Hypothetical draft question

[Raydah James]

Only if its to hold out so he can QB for the Silver and Black.

:wink:

[BSmack]

Well, since this here forum has slowed down SIGNIFICANTLY, I figured that I'd pose the following question:

If Matt Leinart gets picked by the New Orleans Saints with the 2nd overall pick in the NFL Draft in April, should he or SHOULDN'T HE pull a "John Elway" and tell the Saints that he will NEVER sign a contract with them?

Does he play baseball?

Eli Manning got lucky that someone was willing to play ball and trade for him. I'm not so sure that Lienart would be so lucky. What he should do is sign a 3 year deal with the Saints and take out a very large insurance policy.

[Joe in PB]

Who gives a fuck about Kyle Boller II?

Vince Young is the guy I'd be targeting if I needed a QB.

If he wasn't there I'd go in another direction.

[Joe in PB]

I'm not saying Young is going to be good right away.

But he's composed in the pocket, something that a few starters in the league aren't.

He reminds me of Culpepper, and I wouldn't be surprised at all if he's a much better QB than Leinart....aka Kyle Boller II within a few years.

Leinart just never impressed me with his lack of accuracy despite having a team head and shoulders better than the rest of the NCAA for much of his college career.

Carson Palmer he isn't.

[BSmack]

He reminds me of Culpepper.

If by "reminds you of Culpepper" you mean prone to suck out loud when deprived of Randy Moss, you are spot on.

[Joe in PB]

I'd say last season Culpepper missed former OC Scott Lenihan as much as he missed Moss.

[Dumbass]

Who gives a fuck about Kyle Boller II?

Vince Young is the guy I'd be targeting if I needed a QB.

If he wasn't there I'd go in another direction.

No fucking shit. After seeing what Carson has done and say what Vick has done, why would you think this? Young doesn't have the arm Vick has and Leinart looked better from start to finsih than Carson did. Kyle Boller II? Rather absurd, Leinart shredded even top defenses in college. A normally solid Joe is off his rocker on this perception but we'll see. Vince Young? Yea, when I see it I'll believe it. He won't be winning a playoff game for a long long time, if he even does.

How many times did you actually watch Matt play? I don't see how you could have this opinion. I mean even against Texas, as far as a QB that can run a complete offense, he out performed Young. That is why I shake my head when I hear how great Young was as a QB in The Rose Bowl when he wasn't picking apart SC like Matt was Texas as an NFL QB needs to. It was a great performance by a back, period.

[Dumbass]

If Matt Leinart gets picked by the Saints NO WAY IN HELL should he even consider signing with that abortion of a football team. They have bad salary cap issues, way too many guys on that team that don't give a FUCK about anybody other than themselves ('sup, Joe Horn), and exactly who are they going to play for?

Even though the Superdome is ALLEGEDLY going to be ready in time for the 2006 season, that doesn't mean that there will be PEOPLE filling that joint to watch them. The whole Saints deal just isn't conducive to winning at this point, and no matter what QB gets drafted to play there, he will be playing in an impossible situation.

Just sayin'.

You can not fairly judge the talent of The Saints under Haslett. Matt could do much much worse for a top pick QB. The worst thing is the division they are in.

[Dumbass]

I really don't see that changing at all...ever.One game does not make a career.

mvscal said it first. I will 2nd it.

Young has a shitload to prove and is a greater risk than say a Willis McGahee. There is no reason to go apeshit over him for running SC's slowest offense over these past few yeas and Michigan (previous Rose Bowl) into the dirt. I seem to remember Leinart having Michigan quite under control himself not to mention the other top defenses that came his way...many of which were not at USC. Leinart has shown poise from start to finsih in a high pressure atmosphere carrying a trememndous win streak and target on the team's back. Sorry but any GM taking Young over Leinart is going to have a lot to answer for in 3 years.

[Dumbass]

...with his lack of accuracy despite having a team head and shoulders better than the rest of the NCAA for much of his college career.

Carson Palmer he isn't.

Palmer finished his senior year with 4-5 solid games. Seems like with Carson and Young you're not looking at the complete overall picture.

I watched just about every snap of these QB's and am just not seeing the same overal picture.

[Joe in PB]

I watched just about every snap of these QB's and am just not seeing the same overal picture.

Not surprising coming from a guy who couldn't see that Roethlisberger had indeed scored a TD from the replay or Bri's freeze frame.

Hey I just stated my opinion, maybe I'm wrong, it wouldn't be the first time. But I'm not too high on Bush or Leinart. Bush because I don't think he'll be an every down back & Matt because of a lack of accuracy.

On the other hand you're objectivity since your nic change "dumbass"......hasn't been your best.

Lets get this down offically now.

1. Big Ben didn't score a TD and Pittsburgh needed the refs to win the Super Bowl.

2. Reggie Bush is far and away the #1 talent and top pick in this years NFL draft.

3. Matt Leinart will be a much better pro than Carson Palmer.

Any other self professed revelations?

[poptart]

Vince Young hasn't at all shown that he can throw a deep ball.

He'll have tremendous scrambling ability at the NFL level, and might possibly possess some impressive 'intangibles', but without being able to launch a deep ball I think he'll have some problems.

Another year of college ball would help him, but the problem is that if he went back to Texas he'd spend the whole year doing just what he did this past year.......running, and not honestly working on develping his passing skills like they need to be developed.

He's far from a sure thing as a good NFL QB, IMO.


To Paul's question, yes, Lienart should play for the Saints if drafted by them.

Show you're a stud and make 'em a winner.

[WhatsMyName]

I'm not saying Young is going to be good right away.

But he's composed in the pocket, something that a few starters in the league aren't.

He reminds me of Culpepper, and I wouldn't be surprised at all if he's a much better QB than Leinart....aka Kyle Boller II within a few years.

Not to rain on your parade here, but Boller and Leinart have almost nothing in common except for being former Pac 10 QBs.

Boller was a combine workout warrior with no accuracy and a Tedford protege that only read half the field in his final year of college, which by the way was his only good year in his entire college career. Leinart was playing at a Heisman level for two years, is more accurate, has less of a rocket arm than Kyle "throw through the uprights from the 50 yard line" Boller and has much better pocket presence.

If anything, Jay Cutler is the next Boller. Dude comes out of nowhere, has a few good Senior Bowl practices and a so-so game and is suddenly in the Leinart/Young league? Give me a fucking break.

[Joe in PB]

Not to rain on your parade here, but Boller and Leinart have almost nothing in common except for being former Pac 10 QBs.

Boller was a combine workout warrior with no accuracy....

Watch Boller's play in the NFL even now and it's easy to say he isn't very accurate.

Seeing Leinart miss wide open receiver's in PAC 10 play is the reason I compare the two.

Save the Heisman fluff, it has virtually no meaning in terms of the NFL.

[WhatsMyName]

Not to rain on your parade here, but Boller and Leinart have almost nothing in common except for being former Pac 10 QBs.

Boller was a combine workout warrior with no accuracy....

Watch Boller's play in the NFL even now and it's easy to say he isn't very accurate.

Agreed.

Seeing Leinart miss wide open receiver's in PAC 10 play is the reason I compare the two.

It's a bad comparison.

Proof:
Leinart had a 63, 65 and 65% completion percentage in 3 years at college
Boller had a 38, 46, 49 and 53% completion percentage in 4 years of college

So to argue Leinart's accuracy is anywhere as terrible as Boller's is a non-starter.

Save the Heisman fluff, it has virtually no meaning in terms of the NFL.

Well, his steady track record of accuracy and production in a pro styled offense already makes him a far superior prospect to Boller, Heisman fluff or not. It doesn't guarantee anything, but I wouldn't even THINK to compare Leinart to Boller, since their careers were completely different in so many ways.

[Cicero]

Leinart is going to be the better QB out of Young and Cutler. Comparing him to Boller is just flat out wrong. Boller was a guy who couldnt even complete 50% of his passes and he had a good coach and a good system. He blew the dorrs off at the Combine and supposed genius Billitch drafted him. Boller is awful. Leinart on the other hand grew up in Chow's system, played in tons of big games and played at a high level for 3 years. I think Leinart is going to have a very good career comparable to a Jim Kelly or Troy Aikman.

[WhatsMyName]

Leinart is going to be the better QB out of Young and Cutler.

I agree. Vince Young was nails in the Rose Bowl but for my money, I want a pocket passer who makes good decisions and doesn't try to take on the team's running back duties. I can't think of a single running QB in NFL history that has won a Super Bowl, and that includes Steve Young who was a passer first and foremost. I don't trust the superathlete QB at the NFL level.

[Killian]

Leinart is not going to have a very good NFL career, at least not the first 4 years or so. He'll get drafted low, play on a team with a patch work offensive line and not have very many weapons to work with. His lack of arm strength and mobility (at the NFL level) will kill him. If he's lucky, he can have Chad Pennington success. I don't see him coming anywhere near Kelly or Aikman levels.

[Dumbass]

Not surprising coming from a guy who couldn't see that Roethlisberger had indeed scored a TD from the replay or Bri's freeze frame.

Oh so the wrist band is part of the ball?
Please. Next?

I think most people here agreeed with that one. The replay was inconclusive.

Wow dude, you're certainly swinging in the other direction now.
I also do not think I said ANY of those things in the context of each argument. I think I have more or less posed a question back to all those that are trying to discredit their talents.

I have one guy telling me that a guy I would see bust another first down from 1st and 10 regularly and take down a Heisman is not worthy of a top 5 pick (never said he must be #1 making mention of White's capabilities and he is not a QB Heisman winner where the game can be much different as opposed to a running back's adaptation) Then you saying Leinart is inaccurate compared to a guy who's throwing deficiencies are well known. Then you further insult it by stating this guy is Kyle Boller II? Please.

You can have your opinion as I but when we post them, they are open to criticism.

[Roofer]

As a diehard Trojan fan, I've always said that I didn't think Leinart will have the success that Palmer has had. Again, watching these guys from high school on, Palmer always had that NFL feel/look about him. Leinart always seemed to be the benificiary of a "good system" (going back to his days at Mater Dei). He's a gamer and has a huge heart and huge stones, but I think he'll fall short on the talent side of things. His best bet would to somehow fall to the Titans and get back to Norm Chow. That would shorten his learning curve considerably and may be the key in proving my doubts wrong. I want to see him succeed, just like Reggie, Lindale and the rest of the Trojans. I just have a hunch he'll be mediocre at best. Hope I'm wrong about that.

[Dumbass]

I would not be surprised if both end up sucking balls because the % is in our favor for thinking that way. My point is just looking at what they have now that the assumptions should be fairly clear (and you should all think like me ) and that Matt has more potential. I am honestly stunned at how great Carson has looked but am also not surprised that Marvin Lewis has the whole thing working. Carson came into a pretty damn good situation for being drafted by Cinci. I realize Carson and the entire SC team had to go through the developmental period of Norm's offense and maybe that is why I did not give Carson the credit he deserved. I honestly thought he would be a Heisman bust so I am not homering. Heck he vaulted into the Heisman after beating The Irish. I may be using Carson's early success and what I have seen from Matt to sway my opinion sure, but I really do not know what else I am suppose to go off of. The fact that Matt went to Mater Dei and then to SC and did excellent in both actually is what makes me feel this way. Yea, he came out of excellent football programs in high school and college but he still had to make it work. I don't think just anyone can do that and can only assume that he will take on the next level with the same sucess.

How many current starting QBs are top 10 draft picks much less first rounders? I don't believe any QB is a lock to succeed in the NFL. I actually think it is pretty easy for either side to say the other will suck because there's a pretty damn good chance of it.

[WhatsMyName]

Perhaps the most overlooked aspect of a pro quarterback prospect.



Everybody raves about a QB's strong arm, quickness and all their combine measurables, yet they have no idea if he can read a defense.

[Shoalzie]

I don't think Leinart will ask for a trade but personally, I think he'd be perfect in Tennessee since Norm Chow is the offensive coordinator there. Leinart seems to be more of a system QB than Young. Young would be perfect for New Orleans because of the talent at the skill positions right now and it would be a smooth transition for this team to go from Aaron Brooks to Vince Young given their similar skill sets. I think Young will be a better QB than Brooks ever was though.

[T REX]

Who gives a fuck about Kyle Boller II?

Vince Young is the guy I'd be targeting if I needed a QB.

If he wasn't there I'd go in another direction.

I don't think Boller ever came close to the completion percentages that Leinert has(and I am not a big USC fan) or the stats either.