A question about Israel

[PSUFAN]

What is compelling about Israeli residency? What makes it better as a place to live - for most folks, not religious zealots - than say White Plains or Brooklyn or West Hollywood?

Myself, I'd live in the US, where it seems like the livin' is better - more opportunity, more security overall, more natural beauty, etc.

When you have options, why do you choose a tiny country in the desert surrounded by your permanent sworn enemies?

[Cicero]

I dont get it either. I have a couple of Jewish friends who this summer all went and visited Israel for 2 weeks and spoke of what an honor it was to go visit. I dont know about you, but when I go on vacation I dont want to have to worry about stepping onto a bus filled w/ explosives.

[PSUFAN]

Call it what you will. I have a family that I'd prefer to keep away from danger where possible.

Moreover, you're missing the point. What's so great about that hunk of land? If you have options why do you choose that place?

[Cuda]

you live in fucking pittsburgh. how much safer than israel do you think you are?

[Dog]

Antoher thoughtful response by mvscal.


Israel is a tiny blip on a map surrounded by countries that cannot stand them. Maybe they should be the ones who give up stake to that land and relocate.

[Cuda]

Antoher thoughtful response by mvscal.

and another fucking load of shit from you

[PSUFAN]

To me, a "religious zealot" is someone who insists that a hunk of land is "theirs". Who says so?* Besides military might on loan, who says so?




*GOD, right? Ergo...zealotry.

[PSUFAN]

you live in fucking pittsburgh. how much safer than israel do you think you are?

a lot-imo

[PSUFAN]

It's theirs.

Someone else says it isn't theirs. Now - stay with me here - what's so great about living there, day-to-day?

Sure, maybe you feel like it's "yours", but what about your family? Don't they just want to get an education and provide for their own families?

[Mike the Lab Rat]

IMNSHO, I'd rather have folks who are so utterly devoted to Israel move there, rather than have them try to pull the dual-citizenship bullshit. You're the citizen of one nation OR the other. can't serve "two masters". My grandparents made their decision and became American citizens - those relatives that came over at the same time but felt loyalty to the "old country" went back.

I give props to folks who realize where their true national loyalties lie and then move there.

[PSUFAN]

I'd rather have folks who are so utterly devoted to Israel move there, rather than have them try to pull the dual-citizenship bullshit.

I totally agree. Israel is not American soil, and vice-versa.

[Dog]

mvscal, you are not the only one who knows history, contrary to your own beliefs.

My point was simply that this place is like the size of...Rhode Island??? All of their neighbors hate them, yet they seem to consistently be engaged in hostile affairs with each of them.

Its similar to the two black families we have here in Idaho trying to start a Black Power rally. Sure, it may be their right....but it seems like the odds are stacked against them.

[Dog]

Antoher thoughtful response by mvscal.

and another fucking load of shit from you

PSUFAN tries to engage in thoughtful conversation and the best that some people can come up with is "you are pussies"??? Yeah, I give a lot of credibility to posts like that.

[Van]

To me, a "religious zealot" is someone who insists that a hunk of land is "theirs". Who says so?* Besides military might on loan, who says so?

In the long history of mankind military might (on loan or otherwise) has always been the one and only definitive answer to the question of "who says so?"...

Israel owns it because the U.N. voted to give it to them and now Israel and her allies have the military might to keep it.

We own our land because we had the military might to dislodge the previous residents. All land is ultimately owned thusly, ever and anon...

The answer to your main question is a simple one: It's attractive to Jews because it's theirs. They aren't living as unwanted second class citizens in Israel, which is what they were used to in their former countries.

It may be a shithole, but it's their shithole, and over time they plan on making it less and less of a shithole.

That pesky little problem of being surrounded by sworn enemies? Well, I think it's safe to say that if things keep up the way they are now one way or the other that problem will resolve itself soon enough. Either Israel will be wiped from the map (fat chance) or the size of Israel's friendly buffer zone will soon see a dramatic increase.

If the Arab world doesn't wish to see the latter happen then they'd better calm the fuck down and accept the fact that a tiny Israel that would like nothing better than to leave them alone while being left alone themselves sure beats the inevitable Much Larger Israel that's sure to occur if this current shit escalates into a formal war...

[PSUFAN]

To me, a "religious zealot" is someone who insists that a hunk of land is "theirs". Who says so?* Besides military might on loan, who says so?

Oh, I don't know-history?

Is the United States ours? Who says so?

Our military might says so. That's what I said above. Our military might on loan says so for Israel. It doesn't take a zealot to understand that. All land is "stolen" from someone, the US, Israel, Palestine, Uruguay. I understand the idea that one claims land and defends it.

That zealot noise about God giving you the land...fuck that noise.

BTW, unfortunately, I expect terror to increase in Israel in the next few weeks. As we know, the Israelis are turning Lebanon into rubble as we type here. In response, Lebanese guerillas fired more than 50 rockets into Israel yesterday alone.

Like I said...call it what you want, but I'd choose a safer place to live over Israel. I value the lives of my family over an endless, intractable, and pervasive conflict.

[Dog]

To me, a "religious zealot" is someone who insists that a hunk of land is "theirs". Who says so?* Besides military might on loan, who says so?

In the long history of mankind military might (on loan or otherwise) has always been the one and only definitive answer to the question of "who says so?"...

Israel owns it because the U.N. voted to give it to them and now Israel and her allies have the military might to keep it.

We own our land because we had the military might to dislodge the previous residents. All land is ultimately owned thusly, ever and anon...

The answer to your main question is a simple one: It's attractive to Jews because it's theirs. They aren't living as unwanted second class citizens in Israel, which is what they were used to in their former countries.

It may be a shithole, but it's their shithole, and over time they plan on making it less and less of a shithole.

That pesky little problem of being surrounded by sworn enemies? Well, I think it's safe to say that if things keep up the way they are now one way or the other that problem will resolve itself soon enough. Either Israel will be wiped from the map (fat chance) or the size of Israel's friendly buffer zone will soon see a dramatic increase.

If the Arab world doesn't wish to see the latter happen then they'd better calm the fuck down and accept the fact that a tiny Israel that would like nothing better than to leave them alone while being left alone themselves sure beats the inevitable Much Larger Israel that's sure to occur if this current shit escalates into a formal war...

Rack. Nothing else really needs to be said.

[Van]

That zealot noise about God giving you the land...fuck that noise.

True. God didn't give that land to Israel. It was given to them by the United States, the United Kingdom, a shitload of other voting nations and, most of all, the insanity of messers Hitler and Stalin.

[PSUFAN]

It's attractive to Jews because it's theirs. They aren't living as unwanted second class citizens in Israel, which is what they were used to in their former countries.

Interesting how Ethiopian Jews are treated like dirt in Israel, their purported "homeland"...but I digress.

Jews are not treated as second class citizens in the US. Many Jewish families have made the US their home on a permanent basis for generations and generations. Jews have overcome barriers here and done so in remarkable fashion. They've made "theirs" in many aspects of American life.

That's how I'd prefer to live...not relying on some zealot's idea that some land is "theirs"...and in so doing exposing my family to constant danger.

[Uncle Fester]

True. God didn't give that land to Israel. It was given to them by the United States, the United Kingdom, a shitload of other voting nations and, most of all, the insanity of messers Hitler and Stalin.

Actually, by the 1940s, the Jews owned about one-third of the land. They bought and paid for it.

[RadioFan]

What is compelling about Israeli residency? What makes it better as a place to live - for most folks, not religious zealots - than say White Plains or Brooklyn or West Hollywood?

Reasons vary, imo. For those whose interest is in history, there's something to be said about living in a place where you are surrounded by buildings and artifacts that date to thousands of years ago. You can feel it when you're over there. There's tons of stuff still waiting to be uncovered, too.

Others come for religious reasons or for certain ways of living (the Kibbutzes in Northern Israel are facinating and many enjoy living that life).

I dont know about you, but when I go on vacation I dont want to have to worry about stepping onto a bus filled w/ explosives.

As opposed to London, Madrid, Bombay, New York or Washington. Just stick to making up stories about skanks at Applebees, idiot.

[Van]

Also, it's not like plenty of Jews haven't made their homes in cushier and less dangerous areas than Israel.

Fuckers.

Sincerely,
Louis Farrakhan

[The Whistle Is Screaming]

Rack BtH & RF.

They understand it.

PSU, you obviously don't understand it (which is OK), but said some blatantly stupid things (not OK*).

5700+ years of history should have been your first clue.





* I expect more from you, cut your beer consumption by 1/2 this weekend as punishment**.


** I'll have my God smite you if you cheat.

[PSUFAN]

but said some blatantly stupid things (not OK*).

Can you be specific? What's stupid about asking why folks with options might want to live there?

BTW, rack RadioFan for answering the question.

[Jimmy Medalions]

there's something to be said about living in a place where you are surrounded by buildings and artifacts that date to thousands of years ago. You can feel it when you're over there.

Huge racks, so true. I don't believe in the gods the Greeks used to worship, but I sure as hell felt like they were looking down on me when I stood at the top of the Acropolis in Athens. Hell, I get that feeling every time I travel back to South Bend and step foot onto Notre Dame's campus.

Spiritual centers are nothing new. You don't have to be a jew to get the significance of Israel. You don't need to believe in Zeus and Apollo to feel the vibe of Athens, and you don't need to be a Catholic to be humbled by the Vatican.

While I wouldn't choose to live in Israel, I'm sure a visit there would have a big effect on me. To someone who views Israel as holy, it's not difficult to understand their need to stay.

[Bizzarofelice]

As I said before, you are a pussy who will never fight for anything therefore you will never be able to understand anyone who is willing to fight for his country, his land and the future of his people.

OH NOES! LOOKOUT FOR INTERNETS TOUGH GUY!

All information funneled through a narrow part of mvscal's brain that can see nothing but a flag on a t-shirt. You were stupid enough to become a tool of the government, and still so goddamned dumb that you can't think any other way. You'll probably go to your grave with your head still firmly stuck in Uncle Sam's asscrack joyfully licking whatever crap comes out. There's a whole 'nother world out there, but you have no interest.

Why even bother trying?

Now you're talking.

[LTS TRN 2]

As I said before, you are a pussy who will never fight for anything therefore you will never be able to understand anyone who is willing to fight for his country, his land and the future of his people.

Why even bother trying?

You're talking about the Palestinians, right?

After all, like the Poles and French, they were invaded by a (American- backed) Nazi army, occupied and forced to deal with the monstrous invading army in formal negotiations, etc.

So what? As you suggest, the virtue and NEED to somehow resist and fight back against the race-state marauders is imperitive in human nature. WHat would you do? Just allow the Israelis to starve you in a giant cage?

Despite the massive propagandic efforts of the ZioNazi machine--including the very best efforts to muzzle ALL media coverage of this latest blitzkrieg on the civilian population of Lebanon--this vile consortium will fall.

And btw, as you well know, inflicting collective punishment for specific military actions is COMPLETELY contrary to all international law. Look it up.

[Atomic Punk]

What is compelling about Israeli residency? What makes it better as a place to live - for most folks, not religious zealots - than say White Plains or Brooklyn or West Hollywood?

Reasons vary, imo. For those whose interest is in history, there's something to be said about living in a place where you are surrounded by buildings and artifacts that date to thousands of years ago. You can feel it when you're over there. There's tons of stuff still waiting to be uncovered, too.

Those artifacts prove the historical Bible being a valid historical record of events as they are uncovered and found. Human history started in that ME region and the tribes that originally occupied that region are divided based upon what they believe to be the real God.

For those that don't believe in a god or the God of Israel, I won't try to convince you otherwise. Current history teachings in classrooms are more focused on multi-culturalism rather than what has been around since recorded history.

RF made an interesting point about feeling the area. I've been to a few Civil War battlefields (Shiloh, TN and Gettysburg, PA) and you definitely feel the spirits of those areas. You see the gravesites and how many are of unknown souls.

For those that didn't join the military to get some benefit, you are wired in a way to want to kick ass but hope you never have to use your training to kill an enemy. You don't want to do it.

I'm all over the map Bace, but you knew that.

Iran and Syria are really pushing the wrong buttons with an activated war force in Israel. I've talked about this a few months ago while talking about how we are setting up a permanent military presence in Iraq to keep thosee two countries contained. Well, they recognize they are really losing and are now provoking the Israelis. Bad move you sons of perdition.

End of rant.

[LTS TRN 2]

Again you're talking about the French, Belgians, etc., in '42. After all, what could they do in the face of obvious overwhelming military superiority, right? Just accept it, right?

Wrong. Just as the French or Poles or Ukraines or anyone else under the heel of Nazi Germany could never be expected to accept their situation, so too when you suggest that because the Palestinians have indeed been militarily conquered (thanks to the U.S.--not any innate Israeli virtue or competence), that, what, they should accept occupation and slow starvation and collective punishment? Of course no people on earth could or should accept being occupied and subjugated.

It didn't work in South Africa, it didn't work in Algeria, it didn't work in Nazi Germany, Viet Nam. And it won't work in Palestine or Iraq. Just because the ZioNazis seem tough and "successful" as they wildly attack everyone around them, surely you can see that this is like a freaked out thrashing child--who happens to have a gun. Time is against them, as well as basic human decency.

No entity in history has provided more impetus for the vile Islamic fundamentalists than Israel and its seething aggression. Too bad our government--which has at least some power to bring Israel to heel--is itself a thoroughly corrupt cabal of neocon evangelical defense industry whores. It's a bad situation, we can certainly agree.

[Atomic Punk]

Dick head 2, the Israelis aren't even fighting hard right now. Have they vowed to run every Muslim into the sea like the enemy. What's with this Nazi deal? You are focused on this and you are so pathetic in your lack of knowledge of history, it's ... ponderous.

[Bizzarofelice]

Western Civilization started in that ME region.

Fixed. Beyond resources, China and Asia finds our preoccupation with the Middle East curious.

For those that don't believe in a god or the God of Israel, I won't try to convince you otherwise. Current history teachings in classrooms are more focused on multi-culturalism rather than what has been around since recorded history.

Don't know where you're going here.

I think the "feeling" of an area is a limited brain's attempt at putting pieces together. Not trying to smack with the word limited, just saying that few facts and some sense of respect instilled by our culture lead to this "feeling". There may be "history" at a place but what exactly does that mean? Civilization had growing pains on the spot?

[RadioFan]

Of course no people on earth could or should accept being occupied and subjugated.

It was never a problem when (Soviet-backed) Egypt and Jordan were the "occupiers." In fact, they simply massacred the Palestinians by the thousands when the Palestians demanded anything.

The Palestinians have only themselves to blame. Corrupt and incompetent leadership combined with a neverending attitude of victimization/refusal to recognize Israel's right to exist has not and will not work. Ever.

As for Hezbollah, why don't you take a trip over there and see how "understanding" they are to a goddamn dumbfuck who spends all day typing out nonsensical conspiracy theory bullshit.

[Atomic Punk]

Best Bace post evah... at least towards myself. Maybe that's what it was. Gettysburg was more overwhelming than Shiloh. You may be right about how the brain tries to figure things out.

The visuals of the many graves and the actual battlefield as it was turning to dusk, was just beyond what one could take in at that time.

[Rich Fader]

As I said before, you are a pussy who will never fight for anything therefore you will never be able to understand anyone who is willing to fight for his country, his land and the future of his people.

Why even bother trying?

You're talking about the Palestinians, right?

After all, like the Poles and French, they were invaded by a (American- backed) Nazi army...

If the Israelis are the Nazis in this little tiff, then why haven't they cyanide-gassed all the Palis and then cremated them yet? I for one feel cheated.

[Uncle Fester]

It didn't work in South Africa, it didn't work in Algeria, it didn't work in Nazi Germany, Viet Nam. And it won't work in Palestine or Iraq. Just because the ZioNazis seem tough and "successful" as they wildly attack everyone around them, surely you can see that this is like a freaked out thrashing child--who happens to have a gun. Time is against them, as well as basic human decency.

The Jews have regarded Israel as their homeland for 3,000 years. We're talking about a tiny parcel of land and a country of 7 million people, 18.5 percent of whom happen to be Arab.

The UN proposed splitting the place in half in 1947 and the Arabs were too stupid and greedy to take it.

Where is your call for Muslims to give back all the land they've taken by brutal conquest? As they strap bombs to children and blow up people on trains, airplanes, and in market places, what concern do they show for "human decency?" Wake the fukk up indeed.

[Dog]

Damn, I love the "I'm so smart and you'll never get it, so I don't have to say anything else" type of argument. It is usually reserved for the truly ignorant, but mvscal seems to hold the patent.

[Dinsdale]

A board does need it's tards.

Ouch.


That whole "proofread all 'intelligence smack' before posting" thing comes to mind.

[LTS TRN 2]

It didn't work in South Africa, it didn't work in Algeria, it didn't work in Nazi Germany, Viet Nam. And it won't work in Palestine or Iraq. Just because the ZioNazis seem tough and "successful" as they wildly attack everyone around them, surely you can see that this is like a freaked out thrashing child--who happens to have a gun. Time is against them, as well as basic human decency.

The Jews have regarded Israel as their homeland for 3,000 years. We're talking about a tiny parcel of land and a country of 7 million people, 18.5 percent of whom happen to be Arab.

The UN proposed splitting the place in half in 1947 and the Arabs were too stupid and greedy to take it.

Where is your call for Muslims to give back all the land they've taken by brutal conquest? As they strap bombs to children and blow up people on trains, airplanes, and in market places, what concern do they show for "human decency?" Wake the fukk up indeed.

Uh, Fester, the Jewish kingdom of Israel existed for about 150 years about 800 BCE. After that, the Jews were a vassal population of various empires, as you know. Most of them chose to live outside of present day Palestine. The notion that a brief ancient kingdom somehow allows for the 1948 expropriation of Palestine is so absurd that only a religious freak could buy into it. The U.N. sanction for the establishment of the Zionist state was a gerrymandered affair in the very first year of the U.N.'s existence. ALL of the Arab nations bitterly rejected the idea. What, that doesn't count?

As far as suicide bombers, this is a measure of last resort. Fester, Gaza City is a giant CAGE. What part of this monstrous act by Israel don't you seem to comprehend?

Personally, I abhor the Islamic fundamentalists as much as I abhor evangelical Christers. I see them as two sides of a toxic coin, as it were. If you can't see, however, that Israel is itself the single biggest motivation for the rise of these Hezbullah, Bin Ladin types, than you're being very dishonest.

It's true, a Zionist is just a Jewish Nazi. Do you really think there's a significant difference? That is, despite the horrendous savagery initiated by the Germans as WWII mounted, don't you know that many Nazi policies were aimed--like present Israeli policies--at long-term slow strangulation, as it were, tactics for the subjugated peoples?

Israel's current policies of starvation and deprivation are not only aimed at litterally weakening and impoverishing an entire population, but in insuring a constant ENEMY whose desperate acts guarantee the necessity of their own constant Wermacht policies. You see, without constant warfare and "necessary defensive" actions, Israel would HAVE no society.

They can't produce nearly enough food for their population. They require the importation as well of hundreds of thousands of coolie laborers to do the basic work. Their economy has always been a disaster--with weapons their only export for the first fifty years. In short, it's an artificial society based on bizarre and wholly undefinable rules and laws of "race"--and a giant American-backed military machine.

WAKE THE FUCK UP!!!

[Atomic Punk]

They can't produce nearly enough food for their population. They require the importation as well of hundreds of thousands of coolie laborers to do the basic work. Their economy has always been a disaster--with weapons their only export for the first fifty years. In short, it's an artificial society based on bizarre and wholly undefinable rules and laws of "race"--and a giant American-backed military machine.

WAKE THE FUCK UP!!!

This shit troll has to be Pickle. There are no new posters here Frisco.

[indyfrisco]

WAKE THE FUCK UP!!!

What's with all the "wakey wake" and "wake up" takes? Fucking childish...

This shit troll has to be Pickle. There are no new posters here Frisco.

Leave me out of this.

[Dinsdale]

Frisco.

Leave me out of this.

My bestest baseball watching buddy recently called me from a Frisco Roughriders game-btw.

Says your town is a shithole among shitholes-btw.