....because it's a shame to not have that kind of talent playing somewhere on the field for you, at some point during the game.

I still think they might loose to the Bolts, but it all really depends on how well the defense holds up to the LT rushing attack (IMHO).
Remember: the Colts D-line is pass rush oriented team first and foremost; and the run stops usually come more from Bob Sanders (safety), and an occasional cornerback. Hell, Dwight Freeney usually runs all the way through the backfield, (after having overrun the ball carrier completely), and then circles back to catch him from behind (after he's gaine 6-8 yards of course). LT will probably increase that 6-8 yards to between 15 and 20, with his speed and quickness.

Should be a good game anywhoo, but the "perfect season" wasn't one that I thought to be a realistic goal in the first place. The real goal, (and BTW: the one that PAYS!!!!), is the Super Bowl.

[BBMarley]

.

I still think they might loose to the Bolts, but it all really depends on how well the defense holds up to the LT rushing attack (IMHO).
Remember: the Colts D-line is pass rush oriented team first and foremost; and the run stops usually come more from Bob Sanders (safety), and an occasional cornerback. Hell, Dwight Freeney usually runs all the way through the backfield, (after having overrun the ball carrier completely), and then circles back to catch him from behind (after he's gaine 6-8 yards of course). LT will probably increase that 6-8 yards to between 15 and 20, with his speed and quickness.

Should be a good game anywhoo, but the "perfect season" wasn't one that I thought to be a realistic goal in the first place. The real goal, (and BTW: the one that PAYS!!!!), is the Super Bowl.

Word is Simon & June will be sitting out due to injuries.

[BSmack]

I would like to thank Peyton Manning for getting my JFFL team to the playoffs and a first round bye. Time to implode now.... :x

Nah, you're good for one more week.

:wink:

[Rushville]

I'm beginning to wonder now. Last night's comments from Tony about practice would have you believe that their going about business as usual for the San Diego game. No mention of Sorgi or any other backups.

They did make one thing clear though. Anyone who might be dinged, like Marley mentioned, is definitely out. They said Cato June is going to try to be ready for this game, but they're not sure yet. But Simon and Mathis are most defeinitely not going to go. Both with minor foot problems.

It will be interesting to say the least. I could see them taking this game seriously, but then maybe Seattle and Arizona not so much. Seattle may have nothing to play for by next week. And Sorgi might be good enough to hold off any second half comeback attempt by Arizona.

Who really knows. I agree that rhythym should be kept going. I agree that rust is a big factor. But I still can't get the images out of my head of Jaguars players intentionally trying to injure Colts last week.

[BBMarley]

Who really knows. I agree that rhythym should be kept going. I agree that rust is a big factor. But I still can't get the images out of my head of Jaguars players intentionally trying to injure Colts last week.

True thast rush- but I don't think that San Diego is as dirty as Jax is. Plus- Jax was a division rival pissed b/c of how they were getting their asses handed to 'em

[Dumbass]

Pussies

[Rushville]

Heard more comments from Dungy last night.

Sounds more and more like Cato June is going to play. Which is good because they'll need his speed and pass coverage ability to help cover Gates.

They continued to say Simon and Mathis will be out.

Dungy was asked if the players have come to him and voiced their opinion on what to do. To paraphrase him, "They're very competitive guys. They think that the bye week after the last game will enough rest and they want to keep this thing going."

He was also asked if and when players will get rest. He concurred with the players in that this is way to early to consider resting people. He too thinks the bye week will be enough rest for most.

ASo it appears that either he's contradicting his own comments from Monday night or that clip of his comments that I heard was played out of context and he never was considering playing Sorgi this week.

Also heard an interview with Larry Czonka last night. One thing I didn't realize when talking aout the '72 Dolphins is that they had to play the AFC Title game on the road in Pittsburgh. :? If anyone has the time to research how home field was determined back then I'd be interested in reading it. But that shows that unlike this year's Colts, they didn't get to a point where home field was wrapped up and they could start determining who needed rest.

[drummer]

This "ultimate goal" is far more meaningless than a perfect season.

Why's that?

They have a shot at becoming one of the most legendary squads in football history. That is far bigger than a mere championship.

The 72 Dolphins won a championship too, but that isn't what they are remembered for.

The " Ultimate Goal " is to be perfect , right ?

[BSmack]

ASo it appears that either he's contradicting his own comments from Monday night or that clip of his comments that I heard was played out of context and he never was considering playing Sorgi this week.

An NFL coach giving conflicting information?

Say it ain't so?????

sin

Every FFL team owner in history.

[trev]

I'm going with a toss up at this point.

1. Chargers looked flat last week.
2. 2 superb coaches in Marty and Tony.
3. Chargers tend to blow it in the spotlight.
4. Chargers do better with their back against the wall.
5. Chargers at their best CAN beat Indy.
6. Game of the week???
7. A must win for the Bolts.
8. LT LT LT

Chargers have hurt some key opposing players this year, Tony is askeert about that. Last year it came down to the wire. Both teams are better this year, but Indy has the edge. I hope I can handle this one.

[Degenerate]

Also heard an interview with Larry Czonka last night. One thing I didn't realize when talking aout the '72 Dolphins is that they had to play the AFC Title game on the road in Pittsburgh. :? If anyone has the time to research how home field was determined back then I'd be interested in reading it.

The sites of conference title games used to rotate each year, at the home fields of division winners. In 1972, the Central division winner got to host the AFC title game. I don't know when it changed to the current format.

[Felix]

Why's that?

They have a shot at becoming one of the most legendary squads in football history. That is far bigger than a mere championship.

The 72 Dolphins won a championship too, but that isn't what they are remembered for.

The " Ultimate Goal " is to be perfect , right ?

The Ultimate goal in the NFL is to win the world championship.
The 72 Dolphins are indeed known for their perfect season, yet I've never talked with anyone that considers them to be among the best teams that ever played. They were blessed with an incredibly easy schedule and a lot of luck.

I for one don't need the Colts to finish with a perfect record to know that they could mop the floor with the 72 Dolphins team....same thing with the 85 Bears ....they didn't finish perfect, but I can say with no hesitation that they too could have killed that 72 Dolphin squad.

[Guest]

I like the Dolts in this game.

After the entire nation pissed down their legs with the prediction last week this is the week that the Colts bend over and grab their ankles.

Chargers need this game badly and they are a very nice team on the rebound this week.

[orcinus]

5. Chargers at their best CAN beat Indy.

There are only a handful of teams in the league that can legitimately make that claim, trev. Unfortunately, yours isn't one of them.

Sure, Sandy Eggo can win the game this week, but it will take more than their best game to get the job done. Whether or not you choose to admit it, you're going to need help from Indy in order to get out of town with a win.

That doesn't necessarily mean Peyton will have to play like his little sister, Ellie, but he would need to make a handfull of drive-killing mistakes. A costly turnover or three wouldn't hurt, either.

That said ... it's a good tangent to the topic at hand.

Firing on all cylinders, I think the following teams could go toe-to-toe with Indy and have a good shot at winning the game.

1. Seattle - Inconsistency has always been this team's downfall, but the Squaks are built to slug it out with anyone. Soft NFC West schedule be damned, this still is a good team. Peyton's edge as a field general is balanced by Alexander's game-breaking abilities. Too bad this game can't be played merely on paper, as it would be a thing of beauty.

2. Pittsburgh - Another Jeckyl and Hyde team whose best effort would give Indy fits. While the Steelers have a defense capable of slowing the Colts' attack, the clock-chewing ground game is what would be the difference-maker in this one. If it's one game for all the marbles, give me a steady dose of Parker and The Bus controlling the clock and keeping Manning on the sidelines.

3. Carolina - The NFL's version of Rodney Dangerfield, and you'll have to see with clear eyes to believe in this one. Injuries, inconsistency and a low-key small market keep the Panthers buried and far from the scrutiny normally bestowed on Super Bowl hopefuls. Steve Smith has put together a couple impressive seasons; however, let's not forget Mushin Muhammed's breakouts from only a few years back. The common denominator through all this has been Jake Delhomme. Sure, he has 14 picks so far this season, but a closer look at those multi-pick games shows something other than simply poor quarterback play. For the most part, there was absolutely no running game. Delhomme is a poor man's Brett Favre without all the toys.

Teams that could make a game of it, but would need help from Indy in order to win ...

1. Denver/San Diego - In many ways, this is the same team. Strong running attacks, efficient quarterbacks and defenses good enough to at least pester the Indy arsenal.

2. New England - Getting healthy, but not quickly enough. A lot of the pieces and parts are still there, but this is not the same defense that gave Manning fits over the past few years. In addition to being long in the tooth, Corey Dillon now looks fat and happy with his Super Bowl ring. While the Patriots could be a dark horse team in the playoffs, I can't see them derailing the train without help.

3. Cincinnati - Like Seattle, this team matches up well with the Colts offensive attack and has the weapons to run up and down the field. That said, I don't see the defense making enough crucial stops to keep Indy points off the scoreboard when it matters most.

4. Jacksonville - A great defense and a team good enough already to give Indy fits. With Leftwich under center and the explosive version of Fred Taylor in the backfield, Jax gets to move to the front of the classroom; however, I just don''t see Garrard able to run this team up and down the field for four quarters in a huge game.

5. NY Giants - Too much depends on Eli. Like Garrard, I don't see him able to consistently move the chains in a game of this magnitude ... not just yet, anyway. Stranger things have happened though. Barber, Burress and Toomer could make this one interesting

6. Kansas City - Dominant at times, wildly pathetic at others ... it remains to be seen whether or not this match-up could even take place. The Chiefs offense is capable of making long, clock-eating drives and certainly capable of matching the Colts point for point. While the defense has taken some great strides this past season, I can't see it making the big, drive-killing stop late in the fourth quarter to steal the game. Come to think of it, I'm not sure I can even see it in that position in the first place.

[RadioFan]

5. NY Giants - Too much depends on Eli. Like Garrard, I don't see him able to consistently move the chains in a game of this magnitude ... not just yet, anyway. Stranger things have happened though. Barber, Burress and Toomer could make this one interesting

In the Superbowl?

[messy slobber] That would be the greatest matchup in the history of football! [/messy slobber]

-- ABC

[trev]

There are only a handful of teams in the league that can legitimately make that claim, trev. Unfortunately, yours isn't one of them.

Sure, Sandy Eggo can win the game this week, but it will take more than their best game to get the job done. Whether or not you choose to admit it, you're going to need help from Indy in order to get out of town with a win.

Nice "out" you have there, buddy.

Both teams playing at their highest level, mistake free, we COULD still beat Indy. As special as Peyton is, it still takes a whole team to beat another team. Isn't that why we love this game? Great teams win games because of the other teams mistakes.

I really enjoyed reading your post though.

Mvscal,
Yeah, the Colts are the best in the league and should go all the way. I'm not gonna go KCScott and turn in the towel over it.

[Felix]

Both teams playing at their highest level, mistake free, we COULD still beat Indy.

No, they couldn't....

But teams seldom play an entire game at the highest level......that might be the Blots one hope.....

[trev]

Both teams playing at their highest level, mistake free, we COULD still beat Indy.

No, they couldn't....

But teams seldom play an entire game at the highest level......that might be the Blots one hope.....

Seldom? How about never.

[orcinus]

I've seen teams play four quarters at that level, and it's a beautiful thing to watch.

As for your comment earlier, it's not an out at all, trev. When I talk about help from Indy, I'm referring to outright blown plays. Peyton letting one sail high into a safety's hands, linebackers over-pursuing to the point where a simple cutback nets a monster gain. A number of third-down false starts that turn third-and-manageable into third-and-long.

Help in the form of mental gaffes.

With our scenario, both teams firing on all cylinders, we're not dealing with mistakes by either team, only minute differences in execution that tell the difference in a four-yard gain or three-yard loss.

A back spinning out of a missed tackle to gain the extra yardage needed for a first down. A receiver pulling the ball out of the defenders hands to make a crucial catch downfield.

Teams don't have to play poorly in order to get beat but, from what I've seen this season, Indianapolis just might have to make a few mental mistakes in order to take a loss in the playoffs.

I wouldn't place them in the realm of best teams ever, mind you, but in an era of parity, they stand out from the rest of the NFL. Try and take away Peyton's receivers, and you're going to get steamrolled by James and Rhodes all afternoon. Move up a safety to help with the run, and Manning's going to pick you apart.

In order to beat Indy (without help), a team's going to need to do three things.

1) Pressure Manning without relying on the blitz
2) Contain James without safety support
3) Jam Harrison and Wayne at the line, and then cover like there's no tomorrow.

Few teams even have the personnel to accomplish a couple of these tasks, let alone for four quarters. What's scary about Dungy's plan and Manning's execution is the fact they have so many ways to beat you offensively, and don't seem to mind taking whatever path is set before them.

Beyond the lack of personnel required on either side of the ball to balance what Indy's best game will bring to the table, we also have to look at the coaches.

The Colts' game plan above is simple enough in theory, mind you, yet with all that firepower ... look what happened to the Rams a few years back.

Have you seen Dungy even come close to making that same mistake this season?

Me neither.

Have you seen Marty do the same?

Hmmmmm ...

Martyball isn't just a clever quip, mind you.

Between the two of them, Schottenheimer and Martz make one hell of a coach.

Schottenmartz.

Nice ring, don't you think?

[Tiny]

Orc,

That was a nice, well thought out post.

Having watched the Colts all year, I have watched them do just that and been frustrated as a motherfucker, but it still gets the job done. I like to see Edge pound them down, and wear the defense out by the end of the 3rd quarter, almost as much as the deep threat. Believe it or not, I sometimes get almost frustrated with Manning’s patience. He's totally rethought his game plan this year, knowing that nobody is gonna give him the long deep routes....so he sits back, and picks teams apart with the underneath routes. This again, is something that James excels at, as well as Rhodes. As far as a back coming out into the flats for a safety valve, I don't know that we really loose anything with Rhodes over Edge. Dude's got good hands.

[orcinus]

Agreed, Tiny.

After watching Manning look downright selfish at times last year throwing touchdown passes from the one late in the game, I can only imagine the horror Colt Fan must have been going through the first few weeks of the season.

Remember when everyone was saying Peyton had been Dungified?

Thing is, I think he'd be more than happy to hand the ball off fifty times and head for the showers, if it meant the Colts would win.

Teams like that are simply fun to watch (love my Sunday Ticket, I do). I enjoy watching the Colts carve through opponents each week almost as much as I enjoy rooting for those same opponents to step up and hang a blemish on that record.

Except for Sandy Eggo, of course.

I hope they get absolutely fisted this weekend.

[trev]

Oh, besides dumb crucial mistakes, I'll take Marty over Martz. But thanks for that laugh. Dungy will be tested this weekend. He hasn't played the grueling schedule Marty has, so we'll see. I hope we get to Manning a lot just to scare Tony silly. Can't believe no one is giving the Chargers a chance in this. That seems to be the way they like it though, especially on the road. Still a toss up for me.

[poptart]

RACK mvscal in this thread.

I agree with nearly all that he has posted.

Dungy has ALREADY undermined his team's chances just in the way he is TALKING about the situation.

What a fool.

I have NO problem saying right now that the Colts will not win the Super Bowl this year.

You can thank your coach, Clot fan.

[Tiny]

Easy Pop,

Misinformed -- yes. That's kinda the name of the game isn't it; to not tip your hand before you even step out onto the field?

Undermined -- I don't think so. You, (and I as well), have no freaking idea what Dungy has told this team behind closed doors. Some coaches think it's a good thing, if their opponent doesn't know how to gameplan the week, because they aren't sure who they'll be facing.

I think your rush to judgment is a little premature in this case. You think we ought to let them play out the rest of the season, and maybe see what happens???

[Felix]

From everything I've read today, it sounds like they have no intention of playing it safe.....

we'll see what happens.....

[poptart]

You think we ought to let them play out the rest of the season, and maybe see what happens???

Oh yeah, they're gonna play out the rest of the season.

I'm just giving you my take.

Tony Dungy does not impress me much at all.

[Tiny]

Pop,

I'll give you that....actually, I think I'm one of the LAST Colt fans to warm up to Tony. His "I can build a great defense with speed" mantra has been a little suspect by me for several years. Speedy players still need to be able to tackle in the open field, once they catch the ballcarrier. I don't totally buy it even yet; although, with Mike Doss and Bob Sanders hitting like they do, I'm starting to sway a little.
We don't yet have a great defense either, they just haven't been exposed really. It's leaps & bounds better than in years past, but still is succeptable to great runners/O-lines.

Frankly, I think the defense is only NOW acceptable/respectable. To be good, or even someday great, they're gonna need at least 3-4 good draft choices, or free agents to solidify the team. And they had all better be great tacklers, or it won't mean shit.