Lloyd Carr hates the disabled--blames them for loss

Sky · Post by **Sky** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 7:50 pm

So, Lloyd Carr loses a game, complains to the Big 10 and some ref loses his job. Oh yeah, the ref only had one eye.

Jim Filson didn't give up his dream of working as a Big Ten football official despite losing sight in his right eye after an accident six years ago. Supported by Dave Parry, the Big Ten's supervisor of officials, Filson, an eight-year conference veteran, returned to the field the fall after the accident and officiated the next five seasons. He said he received higher performance ratings with one eye than he did with two, and earned the prestigious postseason assignment of working an Orange Bowl.

But last spring, the Big Ten fired him. In a lawsuit filed Monday in the Northern District of Illinois, Filson claimed under the American Disabilities Act that the decision was made strictly on the basis that he has vision in only one eye.

Filson said in the suit that Big Ten Commissioner Jim Delaney fired him after Michigan coach Lloyd Carr complained that Filson was officiating with one eye.

"Mr. Delaney's perceptions about me are false," Filson said in a statement to the Illinois Department of Human Rights. "I fully meet all of the physical requirements of the job, as was exhibited by my very successful performance on the field in the five years after my accident and before my termination."

Since the suit was filed, the officiating community has been abuzz. Discussions have centered on three main topics:

• Do officials, who have been seen by conferences as independent contractors, have the same rights as employees?
• What physical requirements must a person meet to be an official?
• Does a league or conference have any right to enforce those requirements?

Filson worked in the Big Ten for eight seasons before he fell and hit his right eye on the corner of a table in an accident in March 2000. He permanently lost his vision in the eye. In the lawsuit, Filson said he informed Parry with the Big Ten about the accident and subsequent surgery to have his eye removed and a prosthetic put in its place. The suit said Parry encouraged him to try to return to the field.

After consulting with several medical experts and working spring and summer basketball and football games to test his vision, the suit said, Filson decided he was able to officiate. He returned to officiating that fall, the suit said, with Parry's approval and understanding of Filson's situation.

Filson's suit said he spent the next five seasons officiating without incident and that his reviews were "substantially better" in the five seasons with one eye than they were in the eight seasons when he had both.

Before the spring of 2005, the suit said, a reporter informed Michigan's Carr that Filson was officiating with one eye. Carr complained to Delaney, the Big Ten Commissioner, the suit said. Without any vision test or medical exam or formal meeting, the suit said, Delaney told Parry to fire Filson. The official was dismissed May 3, 2005.

In a subsequent meeting with Filson, Delaney explained the action because Filson did not "have two eyes" and failed to meet the "minimum physical requirements" of the job, the suit said. Delaney said that if Filson missed a judgment call and the public or coaches knew the official had only one eye, he would have "hell to pay."

Carr also declined to comment.
The case is being watched. Tommy Hunt, who officiated in the ACC for 26 years and is now the league's Coordinator of Football Officials, referred to it as "a strange one."

"I hate to say it, but there are two things you have to be able to do in officiating: You have to be able to move and you have to be able to see," he said. "But if the guy is performing on the field, I'm not sure if the conference is going to have much of an argument, even if he has only one eye."

There is legal precedent here. In 1996, Lorenzo Clemons sued the Big Ten claiming he was wrongfully dismissed "due to a perceived disability of obesity," and because he is black. Clemons also sued under the Americans with Disabilities Act. He lost the case.

"But with me, they had the ratings," Clemons said this week. "They consistently gave me lower ratings all along, knowing what they were going to do with me. But with Jimmy, he's always had high ratings. I mean, if he was really that bad, then why didn't they do this earlier? And why did they send him to an Orange Bowl?"

In 2003, a deaf basketball official, Marsha Wetzel, sued the Eastern College Athletic Conference, contending the league failed to provide her the same opportunity to participate that was afforded others.

Also suing under the ADA, Wetzel won her case and the league was forced to have sign-language interpreters and other aids available to her for meetings, training seminars and games.

Also at issue are the rights of individual referees. Most conferences view officials as independent contractors and pay them about $750 a game to work 12 weekends a year. Officials see themselves as employees and thus eligible for the same rights.

indyfrisco · Post by **indyfrisco** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 7:54 pm

So the old saying of "He ref! Get some glasses!" may not hold water anymore?

Looks like maybe the hecklers will now be yelling, "He ref! Poke an eye out!"

Sky · Post by **Sky** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 8:01 pm

Well and seriously, the deaf basketball ref. How many times did a fellow referee blow the whistle, the guy with the ball picked up his dribble and then she blows her whistle for traveling?

But really, if the one-eyed ref was doing fine, let him work. It isn't like the rest of the Big10 refs are performing any better with two eyes.

buckeye_in_sc · Post by **buckeye_in_sc** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 8:03 pm

What a little bitch LLOYD is...one of the most chronic complaining of officiating in college football...

yeah blame your coaching inadequecies on an official...nice going LLOYD...god I hope Michigan goes 0 and FUCKING 11 or 12 (sorry Michigan fan) but this guy has always been such a classless prick when it comes to officiating and what not...hey LLOYD how about you take some classes from coaches who actually treat officials with class...

kharma is a bitch and it will bite LLOYD...

if dude got better ratings after the eye incident who gives a rats ass?

L45B · Post by **L45B** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 8:46 pm

Awww, poor LLLLoyd. If he keeps this shit up, he'd sure better count on another police dog search at the Shoe on 11/18.

Cicero · Post by **Cicero** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 9:46 pm

Sucks to say but good eyesight is need if you are going to be an official. Only having one functional is not going to cut it.

Mr T · Post by **Mr T** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 9:56 pm

I wanna see a one-armed baseball ump.

"He is saaafffeeeee"

Visual:
()
|--
/\

Terry in Crapchester · Mon Jul 24, 2006 9:58 pm

Sky wrote:But really, if the one-eyed ref was doing fine, let him work.

A one-eyed ref could work if football were a two-dimensional game. Unfortunately, it isn't.

Having only one eye adversely affects depth perception significantly. I would submit that it's to the extent that it might be an absolute hindrance to being a ref, although I suppose I could be wrong about that.

PSUFAN · Post by **PSUFAN** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 4:09 am

I'm not in the habit of racking Lloyd, but I'll do so here. If the guy can't perceive depth, then he should find another vocation. Depth perception is necessary for this job.

MgoBlue-LightSpecial · Tue Jul 25, 2006 4:46 am

The one-eyed ref was also working against whoever Lloyd's opposition was at the time.

Kinda like if the field is slippery, it's slippery for both teams. So from that standpoint, he needs to STFU.

Seriously, though, other than the whole "slippery slope" angle, I don't see why he should've been fired.

If he truly deserved to be fired, he would've made enough mistakes long ago to have warranted his removal by himself. Simply put: If his eye was damaging his ability enough to make consistent calls, he would've "kicked his own ass" a long time ago. It wasn't until one guy bitched about one game (which could happen to any ref) that led to his termination.

That's sad that a five year span of "above quality" work trumped the calls from a single game.

PSUFAN · Post by **PSUFAN** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 4:53 am

It wasn't until one guy bitched about one game (which could happen to any ref) that led to his termination.

Well, I'll agree with you there. It's a little unnerving to see what kind of pull Lloyd has in Delaney's office.

buckeye_in_sc · Post by **buckeye_in_sc** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 9:54 am

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I don't know how he got the words out with Delaney's cock in his mouth and all...

I agree with MGO...even after the eye accident dude had EXCEPTIONAL or above average reports...what more do you need? It's not as if he kept blowing calls...I have seen more refs with two eyes blow calls than you can imagine...did he perhaps blow a call or two? I am sure of it...but refs blow calls all the time and they don't get fired...I just hope this kharmic incident comes back and bites LLOYD square on the ASS...

indyfrisco · Post by **indyfrisco** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 1:16 pm

Where's "the game" this year? If it's in the shoe, OSUFan needs to show up with eye patches.

BlindRef · Post by **BlindRef** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 1:43 pm

Lloyd is such a bad guy for reporting a lying official.

You suckeyes are just grasping at straws.

It would be easier to take any shit from you guys if

a) you had ANY academic standards whatsoever.

b) your coach hasn't left a trail of corruption every where he's been.

Cicero · Post by **Cicero** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 1:43 pm

I believe it is.

Sky · Post by **Sky** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 2:10 pm

Well, you don’t lose your depth perception entirely - just the binocular cues. A person with only one eye would have diminished depth perception from about 3 to 7 yards away. Anything closer or farther away and it’s mostly monocular anyway.

Still, losing 30 degrees of vision is a big deal, but I really feel that if he performed well during the last 5 years, you can't fire him. If nothing else, the Big10 established a precent by allowing him to ref over that time and make themselves look more foolish by firing him now.

Actually, I hope he does win, and just to rub it in Lloyd Carr’s face, I’d like to see him ref a Michigan-Ohio State game while wearing an eyepatch, and making calls like, “Arrrrgh! First Down! Ohio State!”

buckeye_in_sc · Post by **buckeye_in_sc** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 3:20 pm

BlindRef wrote wrote: Lloyd is such a bad guy for reporting a lying official.

You suckeyes are just grasping at straws.

It would be easier to take any shit from you guys if

a) you had ANY academic standards whatsoever.

b) your coach hasn't left a trail of corruption every where he's been

still grasping that ESPN paper tiger of a story and running with it huh? Can you prove the trail of corruption? You must have better sources than ESPN so please tell us...

Why don't you actually admit that LLOYD is one of the biggest bitches when it comes to officials...it appears the official didn't lie...He told the SUPERVISOR of OFFICIALS of the issue...he had no problem with it...he also got better game grades after the accident...so tell me how he lied again? Reading comprehension much?

Academic Standards huh? explain to me then how some recruits have been turned away by tOSU while meeting NCAA academic standards but yet not meeting tOSU academic standards...

you know the whole glass house thing...like NO ONE ever does anything wrong at Michigan...

just typical elitest michigan fan grasping at straws knowing going into the season they can't beat tOSU and will just be 2nd fiddle yet again...

PSUFAN · Post by **PSUFAN** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 3:23 pm

2nd fiddle

I'll take umbrage to that...next year. There's some work to be done this year.

buckeye_in_sc · Post by **buckeye_in_sc** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 3:25 pm

^^^^^^^^^^^^

my apologies...the Michigan hatred is flowing a little earlier this year...

ok how about 3rd Fiddle This year...

I guess Michigan fan is not coming to grips with the fact that Jimmy T will run his record to 5-1 vs LLOYD and thus LLOYD will be the 2000's version of John Cooper...

Sky · Post by **Sky** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 4:08 pm

I don't think I need to point out the irony of BlindRef posting in a topic about a one-eyed ref, right?

Anyway, while I will admit UM has higher academic standards than OSU, I do not honestly believe OSU commits any fraudulent activities when it comes to academics (see Auburn sociology dept).

Plus, if higher academic standards means a campus protest every other week because the "enlightened" student body at UM feels they need to strike a blow against Israel, Microsoft, SE Asia, Bhopal, education, nuclear waste....etc., I don't want standards like that. Take your fucking liberal whistle blowers and your stool pigeon coach and enjoy your 1-4 record.

Lloyd always has a reason why it isn't his fault. This is just another example in a laundry list of similar actions.

indyfrisco · Post by **indyfrisco** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 4:12 pm

Sky wrote:I don't think I need to point out the irony of BlindRef posting in a topic about a one-eyed ref, right?

Rack.

WolverineSteve · Post by **WolverineSteve** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 4:25 pm

Nice troll job Buckeyes.

Where in the article does it say "Lloyd Carr hates the disabled"?

Where does it say Lloys blamed the one eyed ref for a loss?

I'd love to see if old one-eye botched a call giving UM a win over OSU how y'all would feel about him reffing. CFB is big business. Lloyd having this dude shit-canned has an equal effect on every team in the conference. You should be thanking Lloyd for taking the heat on this one, a stand up team (conference) player.

Sky · Post by **Sky** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 4:48 pm

Dude you are way too funny and I think you are taking this way too serious.

L45B · Post by **L45B** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 4:48 pm

BlindRef wrote wrote: You suckeyes are just grasping at straws.

It would be easier to take any shit from you guys if...

...your coach hasn't left a trail of corruption every where he's been

buckeye_in_sc wrote:You must have better sources than ESPN so please tell us...

Actually _sc, BlindRef is stating fact. He just forgot to cite Jon & Babs as his main references.

MgoBlue-LightSpecial · Tue Jul 25, 2006 4:48 pm

Lloyd having this dude shit-canned has an equal effect on every team in the conference. You should be thanking Lloyd for taking the heat on this one, a stand up team (conference) player.

Rrrrrrrrrrright. You really think Lloyd was looking out for the conference, huh? You don't find it even a little coincidental that his bitchings came after a loss?

Are you honestly attempting to convince us that Lloyd would've reacted the same way had Michigan won the game?

buckeye_in_sc · Post by **buckeye_in_sc** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 5:14 pm

Boy you Michigan fans are failing to see the one crucial piece...THE SUPERVISOR OF FUCKING OFFICIALS was aware of this issue and the offical worked games prior to even asking to go back to college reffing...

obtuse much? you are the fuckers grasping at straws...you think it really matters to the Buckeyes if the guy is canned or not? No...but you have to admit if DUDE got better reviews after the accident than before what's the problem? I mean LLOYD got his mouth of delaney's dick long enough to complain...even refs with perfect eyesight blow games so by MICHIGAN fans logic we should fire every ref that makes a bad call...right...

hate to say it but I also agree with MGO...if you think LLOYD did this to "take" one for the conference...bwaahhaaa...

ok 39 days until the season starts...can we just get on with on the field smack talk...

i'll start it...michigan blows...the Buckeyes will own you again and your coach is a pussy...

WolverineSteve · Post by **WolverineSteve** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 5:38 pm

MgoBlue-LightSpecial wrote:
Lloyd having this dude shit-canned has an equal effect on every team in the conference. You should be thanking Lloyd for taking the heat on this one, a stand up team (conference) player.
Rrrrrrrrrrright. You really think Lloyd was looking out for the conference, huh? You don't find it even a little coincidental that his bitchings came after a loss?

Are you honestly attempting to convince us that Lloyd would've reacted the same way had Michigan won the game?

I'll re-read the article, but I've yet to see where it mentions that Lloyd complained after a loss, or blamed one-eye for a loss, or says he hates disabled people.

Fuck Ohio State.

WolverineSteve · Post by **WolverineSteve** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 5:47 pm

So I've re-read the article......

It says that in the spring of 2005 a reporter told Carr about cyclops.

So I guess he was pissed that the maize team beat the blue team in the spring game. This was unacceptable to Carr because the maize's victory seriously dampened the conference title hopes.

You scarlet fags are unbelievable.

This is a non-story....at least in how you all have framed it.

Carr did not blame this guy for any loss.

Carr is not anti-disabled people.

This did not happen after a Michigan loss.

Keep spinning bitches. If you want a bunch of gimps running around and deciding your teams fate, that's your business.

Michigan will crush Ohio State this year. Your coach is a Mr. Rogers dressing (look it up Jon) crooked used car saleman piece of shit.

Go Blue!!

buckeye_in_sc · Post by **buckeye_in_sc** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 6:06 pm

^^^^^^^^^^

ok now you get it...i like the last few lines there...

Fuck your maize and blue sissy M Club shit...Tressel owns LLOYD and come November Mr. Rogers will again bitchslap LLOYD back to that shithole of ANN Arbor...

ownership has it's privileges...

FUCK scUM...

PSUFAN · Post by **PSUFAN** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 6:23 pm

No wonder JON hates the Buckeyes!

Sky · Post by **Sky** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 7:56 pm

WolverineSteve wrote:I'll re-read the article, but I've yet to see where it mentions that Lloyd complained after a loss, or blamed one-eye for a loss, or says he hates disabled people.

Fuck Ohio State.

I tell you, I didn't want to start this already because I like some of you UM fans but here we go:

No, dick-fuck, you don't need to re-read the article. There was no part of it that said LC complained about a bad call or that it cost him the game (I was just having fun) but it fits his sorry ass persona. Why is he the only one to complain? How come 10 other coaches didn't say anything and how come Bowden didn't complain during the Orange Bowl?

You wanna know why, cause your coach is a fucking pussy who is lucky to be hanging on to his job. He figures if he can point to anything or anyone who might have contributed to a loss he will do it--as long as the blame doesn't fall on his shoulders.

So take your fucking 4th Qtr choking, no hand-shaking, 7 wins is good enough, can't win the home opener, blames the fans, blames the players, rim jobs Tressel, does just enough to keep his job, no talent coach and go fuck yourself.

And no, the article does not say Lloyd gives Tressel rim jobs so don't waste your time looking for it.

BlindRef · Post by **BlindRef** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 8:48 pm

I totally get the irony, and being an official I think it gives me more credibility when discussing this topic.

More importantly, I am glad this thread was started...it reminded me how much I hate you guys.

Go Blue

WolverineSteve · Post by **WolverineSteve** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 8:53 pm

So the thread title and most of the anti-Carr posts have been blatant lies. Typical.

Carr is highly regarded by peers and conference officials. You don't like him, I think he'll sleep fine at night even though his approval rating among those wading in the shallow end of the gene pool suffers.

You ignorant hillbilly, inbred fuck. You should love Carr. If he is in fact the UM coach your pussy team has had any fucking success against. Fuck, UM fan tried to take up a collection to retain Cooper. Save me the 7-win season crap you douche-nozzle, it wasn't long ago that Fuckeye nation was bemoaning a bowl-less campaign. I was in the Big House the afternoon when OhowIhateOhioState failed to win their 7th game, rendering them bowl in-eligible. So take your 7-5 smack and shove it right up your Cinci cream ale drinking ass! We will be back this year!

Fuck Ohio State

Go Blue!

L45B · Post by **L45B** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 9:20 pm

Sky wrote:So take your fucking 4th Qtr choking, no hand-shaking, 7 wins is good enough, can't win the home opener, blames the fans, blames the players, rim jobs Tressel, does just enough to keep his job, no talent coach and go fuck yourself.

You forgot:

1. Blames injuries
2. Blames the referees (half blind or not)
3. Blames stadium security

Not that I'm complaining, really. I just can't wait for JT to smack his ass straight to the locker room again.

WolverineSteve · Post by **WolverineSteve** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 9:43 pm

Sky is in November form.

WolverineSteve · Post by **WolverineSteve** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 10:33 pm

) but it fits his sorry ass persona.

From Columbus, a bastion of class coaches.
http://michiganzone.blogspot.com/2006/0 ... ories.html

L45B · Post by **L45B** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 11:08 pm

Lets not forget that coaching gem that so proudly walked the halls of all the local Ann Arbor pubs, with pitcher in one hand and bar stool in the other.

Hey Window, how do you like them apples? (sorry, I couldn't quite come up with any video footage)

WolverineSteve · Post by **WolverineSteve** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 12:01 am

^^Solid. Shame the cops didn't have dash cams.

Sky · Post by **Sky** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 4:08 pm

WolverineSteve wrote:So the thread title and most of the anti-Carr posts have been blatant lies. Typical.

Carr is highly regarded by peers and conference officials. You don't like him, I think he'll sleep fine at night even though his approval rating among those wading in the shallow end of the gene pool suffers.

You ignorant hillbilly, inbred fuck. You should love Carr. If he is in fact the UM coach your pussy team has had any fucking success against. Fuck, UM fan tried to take up a collection to retain Cooper. Save me the 7-win season crap you douche-nozzle, it wasn't long ago that Fuckeye nation was bemoaning a bowl-less campaign. I was in the Big House the afternoon when OhowIhateOhioState failed to win their 7th game, rendering them bowl in-eligible. So take your 7-5 smack and shove it right up your Cinci cream ale drinking ass! We will be back this year!

Fuck Ohio State

Go Blue!

Hey Stevie, you know what, this thread was just for enjoyment and to poke fun at Gargamel for calling out the disabled. I didn't see any response to the question of why the other coaches didn't call for this guys head. But really, if you take things this seriously you have a long fall ahead of you.

And yeah, if you want to sit there and harp on what happened 10 years ago, that sounds really great. In fact, I think it is really pertinent to this thread, so thanks. And you are really clever,

OhowIhateOhioState

Did you think of that all by yourself?

Just for my benefit, could you please explain what the highly intelligent comments of douche-nozzle and Cinci cream ale drinking ass mean?

But lets not pretend you are going to be "all that" this year. UM has been riding the Hart/Henne train for too long and where has that gotten you? So enjoy the preseason because it is the only time your team can't embarass itself.

indyfrisco · Post by **indyfrisco** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 4:22 pm

Holy shit. My softball buds just sent an email asking where we can score some Little Kings for tonight's game and then I read this...

Sky wrote:...douche-nozzle and Cinci cream ale ...

So, you talking about Little Kings?