Hey Michigan fan

[Vito Corleone]

I've been meaning to ask you guys. What would you say is the secret behind your success this year. No one including you guys expected this kind of season from a Lloyd Carr team. Has there been some change in the program that put you in this position or is it just your year?

When Texas made their turnaround it happened when we got rid of our DC and oline coach. But even then it took our new hires Robinson Tomey and McWhorter making big changes to how we handled off season conditioning and practices.

Anyway is there anything you can point to?

[BlindRef]

Michigan changed both coordinators.

While I don't think the OC has made much of a difference there is no doubt in my mind that Ron English's defense has.

Michigan is going to have a very hard time keeping him as DC, the Bears offered him the DB coaches job last year and he took it, just to be wooed back by Michigan with the DC job.

Other than that...Michigan had 1 really bad year and a bunch of decent years (including 2 straight Rose Bowl appearences) We are far from a USC in the 90's collapse, a OU before Stoops collapse, a John Cooper late 90's collapse...etc.

[Shoalzie]

Ron English has been huge for this team...they've been talented on defense but under-achieved. At least half of their starters will play on Sundays and their defensive line is as good as Michigan has had in years. Also a healthy Mike Hart has been a boost to the offense. I worried about the loss of Avant and Edwards from two years ago but Michigan is a factory for receivers...Manningham showed flashes last year but this year, he's become the big play guy at the receiver spot. I had this team pegged for 2 or 3 losses at least but those three things have been a huge difference and I'm confident that this team can go down to Columbus and win a monster game against the sweater vest and his boys.

[WolverineSteve]

Vito,

Not trying to be a prick but....were you around during the off-season? I realize you were wollowing in the post MNC glory, but most of the coaching changes at UM were discussed in here.

1. Hermann (DC) got whacked/resigned to take another position. This change was overdue as he consistently under achieved with quality talent. Michigan has always had top-notch talent. Hermans schemes were to complex for the 18-21 year olds. English has turned the dogs loose.

2. DeBord came back as OC. He was the OC in the NC year of 97. His offense is a bit boring, relying on protecting the ball, T.O.P., runninig to set up the pass, and field position. He is a throwback to the days of Bo. He is running the 97 offense, with upgrades at most positions. Henne, Hart, Manningham, and Arrington are all better than those who played the skill spots in 97. The new zone blocking scheme in the running game suits Hart's style.

3. UM went 7-5 last year. The two seasons previous they went to the Rose Bowl, most recently losing to your boys on a late FG. Not exactly shitting the bed, I might say. In each of their 5 losses they held leads in the 4th quarter. Blowing these leads led to the departure of Hermann, and a renewed commitement to conditioning. This team will not wilt late in games.

When you say that noone expected this out of a Lloyd Carr team...what the fuck are you talking about. Last time I checked he has a handfull more conference titles than Mack Brown, and he won a NC 8 years befor Mack did. So really what do you mean? Look at his career numbers, he's no slouch. He owned OSU when Coop was there, and Coop had some great teams, he's had a tough time with Tressell, but things in rivalries are cyclical. You remember when OU owned your asses don't you?

You speak like UM was a shit program. Fuck we fell out of the top 25 for the first time in my memory last year. Most UM fans I know didn't panic, I guess I don't understand why you did.

Most wins ever.
Best win percentage ever.

Don't worry about Michigan Football, it's in capable hands.

[Vito Corleone]

Don't worry about Michigan Football, it's in capable hands.

The last part was the reason for the whole thread. No one has thought for a second in this century that Michigan was in capable hands. I could go back to last years bowl game against Nebraska and pull some of your posts to prove that you didn't think so either.

I never said Michigan had fallen off the map, I said that no expected this kind of turnaround from them. Lets also keep in mind that Michigan's best win to date is against a overrated Notre Dame team. So please don't act like you have been expecting this to happen because the fact is no one but the most myopic Michigan fan expected you guys to challenge for the MNC this year. Case in point, your preseason ranking. And please don't bring up two Rose bowl appearances because you did lose both.

And to answer your other question, no I didn't follow Michigan's off season moves simply because you went to the Alamo bowl and lost, not a lot of drama normally comes from that kind of ending unless the head coach gets axed.

Who knows, if you beat tOSU and we win the Big 12 you might get a shot at playing Texas again. Highly unlikely but it is still a possibility.

[indyfrisco]

Michigan has 1 win against a quality opponent and it was on the road and it was a beatdown.

They only have 2 quality oponents on their schedule this year as it turns out. If they win @ OSU, I will be impressed with this team. Otherwise, they are just an above average team.

And before you UM honks try to slam A&M, I'll be the first to say we are an average team with a shit schedule. Of course, we have the OU, NU then t.u. gauntlet ahead. If we make it through all 3, which I doubt, we will deserve some accolades. Realistically, I see us going 1-2 down the stretch and playing in the Alamo or Holiday.

[Killian]

Not to nit pick, Steve, but UofM didn't have a 4th quarter lead against ND last year.

I would say OSU is as suspect as UofM right now. They have one quality win over an overrated opponet in Texas.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

Michigan
ND
Texas
UF
OSU
FSU
Auburn
LSU
Tennessee
USC
Miami
OU

I may be missing a couple, but I consider these to pretty much be the elite teams in CF.

This means, that even after the occasional 7-5, or even .500 season, it should come as a surprise to no one to see any of 'em rebound in a couple years, or even the following year, and get to the MNC game. Or at least make a strong run at the title game. These teams have the history/tradition/money/resources/facilities/booster support/talent/coaching, etc., to be there every year. Whether they actually follow through is another story, but they all have what it takes.

[Shoalzie]

Michigan has 1 win against a quality opponent and it was on the road and it was a beatdown.

They only have 2 quality oponents on their schedule this year as it turns out. If they win @ OSU, I will be impressed with this team. Otherwise, they are just an above average team.

And before you UM honks try to slam A&M, I'll be the first to say we are an average team with a shit schedule. Of course, we have the OU, NU then t.u. gauntlet ahead. If we make it through all 3, which I doubt, we will deserve some accolades. Realistically, I see us going 1-2 down the stretch and playing in the Alamo or Holiday.

I've criticized Michigan's non-conference schedule when you see Ohio State play the likes of Texas. Notre Dame is a traditional rival...seeing them on the schedule isn't exactly edgy when they've been playing them for years. What happened to playing Florida State? I know that was a while back and Casey Weldon and Amp Lee came into the Big House and bitch-slapped the Wolverines...I just want to see someone other than a MAC school coming to Big House or see Michigan go back on the road and play a Pac-10 school. They defintely fall under the category of having a creampuff non-conference slate.

As for rest of the schedule...Michigan doesn't pick which Big Ten opponents they face each year, that's pre-determined and they always have Michigan State and Ohio State on the docket each year and the strength of the conference is out Michigan's control. Michigan isn't responsible for the strength of the Big Ten...all they can control is putting out the best team they can field.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

Indy,

Not to keep up the nit picking, but it seems pretty clear to me they have three quality opponents:

ND
Wisconsin
Ohio St

All three combined have just two losses, and all are respectably ranked.

[Vito Corleone]

I really don't have any problem with Michigan's schedule it is pretty much on par with what Texas played this year the big difference is Texas already has played and lost to tOSU while Michigan won't get that opportunity to do that til the end of the year. And for Van let me put this in; I don't care about the cream puffs on the schedule cause everyone has them, I only care about the quality opponents.

[Harvdog]

Not to nit pick, Steve, but UofM didn't have a 4th quarter lead against ND last year.

I would say OSU is as suspect as UofM right now. They have one quality win over an overrated opponet in Texas.

You call Texas overrated???? ND is a fucking joke. You needed a miracle play to beat a team that just fired their coach after they got pimped slapped by Indiana. You needed another miracle against UCLA. UCLA sucks balls this year. You also needed a late TD to get past GT. Your next 3 games are against UNC (1-7), Air Force (3-4), and Army (3-6). The fact that ND is rated in the Top 15 is a joke in itself.

You will finish 10-2. 6 wins against a bunch of patsies.

[King Crimson]

take out the series with tOSU and who does Texas brag about in their OOC schedule? the last two years don't make you arbiters of schedule strength. you guys still try and rationalize playing lame former SWC schools as "a traditional rivalry". but, no one cares....just like they didn't care in the SWC. it was a regional conference that produced ZERO national champs from 1970-1996.

[Harvdog]

take out the series with tOSU and who does Texas brag about in their OOC schedule? the last two years don't make you arbiters of schedule strength. you guys still try and rationalize playing lame former SWC schools as "a traditional rivalry". but, no one cares....just like they didn't care in the SWC. it was a regional conference that produced ZERO national champs from 1970-1996.

and OU schedules powerhouses? Middle Tennessee State and UAB? I know that Washington was once a good team but not this year. Oregon? North Texas, Tulsa, Utah State and Miami next year. OU also has played UCLA, Central Florida, UTEP, TCU, U of H and Rice in the last 5 years. Funny, we have either played those teams or have a schedule to play them in the next few years.

Playing lame schools from the old SWC seems to be the standard for OU as well. You have had Rice, TCU and U of H on your schedule. the difference is there is a history between the schools and Texas. If the Big 12 broke up and OU and NU were in different conferences, would it be lame to play them? OSU?

[King Crimson]

convenient you leave out Alabama, Notre Dame harv. those would be "classic games" for you guys.... and denigrating UCLA and even Fresno State.....epic matchups for Mack.

the difference is we call the the SWC old timers patsies while you guys think it's like a tough deal.

[Vito Corleone]

convenient you leave out Alabama, Notre Dame harv. those would be "classic games" for you guys.... and denigrating UCLA and even Fresno State.....epic matchups for Mack.

the difference is we call the the SWC old timers patsies while you guys think it's like a tough deal.

Lets see you play patsey TCU last year didn't you? You play North Texas, same as us. I don't see any difference in who blOwU schedules for OOC games vs who Texas schedules.

The one difference between Texas and blOwU is that those teams in the old SWC hate Texas and it is their season if they beat us. (see Arkansas)

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

Things are not going well for vito in this thread.

Sin,

objective reasoning

[Vito Corleone]

Lets see you play patsey TCU last year didn't you?

You do realize that TCU finished 12-1 and #11 in the AP poll last year, right?

I mean, I realize you were a little distracted, but did you and Harv watch any college football that didn't involve UT last year?

You do realize it was King Crimson that called the old SWC teams patsies don't you or maybe you don't read too well.

BTW who did TCU lose to that year? Oh yea, SMU. Kinda weird isn't it. You lose to old SWC school who then loses the very next week to old SWC school.

Game Set Match.

BTW mgo, your team still sucks so go find your 3rd tier coach and let Mommie and Daddy talk.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

Is it safe you assume you play the role of "Mommy" since you're getting beat on in this thread?

[Vito Corleone]

Is it safe you assume you play the role of "Mommy" since you're getting beat on in this thread?

Mommie, Daddy, it makes no difference, you are still playing the part of little child that is not supposed to be here.

Now run along before big momma puts her big bunion up your ass.

[Vito Corleone]

You do realize that TCU finished 12-1 and #11 in the AP poll last year, right?

I mean, I realize you were a little distracted, but did you and Harv watch any college football that didn't involve UT last year?

You do realize it was King Crimson that called the old SWC teams patsies don't you or maybe you don't read too well.

You don't get it both ways, Vito. OU played a very good TCU team and you and Harv are acting like it's the equivalent of you guys scheduling North Texas.

And where did I say that TCU was equal to North Texas? If I were to compare TCU to any other old SWC (non Big 12 ) school it would be Arkansas. Lets not forget you schedule UNT the same as we do, and both do it for the same reason, to give us more exposure to Alumni and recruits in DFW. That is the same reason both of us schedule Rice and U of H.

The word Patsy was first used to describe the old SWC schools in general by King Crimson not me.

Don't act like blOwU is going out of their way to schedule top 10 teams and Texas isn't.

[Harvdog]

Harv's even gone so far as to claim that OU played Rice sometime in the last five years to bolster his point.

My bad. OU played Rice in 2000. It had to be those games against Indiana State and Arkansas State that had me confused. :wink:

KC also said that you played the likes of ND in the last 5 years and that is false. It was 1999 that OU last lost to ND.

I am not criticizing Michigan at all. It was Killian who called Texas overrated after playing their laughable schedule. I simply chose to defend my team.

[Harvdog]

Harv's even gone so far as to claim that OU played Rice sometime in the last five years to bolster his point.

My bad. OU played Rice in 2000. It had to be those games against Indiana State and Arkansas State that had me confused. :wink:

KC also said that you played the likes of ND in the last 5 years and that is false. It was 1999 that OU last lost to ND.

I am not criticizing Michigan at all. It was Killian who called Texas overrated after playing their laughable schedule. I simply chose to defend my team.

Honestly?

I'm bored at work and looking for something to get riled up about. :D

Sweet. I understand. I have a wife that is 7 months pregnant who is never wrong. So any chance I get to have a spirited debate I am game. Atleast there are no raging hormones.

[Vito Corleone]

Yea all the raging hormones left this forum when M2 got banned.

[M Club]

michigan.

[Shoalzie]

michigan.

[SuperFan Voice]Go Blue[/SuperFan Voice]

[Killian]

You call Texas overrated???? ND is a fucking joke. You needed a miracle play to beat a team that just fired their coach after they got pimped slapped by Indiana. You needed another miracle against UCLA. UCLA sucks balls this year. You also needed a late TD to get past GT. Your next 3 games are against UNC (1-7), Air Force (3-4), and Army (3-6). The fact that ND is rated in the Top 15 is a joke in itself.

You will finish 10-2. 6 wins against a bunch of patsies.

I called Texas overrated because Vito likes to make broad, sweeping statements about teams that he doesn't know too much about, or that compare (schedule and result wise) to his own team.

As to your point about MSU, yes all of what you said is true. Most would argue that they got pimped slapped by Indiana because of their annual melt down, this year at the hands of ND instead of UofM or OSU. ND did have a miracle come back. Similar to Texas against Texas Tech.

UCLA may suck balls, but their defense is very good. So yes, a miracle play was needed. Similar to a miracle fumble needed by Texas to beat Nebraska.

Let's look at the Longhorn's schedule, shall we?

North Texas
Ohio State
Rice
Iowa State
Sam Houston State
Oklahoma
Baylor
Nebraska
Texas Tech
Oklahoma State
Kansas State
Texas A&M

You said ND had 6 patsies. It looks to me that Texas has at least 6 as well (North Texas, Rice, Iowa State, Sam Houston State, Baylor and Kansas State)

ND and Texas both got humiliated at home by one of the top 2 teams in the country.

Sounds pretty similar to me.

[Vito Corleone]

How did Texas have a miracle comeback against Taco Tech? Texas was down by 10 pts at the half, Texas had the lead going into the 4th quarter. Tech scored zero points in the 2nd half.

The taco tech game was a matter of one team sleep walking in the 1st half, or should I say one team's secondary sleep walking in the 1st half.

Yes, I would agree that Texas needed a miracle play to beat Nebraska, but that was in their house and last I checked they were a damn tough team to beat in Lincolin. There is a huge difference between Nebraska and MSU. If I make huge sweeping statements about ND, maybe it is because

1. Your oline sucks
2. You have little to no running game
3. Your defense is still too slow

I've taken enough dumps in my life to know shit when I see it. And that is exactly what comes to mind when I see ND.

As for schedule, overall I have no problem with it, however you haven't beaten a good team yet, I think it is respectable enough at this point. But if you lose to USC don't expect a lot of respect because you will have beaten 2 marginal teams (tech and UCLA) and zero good teams.

I do happen to agree with you that Texas hasn't beaten squat either, that is why they probably won't get into the BCS championship game.

I have no problem if a one loss SEC school passes Texas, I do have a problem if ND or a Big least school does however.

[Killian]

I know, we've had this discussion before. ND hasn't beaten anyone good in two years. They don't get credit for anyone last year because they all went in the tank (Pitt, UofM, Purdue, etc.) and this year (GaTech, PSU, MSU, UCLA).

Playing at Nebraska under Callahan is much different than playing at Nebraska under Osborne or even Solich. I would say it's similar to playing Michigan State before their annual meltdown.

As for your point abouts about ND:

1 - Agree
2 - is a result of point 1.
3 - Wrong. ND's defense appears to be slow because they aren't an agressive, attacking team thanks to their shit-tascular DC, Rick Minter. 40-time/speed wise, they are very quick.

Taco was up 21-0 and Texas had to fight their way back. Similar to how ND fought back against MSU, seeing as how MSU didn't score any points in the 4th quarter (and I think only 10 in the second half).

My point in all of this is, a fan of any team calling someone overrated (except for UofM and OSU) is that it can very easily be flipped on them.

[Van]

Depends on USC's record going into and following the ND game. If USC has only one loss going into the ND game and ND beats USC in the Coliseum to snap the nation's longest home winning streak then ND will have a better "Quality Win" than anything Texas managed this year.

ND will've also played a tougher schedule than Texas.

In that scenario I'd take a one loss ND team over a one loss Texas team, no problem.

[M Club]

umich.