Iraq

Atomic Punk · Post by **Atomic Punk** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 2:36 am

Go ahead cowboy. You don't know shit about things such as powered versus corded tools, so why am I shocked you would claim to know about noooklear weapons?

Yep, self kick ass away.

Gasses, BTW.. my bad there but those two substances are what enhances the yield.

TIA for wasting your time with your Google results.

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 2:49 am

Atomic Punk wrote:
Yep, self kick ass away.

You know what? That was so superlatively fucking stupid, I'm not even going to give you the courtesy of a quick demise.

Nope -- that was so incredibly, jaw-droppingly lame (par for the course for you), that I'm just going to let you twist in the wind on your way to troll hell.

Atomic Punk · Post by **Atomic Punk** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 2:51 am

Are you still busy at work on the lot, or at you back at home?

Tom In VA · Post by **Tom In VA** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 2:57 am

Dinsdale wrote:
silvurna wrote:Is Iran merely engaging in saber-rattling? My gut instincts tell me ..no.
Are the Iranians truly looking to be a nuke-nation and willing to call the cards to the table? My gut instinct tells me ..yes.
I agree. I also believe through either some propaganda tactic, or true ignorance, Iran is grossly overestimating their military capabilities, and grossly underestimating that of the US.

I also believe that the Iranian "leadership" thinks that if the US tangles with them, it will start some holy war (didn't work so well for Bin Laden and co.), and that the American people will become further divided over yet another war...and this will be their undoing.

I think I'm on the record here as being opposed to the Iraq War, but maybe not for the same reasons as a lot of other people, although I share a slight amount of both the "bleeding heart" and "it's not our place" stance as well. But my main concerns are strategic and economic.

Bingo. But. Where's the alternative solution ? Nobody has proposed one yet. There was one, "Give Saddam more time". To do what ?

I share your concerns, both strategically and economically. The enemy intends to overextend us and bankrupt us, that's a no brainer. I'm not impressed in the least.

What's the alternative ?

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 2:58 am

Atomic Punk wrote:Are you still busy at work on the lot, or at you back at home?

What the fuck is wrong with you?

Do you and Bushice have a chat window open to discuss the high-grade "smack?"

Quit fucking humiliating yourself, you tardly fucking douchebag.

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 2:59 am

Tom In VA wrote: What's the alternative ?

I don't got it. Neither do you.

But, wouldn;t it have been better to bring this question up BEFORE we went and occupied another country under false pretenses?

Tom In VA · Post by **Tom In VA** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 3:02 am

Dinsdale wrote:
Tom In VA wrote: What's the alternative ?
I don't got it. Neither do you.

But, wouldn;t it have been better to bring this question up BEFORE we went and occupied another country under false pretenses?

So there was no other alternative. And I have been bringing this question up for almost five years. That would be.

1. After the attack
2. Before the invasion.

Atomic Punk · Post by **Atomic Punk** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 3:04 am

Dins, maybe it went over your head... and even Mace made fun of your foolishness... but are you saying you are Dr. Strangelove?

~Slim Pickens

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 3:15 am

Tom In VA wrote: So there was no other alternative.

Wow. Not quite Atomic Punk dumb, but dumb nonetheless.

Explain to me again why Saddam was a threat, and my close friend is now a gimp to show for it?

You can't. And what's even more pathetic, is neither can the traitors who lied to go to war.

And a great alternative would have been to make sure our other political threats were taken care of before tying up our entire military on lies. Another would have been to DEMAND international support, but it would have taken a strong leader to do that, and we don't got one.

This administration knew that Saddam didn't have WMDs, nor was he going to any time soon. They did however know that Iran was getting their ball rolling.

What more evidence do you need that the Warmongers put their buddies' financial interests ahead of your safety?

That's an act of treason, and I don't give two shits what title the person who committed the crime has next to their name.

Normally, I'd defend and forgive a US President for a lot of things. But not this. I've seen the lives he's sold for profit with my own eyes.

Yet people still won't demand better. It's there for the taking, but people don't want it.

Tom In VA · Post by **Tom In VA** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 3:20 am

Dinsdale wrote:
Tom In VA wrote: So there was no other alternative.
[img]

http://www.cnn.com/US/9812/16/clinton.iraq.speech/

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- From the Oval Office, President Clinton told the nation Wednesday evening why he ordered new military strikes against Iraq.

The president said Iraq's refusal to cooperate with U.N. weapons inspectors presented a threat to the entire world.

"Saddam (Hussein) must not be allowed to threaten his neighbors or the world with nuclear arms, poison gas or biological weapons," Clinton said.

Operation Desert Fox, a strong, sustained series of attacks, will be carried out over several days by U.S. and British forces, Clinton said.

"Earlier today I ordered America's armed forces to strike military and security targets in Iraq. They are joined by British forces," Clinton said.

"Their mission is to attack Iraq's nuclear, chemical and biological weapons programs and its military capacity to threaten its neighbors," said Clinton.

Clinton also stated that, while other countries also had weapons of mass destruction, Hussein is in a different category because he has used such weapons against his own people and against his neighbors

So which liar am I supposed to believe ? Clinton ?

Or ....

A deluded, emotional basketcase from the U&L named after a Monty Python character ?

Atomic Punk · Post by **Atomic Punk** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 3:26 am

Dinxine Waters best look after her South Central homies before she lashes out from Potland, OR.

Dins, you lash out but don't anwser that board that has whooped yer sorry ass upside down and then bled a new signature in cursive.

Tell me what you think you know about nooooklear weapons Dinsdale. I'd like to hear it.

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 3:36 am

So, Tom...where are they?

Oh...you didn't want that question asked, now did you?

Where are these WMDs that my buddy is living with a cane and a nightmare for?

There was no evidence of any. Bush claimed that there was. As did Clinton, although Bubba didn't get completely stupid over it. Actually, Bush told us there was FOR FACT WMDs.

That wasn't true. And obviously, the rhetoric about knowing there were WNMDs FOR FACT wasn't true. That's what's known as a "lie" -- when you intentionally tell people something that you know isn't true, it's known as a "lie," since you seem to be struggling with this.

If Saddam was up to all of this horrible shit, why the need to lie?

The only plausable explainations is all of the hands in the cookie jar.

People are now dead. Based upon lies. Those thousands of dead warriors, and tens of thousands of disabled ones fucking deserved MUCH better than that.

If there was a need to go to war, than so be it. Shit happens. But how are we, the American People supposed to know of this need, when the traitors in charge have no qualms about telling lies?

The again, look who I'm talking to -- some guy who claims to be all about the Lord, yet endorses people killing other peole in his(Tom's) name. You either got your hands on one of those double-secret special Bibles, you know -- the ones with the asterisks next to some of them Commandments... or you're a liar yourself.

Phoney fucking asshole. Nothing worse than a war-mongering tard who A) Isn't even making a buck off the warmongering, and B) Is a fucking half-assed POS wannabe christian.

Atomic Punk · Post by **Atomic Punk** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 3:40 am

Dins, if you tell a batter that a curve or a fastball is coming, do you sit back and let it happen or do you hide your game?

I'm not arguing our politicians are corrupt. They are and are all worthless, self-serving asshats.

You called me out on Nooooklear Weapons. I want to hear what you know about them as you can most assuredly enlighten me on the subject.

TIA

Tom In VA · Post by **Tom In VA** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 3:46 am

Dins,

Actually I might have found it more dubious if WMD were found.

I mean don't you think if Dubya and the pax americana folks wanted to find WMD they would have ? I mean c'mon if Bush is such a diabolical liar, why wouldn't they "improve their lie" ?

I'm not a religious man, so please, if you must engage in personal smack, get your facts right.

Atomic Punk · Post by **Atomic Punk** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 3:57 am

Tom, who are you talking to?

Tom In VA · Post by **Tom In VA** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 4:02 am

Dins, AP.

I'll try and be silent now and let him lay down his knowledge of nukes though.

Atomic Punk · Post by **Atomic Punk** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 4:06 am

How about if we leave Dins' "I need to deflect because I had an idea and now some other fool isn't going to play my way" kind of thing.

Spit it out Tom. What big time knowledge do you have as a govt. worker? I'd love to hear it.

Tom In VA · Post by **Tom In VA** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 4:16 am

Atomic Punk wrote:How about if we leave Dins' "I need to deflect because I had an idea and now some other fool isn't going to play my way" kind of thing.

Spit it out Tom. What big time knowledge do you have as a govt. worker? I'd love to hear it.

I don't work for the government and haven't for about eight years. Whatever information I have in regards to the Iraq situation and global terrorism comes from mainstream, not so mainstream, and pretty fucking extreme news outlets available via the web.

One of my favs is fromthewilderness.com or copvcia.com

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 4:28 am

Atomic Punk wrote:How about if we leave Dins' "I need to deflect because I had an idea and now some other fool isn't going to play my way" kind of thing.

Fatass -- it's WAY too late to try the misquote game. Should have thought about that when you had the chance. You will be dealt with on MY schedule, and none other.

For now, I'll just leave you to give us your in-depth report on that gas known as beryllium, which is SO hard to come by.

Holy fuck, when I said I could write your next fucking post for you, it was no fucking joke.

You WILL stop tarding up this forum. If you ever believe one thing I post here, believe this, and believe it now.

Since the mods ain't gettin er done, there's a new sheriff in town...me. And this one don't need no mod buttons, he don't need admin panels, and he doesn't need the locker full of personal info...oh, sorry...does the personal info thing hit a little too close to home? You used to boast about having it, if you'll remember.

Funny how that works, eh?

Still think this is going to end well for you, tard?

Trust me, it's not. See, the worst thing I've ever done around here to these people is insult their intelligence and insult their mothers. I've certainly never done anything to one person here to fuck with their livelihood, their real-life reputation, or their computer.

You can't say the same, you fucking psycho.

Seriously, by messageboard standards, I'm a fucking saint. Find one person here to say otherwise. They can't, truthfully, because I never did any of those things...because I'm not a fucking psychotic piece of shit. You, on the other hand...

So, still think this is the road you want to go down, and still think I'm the guy you want to travel down it with?

Didn't think so, you feebleminded fucking moron. Sober up and shut up...in that order.

You stupid fat lazy-eyed retard.

Atomic Punk · Post by **Atomic Punk** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 4:34 am

So Dins, you are now melting by calling me names. Can I drive up the day drive and kick your ass in person, or do I need to be 3000 miles away for you to claim rode bode?

You have yet to back yer shit up and it's obvious that you are toking it up. You are using physical desciptions of what you think you know versus answering simple questions.

IB has more sense than you... and that's saying something.

tough love · Post by **tough love** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 11:58 am

I'm getting a giggle outta imagining Din's and Punk, as Capt America and Capt Iran, mixing it up with a their pre- Armageddon banter.

And they are both naked. teehee

silvurna · Post by **silvurna** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 1:05 pm

I didn't begin posting here with the intent of provoking pointless crap or putting up smokescreens. I saw some damned fine writing, some very interesting opinions, and I genuinely believe I can make contributions in that regard. I'll attempt to stay on topic.
I, as many others do, question the wisdom of planning and prosecuting a war based on semi-truths or , as Dinsdale has written, lies.
As regards the WMD issue, something that puzzled me was the failure of the Administration to insist that we poke around in Syria for a while. It was reported on several occasions that there was a lot of traffic across the border , and knowing that Assad had smuggled oil and other provisions into Iraq, it's within the realm of possibility that the Syrians hid some weapons for Hussein.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/artic ... E_ID=36463
We didn't move to check out the reports. Taking a simple denial as gospel truth from the Syrians seems a bit ridiculous. Have the words 'trustworthy' and 'Syria' ever been used positively in a sentence?

Atomic Punk · Post by **Atomic Punk** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 1:27 pm

silvurna wrote:I didn't begin posting here with the intent of provoking pointless crap....
I, as many others do, question the wisdom of as Dinsdale has written, lies.

As you make a valid point there, new friendly PC troll. Dinsdale DOES lie and you have pointed out that truth!

Thank you for getting back on topic. Nice you realize what board yer on, then you will thank me for pointing you in the right direction.

Bace is lies, but Dins lies for a living. Know your boards!

silvurna · Post by **silvurna** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 1:35 pm

Atomic Punk wrote:
silvurna wrote:I didn't begin posting here with the intent of provoking pointless crap....
I, as many others do, question the wisdom of as Dinsdale has written, lies.
As you make a valid point there, new friendly PC troll. Dinsdale DOES lie and you have pointed out that truth!

Thank you for getting back on topic. Nice you realize what board yer on, then you will thank me for pointing you in the right direction.

Bace is lies, but Dins lies for a living. Know your boards!

If you want to be thanked for pointing people in the right direction, go work for Thomas Bros.
You and Dins don't really need to snipe...let's have some talk about those Syrian guys..IMO, they insist on living in the 12th century, are filthy, uneducated, and occupy a spot on The Great Chain Of Being three clicks below plant life..but that's just me.

PSUFAN · Post by **PSUFAN** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 1:59 pm

Coupla things...

I agree that the pretenses for war in Iraq at the time that it was undertaken by the Bush administration were largely false. In fact, one of them was exposed by someone in the know (Wilson) - and in an almost childish but surely very dangerous retaliatory gesture, they outed a CIA operative. Now, they have the matchless temerity to be decrying "leaks"...arrogance and stupidity unbounded.
I suppose a "leak" really means "someone called us on our bullshit"...as with a lot of other shit, their logic is based on what is convenient for them to accomplish , rather than what is morally imperative.

On topic, though...is anyone really surprised that since the nuke nut got cracked in the last century, there would be folks that we didn't want to have that technology starting to gain it? Can there be any genuine surprise at this, given the proliferative propensities of the halfwits that currently pilot our foreign policy:

to India: forget about the non-proliferation agreement.
to Pakistan, on the same fucking trip: don't expect our help with nukes, because there's this thing called the Non-Proliferation agreement that we all have to abide by.

Should we have removed Saddam Hussein? Of course, he is a deplorable tyrant. Should we have understood what was to follow much better? Of fucking course - they should have listened to the voices within the administration itself that offered cautionary advice. They should have stepped further along in their planning past "Halliburton will take care of it. Give them a no-bid, cost-plus contract".

Taking out Saddam (how's that trial going?) was a positive step, but you have to wonder how many steps back the "Mission Accomplished" crowd are willing to force us to take.

BTW, we can't throw money into the Iraq hole forever and ever. It is a seriously crippling financial endeavor, one that limits our effectiveness in other crucial and critical hotspots. I know that Rumsfeld and Cheney were convinced by their fawning adulatory lapdogs that Iraq would be quick and easy, but it fucking well isn't turning out that way.

IF there are WMDs, they're not in Iraq, and we weren't able to prevent them from moving out.

IF Iran is pursuing nuclear weapons (of fucking course they are) then there's little we can do about it "diplomatically".

IF we have made strides in the War against Terror, are they enough to prevent attacks like 9/11, something that was planned, implemented, and executed by a small group of folks the like of which may be among us, illegal citizen wiretapping and google-search supoenas quite apart from the fact?

Welcome to clusterfuck central.

DMike316 · Post by **DMike316** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 2:07 pm

I saw we all gather in a circle around Dinsdale and Atomic Punk and push them into the middle against each other until they fight.
Just like in 3rd grade.

WAR - "FIGHT! FIGHT!"

tough love · Post by **tough love** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 2:36 pm

^

And we can call the loser, Pussy, just not to his face.

Okay, since none of you bigger heads want to go there, I will.

When the US goes after Iran, they better be expecting to have to deal with the rest of the Rag States, Russia, and then China.

Everyone has wants, including country's not mentioned above.

Scary Times.

Sirfindafold · Post by **Sirfindafold** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 2:45 pm

Dinsdale wrote:[....So, to my point -- I'm no military strategist.....

...And a ground invasion is out of the question, due to our "other commitments"(way to fuck that up, W).......

...our military's hands are tied, and fairly fucked at the moment, and basically is pretty weak...

Should have stuck with your first point. You would have looked less like a blithering idiot.

Just trying to help out a fellow board member.

Tom In VA · Post by **Tom In VA** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 3:19 pm

tough love wrote:^

When the US goes after Iran, they better be expecting to have to deal with the rest of the Rag States, Russia, and then China.

Everyone has wants, including country's not mentioned above.

Scary Times.

Correct.

PSUFAN wrote:
I agree that the pretenses for war in Iraq at the time that it was undertaken by the Bush administration were largely false. In fact, one of them was exposed by someone in the know (Wilson) - and in an almost childish but surely very dangerous retaliatory gesture, they outed a CIA operative. Now, they have the matchless temerity to be decrying "leaks"...arrogance and stupidity unbounded.
I suppose a "leak" really means "someone called us on our bullshit"...as with a lot of other shit, their logic is based on what is convenient for them to accomplish , rather than what is morally imperative.

On topic, though...is anyone really surprised that since the nuke nut got cracked in the last century, there would be folks that we didn't want to have that technology starting to gain it? Can there be any genuine surprise at this, given the proliferative propensities of the halfwits that currently pilot our foreign policy:

Plame's status is questionable. She worked at Langley since 1997.

Fitzgerald wrote: Let me say two things. Number one, I am not speaking to whether or not Valerie Wilson was covert. And anything I say is not intended to say anything beyond this: that she was a CIA officer from January 1st, 2002, forward. I will confirm that her association with the CIA was classified at that time through July 2003. And all I'll say is that, look, we have not made any allegation that Mr. Libby knowingly, intentionally outed a covert agent. We have not charged that. And so I'm not making that assertion

Bush, is allowed to declassify information. The intelligence gathered that pointed to Iraq's WMD programs was false. Of course we wouldn't have known how false it was unless we took the action we took. We wouldn't have been able to review the exact maturity level of Saddam's WMD programs because he kicked the inspectors out in 1998. Invading proved two things.

1. He did not have the capability to use WMD as quickly as first thought.
2. He was in the process of rebuilding his WMD capabilities.

PSUFAN wrote: Welcome to clusterfuck central.

This clusterfuck started a loooong time ago. Any president would have been faced with it. Finding a way to live without depending on oil is probably our best bet.

Tom In VA · Post by **Tom In VA** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 4:04 pm

mvscal wrote: That leaves Iraq as the only way into Iran for a major operation. The Iranians understand this very clearly even though most people in the in US don't. That's why they are fighting us tooth and nail in Iraq.

There it is.

All in all rack that take. Those are the kinds of posts I enjoy reading in these discussions.