Need Help: Chipping Yips

indyfrisco · Post by **indyfrisco** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 7:38 pm

Was listening to ESPN Radio Saturday morning. Hank Haney’s “On the range” was on, and I was geeked because they were going to talk about the “yips” in the swing, chipping and putting. I have the yips like you wouldn’t imagine with the chipping game, hence all the cooning I do.

So, Hank goes into how to solve the yips on the swing and then on putting. When asked about the chipping yips, he just laughed and said “Basically, if you have the yips in chipping, my best advice is putt it if you can.” I wanted to rip his face off and shit down his piehole. I was sitting in my car in the garage for 10 minutes waiting on his chipping yips tip and he gives me that shit.

So…any advice from you guys? I was a 2 handicap until 9 years ago when I began getting the yips chipping. If I miss the green and do nothave a perfect lofty lie, I will undoubtedly chili-dip or coon. I know it is my left arm that has the yips because on the practice green, I will swing with just the right arm and can make good contact most of the time.

I’ve tried loosening my grip with the left hand to make the swing mostly y right arm and that doesn’t work. I’ve tried putting the ball in the back of my stance, forward press and using a putting/bump and run motion to try to keep steady. No dice. I don’t know what to do. I’m shooting in the mid-80s now. Actually shot 81 this past weekend, but that included 3 triple bogeys…each one had 3 chips to get on the green.

indyfrisco · Post by **indyfrisco** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 7:45 pm

I've also tried closing my eyes when I chip and this amazingly is the best way I can chip. Of course, THAT is not the answer.

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 11:41 pm

In the little bits I've played lately, my short game has been $$$$$.

There's just been a few unfortunate series of events leading to the point where I get to show off my stellar short game.

It's been kinda weird. That sucker comes and goes. But, like with I'm sure most of you here, it's not like that booyah short game ever shows up on the same day that my long-irons come to the party. Can't have it both ways, you know.

I think I've made the most strides in my short, greenside chips when I focus on making sure I have no movement at all except for upper-body rotation. I've heard people either sing the praises of this, or say it's the worst way to chip EVAR, but everyone seems to have an opinion. I pretty much lock my elbows and wrists, with my wrists cocked forward(wayyyy out ahead of the ball). Most shots are hit thin, some are hit with the blade -- either way, as long as I have the speed dialed in, I don't really care so much about loft and trajectory, since it still ends up in about the same place, depending on how far up or down it is, and depending how soft the greens are. But I've found if I make it a habit to just freaking lock everything up solid, I ususally don't miss my aim by much, the only question is distance.

I'm not sure what your problem is, and even if we were face to face, trust me -- I'm not the guy you want to be taking advice from. I'm just saying that eliminating as much of the different parts of the swing as possible makes it a lot easier to focus on just making contact.

All I can say is that reducing the number of moving body parts works for me. Well, as much as anything "works" for me on the course.

I feel your pain, though. Right now, once again, me and my driver are having a little tiff. We've had falling outs in the past. I maybe just need to threaten to replace it, and I'm sure it will forgive me for whatever it was I did to it to get it so pissed off at me.

Qbert · Post by **Qbert** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 5:47 am

Indy?

Nickent Genex Hybrids have more than one use...

Hybrid + putting stroke = no Scullies across the Green.

jus'sayin.

i would need to SEE what you are doing before i could offer more than that.

a guess would be though...you're in a hurry to "hit" the ball and you lunge towards the target....instead of relaxing and striking your contact spot.

remedy: wrap band-aid around right forefinger, inhale from your left ear and exhale from your right eye just before impact...all this while wearing fishnet stockings.

your Yips are Cured.

where can i send you your Nine bucks?

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 5:12 pm

Qbert wrote:all this while wearing fishnet stockings.

Helped my game.

Qbert · Post by **Qbert** » Wed Mar 08, 2006 5:54 am

Dinsdale wrote:
Qbert wrote:all this while wearing fishnet stockings.
Helped my game.

of course it helped your game....nobody noticed your Stash concealed within the fishnets...

WolverineSteve · Post by **WolverineSteve** » Sat Mar 25, 2006 12:39 am

Indy,

You're a far better golfer than me so I hesitate to offer you advice. That being said, I concurr with part of what Dins said. Whenever I start to spray the ball I scale my swing down to the basic elements. Move as little as possible. Head down easy swing, after a few solid practice strokes it's all visualization for me. It's all in your melon dude. If you were a 2 you can chip like a mutha.

Now if you can straigten out my drive it would be appreciated.

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 6:14 pm

WolverineSteve wrote:I concurr with part of what Dins said.

If you saw my wedge work yesterday, you wouldn't be concurring with SHIT I had to say about chipping.

Jeebus.

And up until now, it's been the only thing saving me from complete triple-digit humiliation.

Funny thing, though -- I was MONEY on superfast downhill chips, but couldn't put the basic flat no-brainers in the same freaking area code as the cup.

I'm sure I'm speaking for many of us when I say "GRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!"

If my long irons and short irons would ever show up on the same day, I'd be dangerous.

Qbert · Post by **Qbert** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:47 am

ummm Hmmm....not inhaling through the left ear and breathing out of the right eye....

shoulda broke 90 and yet, pushed 100.

ummm Hmmm....

c'mon!!!!!!

non-believer!

chipping is FEEL....not manipulation or a particualr movement.

its a technique developed with practice.

RELAX while you practice...feel like your rolling or underhand tossing the ball towards the hole.

get "whatever" it is OUT of your Head...by doing "anything"...like exhaling out of your right eye...and RELAX.

indyfrisco · Post by **indyfrisco** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 1:25 pm

My biggest problem is I do not trust the loft of the wedge. Plain and simple. I always do the little dip trying to "scoop" the ball into the air. That's what is so frustrating. I know exactly what I am doing wrong but have not been able to get my muscle memory to make any change whatsoever.

My practice swings are perfect usually. It's when I step up to the ball, it's like getting laid for the first time...do nothing right and totally fuck it up.

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:24 pm

Qbert wrote: chipping is FEEL....not manipulation or a particualr movement.

Probably the smartest thing I've ever read here.

When I'm chipping from greenside(I assume that's what we're talking about, since for us weekend warriors, greenside chips = total score...period....I wish I hit every green), I look at it, and decide if I want any loft, or to run it. Thjat decision is made before I stand over the ball. And I take one VERY fast practice swing, then hit the ball. Might not work for everyone, but I find if I don't linger over chips, it puts it in the hands of my instincts, rather than my thoughts...which have never got me very far. You know how to do it -- you're just talking yourself out of it.

Sounds like you're not hitting the ball on the downswing. Very few shots in golf end very well if you don't catch it on the downswing. Hell, if it's a close-in chip, I usually try and whack it with the blade of my sandwedge. Doesn't take much carry to run it up on the green.

I feel your pain, though. Like I said, chipping is about the only part of my game that's working right now. My putter is its usual roller-coaster ride.

Derron · Post by **Derron** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 1:24 am

I always do the little dip trying to "scoop" the ball into the air. That's what is so frustrating. I know exactly what I am doing wrong but have not been able to get my muscle memory to make any change whatsoever.

When you do that dip, you always get your knees way in front of the ball, and usually stub the fucking wedge in short of hitting the ball and get an excellent chip of 2 or 3 inches.

I try to come in smooth and slow and almost lift the ball and try and roll it off the blade. Works sometimes and sometimes not.

PSUFAN · Post by **PSUFAN** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 3:58 pm

I don't give a fuck about golf, but this thread is a good read.

Qbert · Post by **Qbert** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 4:19 am

Derron wrote: When you do that dip, you always get your knees way in front of the ball, and usually stub the fucking wedge in short of hitting the ball and get an excellent chip of 2 or 3 inches.

I try to come in smooth and slow and almost lift the ball and try and roll it off the blade. Works sometimes and sometimes not.

i guess the visualization of this is "Sliding" the club under the ball...using a little wrist action at impact.

picture this

we have a hitting bay in our store thats probably 20' deep...the Frame of our hitting cage is about 14' deep. (so, you figure that our range mat lines up with the end of the Frame.)

my boy Carp takes this wedge with a well rounded leading edge and repeatedly pops balls "Straight UP" on Top of the Cage---->off of a hitting mat that's as firm as a Motel 6 mattress.

granted....that's sliding the club under the ball plus a lot of clubhead speed. but, he took the time to "work at it" and "do it."

best i could ever do was to pop the ball straight up and catch it; but, you get the picture.

practice, confidence and feel.

have FUN with it.

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 4:59 pm

In my non-professional opinion, I gotta go with Wolverine Steve. If at any point, you were a 2, it ain't like you don't know how to chip a freaking ball. I'm guessing that somewhere deep in that brain, you're pretty freaking good at it. You just need to figure out a way to shut off your brain.

Maybe try doing your practice swing a long way away from the ball, then just walk up and hit it?

I feel your pain, though. Definitely.

Derron · Post by **Derron** » Mon Apr 03, 2006 8:50 pm

an 8 iron for something a little closer,

I do this quite a bit too...a pro at Pebble beach showed me that one day, and it helps a lot. Keeps the chip a bit lower and predictable.

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Mon Apr 03, 2006 9:00 pm

I don't do the 8I chip thing. For myself, I'd just as soon put my wrists farther ahead of the ball to control the loft. If it's on the fringe, I'll even blade my 55 degree.

But, I also play with a couple of guys who are money chipping with the 8, so I certainly can't say anything bad about the technique. I just prefer using my SW for all of that stuff.

Wasn't the 8I chip originally a Bobby Jones thing? Yeah, he's better than me too, so it must be a good technique.

Did I recently say my short game had been money lately? After yesterday at Eastmoreland, I take that overly-cocky statement back.

Shit. Should have just chipped with my freaking driver -- would have ended up about the same distance from the hole. Hell, I could have held the driver upside-down, and had similar results.

Ang · Post by **Ang** » Mon Apr 10, 2006 6:23 am

You are thinking too much! I played yesterday after not playing for a couple of years, and hit the ball great, and pitched up great if I didn't think about it.

I hate all this stuff about shift this so many degrees and then hold your lip this way and then look at how the grass on the tee is going before you even pitch up. Just f-ing get a swing you like, look at the distance and the loft you need and do it, with one club if you are in pitching range.

I worked for 4 years with Jack Daray Jr, a great man and a wonderful student and teacher of golf. He looked at my swing at least once a month if not more and told me...anyone can play wonderful golf with about 3 swings. One for the tee shot, one for the fairway shots, and one to pitch up. You just adjust them for distance and slope and there ya go.

I still play with a set of woods I bought from him for a fraction of what they were worth, Powerbuilt Citation persimmon woods. I hit off the tee with a 2 wood because I don't play enough to be comfy with my 1.

Yesterday, a guy I teach with who is a turf professor, gave me a hard time about them. Told our partners for the round that he knew I wouldn't be bragging about it or anything, but that I had bought my woods from Ben Hogan when he was just a teenager :)

I had to laugh. Jack would love that! I stil get some yards out of them when I hit them well....it's just hitting them well that is the problem!

But I felt it yesterday. Same thing...keep the same swing and just do it, and it goes. If I get 210 or so on a drive swinging easy I'm good...I'm a girl and not a young one. I got about 200 on a well hit 5 wood off the fairway...that was the prettiest shot all day long for me...and same swing. Thing is...mine are straight down the fairway. I can't count the times I have been playing with big hitters who are cursing me when they hit 275 and can't find their balls because they are in the shrubs or hit a house.

I think people think too much. It's not that complicated. Put the ball in front of you and hit it. Pitching is more complicated but you can have the same swing and just adjust loft and distance by backswing and part swing and where the ball is in between your feet. It's not like you have to angle or bite your lip or worry...it's just 100% or 20%. Sounds easy? :) Wish I really figured it out that much!

All joking aside, I remembered yesterday why I love to golf. It's a challenge, and it's a challenge in a beautiful spot. Your challenge is to not think...which most of us do alot when we aren't golfing...and just hit the ball and make it go where you want it to. The simplicity of it all is intoxicating.

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Mon Apr 10, 2006 5:49 pm

Wow. What a great post, Ang.

And as far as not playing for two years and coming out and slapping it straight -- fuck you.

Although, snuck out for 9 after the Masters (WAR Left Coast), managed to make it through 6 or 7 before the downpour started.

And for the first time (or close to it) in a long time, nothing in any past of my body made a loud "POP," "CRACK," or "SNAP!"

And oddly enough, I didn't put up the insanely high scores I had been accustomed to (I did manage to get one triple in there...just to uphold tradition, I guess). Funny how that works....

Man, if I could get anothet round or two in without something misfiring in the body, I might be getting somewhere.

indyfrisco · Post by **indyfrisco** » Mon Apr 10, 2006 6:34 pm

Got 18 in yesterday. Not 1 single coon or chili dip. Of course, I was putting like shit, but our greens have just been aerated. Shot an 89 with 12 3 putts. Never took me more than one chip to get on a green.

I actually even had someone say to me yesterday after a couple chips "Nice touch, Frisco". I said I hadn't heard that in damn near 10 years. My pro has been working with me. he saw me chipping and actually cringed.

I'm gettin' there...

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Mon Apr 10, 2006 8:24 pm

IndyFrisco wrote:Shot an 89 with 12 3 putts.

You know, if you think about it, that's an outstanding score with 12 3 putts. You were obviously keeping it in the short stuff yesterday.

I was +5 after 3 yesterday. Fairly easy holes, too. Woke up on #4, and only added two more after that, and once the rain started, putting became pretty much impossible, otherwise I'm confident it would have been lower.

I think you and I are feeling similar right now....I know I feel like I'm in the process of winning a battle right now. Lately, I've been able to get through a few holes before some part of my spine started grinding, then all of a sudden freom that point on, I would be a very consistant triple bogey golfer. One triple on the card is painful, tossing them up all day long is heartbreaking. My body did what I told it, and BOOM...scores became reasonable again. I was pretty happy about it. I'm no low-handicapper, but going out and not breaking 100 is pretty freaking annoying. If my bod continues to cooperate, which is coinciding with the onset of the "low score" season, it will make me a happy man. And I'll stop losing all of my quarters to my friends, so it will be a finacial boon, too.

RACK your return to normalcy, Frisco.

Qbert · Post by **Qbert** » Tue Apr 11, 2006 5:07 am

Great Post Ang!

Ang wrote:You are thinking too much! I played yesterday after not playing for a couple of years, and hit the ball great, and pitched up great if I didn't think about it.

I hate all this stuff about shift this so many degrees and then hold your lip this way and then look at how the grass on the tee is going before you even pitch up. Just f-ing get a swing you like, look at the distance and the loft you need and do it, with one club if you are in pitching range.

I worked for 4 years with Jack Daray Jr, a great man and a wonderful student and teacher of golf. He looked at my swing at least once a month if not more and told me...anyone can play wonderful golf with about 3 swings. One for the tee shot, one for the fairway shots, and one to pitch up. You just adjust them for distance and slope and there ya go.

I think people think too much. It's not that complicated. Put the ball in front of you and hit it. Pitching is more complicated but you can have the same swing and just adjust loft and distance by backswing and part swing and where the ball is in between your feet. It's not like you have to angle or bite your lip or worry...it's just 100% or 20%. Sounds easy? :) Wish I really figured it out that much!

All joking aside, I remembered yesterday why I love to golf. It's a challenge, and it's a challenge in a beautiful spot. Your challenge is to not think...which most of us do alot when we aren't golfing...and just hit the ball and make it go where you want it to. The simplicity of it all is intoxicating.

i can see that you took a shot at my posts.

that's fine.

however, our points are the SAME.

--->get your HEAD OUT of the SHOT!

....and just Do IT.

it IS fairly simple.

now if we could've all Screamed in unision to Couples on Sunday that he needed to 'make a backswing' with his Putter???

all would be 'right' with the World.

rack Hefty.

RACK Indy's improved confidence!

next round will be 81-82.

Twelve 3 putts.....ouch!

Dins...you'll get there too.

better Golf through Chemistry!

indyfrisco · Post by **indyfrisco** » Tue Apr 11, 2006 1:28 pm

It is funny...89 is my worst score of the year so far yet I was happier after that round than I have been on any other round. Even 3 weeks ago when I shot 81 in 45 degree windy weather, I was pissed because, had I chipped better, I would have been at +3 or +4.

Like Q said, my confidence is back. I haven't been confident in my chipping in almost 10 years. Luckily, just in time. Our Ice Breaker tourney is next weekend. My GHIN handicap is at 11.5 even though I am really about a 14 now. However, if I keep chipping like I did this weekend, I will be a 7/8 by summer's end.

indyfrisco · Post by **indyfrisco** » Tue Apr 11, 2006 1:37 pm

Oh, and Q, we have a couple holes where there is a severe slope down to the green from the fairway. The green is lightning fast from front to back on both. #1 has a nice little dropoff behind it and #3 is just really slopey. When I lie 1 (good drive) or 2 (bad approach) with a 50 yard pitch to go, I have been stressing on these.

This weekend, two great bump and runs with the 20* Nickent Hybrid got me dancing. Of course, as mentioned above, I 3 putted both.

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Tue Apr 11, 2006 5:26 pm

If you're hitting the other clubs like that, the putting will come.

And you know it. Never seen you play obviously, but if you're getting those kinds of scores, don't even tell me that you don't knopw a thing or two about putting.

Your putting will come around, and those threeputts will become rare. And my bet is on sooner, rather than later. Once one breakthrough comes along to return you to form, it seems like the others come in rapid succession.

I think I'm right at that point myself. Noiw, when I stick my eyeball on the back of the ball, the clubface is actually hitting it. That was getting to be kind of a random event for a while there, but now...it's almost going the direction I aim it.

RACK us, my friend, for getting our shit together at just the right time of year.

Although, I dunno...."I shoot low 80's, but I can't chip for crap" was sounding like a trolljob for a while there."

While it doesn't matter in the Big Picture, knowing that you're not going to stink up the course next time out kinda brightens up each and every day. I kinda understand how you're feeling.

indyfrisco · Post by **indyfrisco** » Tue Apr 11, 2006 7:11 pm

Dins,

I don't shoot low 80's regularly. I do tend to hit a lot of greens due to being able to drive the ball a long way leaving me with short approaches. The greens I play on are always in great shape during the golf season, but they are and absolute BITCH to read. My in-laws that I play with all the time have played this course for 50 years and they can read them. I've played it for 2 years. I'm just a rook on these babies.

Like I said, I'm about a 14. I do hit the occasional round in the 70s. I have the tendency to completely abandon the "flops" and just bump and run when my chipping just isn't working at all that day. Unfortunately, the elevated greens and tucked pins we have aren't easily "bump and runable".

I am going to Hilton Head in June for my yearly week of golf in damn near golf paradise. On those courses, I am EXTREMELY happy if I break 90. Tight fairways lined with pine trees and houses and water and sand. OB left and right damn near every hole. The couses aren't that long, but they are tight. Last year was my first year with the Nickent hybrids in Hilton Head. My driver barely got out of my bag and I scored pretty well for once. 2 rounds in the 80s (89 and 86) made my trip. 3 rounds in the 90s with nothing in the 3 digits for the whole trip.

indyfrisco · Post by **indyfrisco** » Tue Apr 11, 2006 7:26 pm

For more fodder…

This is true too. No trolljob.

The chipping yips that I have acquired were not the only yips I have. I have the putting yips too. I was using a Wilson 8816 blade style putter. 5 years ago, I turned around and started using the back of the blade, with my right-handed grip, and started putting left handed with my right handed putter. Lining the ball up was a challenge at first, but I wasn’t yipping.

I was putting pretty damn good like this so I bought a left handed Odyssey blade putter. I have been putting left handed (cross handed grip) for 5 years now and doing it rather well while I play right handed with the rest of my game. I have no doubt that if I had a left handed wedge that I could probably start chipping left handed as well. However, rules of golf state that you can only have one kind of club in your bag, left handed or right handed. The putter can be either. Lots of lefties putt right handed. Not many righties putt left handed.

I now have an Odyssey two ball putter that I bought over Christmas. Like I said before, our greens were recently aerated. I attribute any of those 12 3-putts to the greens just being in shit shape right now. In two weeks, I anticipate my putting will be much better due to the greens coming in more.

I don't troll about golf, man. This game is my 2nd favorite hobby. Only thing that beats 18 holes of golf is 18 rounds in the sack with the Mrs...although the course at home is usually only open for 4 or 5 rounds before it gets worn out for the day. ;)

Qbert · Post by **Qbert** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 4:41 am

great on the Hybrids Indy!

as for those 3 putts...i ThinK? i see your Issue right away.

are you now missing with your Face Balanced Putter to the RIGHT?

changing from a putter (blade) that releases EASILY due to its weighting....and going to a face balanced 2-ball Putter?

just remember...a face balanced putter won't Move unless your stroke moves it.

it swings like a grandfather clock pendulum.

don't manipulate the new putter in the stroke.

its BACK and straight through.

Practice Green with the new Flat Stick....picture the pendulum. (and have FUN!)

indyfrisco · Post by **indyfrisco** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 1:41 pm

I was missing all over the place witht he new two-ball. My lag putts are what was kicking my ass this weekend. Like I said though, I attribute a lot of my missed short putts to aerated greens. My stroke actually felt good and I was burning up the lips inside of 10 feet. It's just the 50 foot putt that I leave 8 feet short that was hurting me...lots.

Ken · Post by **Ken** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 5:51 pm

IndyFrisco wrote:I always do the little dip trying to "scoop" the ball into the air.

A once 2 handicapper who now 'scoops'? Ouch. How far you have fallen.
You clearly know this is not the right way to make contact and you can't get yourself to do it during a round, but you can in practice. Sounds like a psychological barrier to me.

indyfrisco · Post by **indyfrisco** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 6:32 pm

My GHIN handicap is a 12.6 right now. I have a feeling it will be dropping though.

PLayed 9 yesterday after work in monsoon weather. The chipping was excellent (for my standards).

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 6:42 pm

Ken wrote: A once 2 handicapper who now 'scoops'? Ouch.

Abso-freaking-lutely.

You can't tell me a former 2 don't know how to chip a ball....very well, matter of fact.

I've been "over-thinking" stuff myself lately. I've found that "doing my thinking" well-away from the ball, and walking up and whacking it takes the "over-thinking" thing out of the game, but brings other issues into play.

But I refuse to believe that anyone who posts in this forum can't chip a ball very close to the hole on a pretty regular basis...these people go out of their way to post in a golf forum, for goodness sake...don't even try and tell me you guys are a bunch of noobs.

Which kind of reinforces the "psychological" angle, in my mind.

indyfrisco · Post by **indyfrisco** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 6:45 pm

Oh, I fully believe it is psycological. Even though I have read articles saying it isn't, I do believe it is. I sit there and do 2 practice swings perfectly most every time and then when I address the ball I just fucking lose it like Jim when he touched Nadia for the first time sans the creaming.

Like I said, I'm working on it. I am miles ahead of where I was last year. I'll get there. I haven't had confidence that I will get better at this in almost 10 years.